Best Team in Europe is a Riddle

by anotherworldofpain Wed Jun 27, 2012 6:28 am

First topic message reminder :

So WAL sweep the 6N convincingly and take the grandslam even with more away than home games against the traditional top contenders.

Due to foible of the IRB Ranking they were rank behind ENG still at the end of this.

They briefly go to 4th after they lose less to AUS than ENG lose to SA.

Then next week ENG draw in SA against weakened SA team and FRA pick up the big win too.

Suddenly WAL now rank 6 behind ENG and FRA but my own feeling is if you have to play one other 6N team and want the win you don't pick to face WAL!

What is the answer to the riddle? Who has the "bragging right" as BEST TEAM OF EUROPE?

by Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler Wed Jun 27, 2012 12:57 pm

Shifty wrote:
Rory_Gallagher wrote:Eh Shifty, although your arrogance is amusing, I would climb down from that horse of yours there. Scotland beat an Australian side not that much weaker than the one Wales played (who they couldn't beat with three chances). Not to mention the fact they have the best record of any of us against the SH teams in recent years.

Which included 6 new caps, the only real difference between the Full Australian team and the one Wales faced was they were missing a fly half who is not on form at all and a their back 3.

Besides there is no way you can say Scotland are better than Wales they have only beaten us once in the last 10 games.

According the the western mail:

the Wallabies have been hit by a string of injuries to key men, with James O’Connor, Kurtley Beale, Quade Cooper and skipper James Horwell missing.

The hosts have also had just about the worst possible preparation, having been handed a ludicrous schedule of two Tests in five days. With just a couple of training sessions to gel together a side that shows no fewer than nine changes and with the pressure mounting on under-fire Kiwi coach Deans.

By way of comparison, Wales’ preparation has been pretty spot on.

by Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler Wed Jun 27, 2012 12:57 pm

Shifty wrote:
Rory_Gallagher wrote:Good thing I never said that Scotland (or Ireland, England or any other 6 nations side) are better than Wales then, isn't it.

Don't you worry, you can feel secure that Wales are still the best NH team.

You insinuated it by saying australia were beaten by Scotland and not Wales, but the paper, scissors, rock theory never really works in rugby. Head to head results are all that matter.

So you admit that Wales did worse in the world cup than South Africa?

by kiakahaaotearoa Wed Jun 27, 2012 12:58 pm

Never a truer word spoken Shifty. Which is really what the OP is asking. How can the best team in Europe fail to win against the big 3 when the other NH teams can? Not often mind but certainly more than 0.

by Rory_Gallagher Wed Jun 27, 2012 1:00 pm

Shifty wrote:
Rory_Gallagher wrote:Good thing I never said that Scotland (or Ireland, England or any other 6 nations side) are better than Wales then, isn't it.

Don't you worry, you can feel secure that Wales are still the best NH team.

You insinuated it by saying australia were beaten by Scotland and not Wales, but the paper, scissors, rock theory never really works in rugby. Head to head results are all that matter.

Nope I didn't actually mister paranoid, but I thought I would give you a few facts after you claimed that Scotland only beat second string sides. You completely talk down Scotland and then whinge when you think I might be saying Wales aren't the best team.

"Head to head results are all that matter" yet you undermine Scotland beating Australia, while Wales lose 5 times in a row to them. picard

by Rory_Gallagher Wed Jun 27, 2012 1:01 pm

Which I'm not saying btw. Wales are clearly the best NH team since they won the grand slam.

by AsLongAsBut100ofUs Wed Jun 27, 2012 1:05 pm

Shifty wrote:
Rory_Gallagher wrote:Good thing I never said that Scotland (or Ireland, England or any other 6 nations side) are better than Wales then, isn't it.

Don't you worry, you can feel secure that Wales are still the best NH team.

You insinuated it by saying australia were beaten by Scotland and not Wales, but the paper, scissors, rock theory never really works in rugby. Head to head results are all that matter.

No according to you, Shifty!

Shifty wrote:even a Scottish team is going to get "lucky" against a Welsh team at some point, though I will point out that any Rabo direct team should of beaten that Ospreys team we put out. As usual Scottish teams can only beat the opposition when they play their second string players, and then only just scrape a win!

Just 'got lucky' apparently, but "weakened side" is always a reliable excuse - well done.

Shifty wrote:Head to head results are all that matter.

Glasgow Warriors 28 - 17 Ospreys
Ospreys 20 - 26 Glasgow Warriors

Yup, you are right after all

by Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler Wed Jun 27, 2012 1:07 pm

Rory_Gallagher wrote:Which I'm not saying btw. Wales are clearly the best NH team since they won the grand slam.

But they had to rely on Wayne Barnes to do that

by LordDowlais Wed Jun 27, 2012 1:08 pm

Personally I do not think there is much difference between Wales, Ireland, England and France, they are all at about the same level and just behind the big three from the southern hemisphere.

by Rory_Gallagher Wed Jun 27, 2012 1:08 pm

AsLongAsBut100ofUs wrote:
Shifty wrote:
Rory_Gallagher wrote:Good thing I never said that Scotland (or Ireland, England or any other 6 nations side) are better than Wales then, isn't it.

Don't you worry, you can feel secure that Wales are still the best NH team.

You insinuated it by saying australia were beaten by Scotland and not Wales, but the paper, scissors, rock theory never really works in rugby. Head to head results are all that matter.
No according to you, Shifty!

What do ya know, Shifty shifts the argument to when it suits himself.

by Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler Wed Jun 27, 2012 1:12 pm

LordDowlais wrote:Personally I do not think there is much difference between Wales, ~~Ireland~~, England and ~~France~~, they are all at about the same level and just behind the big three from the southern hemisphere.

I dunno about France, they look in a bit of a mess and Im sorry but Im gonna call "head to head" on this and point out that 60-0 is the only stinking Ireland have taken recently. Yes potentially they are better, but frankly they have been poor recently.
This may change quickly, but right now I find it insulting to England and Wales to be lumped in with the class clowns.

by kiakahaaotearoa Wed Jun 27, 2012 1:16 pm

Class clowns who made the RWC final PSW. Maybe Wales and England would put on oversized shoes and red noses to be in that position.

I do agree though they were hugely disappointing in the 6N. The best draw and only looked convincing against the bottom teams.

by Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler Wed Jun 27, 2012 1:20 pm

kiakahaaotearoa wrote:Class clowns who made the RWC final PSW. Maybe Wales and England would put on oversized shoes and red noses to be in that position.

By Class Clowns I meant Ireland, who Tommy Bowe said were in danger of being made a joke of in New Zealand if they didnt buck their ideas up, prior to the 3rd test.

by kiakahaaotearoa Wed Jun 27, 2012 1:26 pm

Well given England dominated the Ireland scum, you may well get away with that comment. But it took a while to get a win over them.

by Shifty Wed Jun 27, 2012 1:35 pm

AsLongAsBut100ofUs wrote:Glasgow Warriors 28 - 17 Ospreys
Ospreys 20 - 26 Glasgow Warriors

Yup, you are right after all

Clearly the Scottish comment was a tongue in cheek joke.

For some reason Glasgow have a nasty habbit of beating the Ospreys. Didnt you put 30 odd points past us at home the season before too? You right though Glasgow are better than the Ospreys because we can't beat you, and neither can we beat the Scarlets! mad

Rory_Gallagher wrote:Which I'm not saying btw. Wales are clearly the best NH team since they won the grand slam.

you could of just said that at the start and saved the argument! Whistle

by Rory_Gallagher Wed Jun 27, 2012 1:38 pm

by Shifty Wed Jun 27, 2012 1:42 pm

Rory_Gallagher wrote:

How about we skip the rest of the debate and go to the pub? picard

by anotherworldofpain Wed Jun 27, 2012 4:09 pm

mystiroakey wrote:AWOP lols , you do it again Jak sie masz? you like the sex?.. can we just have another character please. this one is so 2006 pal.

No one say jak sie masz Smile

only in the phrase book.

by emack2 Thu Jun 28, 2012 8:21 pm

The 3Ns is gone NOW the 4NS,and it is only PASSE in RWC years if your a Bok Coach hiding his players.THAT encourages the other recepients to follow like sheep.IT sickens me to hear of weakened sides Touring or playing deliberately.There is no such thing as a TEST MATCH that doesn`t MATTER!!!!! player management should occur in Domestic not the International arena.
Attrition will take care of it during the year anyway as to IRB ratings being used to seed teams. The AI`s could in theory cost the BIG 3 there seedings if the get to casual with team selection.It implies any old team will do for a NH Tour and THAT is being massively DIRESPECTFULto the NH.

by beshocked Fri Jun 29, 2012 4:33 am

Shifty wrote:
Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler wrote:leinster were beaten by the Ospreys 3 times this season, 2 of those games in Dublin.

I finished your sentence for you.

Leinster were beaten by Ospreys 3 times in the Pro12 but in the HC Ospreys were beaten by Saracens twice (one at Liberty), knocking them out. Saracens were beaten by Clermont at Vicarage Road in the HC quarter final. Clermont were beaten by Leinster in the HC semi. Leinster - Champions of Europe after beating Ulster in the final.

Ospreys < Saracens < Clermont < Leinster = Champions of Europe.

by offload Sat Jun 30, 2012 3:57 am

The best team in Europe may be a riddle, but the worst poster on 606v2 is plain for all to see.

by drsambo1928 Sat Jun 30, 2012 11:20 am

I guess you have to go for Wales not just because they won the 6 nations but because they achieved the grandslam. Although it is not that easy to distinguish and someone will probably come along and prove me wrong.

by Guest Sat Jun 30, 2012 1:00 pm

Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler wrote:leinster

Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler wrote:
ScarletSpiderman wrote:
fa0019 wrote:Who is the best team in the SH???

NZ are the RWC champs
AUS are the 3N champs
and SA have the best SR teams in this years competition.

I guess that would make it SA as they also have the JWC champs.

England came away with a creditable drawn series then (last game wins rule)

Two genuinely, funny posts clap

by Shifty Tue Jul 03, 2012 5:45 pm

drsambo1928 wrote:I guess you have to go for Wales not just because they won the 6 nations but because they achieved the grandslam. Although it is not that easy to distinguish and someone will probably come along and prove me wrong.

Wales won a grand slam that makes us the bets European side, including wins in Dublin and Twickenham, though the margins between the top 4, France, Ireland, England and Wales are very small at the moment. Though I think Ireland may be starting to slide now. Standards seem to be dropping in terms of international results.

by mowgli Tue Jul 03, 2012 6:29 pm

Why is this even up for debate, Wales have won 2 Slams in the last 4 years and reached the semi of the RWC....of course England are the best side in Europe.

by R!skysports Wed Jul 04, 2012 5:09 am

Shifty wrote:
Rory_Gallagher wrote:Eh Shifty, although your arrogance is amusing, I would climb down from that horse of yours there. Scotland beat an Australian side not that much weaker than the one Wales played (who they couldn't beat with three chances). Not to mention the fact they have the best record of any of us against the SH teams in recent years.

Which included 6 new caps, the only real difference between the Full Australian team and the one Wales faced was they were missing a fly half who is not on form at all and a their back 3.

Besides there is no way you can say Scotland are better than Wales they have only beaten us once in the last 10 games.

And what people tend to forget is Scotland had 3 new caps and several with one or two - easy to look at one stat and make up the rest of the story

Scotland won and even after trying 50 times in 3 weeks, some teams can not do so -

We can also point out that Wales can only beat Scotland when we go to 13 men - but that would not be fair (or accurate, but fun) kiss

But is reality, I would say Wales are the best team in the NH just now - but only by a knats curley one

by englandglory4ever Wed Jul 04, 2012 7:42 am

OP says "So WAL sweep the 6N convincingly and take the grandslam ...."

The only "sweeping' thing about Wales is the statement made by the OP. The truth is that Wales squeaked past England and were only a few minutes away from losing that match IMO. Sure they won it that's true but it certainly was not 'convincing'. NZ thrashing a hapless Ireland 60 - 0 is convincing.

by ScarletSpiderman Wed Jul 04, 2012 7:45 am

englandglory4ever wrote:OP says "So WAL sweep the 6N convincingly and take the grandslam ...."

The only "sweeping' thing about Wales is the statement made by the OP. The truth is that Wales squeaked past England and were only a few minutes away from losing that match IMO. Sure they won it that's true but it certainly was not 'convincing'. NZ thrashing a hapless Ireland 60 - 0 is convincing.

Drawing is the word you are looking for, and that would have required a conversion too.

by englandglory4ever Wed Jul 04, 2012 7:51 am

"Drawing is the word you are looking for, and that would have required a conversion too."

Wrong! Winning is the word. What I'm talking about is the silly sloppy mistake made by Lawes having just come on when he gifted the ball to the welsh centre. I bet he won't do that again.

by ScarletSpiderman Wed Jul 04, 2012 7:53 am

englandglory4ever wrote:"Drawing is the word you are looking for, and that would have required a conversion too."

Wrong! Winning is the word. What I'm talking about is the silly sloppy mistake made by Lawes having just come on when he gifted the ball to the welsh centre. I bet he won't do that again.

Again DRAWING!!!

by englandglory4ever Wed Jul 04, 2012 7:56 am

Nope still WINNING. We wouldn't have required the conversion.

by ScarletSpiderman Wed Jul 04, 2012 8:51 am

BBC Website - http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/17141687 wrote:Williams was not finished. Lawes crashed into three Welsh tacklers on halfway but the centre, on for an injured and ineffectual Jamie Roberts, ripped the ball from English hands, turned and span away.

With a kick through he was free, gathering a kind bounce to dive over the try-line as his team-mates celebrated in his wake. Halfpenny added the extras and the Triple Crown was within their grasp.

England needed a converted try to save the game. They went right, then left, and with time up a long mis-pass found Strettle sprinting for the right-hand corner.

Halfpenny and Davies threw themselves at man and ball with North also playing a hand; the crowd celebrated and it went to the television match official for a heart-stopping age until the fateful decision came: no try.

So if Williams had not stripped Lawes, and scored a cracking try, and then the video ref did award England the try yes England would have won. That said if the Welsh team had all come down with bird flu and Gatland had called up our under 15s side instead England would have won by more.

And I thought it was us Welsh who were the ones who were meant to be living in the land of If, But, and Or.

by overbythere Wed Jul 04, 2012 8:55 am

englandglory4ever wrote:"Drawing is the word you are looking for, and that would have required a conversion too."

Wrong! Winning is the word. What I'm talking about is the silly sloppy mistake made by Lawes having just come on when he gifted the ball to the welsh centre. I bet he won't do that again.

You could apply the same logic to the chance Scott Williams squandered when he ignored an overlap that would have seen Halfpenny walk it over from about 5 meters out. Wales could have been 2 scores clear. I bet he won’t be doing that again either. That's just the way it goes.

One way of looking at it is that to his credit, Williams ripped the ball away from Lawes. Either way he still had quite a bit to do to get the try.

I do agree with you on the sentiment that “WAL sweep the 6N convincingly and take the grandslam ....” though. I think the OP’s memory is a bit hazy.

by ScarletSpiderman Wed Jul 04, 2012 8:57 am

overbythere wrote:You could apply the same logic to the chance Scott Williams squandered when he ignored an overlap that would have seen Halfpenny walk it over from about 5 meters out. Wales could have been 2 scores clear. I bet he won’t be doing that again either.

Sadly I have seen him do that a few times before and after in a Scarlets jersey.

by overbythere Wed Jul 04, 2012 9:08 am

Sadly I have seen him do that a few times before and after in a Scarlets jersey.[/quote]

So we drop him for Beck against OZ and he does the same thing! Perhaps it's one of those annoying 'Welsh traits'. Maybe ignoring the overlap is the new throwing an intercept.

by ScarletSpiderman Wed Jul 04, 2012 9:13 am

overbythere - I think it tends to be a youngster breaking into the Welsh squad wanting to prove they can beat the world on their own thing. Foxy was really bad for it when he was starting out with the Welsh squad, but has gotten over it now, so I assume that Williams, Beck and whoever the next kid to do it (Harry Robinson?) will eventually get over it too.

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