London Welsh D Day ‎: and the mounting calls for litigation

by Portnoy Fri Jun 29, 2012 9:03 am

First topic message reminder :

London Welsh Rugby club will find out later today if they have been successful in their appeal to be accepted for promotion to Rugby's top flight.
Read more: http://www.oxford.vitalfootball.co.uk/article.asp?a=285712#ixzz1zAMb2srh

ed additional source http://www.espnscrum.com/scrum/rugby/story/166295.html

If they lose - legal action is threatened

Meanwhile at the Falcons:
Newcastle threaten legal action if London Welsh win promotion appeal (sic)
http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2012/jun/27/newcastle-london-welsh-premiership-rugby?newsfeed=true

If they (LW) win - legal action is threatened

Meanwhile the rest of the spectre of legal action looms over RFU payments
http://www.espnscrum.com/scrum/rugby/story/166295.html

Happy days.

by QuickBall Fri Jun 29, 2012 4:00 pm

nice looking website they have. I suspect an update once they've confirmed their promotion.

by **Ozzy3213** Fri Jun 29, 2012 4:02 pm

Just seen this tweeted...

Nick Heath ‏@rugbymedia
Lon Welsh tell me that they've not confirmed any time for a presser this arvo. @MikeBovill saying a ruling decision has been reached though.

Mike Bovill works at TalkSPORT so not sure how reliable his information on rugby matters would be. Wink

by wales606 Fri Jun 29, 2012 5:45 pm

They've won

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/18651050

by Looseheaded Fri Jun 29, 2012 5:45 pm

Welsh are going up, and whilst I'm so happy about the decision, I will miss Old Deer Park, though hopefully it'll remain key to the club

by wales606 Fri Jun 29, 2012 5:46 pm

London Welsh win Premiership promotion, Newcastle relegated

London Welsh will play in the Aviva Premiership after winning their appeal against a Rugby Football Union ruling barring them from England's top flight.

Last month, an independent audit commissioned by the RFU found the Exiles has not achieved the criteria for entry to the top flight.

Newcastle Falcons will now be relegated to the Championship as a result, after they finished bottom of the table last season.

by HammerofThunor Fri Jun 29, 2012 5:51 pm

I'd like to see the details of this. Really shafted Newcastle leaving so late but Richards did well bringing Quins up from the Championship so...

by glamorganalun Fri Jun 29, 2012 5:59 pm

Great news for Lyn Jones taking his team to the English top league, it will be interesting to see what players he will pull in e.g., the orange one and other Ospreys cast off's.

by HammerofThunor Fri Jun 29, 2012 6:00 pm

I'm sure it was on the BBC Union home page but doesn't seem to be there now. Nor is anything on the London Welsh website

by Portnoy Fri Jun 29, 2012 6:03 pm

http://www.espnscrum.com/premiership-2012-13/rugby/story/166311.html

a confirmation

by **Notch** Fri Jun 29, 2012 6:05 pm

Great news

by HammerofThunor Fri Jun 29, 2012 6:06 pm

It depends. They could have got that off the BBC. Still nothing on the London Welsh, RFU or Premiership websites. Also can't find the BBC article without following the link

by Swperb Fri Jun 29, 2012 6:09 pm

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/rugbyunion/club/9365484/London-Welsh-to-join-Aviva-Premiership-after-winning-appeal-against-decision-to-deny-them-promotion.html

by Portnoy Fri Jun 29, 2012 6:13 pm

Notch wrote:Great news

Can you justify that comment Notch?

Why?

by Geordie Fri Jun 29, 2012 6:19 pm

Well one season....we'll be back up, Welsh will be relegated. Job done.

We deserve it by all means but im still seriously $£%%"^%^$ off!!!!

by Guest Fri Jun 29, 2012 6:33 pm

A couple of words of caution.

Firstly, I don't think this is official yet (as at 18:31)

secondly, its my understanding that this isn't an appeal against the RFU's decision itself, but rather against the result of the audit than caused the PGB to recommend the RFU not promote LW. There could still be grounds got LW to stay in the championship.

by Guest Fri Jun 29, 2012 6:34 pm

Has there actually been any official confirmation from London Welsh, Newcastle or the RFU?

Will reserve full judgement until I read that but I really hope the reports out are true. It's been handled oh so badly though, it's not fair on either club involved.

by Geordie Fri Jun 29, 2012 6:34 pm

No mate its confirmed...we're down.

by HammerofThunor Fri Jun 29, 2012 6:37 pm

It is strange that London Welsh haven't made a statement yet and that the BBC have taken down the links to their article. The others don't give any details and don't have any quotes say Welsh are up. It may well have just leaked early but it could also be a hoax.

Nothing on Falcons, Welsh, RFU or Premiership yet.

GeordieFalcon, how do you know?

by Guest Fri Jun 29, 2012 6:37 pm

rugbydreamer wrote:Has there actually been any official confirmation from London Welsh, Newcastle or the RFU?

Will reserve full judgement until I read that but I really hope the reports out are true. It's been handled oh so badly though, it's not fair on either club involved.

Not that I can find

by Geordie Fri Jun 29, 2012 6:38 pm

Just been announced on the BBC North east News...we have been relegated

by **Notch** Fri Jun 29, 2012 6:40 pm

Portnoy wrote:
Notch wrote:Great news
Can you justify that comment Notch?

Why?

Why should I have to justify it? It's great news that a club who have won the second tier competition in England will benefit from that and get to play in the first tier. This might have come through some unsatisfactory off-field process but they earned this opportunity on the field.

As for Newcastle, I have a great deal of sympathy for them. The uncertainty has been de-stabilising for both clubs but I suspect that with Dean Richards coming in they will rebuild and return to the Premiership stronger the season after next.

by Guest Fri Jun 29, 2012 6:44 pm

post from Mark W-J on this forum makes for interesting reading:

http://www.rugbynetwork.net/boards/read/s691.htm?1370,13374380,page=2

Initially I was under the impression that we were appealing against the RFU's decision to refuse promotion. That decision was based upon the recommendation of the PGB, which was itself based upon a number of considerations, most notably the MSC audit.

In the last week or so it's been stated that we're appealing against the outcome of the audit, which confuses me slightly. As I've said before, it's possible to pass the audit yet still not be recommended for promotion by the PGB; equally, it's conceivable that the RFU could ignore the recommendation of the PGB (although that would involve the RFU standing up to Premier Rugby). So, in theory, we could win our appeal against the outcome of the audit but the ultimate decision rests with the RFU, who could still refuse our application.

by HammerofThunor Fri Jun 29, 2012 6:47 pm

So far the last BBC Tweet on the matter was that the RFU had not received the result of the appeal and was an hour old. I wonder whether the appeal was successful but there are some complications, which is why the BBC aren't reporting it now.

by Guest Fri Jun 29, 2012 6:49 pm

Sky Sports News now running with this. Strange that there doesn't seem to have been anything official yet though.

by HammerofThunor Fri Jun 29, 2012 6:51 pm

It depends. What tends to happen is they copy each other. So if one has 'breaking news' the others copy. If someone made a mistake then the others would soon follow. I would have thought London Welsh would have the first to release the news and would be crowing about it by now.

EDIT: It's back up on the BBC now but no more details

by SubsBench Fri Jun 29, 2012 6:53 pm

Now been officially confirmed by BBC

by SubsBench Fri Jun 29, 2012 6:55 pm

And confirmed on LW site.

by HammerofThunor Fri Jun 29, 2012 6:56 pm

It's now on the London Welsh website that they won the appeal. Still nothing total official that they're promoted (BBC may have made the same mistake most of us did if they weren't appealing promotion)

by Guest Fri Jun 29, 2012 7:00 pm

It'll be very interesting if they do go up.

It they wind up getting beaten heavily on a regular basis it could pave the way for ring-fencing. If they manage to hold their own, then maybe it will open the way for other smaller clubs.

by Guest Fri Jun 29, 2012 7:03 pm

Newcastle statement:

http://www.newcastlefalcons.co.uk/news/story/newcastle-falcons-statement

They're definitely relegated. Shame for them. Best of luck to Welsh though.

by TrailApe Fri Jun 29, 2012 7:06 pm

Congratulations to LW.

I just hope the forthcoming season is benificial to the club and it's supporters.

by HammerofThunor Fri Jun 29, 2012 7:09 pm

That doesn't actually say they're relegated and they say "we will leave our options open as to where we go from here."

Although it certainly sounds like that was outcome

by Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler Fri Jun 29, 2012 7:11 pm

Ozzy3213 wrote:
HammerofThunor wrote:
Ozzy3213 wrote:
HammerofThunor wrote:If Welsh have been denied then everyone but them have come through it looking fine haven't they?

If they've been allowed to be promoted then whether people look good or not is dependant on their appeal being approved based on it's validity or the media storm Welsh have stirred up. If the latter none look good. If the former then the independant auditors look bad.

Not really. The RFU look shambolic for having allowed this circus to have arisen. A well know phrase about breweries comes to mind.

I don't understand. There is a set Minimum Criteria. They had an independant auditor group assess London Welsh's application. When turned down, based on this independant group's recommendation, London Welsh made an appeal. The appeal is happening. What should the RFU have done?

The whole process is flawed. The RFU should have steps in place to ensure that these things are dealt with prior to the season ending. The fact that Welsh have been able to apply after what I believe was the cut off date of 31st March is down to the RFU rules not being tight enough. It is also farcical that they have criteria for entry into the AP that 1/3rd of the sides currently in the competition would fail to meet. It is a poor show all round as far as I am concerned Thunor.

Ozzy to be fair on the rFU its set up that way because the proccess is expensive for clubs to go through. They only want to go through it whne they think they are in danger of promotion. Frankly noone including LW ever imagined tehyd go and win the thing, hence them leaving it to the last minute and hence them having no serious plan and ballsing it up when they came up with one.

Meanwhile the reverse case in Wales where Pontypool is threatening action for being denied Premiership status on the grounds they are cr@p is being ignored.

by HammerofThunor Fri Jun 29, 2012 7:17 pm

The BBC article is saying the panel ruled that the criteria were against UK and EU competition laws.

It also said that they didn't meet the criteria, so they were full of Poopie on that regard, like we all knew.

by HammerofThunor Fri Jun 29, 2012 7:32 pm

RFU have confirmed via twitter that Welsh are promoted.

What does this mean for the MC? Is there idea of them unfair, or just the level?

by Geordie Fri Jun 29, 2012 7:41 pm

So are they playing in oxford?? Handy for their London fans.

by wales606 Fri Jun 29, 2012 7:44 pm

Apologies fom stealing your scrumhalf by the way...

by Guest Fri Jun 29, 2012 7:45 pm

Full judgement is here:

http://uploadscdn.sportnetwork.net/upload/245/LW_appeal_judgment.pdf

basic jist seems to be that LW didn't meet the criteria, a fact they conceded, but there wasn't sufficient justification for the exemption to primacy of tenure in place for 3 existing premiership clubs not being extended, and that this breached competition law.

Sounds like the RFU and PGB will have to formulate new rules, which is slightly worrying for me as a London Irish fan. Will we be put under pressure to find our own stadium?

by HammerofThunor Fri Jun 29, 2012 8:00 pm

Well at least Welsh admitted they were full of Poopie regarding them meeting the criteria. Really not sure what's going to happen regarding changes.

by TrailApe Fri Jun 29, 2012 8:38 pm

Well I must admit as a Falcons fan I'm disapointed - first we were doomed, then we were saved - then the rules have changed.

HOWEVER - if this deciscion forces some of the existing premiership clubs to get their act together well I'll fully support it (not that I have a choice anyway like Wink

)

Onward and upward!

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