The London Welsh Spanking Thread

[yappysnap]

First topic message reminder :

London Welsh are the Robin Hood of the Rugby world.

To some they're heroic anti-establishment freedom fighters, valiantly sticking up for the underdogs against the wicked RFU and it's plans to make the Premiership a sound business model. To others they're a bunch of nitpicking moaners who threw their toys out of the pram over a bunch of fairly sound rules they had fair warning about and chose to bypass on a technicality.

But none of that matters, all I want to know is who you think will be handing them their biggest spanking of the pro era.

Welcome London Welsh to the Premiership ( Best League in the World TM).

(NB this is obviously factoring in Gavin Henson not signing for them)

[Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler]

I suppose they also have to consider Hensons access to his kids when deciding where to base themselves

[Effervescing Elephant]

I suppose they also have to consider Hensons access to his kids when deciding where to base themselves

His kids must get about a bit. He's had to move to loads of different clubs to be 'near' them...

[gregortree]

I have kept saying Swindon would have been a good compromise location 1/2 way between London & Wales. Handy too for Quins, Baarff, LI, Glaws, Worcs home / away matches and travelling fans. And for LV cup S Wales visiting teams.
[And for Ms Church, although she may no longer be a fan.]

[Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler]

I suppose they also have to consider Hensons access to his kids when deciding where to base themselves

His kids must get about a bit. He's had to move to loads of different clubs to be 'near' them...

Maybe its just him whos got a bout a bit too much and left them all over

[ScarletSpiderman]

I suppose they also have to consider Hensons access to his kids when deciding where to base themselves

His kids must get about a bit. He's had to move to loads of different clubs to be 'near' them...

Sadly him getting about a bit (cough cough) is going to kill off his rugby career, but I guess then he doesn't have to worry where the team is based.

[Jimpy]

If he carries on playing, Henson will soon be of a standard suitable for the Welsh international team..

[maestegmafia]

Still keeping some welsh association through their manager and owners but basically and English club.

They still are a member of the WRU. They are doing a great deal more for English rugby than Welsh at the moment by the look of your list HT. Your list has not included who has Welsh parents. Though a player is born in one country, if there parents are from another they may well consider themselves of the country of their parents not of their birth.

[AsLongAsBut100ofUs]

Ooh, very Shingleresque of you, maes!

[HammerofThunor]

Still keeping some welsh association through their manager and owners but basically and English club.

They still are a member of the WRU. They are doing a great deal more for English rugby than Welsh at the moment by the look of your list HT. Your list has not included who has Welsh parents. Though a player is born in one country, if there parents are from another they may well consider themselves of the country of their parents not of their birth.

Yeah I know. I started putting whether they were EQ or WQ or NEQ or NWQ but realised you can't know unless they've been capped. All it takes is a grandparent.

EDIT: Also the way they would have to be used for Welsh development would be to take on Welsh academy players from the regions. The WRU are probably against this as it's what they want to use the Premiership for. And the RFU are proabably against it because they want the academy players to be for England.

[maestegmafia]

The only way the RFU can guaranty Academies produce only English players would be to franchise the game.

At the moment we see talented dual nationality players like Botica, who may well take heaps from Harlequins system but move back to NZ and play for them like his father.

[Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler]

Or like the Evans brothers get picked up by Scotland and move to France

[Dubbelyew L Overate]

The only way the RFU can guaranty Academies produce only English players would be to franchise the game.

At the moment we see talented dual nationality players like Botica, who may well take heaps from Harlequins system but move back to NZ and play for them like his father.

Not quite - the 14 RFU England Regional Academies are virtually franchised to the clubs (by financial and coaching assistance) and they effectively form the club's academies. They are limited to EQ players only (which includes dual-qualified) - Tom Heathcote of Bath has just jumped ship to Scotland and will have been thrown out of the Academy, as was Josh Matavesi of Exeter when he chose Fiji a couple of years ago. I think the Evans brothers moved up North before they became NEQ.

London Welsh doesn't have one of the RFU Academies, though. They're at the other 11 AP clubs, plus Leeds, Bris and Newcastle.

[ScarletSpiderman]

Still keeping some welsh association through their manager and owners but basically and English club.

They still are a member of the WRU. They are doing a great deal more for English rugby than Welsh at the moment by the look of your list HT. Your list has not included who has Welsh parents. Though a player is born in one country, if there parents are from another they may well consider themselves of the country of their parents not of their birth.

Yeah I know. I started putting whether they were EQ or WQ or NEQ or NWQ but realised you can't know unless they've been capped. All it takes is a grandparent.

EDIT: Also the way they would have to be used for Welsh development would be to take on Welsh academy players from the regions. The WRU are probably against this as it's what they want to use the Premiership for. And the RFU are proabably against it because they want the academy players to be for England.

Or worse they could sent over players like Cai Griffiths or Dom Day, George North (before he became a big name), and other younger players who have dual nationality, only to end up with the players deciding they would rather chance their hand at the English national selection.

It is nice to see that London Welsh still have some Welsh in the heart of the team and off feild staff, however in the end of the day they have to live by the rules and style of the RFU and Jeff and even though they are a member of the WRU they realistically have no more influence on Welsh Rugby than Crymych RFC.

[maestegmafia]

Still keeping some welsh association through their manager and owners but basically and English club.

They still are a member of the WRU. They are doing a great deal more for English rugby than Welsh at the moment by the look of your list HT. Your list has not included who has Welsh parents. Though a player is born in one country, if there parents are from another they may well consider themselves of the country of their parents not of their birth.

Yeah I know. I started putting whether they were EQ or WQ or NEQ or NWQ but realised you can't know unless they've been capped. All it takes is a grandparent.

EDIT: Also the way they would have to be used for Welsh development would be to take on Welsh academy players from the regions. The WRU are probably against this as it's what they want to use the Premiership for. And the RFU are proabably against it because they want the academy players to be for England.

Or worse they could sent over players like Cai Griffiths or Dom Day, George North (before he became a big name), and other younger players who have dual nationality, only to end up with the players deciding they would rather chance their hand at the English national selection.

It is nice to see that London Welsh still have some Welsh in the heart of the team and off feild staff, however in the end of the day they have to live by the rules and style of the RFU and Jeff and even though they are a member of the WRU they realistically have no more influence on Welsh Rugby than Crymych RFC.

I can't see London Welsh forgetting their past, I've been a member for years and they are a proud community club. This is an interesting time in their history, could be very exciting.


Does George North have dual Nationality?

I think he might have been born in England to welsh parents but never lived there.

[ScarletSpiderman]

Maes - LW may not forget their heritage etc, but the fact of the matter is they are of less use to the WRU for player developement that the average village team in Wales (p.s. not calling Crymych average incase there are any touchy hills folk on here). Even if LW did get dual registered players there is not banking on them deciding to play for Wales, and if they did it could jepardise their career with LW as I believe LW need to feild a certain number of EQ players in their side over the length of the season.

[HammerofThunor]

Still keeping some welsh association through their manager and owners but basically and English club.

They still are a member of the WRU. They are doing a great deal more for English rugby than Welsh at the moment by the look of your list HT. Your list has not included who has Welsh parents. Though a player is born in one country, if there parents are from another they may well consider themselves of the country of their parents not of their birth.

Yeah I know. I started putting whether they were EQ or WQ or NEQ or NWQ but realised you can't know unless they've been capped. All it takes is a grandparent.

EDIT: Also the way they would have to be used for Welsh development would be to take on Welsh academy players from the regions. The WRU are probably against this as it's what they want to use the Premiership for. And the RFU are proabably against it because they want the academy players to be for England.

Or worse they could sent over players like Cai Griffiths or Dom Day, George North (before he became a big name), and other younger players who have dual nationality, only to end up with the players deciding they would rather chance their hand at the English national selection.

It is nice to see that London Welsh still have some Welsh in the heart of the team and off feild staff, however in the end of the day they have to live by the rules and style of the RFU and Jeff and even though they are a member of the WRU they realistically have no more influence on Welsh Rugby than Crymych RFC.

I can't see London Welsh forgetting their past, I've been a member for years and they are a proud community club. This is an interesting time in their history, could be very exciting.


Does George North have dual Nationality?

I think he might have been born in England to welsh parents but never lived there.

He was born in England but only lived their for a little bit (a few months I think) before moving to Hong Kong (?) for a couple of years before settling in Wales. According to wiki his dad is English but there was no reference so no idea where they got it from. I seem to remember someone saying his dad was half Welsh (possibly Cymroglan, as I think he knew the family, not sure).

Someone mentioned Botica earlier but he's not EQ. He might have a UK passport as he lived in England while he was a kid but he wasn't born here.

I imagine Welsh will go the same way as Irish. I think their hard core supportors are still of Irish decent even if they consider themselves English. But they have fewer (almost none) Irish players depending on the coach, or attempts to engage with their core support.

[Irish Londoner]

Hammer, agree with this one - although there's a lot of support for LI/LW/LS from expats/decsendants as the game gets more professional and international there's less engagement with the players on pitch (although LI do try).
The glory days for the exile clubs go back to the amatuer days when expats who could play high quality rugby but lived/worked in London were able to join these clubs and still retain a link with "home" rugby. I'd venture to suggest that a certain points during that era LW were probably as good as any of the big name Welsh based sides, and of course the tour matches back top the home country were legendary - on and off the field !!

[ScarletSpiderman]

I imagine Welsh will go the same way as Irish. I think their hard core supportors are still of Irish decent even if they consider themselves English. But they have fewer (almost none) Irish players depending on the coach, or attempts to engage with their core support.

Thats pretty much how I see it going, unless they end up back in the nobody leagues.

[Pete C (Kiwireddevil)]

Hammer, agree with this one - although there's a lot of support for LI/LW/LS from expats/decsendants as the game gets more professional and international there's less engagement with the players on pitch (although LI do try).
The glory days for the exile clubs go back to the amatuer days when expats who could play high quality rugby but lived/worked in London were able to join these clubs and still retain a link with "home" rugby. I'd venture to suggest that a certain points during that era LW were probably as good as any of the big name Welsh based sides, and of course the tour matches back top the home country were legendary - on and off the field !!

Back in the 70s LW had a host of Welsh internationals - I can't remember the list exactly, but I'd suggest that only the late '80s/early 90s Auckland side would have had more greats of the game in one club team.

[Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler]

LW are pragmatic with their team and arent just going to sign someone like Henson just because hes Werlsh and it would grab a few headlines and attract support from across the border.

Hang on....

...honestly I see a difference with LW from LI in that they are now located close enough to Wales to draw a few curios or disenfranchised NPG fans across the border to watch the odd Jeff ( or heaven forbid HEC!) game. Their owner is outrageously Welsh, and keen to find some way off tapping into WRU cash.
Im sure the Welsh audience would happily casually follow LW in domestic and Euro rugby.

Im starting to warm to the idea that LW may have some kind of vaguely sustainable future if they can avoid getting relegated, and they will be further helped if LI do and free up a bigger space along the Thames for them to hoover up casual fans

[Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler]

In terms of player development LW can only get a share of the EPS cash if the run one of the academies (they dont) or if they have players in the Elite Squad

There would be nothing to stop the WRU from agreeing a deal where they part fund the wages of WQ players , with that funding being cut if they loose there WQ status.

It could work well for the WRU having another team even with a limited number of WQ players that has access to topflight rugby and potentially HEC rugby too (especially in light of the probable qualification changes)

I guess the main obstacle to funding would be (somewhat justified) annoyance from their own regions and the home population

[PJHolybloke]

Hammer, agree with this one - although there's a lot of support for LI/LW/LS from expats/decsendants as the game gets more professional and international there's less engagement with the players on pitch (although LI do try).
The glory days for the exile clubs go back to the amatuer days when expats who could play high quality rugby but lived/worked in London were able to join these clubs and still retain a link with "home" rugby. I'd venture to suggest that a certain points during that era LW were probably as good as any of the big name Welsh based sides, and of course the tour matches back top the home country were legendary - on and off the field !!

Back in the 70s LW had a host of Welsh internationals - I can't remember the list exactly, but I'd suggest that only the late '80s/early 90s Auckland side would have had more greats of the game in one club team.

They had a tasty young full back with massive sidies who went oin to play on the 2 Lions tours of NZ and SA. Proper handful he was.

[maestegmafia]

Hammer, agree with this one - although there's a lot of support for LI/LW/LS from expats/decsendants as the game gets more professional and international there's less engagement with the players on pitch (although LI do try).
The glory days for the exile clubs go back to the amatuer days when expats who could play high quality rugby but lived/worked in London were able to join these clubs and still retain a link with "home" rugby. I'd venture to suggest that a certain points during that era LW were probably as good as any of the big name Welsh based sides, and of course the tour matches back top the home country were legendary - on and off the field !!

Back in the 70s LW had a host of Welsh internationals - I can't remember the list exactly, but I'd suggest that only the late '80s/early 90s Auckland side would have had more greats of the game in one club team.

They had a tasty young full back with massive sidies who went oin to play on the 2 Lions tours of NZ and SA. Proper handful he was.

Seven starting lions that beat the all blacks in 71.

[PJHolybloke]

Hell of a team Maesteg, hell of a team. Aside from JPR they had T.Gerald Davies and "The Swerve", but the others escape me. I bet you're looking forward to the game in March?

[maestegmafia]

Hell of a team Maesteg, hell of a team. Aside from JPR they had T.Gerald Davies and "The Swerve", but the others escape me. I bet you're looking forward to the game in March?

John Dawes Lions captain in '71 Coach in 77 and current president of London Welsh, John Taylor the openside (commentates and presents rugby on ITV also a key figure and ambassador for London Welsh as their vice chairman), Geoff Evans and Mike Roberts were also on tour.

[PJHolybloke]

Did you happen to see the Welsh Wizards program Sky ran recently about the 71/74 tours? It didn't mention the LW angle, but it was very good. It had all of them on there talking about the tours and each other, Gareth, Barry John, JJ, JPR, Gerald etc. some great footage too.

[maestegmafia]

Did you happen to see the Welsh Wizards program Sky ran recently about the 71/74 tours? It didn't mention the LW angle, but it was very good. It had all of them on there talking about the tours and each other, Gareth, Barry John, JJ, JPR, Gerald etc. some great footage too.

No but ill look out for that.

Sky have done some similar, very good retrospectives. I saw another with Hastings, Chlamers and Jeffrey's talking about 1990. Very funny story about Jeffrey and Dean Richards damaging the Calcutta Cup. Jeffrey was later banned for six months for his actions.

[AsLongAsBut100ofUs]

and Dean Richards given a slap on the wrist

[PJHolybloke]

Did you happen to see the Welsh Wizards program Sky ran recently about the 71/74 tours? It didn't mention the LW angle, but it was very good. It had all of them on there talking about the tours and each other, Gareth, Barry John, JJ, JPR, Gerald etc. some great footage too.

No but ill look out for that.

Sky have done some similar, very good retrospectives. I saw another with Hastings, Chlamers and Jeffrey's talking about 1990. Very funny story about Jeffrey and Dean Richards damaging the Calcutta Cup. Jeffrey was later banned for six months for his actions.

Yeah, I've heard that one. Rumour has it they were playing "football" with it up Princess Street. That's a banning right there, never mind the damage...

[maestegmafia]

Jeffrey was more than a little upset at the length of his ban, especially when Richards only got a week from the RFU.

[PJHolybloke]

Yeah, but football? Seriously?

Two of the finest back rowers to represent their respective countries, and whilst you can see the "issues" over their behaviour and the disparity of the punishment handed out by their Unions, I do miss that kind of camaraderie that was commonplace during the amateur era.

Maybe that's why I love The Lions so much?

I remember a story about a post match 5N dinner where the players had bottles of complimentary aftershave from one of the sponsers at their table place. I can't remember the individuals, but I'm sure they were front row forwards from Scotland and England.

One of them emptied the contents of their aftershave and replaced it with Gin on the sly, then challenged his opposite number to a drink-off, he whipped the top off his "aftershave", necked it in one and prompted his unfortunate oppo to do the same. It was, to be fair, downed in one... and then abruptly brought back up into a conveniently local potted plant, and again, and again, and again...

Those were the days.

[maestegmafia]

Yeah, but football? Seriously?

Two of the finest back rowers to represent their respective countries, and whilst you can see the "issues" over their behaviour and the disparity of the punishment handed out by their Unions, I do miss that kind of camaraderie that was commonplace during the amateur era.

Maybe that's why I love The Lions so much?

I remember a story about a post match 5N dinner where the players had bottles of complimentary aftershave from one of the sponsers at their table place. I can't remember the individuals, but I'm sure they were front row forwards from Scotland and England.

One of them emptied the contents of their aftershave and replaced it with Gin on the sly, then challenged his opposite number to a drink-off, he whipped the top off his "aftershave", necked it in one and prompted his unfortunate oppo to do the same. It was, to be fair, downed in one... and then abruptly brought back up into a conveniently local potted plant, and again, and again, and again...

Those were the days.

Had a glass of Poire William at lunch, when it was offered I wasn't sure whether to wear it or drink it...!

[PJHolybloke]

Sounds well posh either way... errrr, what is it?

[PJHolybloke]

Uh-oh, just had the dreaded "crook" off the boss. Catch you tomorrow.

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