Haye v Tyson

by Pedro147 Mon Apr 11, 2011 12:06 pm

Just got the idea from the Tyson in his prime article. Who do you think would win between Haye v Tyson in their primes and also if Haye were to go on and beat both Klit's do you think that he could be listed ahead of Tyson in the ATG's list as he would have unified two divisions, although against poor quality opposition.

Your thoughts please guys.

by hazharrison Mon Apr 11, 2011 12:09 pm

Tyson would have made quick work of Haye. Tyson was a great heavyweight - Haye hasn't proven anything at the weight as yet.

by **HumanWindmill** Mon Apr 11, 2011 12:10 pm

I fear that Tyson would make relatively short work of him.

Whatever his faults, Tyson was a ferocious puncher, and very fast of hand and foot. Haye's chin hasn't been tested among the big boys yet, but my suspicion is that it wouldn't stand up to a Tyson combo.

by Rowley Mon Apr 11, 2011 12:11 pm

Absolutely got to go with Tyson. Whilst I don't think haye is as chinny as he is often portrayed he is not Oliver McCall either and he does tend to get caught. Struggle to see him knocking Mike out quickly as he always displayed a decent chin and cannot see anyway Haye can stay out of trouble long enough to wear Mike down and think he gets taken out way before that happens.

by Pedro147 Mon Apr 11, 2011 12:17 pm

What about the ATG status? Do you feel Haye could potentially be ranked higher if he were to unify his second division?

by **oxring** Mon Apr 11, 2011 12:24 pm

You'd have to say Tyson takes this one. Fast, powerful and accurate. Haye's not particularly big either - nor does he have much of a jab or a chin. The only thing he might do would be try to get inside Tyson's head. Debatable.

Pedro147 wrote:What about the ATG status? Do you feel Haye could potentially be ranked higher if he were
to unify his second division?

Hard to say. Unifying a division without beating some of the top contenders, not sticking around to see if he could beat them (he would IMO), then moving up w/ a record of Barrett/Valuev/Ruiz/Harrison/W Klit.

Certainly W Klit would be a HUGE fillip to his resume and Tyson's ATG status takes a hit from the fact that his prime lasted all of 2 seconds.

But, in spite of his failings, the likes of Ruddock, Spinks, Holmes, Golota and Berbick probably beat Haye's resume - even when CW is taken into account.

by **HumanWindmill** Mon Apr 11, 2011 12:25 pm

Pedro147 wrote:What about the ATG status? Do you feel Haye could potentially be ranked higher if he were to unify his second division?

Not for me. Pedro.

If, ( and I reckon it's a big ' if, ' ) Haye should beat the two brothers there will always linger the idea that he caught them at the tail end, and particularly in the case of Vitali. We can say what we will about Tyson, ( I'd have him around tenth best heavy of all time, ) but he ripped through that division and made it his own in much the same way that Joe Louis had fifty years earlier.

by SugarRayRussell (PBK) Mon Apr 11, 2011 12:26 pm

Not sure about the ATG stuff the K bro's draw mixed receptions on that sort of thing some like them some don't. I wouldn't have either K in my top 20 so Haye would be nowhere near it. As for Haye vs Tyson, Tyson to win by KO early to quick, strong and busy for Haye.

by **88Chris05** Mon Apr 11, 2011 12:30 pm

Pedro147 wrote:What about the ATG status? Do you feel Haye could potentially be ranked higher if he were to unify his second division?

No, not even close for me, personally. Tyson would have beaten both of the Klitschkos for me (absolutely blowing Wladimir away in spectacular style) and, if Haye does indeed hang up the gloves by the end of 2011, then his Heavyweight tenure remains a non-entity compared to Tyson's. I see your point with regards to Haye having unified two divisions; unfortunately, one of them is historically the weakest division of all time, and the other is a once great division which, despite having two fairly good champions on top of it, is lacking in any kind of depth.

As for a potential match up between them, it's got a Tyson win written all over it. While Haye is fast and explosive, he's no more so than Tyson and, crucially, doesn't have that iron jab which presented a problem for Tyson. Haye does get hit, and without the jab it would be virtually impossible to prevent Tyson from walking him down - and when he catches up with Haye, it's all over. I'm yet to be convinced that Haye is a 'devastating' puncher at Heavyweight - Tyson, on the other hand, certainly was, and had the better chin of the pair (going on Haye's career thus far) by a considerable distance, too.

Tyson in the first four or five rounds, for me.

by coxy0001 Mon Apr 11, 2011 12:42 pm

Haye inside 2 for me.

Just to be different

We should probably save judgement for post KBro(s). Fear this debate would be much better if he beats both. Mainly if he ships punches and stays vertical as well.

by kevchadders Mon Apr 11, 2011 1:21 pm

Pedro147 wrote:What about the ATG status? Do you feel Haye could potentially be ranked higher if he were to unify his second division?

Like the others i think Tyson will always be above him even if Haye goes on to win against Vitali/Wlad.

Problem is Haye hasnt had that many fights and there isnt much in the way of talent at heavy for him to leap above Tyson. Dont think he would be too far away if he did clean up the heavyweight division.

by manos de piedra Mon Apr 11, 2011 1:53 pm

Its a strange one with Haye. The the Klitschkos are generally not rated highly for one reason or another. Most people dont even put them in their top 20 heavyweights. Yet a win for Haye is expected to elevate him to this new level. The klitschkos on the other hand, even if they beat Haye, will more than likely just continue on with no change to their status. Kind of highlights the impossible situation they are in.

by WHU_Champo_League_in_7Yrs Mon Apr 11, 2011 2:47 pm

No chance for haye against Tyson. Only a tall fighter with a strong jab could beat Tyson. Despite Hayes speed and power, he rarely throws combinations. Tyosn will get in his face by cutting off the ring and will find Hayes chin very easy to hit.

In terms of ATG status, I would say no. With both vlad and vit his record will be Barrett, Valuev, Ruiz, Harrison, Wladamir and vitali. Barrett is nothin, valuev is one of the worst boxers ever(a very poor champion), ruiz was used goods, Harrison is britains worst heavyweight, wlad is a very good win and vitali, IMO is over the hill.

If he adds to that list Povetkin, Chambers, Chagaev, Solis, Dimitrenko and chisora he might be an ATG purely the fact he took out all the top fighters of his era.

by hazharrison Mon Apr 11, 2011 3:36 pm

Haye is a million miles away from ATG status I'm afraid - his resume is far too thin.

by The Galveston Giant Mon Apr 11, 2011 4:38 pm

Tyson wins easily for me and even if haye beats the brothers i don't know if he would get in my top 100 ATG list

by The Galveston Giant Mon Apr 11, 2011 4:39 pm

Would add though as a criuserweight he's up there

by Jukebox Timebomb Mon Apr 11, 2011 4:43 pm

I too think that Tyson would be all wrong for Haye.

But, a win over WK and/or VK would surely better anything on Tysons record.

by manos de piedra Mon Apr 11, 2011 5:22 pm

I think comes down to IF he beats the Klitschkos, and if sow how do you rate the Klitschkos?

If most people dont rate the Klitschkos at all and have them outside their top 20 heavies then its hard to see how Haye beating them makes him a great, seeing as he would never have even faced let alone beat a great.

by ArchBritishchris Mon Apr 11, 2011 8:44 pm

Haye is still a relative newcomer to the division and may need a bit more time. At the minute due to his inexperience in the division he probably wouldn't beat Tyson. But, if he stays in the divison for a while longer, expands on his skillset and experience, well you never know. Haye isn't slow or immobile, which are probably the worst traits a Tyson opponent could possess. But, most of the guys who did well against Tyson were big, strong lads - will Haye ever be a solid and fit 225 lbs fighter? He'd need to do some major development work, but I wouldn't rule it out all together.

by Joshsmith Mon Apr 11, 2011 9:19 pm

Tyson would beat Haye if they fought tomorrow

by **88Chris05** Mon Apr 11, 2011 9:32 pm

Joshsmith wrote:Tyson would beat Haye if they fought tomorrow

The fact that he couldn't beat Danny Williams or Kevin McBride while six years younger than he currently is now doesn't bode well for your theory.

by Sir. badgerhands Mon Apr 11, 2011 9:38 pm

Joshsmith wrote:Tyson would beat Haye if they fought tomorrow

Maybe at Jenga or a pigeon racing quiz, but not in a boxing match!

by Joshsmith Mon Apr 11, 2011 9:44 pm

My Theory is simple. Haye is all mouth, he is a decimal piont higher than Harrison.. in boxing history

by Sir. badgerhands Mon Apr 11, 2011 9:45 pm

Joshsmith wrote:My Theory is simple. Haye is all mouth, he is a decimal piont higher than Harrison.. in boxing history

Well it's certainly a theory!!

by **88Chris05** Mon Apr 11, 2011 9:47 pm

Joshsmith wrote:My Theory is simple. Haye is all mouth, he is a decimal piont higher than Harrison.. in boxing history

And let me guess - right at the top of the pile, the greatest ever in his PRIME, would have beat them all if only it hadn't been for (insert excuse here), baddest man on the planet, is Mike Tyson, eh? I think this, coupled with the 'Tyson would have beaten them all!' article you've just posted, shows us all what we'll be dealing with here. I thought that day might come when a Tyson fanatic has something new to say, but alas, looks as if I'll just have to wait a bit longer!

by Sir. badgerhands Mon Apr 11, 2011 9:51 pm

PRIME Mike Tyson (at his best between brunch and afternoon nap) would have destroyed any HW ever. FACT.

by Joshsmith Mon Apr 11, 2011 10:11 pm

88Chris05 wrote:
Joshsmith wrote:My Theory is simple. Haye is all mouth, he is a decimal piont higher than Harrison.. in boxing history

And let me guess - right at the top of the pile, the greatest ever in his PRIME, would have beat them all if only it hadn't been for (insert excuse here), baddest man on the planet, is Mike Tyson, eh? I think this, coupled with the 'Tyson would have beaten them all!' article you've just posted, shows us all what we'll be dealing with here. I thought that day might come when a Tyson fanatic has something new to say, but alas, looks as if I'll just have to wait a bit longer!

22 years old... so you would have seen Usain Bolt break no smash sprint records how great was that to be around and see in actual time..
you will have seen the Twin Towers burst into flames history being made in front of your eyes..
Quite a few saw Tyson do such things when he was younger and i was around to see it...... no matter how many films books you read
when you see it happen in real time it makes more impact on your life...

by **88Chris05** Mon Apr 11, 2011 10:14 pm

Joshsmith wrote:
88Chris05 wrote:
Joshsmith wrote:My Theory is simple. Haye is all mouth, he is a decimal piont higher than Harrison.. in boxing history

And let me guess - right at the top of the pile, the greatest ever in his PRIME, would have beat them all if only it hadn't been for (insert excuse here), baddest man on the planet, is Mike Tyson, eh? I think this, coupled with the 'Tyson would have beaten them all!' article you've just posted, shows us all what we'll be dealing with here. I thought that day might come when a Tyson fanatic has something new to say, but alas, looks as if I'll just have to wait a bit longer!

22 years old... so you would have seen Usain Bolt break no smash sprint records how great was that to be around and see in actual time..
you will have seen the Twin Towers burst into flames history being made in front of your eyes..
Quite a few saw Tyson do such things when he was younger and i was around to see it...... no matter how many films books you read
when you see it happen in real time it makes more impact on your life...

Maybe so. But I'll stick by my point that no matter how great it was to see Tyson cutting his way through the Heavyweight division in the late eighties, he simply wouldn't be anywhere near beating Haye if he came out of retirement to fight him tomorrow, which is what you claimed. So if you were being serious, we'll just have to agree to disagree on that one.

by Joshsmith Mon Apr 11, 2011 10:31 pm

22 years old posts on here on average 10 times per day... cannot take a wise crack like Tyson would beat Haye tomorrow Sarcasm young man get off this site and enjoy the world stop being so serious go and "catch something you might be ashamed of.."...
I would give Tyson a week to get in shape first before he would batter Haye....

by **88Chris05** Mon Apr 11, 2011 10:36 pm

Joshsmith wrote:22 years old posts on here on average 10 times per day... cannot take a wise crack like Tyson would beat Haye tomorrow Sarcasm young man get off this site and enjoy the world stop being so serious go and "catch something you might be ashamed of.."...
I would give Tyson a week to get in shape first before he would batter Haye....

Yep, my life is almost as sad as that of a middle aged man who has been reduced to coming on a sports debate site to tell people how they need to develop as people and what they need to do in order to be cool, just like you are.

I can take a 'wisecrack' (will use that term liberally, though) fine thanks - unfortunately, I couldn't assume that your comment was a wisecrack as most Tyson fanatics are actually daft enough to be serious when saying something like that!

by Joshsmith Mon Apr 11, 2011 10:41 pm

You AAS-Ume a number of things young man..
Tyson Fanatic not guilty
Need to act cool not guilty
Middle Aged... Dont believe everthing you read..

by **88Chris05** Mon Apr 11, 2011 10:42 pm

Joshsmith wrote:You AAS-Ume a number of things young man..
Tyson Fanatic not guilty
Need to act cool not guilty
Middle Aged... Dont believe everthing you read..

Guilty of not proof-reading that post before you hit 'send' though, perhaps.

by Joshsmith Mon Apr 11, 2011 10:44 pm

Whatever

by Imperial Ghosty Mon Apr 11, 2011 10:51 pm

Good to see another imbecile has joined isn't is Chris

by **88Chris05** Mon Apr 11, 2011 10:55 pm

The Mighty Atom wrote:Good to see another imbecile has joined isn't is Chris

Better not reply to that, Ghosty; I don't think he likes me much as it is!

by BALTIMORA Tue Apr 12, 2011 12:14 am

Joshsmith wrote:
88Chris05 wrote:
Joshsmith wrote:My Theory is simple. Haye is all mouth, he is a decimal piont higher than Harrison.. in boxing history

And let me guess - right at the top of the pile, the greatest ever in his PRIME, would have beat them all if only it hadn't been for (insert excuse here), baddest man on the planet, is Mike Tyson, eh? I think this, coupled with the 'Tyson would have beaten them all!' article you've just posted, shows us all what we'll be dealing with here. I thought that day might come when a Tyson fanatic has something new to say, but alas, looks as if I'll just have to wait a bit longer!

22 years old... so you would have seen Usain Bolt break no smash sprint records how great was that to be around and see in actual time..
you will have seen the Twin Towers burst into flames history being made in front of your eyes..
Quite a few saw Tyson do such things when he was younger and i was around to see it...... no matter how many films books you read
when you see it happen in real time it makes more impact on your life...

Your response here Josh is largely gibberish. I'm sure you enjoyed watching Tyson burst into flames, and reading all those films, but please; next time you use spray paint, do it outside and wear a mask. Much as you may sulk at the thought, it's very fair to say that if Haye and Tyson fought tomorrow, Tyson would be on the end of a beating. If Danny Williams can stop Tyson back in '04, then it goes without saying a better boxer than Williams would have no problems with a lesser version of Tyson.

by WelshDevilRob Tue Apr 12, 2011 12:39 am

I'm a huge supporter of David Haye but nothing at Heavyweight I've seen convinces me that he can beat Mike Tyson. (Prime)

by AlexHuckerby Tue Apr 12, 2011 5:03 am

It's interesting to me, in complete honesty, for me it's a near toss up , I do realise that what I am saying is slightly controversial with some of you guys, however in complete honesty, Tyson never really fought a fighter who you could perhaps have said was faster than him. Tyson's speed and power was one of his great assets no doubt, but when you have someone slightly faster than him, how would he have reacted, also you cannot disagree that if Haye landed a good shot that stunned him and had him against the ropes battering him with the huge fast combinations he can throw then Tyson would be out of there but visa versa...

by BALTIMORA Tue Apr 12, 2011 11:57 am

AlexHuckerby wrote:It's interesting to me, in complete honesty, for me it's a near toss up , I do realise that what I am saying is slightly controversial with some of you guys, however in complete honesty, Tyson never really fought a fighter who you could perhaps have said was faster than him. Tyson's speed and power was one of his great assets no doubt, but when you have someone slightly faster than him, how would he have reacted, also you cannot disagree that if Haye landed a good shot that stunned him and had him against the ropes battering him with the huge fast combinations he can throw then Tyson would be out of there but visa versa...

Haye's fast, sure, but I can't see him coping with the early rounds swarming, punching-in-bunches style that Tyson brings. Haye has good power, but Tyson was no glass-chinned pushover and Haye's infrequent pot-shots, while powerful, just wouldn't have been enough to keep Tyson off. Is like to think otherwise, really I would, but I just can't see it. When it comes to huge fast combinations Tyson > Haye.

by Joshsmith Tue Apr 12, 2011 8:55 pm

BALTIMORA
..................................
What a gumball you are...
Danny Williams would beat Haye even if they fought This Good Friday..
Haye is a all mouth he is the new Audley Harrison

by BALTIMORA Tue Apr 12, 2011 9:02 pm

Joshsmith wrote:BALTIMORA
..................................
What a gumball you are...
Danny Williams would beat Haye even if they fought This Good Friday..
Haye is a all mouth he is the new Audley Harrison

Dear god man, you are joking aren't you? Do you have someone who ties your shoelaces for you? Give the wind-up a rest, will you?!

by Joshsmith Tue Apr 12, 2011 9:13 pm

BALTIMORA
.............................
NO i am not joking........ i do have someone do my laces...

by BALTIMORA Tue Apr 12, 2011 9:19 pm

Joshsmith wrote:BALTIMORA
.............................
NO i am not joking........ i do have someone do my laces...

I'm not at all surprised. You're either on a wind up, or some kind of care-in-the-community special case.

by Joshsmith Tue Apr 12, 2011 9:28 pm

stick to the post... Tyson would beat Haye....
or You're either on a wind up, or some kind of care-in-the-community special case.

by BALTIMORA Tue Apr 12, 2011 9:30 pm

If you were able to read my earlier posts, you'd know that I've already given my opinion. The fact you're fishing for a response with that Danny Williams nonsense tells me all I need to know.

by Joshsmith Tue Apr 12, 2011 9:39 pm

but Tyson was no glass-chinned pushover and Haye's infrequent pot-shots, while powerful, just wouldn't have been enough to keep Tyson off. Is like to think otherwise, really I would, but I just can't see it. When it comes to huge fast combinations Tyson > Haye......
..
Sorry do you mean this gibberish..........it is as clear as my latin homework
no offence..
please explain

by BALTIMORA Tue Apr 12, 2011 10:01 pm

Joshsmith wrote:but Tyson was no glass-chinned pushover and Haye's infrequent pot-shots, while powerful, just wouldn't have been enough to keep Tyson off. Is like to think otherwise, really I would, but I just can't see it. When it comes to huge fast combinations Tyson > Haye......
..
Sorry do you mean this gibberish..........it is as clear as my latin homework
no offence..
please explain

Did I make a mistake typing in English? Never mind. Better things to Ro than babysit you.

by Joshsmith Tue Apr 12, 2011 10:22 pm

Why so defensive??????????
Please give me all the stick you want and patronise me ... but please be a man accept it back........ what are you scared of.... ok the bbc forum has closed are you scared this one will too and you will be left... alone....

by SugarRayRussell (PBK) Wed Apr 13, 2011 12:21 am

Haye has done nothing to prove he is a good HW yet. Tyson for a short period of time was untouchable then threw it away. Their isn't a long list of HWs that would have beat Tyson 88/89.

by eddyfightfan Thu Apr 14, 2011 12:41 am

im guna go against the flow and say haye can pull of a win here. it wouldn't be easy but if he could survive the first couple of rounds i think he could keep tyson at bay and score points more and more successfully through the fight, maybe even getting the KO late on when iron mike would have slowed down.

he's not done much at HW but even a tired out ruiz stoppage and valuev walkover (with one hand) to me prove that he's above harrison/williams level by a long way. i think his CW record proves he's got the talent and a win over both K bros would for me prove that his mouth is backed up with real skill. remember its been years anyone has really troubled them and for a CW to step up and do it would indicate ATG talent.

however a loss would indicate a great CW, but only a average HW. i say loss because if haye were to lose to wlad i doubt haye/vitali would ever happen

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