London Welsh v Tigers - a mouthwatering Jeff opener

According to google maps:
Ricmond to Kassam - 54.2 mi, 1 hour 7 mins
Leicester to Kassam - 85.6 mi, 1 hour 43 mins

A new Jeff side in a new location should entice a number of locals through the doors - especially considering the opposition plus the curiosity value of Gavin.

The fixture may pull Welsh's biggest gate of the season although it will be interesting to see which sides fans forms the majority.

The Tigers should be wary of falling down the all-too-familiar heffalump trap of underestimating newly-promoted opposition, but should not overlook the tricky fixture of Quins and Sarries later in the month.

I'd be inclined to blood some newcomers and give a few of the returning injured players a re-test.

Castro, Youngs (T), Stankovich
Parling, Crane
Croft, Waldrom, Mafi

Harrison, Ford
Forsyth, Allen
Benjamin, Murphy,Tait

bench:
Cole, Mulipola, Chuter, Slater, Newby, Young, Manu, Hamilton

Won't every club's home fixture against the greatest club in the world will be the largest attendance of the year? And Quins and Sarries tricky games? Surely no match to the behemoth that is Leicester. The only thing that can beat them is the salary cap, or the play-off system, or the AIs...

Yawn, don't you just love the competive nature of the Jeff. Such a hard league.

Still I'm sure Leinster Zebre will be just as much fun.

Gosh,isnt the jeff really exciting now!ERRRR,no.It is dull.

I am starting to really hope London Welsh can cause an upset here. The amount of balls that is being spouted, you would thing that it were the final of the Worlds Best Club V The Universe or something, not the 2nd best Jeff side against a side that has only just been promoted. I wonder if the Man City fans were so excited to be playing Swansea in the start of the football premiership last season? I doubt it.

I'd send the best side down to LW we've got, LW are an unknown prospect and we need to start the season with a win. There's tougher games following on so the team needs to be tested and LW will have everything to prove early on.

Mulipola, T Youngs, Cole
Deacon, Parling
Mafi, Crane, Salvi
Harrison, Flood (they need to practise playing together with Benny injured)
Allen, Manu
Benjamin, Murphy, Thompstone

Bench: Stankovitch, Chuter, Castro, Slater, Newby, Young, Ford, Goneva/Tait.

I'm amazed at how much interest is being shown by Welsh people in the AP, a league they quite often argue is an inferior one...

There's always the chance of complacency and that an upset could happen. Unfortunately for Oxford Welsh, I'm pretty sure that's not going to happen. Its practically a home fixture for Tigers and they have nowhere near the strength up front to compete with what is probably the best forward unit in the league. Mind you, the sainted Henson is obviously going to be the difference between the two teams...

Welsh are going to be the whipping boys.

Bushys wrote:I'm amazed at how much interest is being shown by Welsh people in the AP, a league they quite often argue is an inferior one...

There's always the chance of complacency and that an upset could happen. Unfortunately for Oxford Welsh, I'm pretty sure that's not going to happen. Its practically a home fixture for Tigers and they have nowhere near the strength up front to compete with what is probably the best forward unit in the league. Mind you, the sainted Henson is obviously going to be the difference between the two teams...

Welsh are going to be the whipping boys.

Its nice to keep an eye on the minor leagues every now and again, especially when they are full of players who failed to make the grade in the Rabo. Also it is the off season, and there is very little rugby going on, and seeing as every other thread on here is about how LW are going to be destroyed in the Jeff, then it is hard no to post on them.

OUt of interest is the general concensus that the Tigers should pick up 5 pts in this game, and Welsh should be lucky to walk way with a losing bonues point?

OUt of interest is the general concensus that the Tigers should pick up 5 pts in this game, and Welsh should be lucky to walk way with a losing bonues point?

That is what is expected, whether that is the case I don't know. Often the team that comes up stays up as they have been forced to be lean and team focussed in the lower league where as there is normally an AP team that has gambled on established players and lost waiting to go down. That doesn't seem to be the position going into this season though as the second weakest team Worcester are a pretty well drilled unit with a good forward pack.

Its nice to keep an eye on the minor leagues every now and again

You could put any team from the bottom half of the Rabo in the AP and see them get relegated. The Rabo strength is focussed around 4ish teams normally (mostly Irish).

ScarletSpiderman wrote:

Bushys wrote:I'm amazed at how much interest is being shown by Welsh people in the AP, a league they quite often argue is an inferior one...

There's always the chance of complacency and that an upset could happen. Unfortunately for Oxford Welsh, I'm pretty sure that's not going to happen. Its practically a home fixture for Tigers and they have nowhere near the strength up front to compete with what is probably the best forward unit in the league. Mind you, the sainted Henson is obviously going to be the difference between the two teams...

Welsh are going to be the whipping boys.

Its nice to keep an eye on the minor leagues every now and again, especially when they are full of players who failed to make the grade in the Rabo. Also it is the off season, and there is very little rugby going on, and seeing as every other thread on here is about how LW are going to be destroyed in the Jeff, then it is hard no to post on them.

OUt of interest is the general concensus that the Tigers should pick up 5 pts in this game, and Welsh should be lucky to walk way with a losing bonues point?

As Tigers are on a hiding to nothing, I guess that they will expected to leave Oxford bonus pointless. That is the minimum requirement. Unfortunately that was the minimum against Aironi last year, and they fell short in the try count.

Optimists would argue for a 50 point score differential, point to the fact that come the playoffs, try count may make a difference so the more tries the better.

Cockers, I fancy, will be more pragmatic that. Four tries will be sufficient. Then shut up shop.

Sam - I would argue that the Blues, Dragons, Treviso, Connacht and Edinburgh are probably as strong as Wuss, Falcons and Wasps at the moment, and probably better than London Welsh. SO they wouldn't be relegated. But that is a different arguement for a different day.


Port - I would assume that it will be a case of see how hard it is to get the four, and what the gap is points wise. IF there is a 20pt+ gap then I think Leicester will go for the kill, if there isn't then it will be close up and defend the win.

I would argue that the Blues, Dragons, Treviso, Connacht and Edinburgh are probably as strong as Wuss, Falcons and Wasps

Why bring in Championship sides - feeling desperate?

ScarletSpiderman wrote:Sam - I would argue that the Blues, Dragons, Treviso, Connacht and Edinburgh are probably as strong as Wuss, Falcons and Wasps at the moment, and probably better than London Welsh. SO they wouldn't be relegated. But that is a different arguement for a different day.


Port - I would assume that it will be a case of see how hard it is to get the four, and what the gap is points wise. IF there is a 20pt+ gap then I think Leicester will go for the kill, if there isn't then it will be close up and defend the win.

That, SS forms the basis of my suggested bench - to stiffen up a largely second-string side.

p.s. not sure about Zebre being clearly better than Welsh - as they are an almost completely unknown factor.

I would argue that the Blues, Dragons, Treviso, Connacht and Edinburgh are probably as strong as Wuss, Falcons and Wasps at the moment, and probably better than London Welsh

I'd forgotten LW were in it . Falcons will be a good side now they've got rid of some of the dead wood and got Richards in charge. Wuss are suprisingly tough to beat and Wasps have made some excellent signings this off season. You're right it is an arguement for another day.

Portnoy I have to disagree with throwing out a half a first team and half a second team. Bad idea, if we get caught cold early doors we could leave ourselves chasing the win and that then plays into LWs hands as in Ross the have a good tactical kicker, in Henson a good points kicker and their backline is good on the counter. No, shove out the first team and beat them into submission as quickly as possible. Once the damage is overwhelming then look to give some second string a run out of the bench if you want but get the job done first!

ScarletSpiderman wrote:Sam - I would argue that the Blues, Dragons, Treviso, Connacht and Edinburgh are probably as strong as Wuss, Falcons and Wasps at the moment, and probably better than London Welsh. SO they wouldn't be relegated. But that is a different arguement for a different day.


Port - I would assume that it will be a case of see how hard it is to get the four, and what the gap is points wise. IF there is a 20pt+ gap then I think Leicester will go for the kill, if there isn't then it will be close up and defend the win.

Are a 2nd string Treviso,Edinburgh,Blues as good as a full strength Falcons,Worcester or Wasps though? Of course not.

In the Pro12 sides can get away with playing weakened sides because every man and his dog does it. In the AP do the same and you're chances of losing go up significantly.

You could argue it's not the Pro12's fault most of the time weak sides are fielded - afterall the HC is the bread and butter, no relegation and easy HC qualification for most sides means no risks for putting out under strength sides. Also many of the internationals come from only a small amount of clubs - e.g. Edinburgh and Treviso give a large bulk of their players to Scotland and Italy respectively for a duration of the season.

Every side in the Pro12 is affected by international call ups - compare that to the AP where you can see full strength sides taking on those without their best players.


Portnoy and Formerly vs Sam wouldn't the smart thing to do be to secure the try bonus (4 tries) then take off your best players?

You want to start the season with a bang.

It's a long season 'shocked, to my mind I'd put out a squad to do the business (just), shut up shop and then bugger off. My squad is more risky than Sam's suggestion but should do the job. And if it does the needful, then a similar side could be put out at WR the following week.

That should keep the first team fresher for the Quins and your lot.

But as we know, what I think doesn't matter - it's Cockerill's take on it that counts.

Every team wants to make a statement in the first match of the season. Tigers and Oxford included. So I fully expect Leicester to play their best team available, and to score and score big. Oxford should put up a strong fight but I can't see them close at the end.

I think the saving grace for OW is Lyn Jones, who I consider a very good and thoroughly professional coach.

Agree with that doctor grey and Sam.

Portnoy it is indeed a long season but you need to lay down a marker. Send a message that the Tigers mean business. You need the 5 pointer.

A 2nd string side in my opinion would show complacency and is a sign of disrespect in this case. London Welsh are unlikely to be as dangerous as Exeter proved to be but in their first match in the AP confidence we'll be high. They'll have nothing to lose - they have been written off and ridiculed before a ball has been kicked.

Unfortunately, I think any credibility that OW may have had coming in to this season has been negated by the signing of The Orange One. A player who is demonstrably a risky prospect at best.

It smacks of desperation when they've signed a player with a negative Midas touch to (one would assume) bolster their chances of staying up.

beshocked wrote:Agree with that doctor grey and Sam.

Portnoy it is indeed a long season but you need to lay down a marker. Send a message that the Tigers mean business. You need the 5 pointer.

A 2nd string side in my opinion would show complacency and is a sign of disrespect in this case. London Welsh are unlikely to be as dangerous as Exeter proved to be but in their first match in the AP confidence we'll be high. They'll have nothing to lose - they have been written off and ridiculed before a ball has been kicked.

'shocked (and Doc Grey and Sam), Injury is always a determining factor over the season - as are international calls. The Tigers are renowned to get players back to fitness before they let them return (except in extremis at the sharp end of the season).

But reintroducing them is determined by the strength of the opposition - so you wouldn't by choice restart them in matches against your perceived main opposition. Tigers have on the face of it, the two easiest sides on the bounce in the openers. If Crane, Croft and Tait are all declared fit and ready to go, then these two games should be taken as opportunities.

Cole, Mulipola and Manu in my opinion are too important to risk any overexposure for these games regarding the chaos/randomness of freak injuries.

What would Leinster do?

Cole, Mulipola and Manu in my opinion are too important to risk any overexposure for these games regarding the chaos/randomness of freak injuries.

What would Leinster do?

1) Leinster aren't an AP side that is recovering from an iffy season last time out. Better to get points on the board now and get in a strong position so we can give key players a week off before each round of HEC games.

2) Stano, Castro and Goneva can all cover for the players you said are key. There's also Brookes at prop to emerge as well. The first team need time to bed in this season, no point waiting for a big game to give them their first outing.

3) We can sub the big name players after we've put the game to bed. Go for an all out Blitzkreig early doors and try to get the game sorted by the 50th minute. Then we can sub the props, Deacon, Flood and Manu.

ScarletSpiderman wrote:

Bushys wrote:I'm amazed at how much interest is being shown by Welsh people in the AP, a league they quite often argue is an inferior one...

There's always the chance of complacency and that an upset could happen. Unfortunately for Oxford Welsh, I'm pretty sure that's not going to happen. Its practically a home fixture for Tigers and they have nowhere near the strength up front to compete with what is probably the best forward unit in the league. Mind you, the sainted Henson is obviously going to be the difference between the two teams...

Welsh are going to be the whipping boys.

Its nice to keep an eye on the minor leagues every now and again, especially when they are full of players who failed to make the grade in the Rabo. Also it is the off season, and there is very little rugby going on, and seeing as every other thread on here is about how LW are going to be destroyed in the Jeff, then it is hard no to post on them.

OUt of interest is the general concensus that the Tigers should pick up 5 pts in this game, and Welsh should be lucky to walk way with a losing bonues point?

Made the grade? Arnt all your top players running out of that league?

nathan - yeah Dom Day, Cai Griffiths, James Goode, Damien Welch (and numerous others) all top quality players.

I have heard somewhere that Henson is out until October injured. I don't know how he could have got injured, but that is the latest I have heard.

ScarletSpiderman wrote:
I have heard somewhere that Henson is out until October injured. I don't know how he could have got injured, but that is the latest I have heard.

Henson was probably injured when he tried to pick up the Annex to his contract, titled 'Penalty Clauses'.

I've no idea what Cockerill is going to do (maybe he'll await instructions from Portnoy ) - but given that it's the first game of the season, the location means it may well be a home game for Tiggers in terms of support in the ground, and that LOW are likely to be fired up as best as they'll ever be, the only option is to start with full on first team and take the game to them.
Ideally they want to put a shedload of points on the board as a statement to the rest of the Jeff and as a gauntlet to the other top four sides - full league points and a huge points scored tally would be the way I'd go.

How about Jones, Hook, Peel, Phillips, Morgan, Strokosch, Brown, Gray, Murray, Hamilton...

LW should be stuffed by Tigers, if they aren't I will be very impressed and revise my opinion of them.

LW should be stuffed by Tigers, if they aren't I will be very impressed and revise my opinion of them

Bit of a bananaskin this one. Oxford will be fired up with all sorts of points to prove and this is the sort of game they have probably dreamt off.

However it will be the first time they come up against a premieship pack and will have to adapt on the hoof.

If I was in charge of the stripey ones I would go with a strong side and bury Oxford, them but not bury them so deep that they are in shock for their forthcoming encounters against the tiggers main competitors.

And your coach better watch his gob - these lads have a good legal team and might sue your pants off.

Cockerill will want to use the (fit)member of his senior side now whilst they are available. That is if any of them are in a fit state after England got their hands on them.

The main danger in this game could be LW coming out fired up and looking to make life "difficult" with some "robust" tactics, and Tigers allowing that to boil over into some suspension worthy incidents. They dont exactly have a great track record recently in keeping their tempers.
This isnt singling LW out and calling them a dirty team before a balls even been kicked but its pretty much par for the course in this kind of game for the mismatched team to "stick it to them". I doubt they will go as far as deliberately breaking a players arm, but Tiger will expect a few attempts at roughing up.

I doubt Henson will make the starting side, if he does it shows how desperately short LW are. The guy has barely played in 3 years, and not had a club since April..Id be surprised if hes match ready by season start.

PSW - I dount London Welsh will want to see their first match in the Jeff turn into a who can get the most cards competition. Although I wouldn't hbe suprised if they put a little bit more aggression into the tackle. Maybe a second string Leicester side might be a good idea to avoid unnecessary injuries?

Bushys wrote:So thats 'a league full of players' is it...

Apologies for taking this off topic, however from a Welsh point of view;

Coaches -: Lyn Jones, Paul Turner, Paul Moriaty, Sonny Parker (or is he playing?)

Players -: Rhys Gill, TR Thomas, Craig Mitchell, Dom Day, James Goode (Newcastle), Damien Welch, Andy Powell, Martin Roberts, Ryan Powell, Nicky Robinson, Nick Mcloed, Lee Thomas, Steve Shingler, Phil Dolman, Gavin Henson, Jon Mills, Joe Ajuwa. (there are most likely more too)

I make that 4 coaches (unless Parker is playing still) and 17 players (18 if Parker is playing), so your right it isn't really that many rejects

They dont exactly have a great track record recently in keeping their tempers.

PSW, no Alessana and no Agulla should mean slightly more even tempers though it might still be worth paying Allen to tackle Manu the minute a fight starts to keep him away from the citing committee.

Maybe a second string Leicester side might be a good idea to avoid unnecessary injuries?

SS I'd say there are more likely to be injuries (and losses) if the Tigers first team go into the big games vs Sarries and Quins undercooked because they haven't played since pre season. Full match fitness can only be obtained on the pitch.

Sam - I was meaning more injuries that come from a sly dig in the ribs here, or a misplaced foot at a ruck here.

ScarletSpiderman wrote:PSW - I dount London Welsh will want to see their first match in the Jeff turn into a who can get the most cards competition. Although I wouldn't hbe suprised if they put a little bit more aggression into the tackle. Maybe a second string Leicester side might be a good idea to avoid unnecessary injuries?

Bushys wrote:So thats 'a league full of players' is it...

Apologies for taking this off topic, however from a Welsh point of view;

Coaches -: Lyn Jones, Paul Turner, Paul Moriaty, Sonny Parker (or is he playing?)

Players -: Rhys Gill, TR Thomas, Craig Mitchell, Dom Day, James Goode (Newcastle), Damien Welch, Andy Powell, Martin Roberts, Ryan Powell, Nicky Robinson, Nick Mcloed, Lee Thomas, Steve Shingler, Phil Dolman, Gavin Henson, Jon Mills, Joe Ajuwa. (there are most likely more too)

I make that 4 coaches (unless Parker is playing still) and 17 players (18 if Parker is playing), so your right it isn't really that many rejects

No you're right, it isn't that many, and certainly not enough to constitute a league full. Thanks chum......p.

Sam - I was meaning more injuries that come from a sly dig in the ribs here, or a misplaced foot at a ruck here.

Yeah I know SS, there might well be a bit of roughing up but Tigers will have to suck it up and give some back. Plenty of big HEC teams will do similar (combined with a much better skill set) so the players can't be wrapped in cotton wool forever. I'm a fan of rotation within the season but you need to figure out your first team and get it working before taking one or two elements out to rest. You can't start by resting half the team and expect them to have gelled a couple of weeks later against the battle tested Sarries and Quins. No prep for the big games starts against LW. Smash them and then empty the bench in the second half to protect the big players and give the likes of Ford an early season run out.

If Tigers can get a good start to the season it will be easier to rest players later on as there's a points cushion to fall back on should the replacements come up against a better team on the day. No points cushion and it will be like the 2011/12 season where we had to scrap every week to get into the top two for the season finale.

formerly known as Sam wrote:

Sam - I was meaning more injuries that come from a sly dig in the ribs here, or a misplaced foot at a ruck here.

Yeah I know SS, there might well be a bit of roughing up but Tigers will have to suck it up and give some back. Plenty of big HEC teams will do similar (combined with a much better skill set) so the players can't be wrapped in cotton wool forever. I'm a fan of rotation within the season but you need to figure out your first team and get it working before taking one or two elements out to rest. You can't start by resting half the team and expect them to have gelled a couple of weeks later against the battle tested Sarries and Quins. No prep for the big games starts against LW. Smash them and then empty the bench in the second half to protect the big players and give the likes of Ford an early season run out.

If Tigers can get a good start to the season it will be easier to rest players later on as there's a points cushion to fall back on should the replacements come up against a better team on the day. No points cushion and it will be like the 2011/12 season where we had to scrap every week to get into the top two for the season finale.

Thinking about it the HEC sides are probably better at getting away with it too. So i will withdraw my objection to feilding a full strength side.

ScarletSpiderman wrote:

Apologies for taking this off topic, however from a Welsh point of view;

Coaches -: Lyn Jones, Paul Turner, Paul Moriaty, Sonny Parker (or is he playing?)

Players -: Rhys Gill, TR Thomas, Craig Mitchell, Dom Day, James Goode (Newcastle), Damien Welch, Andy Powell, Martin Roberts, Ryan Powell, Nicky Robinson, Nick Mcloed, Lee Thomas, Steve Shingler, Phil Dolman, Gavin Henson, Jon Mills, Joe Ajuwa. (there are most likely more too)

I make that 4 coaches (unless Parker is playing still) and 17 players (18 if Parker is playing), so your right it isn't really that many rejects

Shingler is surely Scottish? But there are plenty more who claim Welshness and come via Regional sides to add to your list above:

Cai Griffiths, Darren allisson, Jon Spratt, Paul james, Will James, Martyn Thomas (the other one), Adam brown, James Lewis, Stephen Jones, Lee Thomas, Ceri Jones, and Dwayne peel


So pretty much a regions worth of players. Hard to call all of them "rejects" many would happily be picked up by the Regions but they cant employ/afford everyone. Theres a bunch of other Welshmen too who didnt come through the regions playing in England, a few of whom have caps. I havent looked at academy squads either. Sonny parker is listed as playinmg btw.

One thing to note though ... the only teams not to have any in their squads last year contested the Jeff final. Not sure what that says, but for the purposes of childish points scoring and bickering lets interpret it to mean the Welsh players suck
Adding to that how many of the Welsh national team are English?

You could put together a pretty mean Welsh team playing in England with all the exiles:

1.James (Bath)
2.Thomas (Wasps)
3.Lewis-Roberts (Sale)
4.Day (Bath)
5.James (Glaws)
6.Welch
7.erm... Adam Brown?
8.Powell (Sale)
9.Peel (Sale)
10.Jones (Wasps)
11.Joe Ajuwa (LW) - I think he is actually Nigerian though
12.McLeod (Sale)
13.L Thomas (Wasps)
14.M Thomas (Glaws)
15.Henson (LW)

Bit short on the flanks but there's some depth at 10, centre and prop.

PSW - not being disrespectful but not many of them would get picked up by a region, and the players (and coaches) I list all found themselves either having their contracts terminated, or not renewed by the regions (down to having to keep the best, and shed the rest). However some of the players you listed (Paul James, Matryn Thomas, Dwayne Peel to a point, Nigel Davies & Dai Young) left when they were still wanted within Wales.

I thought Ceri Jones was at the Quins?? (who whumped some little nobodies in the final) OH sorry my mistake he was at quins, but left.

ScarletSpiderman wrote:PSW - not being disrespectful but not many of them would get picked up by a region, and the players (and coaches) I list all found themselves either having their contracts terminated, or not renewed by the regions (down to having to keep the best, and shed the rest). However some of the players you listed (Paul James, Matryn Thomas, Dwayne Peel to a point, Nigel Davies & Dai Young) left when they were still wanted within Wales.

I thought Ceri Jones was at the Quins?? (who whumped some little nobodies in the final) OH sorry my mistake he was at quins, but left.

Oxford Welsh weren't in the AP final last year, but whumped is what they're going to be. You've got something right at last...

Scarlet,

Would you honestly say that every player at a welsh region is better than all of those listed except the ones you exempted?
Some wouldve been retained if their wages could have been met, many left at a very young age and have matured as players since, several have won caps whilst based in England, and others the Regions lost out for in bidding wars.
Im not suggesting these guys are top class players, most are only makeweights in the mid to low table Jeff sides, but theyd happily slot into Regional sides in similar roles.
Calling them "rejects" is a bit misleading in most cases. By your standards the regions are full of each others rejects.




With Ajuwa hes listed as Nigerian but I cant see anything saying hes played for them and would be tied

PSW - 'rejects' was tongue in cheek. Even thought they were technically rejected by the regions. The likes of Gill, Nick Macloed, Lee Thomas, and even Robinson have shown far more in the Jeff than they did for their regions, and would probably be taken back by the regions if the chance came up. Big Joe is not welsh, neither is Damien Welch, and I don't think either would qualify any more. Oh and Ben Broster is another name I forgot off the list.

Bushy - that London Welsh chip on your shoulder heavy?

ScarletSpiderman wrote:PSW - 'rejects' was tongue in cheek. Even thought they were technically rejected by the regions. The likes of Gill, Nick Macloed, Lee Thomas, and even Robinson have shown far more in the Jeff than they did for their regions, and would probably be taken back by the regions if the chance came up. Big Joe is not welsh, neither is Damien Welch, and I don't think either would qualify any more. Oh and Ben Broster is another name I forgot off the list.

Scarlet - that Leicester Tigers chip on your shoulder heavy?

There, fixed that for you.

Yes thats right, Leicester Tigers, widely acknowledged as one of the greatest club sides in Rugby Union history are 'little nobodies'. The same little nobodies who took Scarlets to the laundrette in the HEC not too long ago.

There are quite a lot of players in the AP with Welsh heritage, but hardly a 'league full' and by your own admission (finally) most are hardly 'rejects'.

It is highly likely (although not a foregone conclusion) that Tigers will hand Oxford Welsh a big defeat on opening weekend, there's no need to get all upset because people think and say this. Right now, Oxford Welsh are not a popular team with supporters of other teams in the AP. As i've already written on another thread, London Welsh's behaviour has stirred up a lot of vitriol on the various clubs' discussion boards - they're not at all popular! And there's certainly a body of opinion that is sick of them playing the "poor little put-upon Championship team" bleating.

They may have won the Championship according to the terms of the competition as far as the league went - but that wasn't all there was to it, as there were other stipulations and conditions, especially with regard to ground quality. LWelsh made no provision against the prospect of promotion until after the deadline had passed and only scrambled around at the last minute to get the Kassam Stadium deal. They do not have a sustainable business model, albeit this is an accusation that you could level at several other Premiership clubs, and have made steady losses (I'm hoping that Wasps' new owners will address this for the club, but that's another story).

As a club, they seem to be run by a bunch of rich Taffia members and it certainly sticks in my craw that a club that is affiliated to the WRU is going to accept a large amount of central RFU funding when they don't seem to have had any commitment to (English) player development to date.

Exeter, by contrast, have won lots of friends through the enthusiasm of their fans and their clear commitment to building a team. No star names (not really, yet), but a good solid squad who put it on the line for one another.

The likes of Gill, Nick Macloed, Lee Thomas, and even Robinson have shown far more in the Jeff than they did for their regions, and would probably be taken back by the regions if the chance came up

SS there are a few exiles the Welsh clubs would like to have back but surely the one they would have loved to return would have been Effion Lewis-Roberts. Massive powerhouse prop would have been a key player at 3 of the 4 regions. I know he has a farm in North Wales but even so if the opportunity was right one of them should have been able to tempt him. I suspect Rhys Gill might be tempted back home when his contract is up next summer.

ScarletSpiderman wrote:PSW - 'rejects' was tongue in cheek. Even thought they were technically rejected by the regions. The likes of Gill, Nick Macloed, Lee Thomas, and even Robinson have shown far more in the Jeff than they did for their regions, and would probably be taken back by the regions if the chance came up. Big Joe is not welsh, neither is Damien Welch, and I don't think either would qualify any more. Oh and Ben Broster is another name I forgot off the list.

Bushy - that London Welsh chip on your shoulder heavy?

Ben Broster is English though despite having played for Wales

PSW - yeah but you would class me as English even though i have lived in Wales for all bar two years of my life.

Bushy - What was the score last time we met? 30 odd to 3? I think we took you to the cleaners my firend. Anyway, like I said it was a bit of banter for PSW, who in fairness can take a bit of a ribbing as well as give it. However if the thought of someone making fun of your Tigers upsets you then maybe an online forum is not the best place to be. Anyhow I am sure you will be one ofthe many people who will be on here celebrating an historic win over LW when you do thump them.

ScarletSpiderman wrote:PSW - yeah but you would class me as English even though i have lived in Wales for all bar two years of my life.

Bushy - What was the score last time we met? 30 odd to 3? I think we took you to the cleaners my firend. Anyway, like I said it was a bit of banter for PSW, who in fairness can take a bit of a ribbing as well as give it. However if the thought of someone making fun of your Tigers upsets you then maybe an online forum is not the best place to be. Anyhow I am sure you will be one ofthe many people who will be on here celebrating an historic win over LW when you do thump them.

Oh, they'll hump them, worry you not.

ScarletSpiderman wrote:PSW - yeah but you would class me as English even though i have lived in Wales for all bar two years of my life.

Bushy - What was the score last time we met? 30 odd to 3? I think we took you to the cleaners my firend. Anyway, like I said it was a bit of banter for PSW, who in fairness can take a bit of a ribbing as well as give it. However if the thought of someone making fun of your Tigers upsets you then maybe an online forum is not the best place to be. Anyhow I am sure you will be one ofthe many people who will be on here celebrating an historic win over LW when you do thump them.

And if the thought of someone, anyone, running Oxford Welsh down upsets you, then ditto.

Oh, and i'm a Wasps supporter you numpty. See my post of 15.51 yesterday, the clues are rather easy to spot.

Bushys - fair enough I guess. I can understand your distaste for London Welsh then if your a Wasps supporter (although how is anyone meant to know that when all you have posted on are London Welsh, Leicester Tigers and British GP). And fair play to you for your defense of another Jeff side very admirable. I have no issues with people running down London Welsh, however there needs to be someone on here who takes their side every now and again (especially seeing as they are more hated than bankers right now).

ScarletSpiderman London Welsh are definitely not hated more than bankers.

Signing Tango man is certainly not going to win them too many friends in the AP though.

My team will be looking forward to hopefully giving London Welsh and Tango man a hammering when they face. Bit of spice because Henson did not make a very good impression at my club.

On you boasting about beating the Tigers in the Low Value Cup. Seriously who cares? The Low Value cup is worth so little that Tigers won it playing a 2nd string most of the time.

What was the score last time we met? 30 odd to 3?

In the LV. Hardly much of a competition (I say that even though we won it as well). Last time we met in the HEC was a little different though, 46-10 at WR and then 18-32 at the Parc.

especially seeing as they are more hated than bankers right now

SS I don't think they are that disliked. Bankers are in a league of their own in the ace hole stakes. LW have rubbed people up the wrong way by moving to Oxford, not playing by the rules and signing everyones favourite panto villain Henson. People like an underdog though so if they play with the counter attacking flair they showed in the Champ and front up in the forwards they may earn some new fans.

Beshocked - ok, bankers was a bad example but i bet if you did a poll it would be close.