The Lions One Year Out Part 2

This is the Whiff guys thoughts on the Backs then

Lions – The Backs

On Tuesday, we looked at the forwards putting themselves forward for Lions selection. Today we see which backs should start learning the words to Power of Four, the fondly remembered Lions anthem.

Scrum Half

Already Packed his Spider-Bite Cream: Mike Phillips. At this juncture, no player is more inked in to the Lions test jersey than the big Welsh number nine. Not the most technically gifted, but a decent passer, his main strength is his running game and ability to link with his forwards. Plus, he’s already impressed on a Lions tour.

Work to do: Ben Youngs would be the obvious and desired deputy to Phillips – someone who offers something completely different, and a potential impact replacement late in matches, upping the pace and running tap penalties. He appears to have recovered his game after a difficult period. Danny Care mixes the good with the bad, but has had a fine season with Harlequins. You suspect Gatland would like Conor Murray in the panel as an insurance plan against Phillips, but he needs to show his best form. He needs to show greater speed off the base, but has a good pass once it gets moving.

Any bolters? Ospreys’ scrum half Rhys Webb is a smashing player, and looks the most capable of making a late burst.

Fly Half

Already Reading His Lonely Planet Guide: Johnny Sexton. With his goal-kicking yips behind him for Ireland, Johnny Sexton was one of the few successes of the Irish summer tour. Still not quite as regal in green as in blue, but we suspect Gatland is the sort of coach who’ll cajole the best out of him. Should be the test starter.

Work to do: We’re still not convinced by Rhys Priestland by a long way. Gatland seems to be a fan, though, even if he’s taken him off place-kicking duty for Wales. If Leigh Halfpenny cannot get into the side at full-back ahead of Rob Kearney, it will compromise his test credentials. Toby Flood and Owen Farrell offer slightly more stable talents than the hot-and-cold Welshman, and both will be on hand to provide solid back-up to Sexton should Gatland choose dependable place-kicking over more mercurial abilities.

Any bolters? A couple. A certain D. Cipriani will be back on English shores this season with Sale. Gatland was his one-time mentor back in the day at Wasps. It remains unlikely that the one-time next big thing will have the discipline and defensive willingness to push for a place on the tour, but how marvellous it would be if he could. The incumbent next-big-thing, George Ford is another who could make a late dash, but needs to depose Toby Flood at Leicester first.

Centres

Surfboard at the ready: The only centre who looks anything close to nailed-on is Wales’ Big Bopper Jamie Roberts. We had him in our ‘work to do’ section last year, but he has done plenty of that in the last twelve months. Hard runner, good hands, when he’s on song he’s close to unplayable; he’ll be a key man for the Lions and nigh on irreplaceable.

Work to do: Can Brian O’Driscoll see out his career with a victorious Lions tour? He would love nothing more. The old ledge-bag looked sprightly for Leinster but played a touch fast and loose in New Zealand. If his body holds together, he’ll surely do enough to make the plane. Oooooooooooohhh Manu Tuilagi and JJV Davies offer more - how shall we put this? - straight-line tendencies, but both would offer a serious threat to the Aussie gainline.

Any Bolters? Quality inside centres to offer competition to Roberts are thin on the ground, and it’s possible his understudy for Wales, Ashley Beck, will do likewise for the Lions. Performance in the Pro12 final underlined his quality.

Wings

Wine-tasting guide packed: George North. There’s no shortage of quality on the wings, with all four countries putting up quality players for examination, but the big, bruising Welshman is top of the bunch. No bosh-merchant, his skill, distribution and movement belie his monstrous physique.

Work to do: A large field. From Ireland there’s Keith Earls and Tommy Bowe. Earls’ ability to play centre could work to his advantage, and he has a Lions tour under his belt. Bowe excelled in 2009, and is Ireland’s best attacker. Wales’ other wing Alex Cuthbert (another monster) has timed his rise from obscurity to test class wing impeccably. Chris Ashton’s star has waned a little, but he’ll be looking to reassert himself at Saracens. And flying Dutchman (via Scotland) Tim Visser is in with a shout. He has only one Six Nations to show he can handle international rugby, but he only has the hopes of a nation riding on it, so no pressure, laddie.

Bolters: This is the most bolter-friendly position on the paddock; youngsters can quickly emerge and put themselves in the frame in a short space of time – it’s also a position where confidence and form have the biggest role to play, so Gatland might look past reputation and take a punt on those who are banging in tries. Christian Wade, Craig Gilroy and Charlie Sharples are just three of many to keep an eye on.

Full Back

Planning a visit to Ayers Rock: Another area of real depth for the Lions, with all four nations putting up a genuine contender. But Rob Kearney, after his annus mirabilis, is at the top of the tree. Outstanding performances on last Lions tour won’t be forgotten either.

Work to do: It’ll be at most two from three terrific international players. Leigh Halfpenny has a mule of a boot and while he isn’t the tallest, is a beautiful runner and dependable catcher. England’s Ben Foden is a shade off his 2010-11 form, but he is a handsome footballer in every sense of the word. Already making a bolt is Scotland’s Stuart Hogg, having been eventually let loose for Scotland this Six Nations. Greased lightning over the turf, his pace would be a real asset.

Any bolters: Felix Jones was mentioned in our comments section this time last year, but injury has been cruel to him. Gloucester’s lightning-fast Johnny May is an exciting talent, but can he break into the England team to make an impression?

Just Eleven Months To Go

A year out from the tour, the augurs are good. Wales ran Australia very close in the recent series, and were painfully unlucky to come out on the losing side in the latter two matches. Surely augmenting that side with a handful of daring Irish, granite-hewn Englishmen, and a giant peroxide-blonde Scot will tilt the balance? Warren Gatland has already been on one successful, albeit losing, tour and his task will be to deliver a harmonious, happy, competitive squad, similar to 2009. Therer’s usually little enough you can do on the tactical innovation side in such a short timeframe, so don’t expect too much variation on the Welsh run-hard-run-straight gameplan, with Mike Phillips directing a brutish pack of forwards and Sexton looking to bring the likes of George North and Tim Visser into play as much as possible. With quality scrummagers, no short of backrow options and plenty of good attacking threats in the backline, this is the Lions’ best chance of a series win since… ooooooh… 1997. Memo to all: don’t get injured.

Hmm I'd say its the Lions best chance since 2001.... and well that didn't go so well....

Bolters: Jonny Wilkinson, Gavin Henson, Dan Biggar, Dave Kearney.

Dav kearney will probably need to get an Ireland cap first, don't see that happening. Gilroy is probaly a better bet. Zebo is a bolter candidate, he could excell is utilisedwell amazingly talented open field runner, creates space for himself too.

Why would he need an Ireland cap? Will Greenwood and Keith Earls weren't capped.

Zebo and Gilroy.No chance. 2017 maybe. There's too many specialist wingers who are better and more experienced.

Kearney Jr offers something a bit different, I think he'll prove to be a special player but I'm not sure if that will be next season or the one after. He reminds me of Nacewa a bit.

Nice post Rava.

I disagree though the only certainty in the centres is Roberts. He needs to get over his injury and prove he is on form. Possible, sure. Certainty, not so sure and therefore not a certainty for me. Gatland will be hoping he can get back for Wales but if he does get back to his best and does play well with Davies, does that augur badly for BOD?

Phillips is your certainty for halfback and I like the contrast of Youngs. But quick service is not Phillip's strength so how will Sexton perform with slow ball? If Roberts is fit, then Sexton may well be missed out to take Roberts into the Aussie backline. Will he adapt quickly and be liberated by that freedom to run inside or around Roberts? Who will be goal kicker and who will cover goalkicker? Halfpenny or another specialist flyhalf? Priestland's inclusion depends on the former rather than the latter in my view.

The other wing spot is up in the air as well as the utility backline player on the bench. I think Gatland has to be aggressive and go with an impact player. Be that Bowe, Tuilagi or someone who can be relied on to do some damage offensively.

Gatland can pick a lot of forwards and they all provide a lot of strengths. He doesn't seem to have so many riches when it comes to the backs. Very few locks in positions at the moment. Injuries and test form will prove vital.

Earls had Ireland caps before he toured. Kearney is good but he is not Nacewa good. Think he would make a fine centre though. Disagree on Zebo, he has something not many wingers have, he is a bolter and more than likely won't make it but he offers something a lot of guys don't. He is more like an NFL player with his style.

If he can use this season to sort his defence out...Wade will be there as the Williams / Robinson player who can make things hapen from wing.

Is there a bolter to be had in the front row. Could a young lad like Rhodri Jones find himself on the plane due to covering both sides of scrum?

GeordieFalcon wrote:If he can use this season to sort his defence out...Wade will be there as the Williams / Robinson player who can make things hapen from wing.

Yea I could see that happening.

Already Packed his Spider-Bite Cream: Mike Phillips. At this juncture, no player is more inked in to the Lions test jersey than the big Welsh number nine.

I hope that Ben Youngs, amongst others, can have a sustained run of form and fitness to un-ink Phillips from the Test XV. I don't think there's a more frustrating Welsh player to watch. How can they say that Conor Murray needs to work on his speed from the base when Phillips provides slower ball?

kiakahaaotearoa wrote:
But quick service is not Phillip's strength so how will Sexton perform with slow ball?

err maybe watch 90% of Irelands games from the last 2 seasons for the answer to that.. have a stiff drink first maybe.... ...

I would be extremely surprised if Earls toured.

I think Murray ponders too much, he has slow service but a fast pass if you getme. He takes that feicing step, and overthinks a bit at ruck time. He can eradicate that I think. His fast service and pass got him involved with Ireland in the first place.

Rodders, its less than 12 months since Murray made his debut. How can he be reponsible for things that happened 2 years ago.

Hes not, that was TOL's fault

It's Rodders/Munster Stag. We can't do anything right in his eyes....

I think we all know the core of the squad already to be fair. Its the outer aspects that need to be confirmed...

Yeah rodders I didn't imply it was pretty. But look on the bright side. We had ponderous service from Cowan and Weepu for years. Now we have someone who runs the risk of Carter or Cruden knocking it on because they`re not used to getting the ball so quickly. Things can change.

A Welsh fan pointed out to me that Phillips's tactic of skipping out Priestland and going straight to Roberts was often the cause of Phillip's step. A good case was made but Phillips taking on the line is a point in his favour. Busting up the guts through the middle is an effective way to take on Australia. The Lions need to take on Australia through the fringes first up. All the quick ball in the world won't disrupt the Aussie defensive line. Sucking in defenders and committing Aussie players to the rucks will provide the gaps elsewhere.

And Ben Youngs is lightning around the fringes, Kia. I'd much prefer Youngs in the side than Phillips. The forwards can take the ball up, we don't need a scrum half doing it too.

My Lions backline would look like this as of right now...

9. Phillips (sadly)
10. Sexton
11. North
12. Roberts
13. Tuilagi
14. Bowe
15. Kearney

With

Young, Flood 1/2p on the bench.

That might just be the biggest backline in lions history, with Cuthbert, Visser as options also.

I' would play a very ferocious combative game, and pepper the Aus back row all first half. Different strike runner from different angles and staying tight! Then 20 into the 2nd half replace Sexton, Phillips and Tuilagi for Youngs Flood and 1/2p and open up totally... wow we have options!

9. Phillips (sadly)
10. Sexton
11. North
12. Roberts
13. Tuilagi
14. Bowe
15. Kearney

With the creativity of a dead slug...

GeordieFalcon wrote:

9. Phillips (sadly)
10. Sexton
11. North
12. Roberts
13. Tuilagi
14. Bowe
15. Kearney

With the creativity of a dead slug...

That line up does have a certain one-dimensional charm, don't it?

It is totally one dimensional, but unlike most lineups on here it is designed to play to a plan!

Keep the back row tight, keep them tackling, keep our tight 5 on top, and keep posession. Cut out mistakes and pound the fringes and 10 channel.

Once the subs are made we'll have the personell to open things up and go for the jugular!!!

Creativity is not the be all and end all, and it comes at a risk, that risk will be hugely highlighted by one of the best counter attacking teams on the planet!!!

red_stag wrote:I would be extremely surprised if Earls toured.

So who is going to play against the Rebels 4 days before a test against Australia?

thebluesmancometh wrote:It is totally one dimensional, but unlike most lineups on here it is designed to play to a plan!

Keep the back row tight, keep them tackling, keep our tight 5 on top, and keep posession. Cut out mistakes and pound the fringes and 10 channel.

Once the subs are made we'll have the personell to open things up and go for the jugular!!!

Assuming the plan's worked, that is. The alternative is that the Wallabies will have held our one-dimensional attack at bay, so the footballers coming off the bench will have to rescue us.

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:And Ben Youngs is lightning around the fringes, Kia. I'd much prefer Youngs in the side than Phillips. The forwards can take the ball up, we don't need a scrum half doing it too.

I agree with the first part. But I'm not talking about darting from around the base of the ruck. I'm saying Phillips can be an extra forward in the line. You might say that's not needed but I'm saying a combative halfback who can mix it up with the opposition forwards in the line is an advantage. I think Youngs coming on to replace Phillips when fresh legs are required and gaps are more likely to open up is a better use of him.

Then we'll have to agree to differ!

+ australia completely lose the rag when teams edge them physically

Couple of bolter suggestions:

- Alex Goode - the Sarries fullback is an excellent fullback who can create from deep, act as a secondary play maker on the blind side or out wide to give creative options to the 10. Add in he is thoroughly reliable points kicker (75%ish I think from memory) and another tactical kicking option. Not the biggest guy and is not blessed with bags of pace (he's as quick as Kearney though).

- Matt Tait - if he's fit (BIG if) he could be an explosive utility option covering 13, wing and 15. He has played in a RWC Final at both 13 and 15 and has a season at Tigers to make a massive left field claim.

Haha fair enough mate.

I know where you're coming from though. Believe me the ABs haven't had this kind of service under A Smith since G Bachop! Kelleher has been the best of a pedestrian bunch (no pun intended).

I'd say that they will look at partnerships and keep them that way Priestland & Phillips, Sexton & Murray* & whoever with Youngs - whoever is the starting halfbacks in the previous 6Ns.

*Wouldn't be surprised to see O'Leary back in the mix either instead of Murray.

Rescue?
How so?

The difference between a gameplan and a losing teams is the individuals ability to capitalise and adapt.
If we pepper the 10 channel, tight lines with some of the most destructive runners in the game and don't manage a few linebreaks I would be amazed. More likely is that the initial linebreaks will be made but not finished. With my gameplan all strike runners are running similar lines, at differing angles, and therefore if a linebreak occurs support runners are automatically on hand.
Keep the backrow tackling or on the floor, get over the gameline and give the tight 5 targets to hit.

If the gameplan doesn't work Plan B is already set raring to go!

Why does your logic apply to my lineup and not to a more creative one?

I don't think we'll get very far trying to smash though Australias midfield, we need to mix it up otherwise Pocock will have a field day slowing the ball down and turning us over.

9 Youngs
10 Sexton
11 North
12 Davies/ Roberts
13 O'Driscoll
14 Bowe/ Visser
15 Kearney / Halfpenny

The big bosh back line thing doesn't work or else Wales would have dominated Australia. Wales have the biggest back line in world rugby with a 6 foot 3 halfback, a 6 foot 1 and 6 foot 3/4 centre partnership, with two wingers at 6 foot 4 and over. Plus those guys are over 16 stone.

Need for a mix of strength and speed, we saw that Wales' approach didn't really work.

BTW - Rava, thanks a bunch for these topics. You have brought everyone together for a great debate and sparked some life into the forums.

To be fair they didn't have their best bosh back exponent in Roberts. Plus they didn't get ascendancy in the forwards as they would have hoped. I wouldn't go discounting it just yet.

To me the real difference has to come in the performance of the pack. If that changes then so too does your backline performance. That's true for any opponent.

Precisely. On the subject of Wales's tour of Australia, is anyone else concerned that we'll see the Lions employing exactly the same tactics?

EDIT: Sorry, that 'precisely' was in response to Rodders, Rory and Thomond's comments.

I'm not sure about O'Driscoll. I watched his magnificent performance in the HC Cup final (by far the best of his three HC final appearances), and I thought he'll definitely start for the Lions. But you you see some other games and he's way off. He blows very hot and cold now. At 33 he just can't maintain the not stop brilliance of the past.

One thing in his favour is that Sexton and Roberts look to be frontrunners. O'Driscoll has an almost telepathic understanding with Sexton and they combine at Leinster to be devastatingly creative. And we know from 2009 that O'Driscoll and Roberts were natural born centre partners.

Sexton/Roberts/O'Driscoll could be a great midfield. If only O'Driscoll was just a few years younger. While he still has moments of brilliance, the reality is there are younger, stronger, faster 13's in contention (though none have his quick rugby brain and vision).

Anyone comparing Wales tour with a lions test really needs to re examine!!!

Wales were domninated in the tight 5, lost the breakdown battle, and the backline lived off scraps in all 3 tests. And what the backline did do they did well, especially with a stuttering 10.

I would go as far to say that if Flood, Sexton or even Laidlaw had played in that 10 slot Wales would've won the 2nd/3rd tests.

If you allow Aus to dictate the ball you'll lose, Wales did that and they did. However with a few key introductions into the tight 5, Ford, Gray etc.. and a few more ball carrying options in the back row, Ferris, SOB etc the lions are more than capable of dominating posession.

I get the feeling a lot of you are letting your naitionality obscure your view of things.

Wales biggest failing was the breakdown, they were dominated, yet the Wales loss means the backline is useless...

I disagree whole heartedly!

True, I have come to realise that Roberts is an essential component of the welsh game plan. I also do not think they bring North/Cuthbert into the game enough. However the welsh forwards are not really the type to put you on the front foot. They are quick at the breakdown (or at least they usually are) but they don't have a big carrying option to really make some ground. Ryan Jones has been quite good at taking that upon himself lately though. Wales generally make up for this by using their even bigger backs, who can give them some momentum.

The welsh back line didn't really physically dominate Australia though which is sort of the whole point. They are the guys meant to put Wales on the front foot so that the mobile pack can recycle quick ball. Again, Roberts was definitely missed here, but it just didn't seem to work.

Rory_Gallagher wrote:The welsh back line didn't really physically dominate Australia though which is sort of the whole point. They are the guys meant to put Wales on the front foot so that the mobile pack can recycle quick ball. Again, Roberts was definitely missed here, but it just didn't seem to work.

They werent given the platform to. Forewards and sh put teams on the front foot not backs

kindof going off point.. to sum it up, I think it should be clear enough that beating australia through physical dominance is a good tactic to follow. Especially when you take numerous england and the ireland performances into account

Rory

100% bang on mate. The Welsh tight 5 and back row havn't enough ball carrying options!
Roberts was always going to be missed because of that alone! That's the reason I believe Davies is key for Wales, he does add some carrying.

The welsh backline didn't dominate the Aus, but when your playing off 40% of ball, with a stuttering 10, and a 9 who takes forever to get the ball out it is hardly surprising! Phillips lends himself well to a direct game, of which Wales weren't playing as North and Cuthbert weren't coming in on the tight.

Wales had no front foot ball, yet every time the ball got to the centres we looked very threatening, Ioane's positioning was ropy, the other winger (can't remember his name) was anonymous in defence.

With front foot ball a large lions backline can destroy the Aus backline.

But you have to have some footballing ability in there too. If you know what's coming, you're better placed to counteract it.

kunu wrote:

Rory_Gallagher wrote:The welsh back line didn't really physically dominate Australia though which is sort of the whole point. They are the guys meant to put Wales on the front foot so that the mobile pack can recycle quick ball. Again, Roberts was definitely missed here, but it just didn't seem to work.

They werent given the platform to. Forewards and sh put teams on the front foot not backs

And the Aussies were fielding a bigger backline than usual - the absence of Cooper, O'Connor and (partially) Beale meant their backline was more solid defensively, at the expense of a lot of attacking spark.

red_stag wrote:Is there a bolter to be had in the front row. Could a young lad like Rhodri Jones find himself on the plane due to covering both sides of scrum?

Who?

rodders wrote:Hmm I'd say its the Lions best chance since 2001.... and well that didn't go so well....

Bolters: Jonny Wilkinson, Gavin Henson, Dan Biggar, Dave Kearney.

Greig Laidlaw is not mentioned above, so can I class him as a bolter?

kunu wrote:

Rory_Gallagher wrote:The welsh back line didn't really physically dominate Australia though which is sort of the whole point. They are the guys meant to put Wales on the front foot so that the mobile pack can recycle quick ball. Again, Roberts was definitely missed here, but it just didn't seem to work.

They werent given the platform to. Forewards and sh put teams on the front foot not backs

They do generally, but for Wales, their big ball carriers are in the backs. They provide the momentum.

I think they need a few guys in the pack as well though. There must be a balance.