The Lions One Year Out Part 2

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This is the Whiff guys thoughts on the Backs then

Lions – The Backs

On Tuesday, we looked at the forwards putting themselves forward for Lions selection. Today we see which backs should start learning the words to Power of Four, the fondly remembered Lions anthem.

Scrum Half

Already Packed his Spider-Bite Cream: Mike Phillips. At this juncture, no player is more inked in to the Lions test jersey than the big Welsh number nine. Not the most technically gifted, but a decent passer, his main strength is his running game and ability to link with his forwards. Plus, he’s already impressed on a Lions tour.

Work to do: Ben Youngs would be the obvious and desired deputy to Phillips – someone who offers something completely different, and a potential impact replacement late in matches, upping the pace and running tap penalties. He appears to have recovered his game after a difficult period. Danny Care mixes the good with the bad, but has had a fine season with Harlequins. You suspect Gatland would like Conor Murray in the panel as an insurance plan against Phillips, but he needs to show his best form. He needs to show greater speed off the base, but has a good pass once it gets moving.

Any bolters? Ospreys’ scrum half Rhys Webb is a smashing player, and looks the most capable of making a late burst.

Fly Half

Already Reading His Lonely Planet Guide: Johnny Sexton. With his goal-kicking yips behind him for Ireland, Johnny Sexton was one of the few successes of the Irish summer tour. Still not quite as regal in green as in blue, but we suspect Gatland is the sort of coach who’ll cajole the best out of him. Should be the test starter.

Work to do: We’re still not convinced by Rhys Priestland by a long way. Gatland seems to be a fan, though, even if he’s taken him off place-kicking duty for Wales. If Leigh Halfpenny cannot get into the side at full-back ahead of Rob Kearney, it will compromise his test credentials. Toby Flood and Owen Farrell offer slightly more stable talents than the hot-and-cold Welshman, and both will be on hand to provide solid back-up to Sexton should Gatland choose dependable place-kicking over more mercurial abilities.

Any bolters? A couple. A certain D. Cipriani will be back on English shores this season with Sale. Gatland was his one-time mentor back in the day at Wasps. It remains unlikely that the one-time next big thing will have the discipline and defensive willingness to push for a place on the tour, but how marvellous it would be if he could. The incumbent next-big-thing, George Ford is another who could make a late dash, but needs to depose Toby Flood at Leicester first.

Centres

Surfboard at the ready: The only centre who looks anything close to nailed-on is Wales’ Big Bopper Jamie Roberts. We had him in our ‘work to do’ section last year, but he has done plenty of that in the last twelve months. Hard runner, good hands, when he’s on song he’s close to unplayable; he’ll be a key man for the Lions and nigh on irreplaceable.

Work to do: Can Brian O’Driscoll see out his career with a victorious Lions tour? He would love nothing more. The old ledge-bag looked sprightly for Leinster but played a touch fast and loose in New Zealand. If his body holds together, he’ll surely do enough to make the plane. Oooooooooooohhh Manu Tuilagi and JJV Davies offer more - how shall we put this? - straight-line tendencies, but both would offer a serious threat to the Aussie gainline.

Any Bolters? Quality inside centres to offer competition to Roberts are thin on the ground, and it’s possible his understudy for Wales, Ashley Beck, will do likewise for the Lions. Performance in the Pro12 final underlined his quality.

Wings

Wine-tasting guide packed: George North. There’s no shortage of quality on the wings, with all four countries putting up quality players for examination, but the big, bruising Welshman is top of the bunch. No bosh-merchant, his skill, distribution and movement belie his monstrous physique.

Work to do: A large field. From Ireland there’s Keith Earls and Tommy Bowe. Earls’ ability to play centre could work to his advantage, and he has a Lions tour under his belt. Bowe excelled in 2009, and is Ireland’s best attacker. Wales’ other wing Alex Cuthbert (another monster) has timed his rise from obscurity to test class wing impeccably. Chris Ashton’s star has waned a little, but he’ll be looking to reassert himself at Saracens. And flying Dutchman (via Scotland) Tim Visser is in with a shout. He has only one Six Nations to show he can handle international rugby, but he only has the hopes of a nation riding on it, so no pressure, laddie.

Bolters: This is the most bolter-friendly position on the paddock; youngsters can quickly emerge and put themselves in the frame in a short space of time – it’s also a position where confidence and form have the biggest role to play, so Gatland might look past reputation and take a punt on those who are banging in tries. Christian Wade, Craig Gilroy and Charlie Sharples are just three of many to keep an eye on.

Full Back

Planning a visit to Ayers Rock: Another area of real depth for the Lions, with all four nations putting up a genuine contender. But Rob Kearney, after his annus mirabilis, is at the top of the tree. Outstanding performances on last Lions tour won’t be forgotten either.

Work to do: It’ll be at most two from three terrific international players. Leigh Halfpenny has a mule of a boot and while he isn’t the tallest, is a beautiful runner and dependable catcher. England’s Ben Foden is a shade off his 2010-11 form, but he is a handsome footballer in every sense of the word. Already making a bolt is Scotland’s Stuart Hogg, having been eventually let loose for Scotland this Six Nations. Greased lightning over the turf, his pace would be a real asset.

Any bolters: Felix Jones was mentioned in our comments section this time last year, but injury has been cruel to him. Gloucester’s lightning-fast Johnny May is an exciting talent, but can he break into the England team to make an impression?

Just Eleven Months To Go

A year out from the tour, the augurs are good. Wales ran Australia very close in the recent series, and were painfully unlucky to come out on the losing side in the latter two matches. Surely augmenting that side with a handful of daring Irish, granite-hewn Englishmen, and a giant peroxide-blonde Scot will tilt the balance? Warren Gatland has already been on one successful, albeit losing, tour and his task will be to deliver a harmonious, happy, competitive squad, similar to 2009. Therer’s usually little enough you can do on the tactical innovation side in such a short timeframe, so don’t expect too much variation on the Welsh run-hard-run-straight gameplan, with Mike Phillips directing a brutish pack of forwards and Sexton looking to bring the likes of George North and Tim Visser into play as much as possible. With quality scrummagers, no short of backrow options and plenty of good attacking threats in the backline, this is the Lions’ best chance of a series win since… ooooooh… 1997. Memo to all: don’t get injured.

thebluesmancometh wrote:Fodens a good defender, but Kearneys defence is better, and 1/2p will literally knock himself unconscious to stop a runner. Foden doesn't have that fierceness about him.

Everythings opinion on here, why would I need to be reminded?

Geordie

You havn't picked a balanced back line with no 9 or 10, a potential star whos shown little, and an aging star at 13. I'd say your backline is as unbalanced as it gets

Kearney isn't a good defender,it's the one area of real weakness in his game.He buys dummies wasy too easily and while he doesn't fall off tackles he doesn't dominate them either.

Geordie

Sorry mate got yours and Ravas lineups confused.

Everythings an opinion on here

But my opinion is better

All posters opinions are equal.... but some are more equal than others

Thanks lads for over 350 posts on a thread without any real controversy!

You see it can be done.

Good luck everyone for the new season and I hope all Lions hopefuls keep injury free

Respect to the OP for a great thread.... even if he did throw a curveball by doing two of them

Its not too late for it to go pear shaped...it is 606 guys...

What this topic shows is the dearth of good SHs in the NH. Iwould go for Conor Murray as the best of a not very inspirational bunch. For me Mike Phillips gets too involved in being an auxiliary flanker and doesn't concentrate on the bread and butter of a SHs role. Mike Blair is far too inconsistent and will be playing in the French second division so you can forget him.Cusiter can't go as he will not collect his kit if he acts the same way in an airport as he does on the pitch. He will see his luggage in front of him on the conveyor belt but spend 2 minutes vaguely waving his hands to show the kit man where he wants him to stand. By which time, the luggage will be away

Dwayne Peel as a possible surprise 9?

At moment i would say its down to

Care / Youngs / Phillips at 9.

But its a year away....anything could happen...

thebluesmancometh wrote:maj

What are you talking about, Roberts played plenty in the 6N. He's not been out for that long, and will be back soon.

It's players like Warbs and AWJ who havn't played much rugby since the WC!

Sparkling knowledge by him again.

Rava,

I fancy it'll be two out and out fullbacks (Foden and Kearney) and 1/2p as wing/FB. No reason why they can't all tour. Maybe a tour too soon for Hogg, though he is playing well. 1/2p as an extra goalkicker is bound to tip a close call in his favour.

I agree about Hogg mad we may put too much expectation on him which might affect his game. Foden for FB for me with Kearnet as back up. I'm afraid I can't take any back seriously who wears a scrum cap

Peel has been playing well for Sale

I'll agree with Asbo that Greg Laidlaw must be the bolted on bolter though. Covers two problematic positions to a very high standard.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3MZwjAJ84vk

Y'all must have forgot!

Rodders,

Aw man...with that video 5m 30 + you have just smashed all the Wilkinson haters jibes (myth) that he couldnt run or pass?

You bad man!

What England would give to have him back in his prime....(and Farrells not a patch on him)

Wilko for the Lions, you heard it here 1st

Maybe a bit late now mate...and as a falcons man...he's obviously a big favorite of mine...

Younger guys can battle it out now while Johnny enjoys his retirement in the sun...

Dark horse Geordie, thats all I'm saying. Dark horse .

Halfbacks are key. There aren't any natural pairings that standout other than Youngs and Flood, who play for club and country together. A great pairing but not great under pressure.

So at the moment it is likely that we'll see a new pairing in Aus.

Mike Phillips on form is the best, off form he is behind nearly all the home nations starters.

Jonny Sexton and Toby Flood are the two stand out flyhalves.

Still a year to go, maybe in that time a new pairing or individual performance will change opinion.

Right now I'd rate Danny Care and Sexton.

Bolters, Tavis Knoyle, Laidlaw, Madigan, George Ford.

InjuredYetAgain wrote:Mike Phillips gets too involved in being an auxiliary flanker and doesn't concentrate on the bread and butter of a SHs role.

Exactly right. I'd rather a bona fide scrum half than a wannabe back rower who is all too easily riled by the opposition.

At full back, I'd take Halfpenny over Foden. I'd probably take Stuart Hogg over Foden, too. Next season will give us a better idea of who's where in the pecking order, but Hogg is such a talent that it might be impossible to leave him at home.

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:
I'd probably take Stuart Hogg over Foden, too. Next season will give us a better idea of who's where in the pecking order, but Hogg is such a talent that it might be impossible to leave him at home.

I think there are a number of Scottish halfbacks and outside backs who would be in contention next year but that would be semi dependent on a decent centre pairing appearing from nowhere in the next few weeks.

Good halfbacks

Maes, I really rate Duncan Weir but it looks like Greig Laidlaw's Scotland's first-choice outside half for the time being. That'll make it so much harder for Weir to push for Lions selection.

maestegmafia wrote:

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:
I'd probably take Stuart Hogg over Foden, too. Next season will give us a better idea of who's where in the pecking order, but Hogg is such a talent that it might be impossible to leave him at home.

I think there are a number of Scottish halfbacks and outside backs who would be in contention next year but that would be semi dependent on a decent centre pairing appearing from nowhere in the next few weeks.

Good halfbacks

Not quite from nowhere, to be fair.

Matt Scott has had an excellent first season, and was instrumental in Edinburgh’s HC run – he’s 21, has played flyhalf so can distribute beautifully from inside centre, he’s a big lad so can truck it up if need be and he’s quick with a good eye for a break. Alex Dunbar is also developing well at Glasgow. He doesn’t quite have Scott’s distribution skills, but he does pass well off both hands and has a remarkable ability to gain yards with ball in hand in almost any situation. He can also cover outside centre.

Hmmm, outside centre. I know de Luca gets a lot of (deserved, sometimes) stick on these boards, but ask Tim Visser why he’s got such a fearsome try-scronig record for Edinburgh and he’ll point to de Luca – a good defender with decent outside break and, more importantly, the ability to put the players around him into space. He’s been stuck playing with duffers at like Graeme Morrison and Sean Lamont at 12 during his Scotland career so far, so with either Scott or Dunbar alongside him he should do well. We’ve also got Ansbro who I rate very, very highly, Dunbar himself, Ben Cairns coming back from a long term injury and a few good u20s players on the horizon.

I’m not saying any of these guys are Lions material (though with the paucity of options at 12, Scott could make a charge if he plays well next season), but to say that Scotland is struggling for a decent centre is, at last, not quite accurate.

AsLongAsBut100ofUs wrote:

red_stag wrote:Is there a bolter to be had in the front row. Could a young lad like Rhodri Jones find himself on the plane due to covering both sides of scrum?

Who?

Welsh prop. Plays for Scarlets. 20 years old. He will be first choice this season with Iestyn Thomas retiring. He plays loosehead for Scarlets but the WRU seem to want to mould him into a tight head. Played tighthead against the Baa Baas. Matthew Rees said "Rhod has the potential to be a world class tighthead. I think he is ideal tight head material".

He is going to be getting a lot of game time this season and if he finds himself getting gametime for Wales, he could be a bolter.

red_stag wrote:

AsLongAsBut100ofUs wrote:

red_stag wrote:Is there a bolter to be had in the front row. Could a young lad like Rhodri Jones find himself on the plane due to covering both sides of scrum?

Who?

Welsh prop. Plays for Scarlets. 20 years old. He will be first choice this season with Iestyn Thomas retiring. He plays loosehead for Scarlets but the WRU seem to want to mould him into a tight head. Played tighthead against the Baa Baas. Matthew Rees said "Rhod has the potential to be a world class tighthead. I think he is ideal tight head material".

He is going to be getting a lot of game time this season and if he finds himself getting gametime for Wales, he could be a bolter.

That was a tongue-in-cheek 'who?', Staggy!

Oh

Staggy there's a load of more experienced props in his way, he's going to have to make a serious impression to get on the plance.

Currently the must have prop selections are:

LH: Healy, Jenkins
TH: A Jones, Cole

There's certainly space for others but with Marler, Corbs, Ross, Murray and James all eyeing up spots it'll be tight.

Sam, it is the fact that he covers loosehead and tight head that could see them there especially if Gatland knows him.

Most of the guys you have listed can only play one side of the scrum.

As long as there is a 22 man bench internationally versatile props are an asset.

Foden is easily a better tackler than Kearney I'd say. But Kearney was really on form this year. He was on fire. So he has to be favourite a year out.

All fullback three candidates score try's, and are pretty good all rounders, so I'm not to worried over who gets selected there..

red_stag wrote:Sam, it is the fact that he covers loosehead and tight head that could see them there especially if Gatland knows him.

Most of the guys you have listed can only play one side of the scrum.

As long as there is a 22 man bench internationally versatile props are an asset.

The AI's will see 23 man squads used for the first time at international level, i presume this will be the case for the Lions tour as well.

Will be interesting to see what happens with Foden this year at international level. Will Lancaster look to keep him on the wing, where he performed well, and leave room for Mike Brown/Alex Goode? If he becomes a winger he would need to prove his credentials there this year and would be a good shout for the Lions as a utility back, rather than as an out and out full back.

This is the backs thread! Mods! .... ...

Foden has better defensive than both Halfpenny and Kearney, no-one remember Kearney getting beaten 1 on 1 against Fofana by a marginal in out swerve? People are also crediting Halfpenny for his tackle on Strettle, when in reality had JD not been there everyone would have been criticising him for getting ran over by Strettle, who would have scored.

Anyway, Kearney and Foden will go as FBs with Halfpenny as the utility wing/FB. SHs, I see fit and in form Care and Youngs being well ahead of Philips who I think is incredibly overrated. As many have said, he seems more occupied with proving how big he is, than he does in being an international scrum half.

Yeah I can see Kearney, Foden and Halfpenny all going. With the added advantage Halfpenny has in the kicking department IMO will see him involved in the test squad

Bedford/Frosties, where would you see Mike Brown in a years time? Do you see him as a bolter?

Rava,

I rate Brown a lot so I guess it will depend on what exposure he gets for England over the coming season.

If he gets a lot then it could see Foden miss out.

It's a tough situation for Brown, he is very solid and consistent but seems to lack that little extra you need for an international player. Hes unlucky that we have Foden and Goode (i was very impressed with him in SA), as he would own that shirt against most other competition.

If there are a raft of injuries to either the first choice Lions or the England options he would make a very able replacement. Its a good place to be for an England fan, but less so for him on a personal level. He was told what issues were keeping him from selection, then went and improved on them until he was selected. A very good dedicated player but, unfortunately for him, I only ever see him as being back-up to the other FB's available.

THe thing is, Brown actually offers a lot on attack, that's why he was joint 3rd on the AP try-scorers list

True CJ, he does always seem to pop up in the right places. Thing is, he doesn't offer certain things that the other options do, Foden scores tries aswell but also has blinding pace and is a good footballer. Goode, while not the fastest, has a great step and acceleration as well as being an additional playmaker. I wish Brown had stayed fit for the entire tour so we could have got a better look at him. He really deserves to be a regular for all the work hes put in.

Ah well, if he gets another chance I'm sue he'll do himself justice. Sometimes players get unlucky and, frankly and selfishly, we're going to need him at Quins this season. Nice to be able to do horses for courses with Fullbacks- I think MB was the right man for SA with his kicking game but if Foden becomes a utility back 3/ covers wing then we can pick the 15 that best fits into our midfield and against the opposition. To do that they all need a few tests' experience though

England have a real bounty at full back...

Foden, Brown and after the last SA test Goode proved we have 3 top class FB's.

Can we all slow down a little with the praise for Goode? He had one test where he played well other then that he hasn't done much for a whole season.

Remember a while back Morgan and Abendanon were the next big things and May is soon to be our messiah.

yappysnap wrote:Can we all slow down a little with the praise for Goode? He had one test where he played well other then that he hasn't done much for a whole season.

Remember a while back Morgan and Abendanon were the next big things and May is soon to be our messiah.

Nah yappy, Cipriani is the Messiah

How are you?


Too early to say which backs will tour, but I hope we pick some that can play, rather than boshers. The Aussies are probably the best organised of the SH teams defensively. They will take down bosh merchants all day long.

An interesting point Hound, especially since Australia would be one of the smaller back lines in world rugby.

Rors, I hope BOD is fit, because he's a shoo in for the most creative centre. I think he could bring the best out of any centre alongside him. Be that Roberts, Davies, Tuilagi or De Luca.

Care would be my 9 with Sexton at 10, then the back three is well up for grabs. Lots of candidates.

Yappy...

I have praised Goode in respect that i think having a good game in a test v SA warrants it.

He is still behind Brown and Foden and rightly so...but lets give him a bit of acknowledgment of a very good performance.

If that had been a SH player...everyone would be lauding all over him....

Good post Rava.

Some very optimistic/left field prediction as to whom the 'bolters' might be. I'd be surprised if the squad is more than 37 players, which for the backs probably means something like:

1. 3 scrum halves
2. 2/3 fly halves
3. 5 centres
4. 5 wingers
5. 2 full backs.

Not sure that there's going to be any space for anyone not currently foremost in the considerations of the current international coaches. For what it's worth:

Re: 9 - I cannot believe people are suggesting Philips starts. I'm not sure if anyone saw them, but a short time ago there were three rugby matches in which Genia played Philips and in all of which Genia made the Third Flanker look really quite daft. How many more times do we need to see this masochists' theatre played out? Philips does not have fast enough feet to cope with Genia.

Has to be Youngs or someone nippy like Dickson. Laidlaw would also be an excellent choice as I cannot think of anyone in the home nations who can play 9 and 10 at international level.

Re: 10 - if it's only 2, then it has to be Sexton and Farrell. Priestland spradically excellent but flakier than an old croissant in my wife's checked luggage.

Re: 15 - not sure we can possibly consider bolters when we're probably going to have to leave at least two of Foden, Kearney, Byrne, Hogg and Halfpenny at home.