The Lions One Year Out Part 2

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This is the Whiff guys thoughts on the Backs then

Lions – The Backs

On Tuesday, we looked at the forwards putting themselves forward for Lions selection. Today we see which backs should start learning the words to Power of Four, the fondly remembered Lions anthem.

Scrum Half

Already Packed his Spider-Bite Cream: Mike Phillips. At this juncture, no player is more inked in to the Lions test jersey than the big Welsh number nine. Not the most technically gifted, but a decent passer, his main strength is his running game and ability to link with his forwards. Plus, he’s already impressed on a Lions tour.

Work to do: Ben Youngs would be the obvious and desired deputy to Phillips – someone who offers something completely different, and a potential impact replacement late in matches, upping the pace and running tap penalties. He appears to have recovered his game after a difficult period. Danny Care mixes the good with the bad, but has had a fine season with Harlequins. You suspect Gatland would like Conor Murray in the panel as an insurance plan against Phillips, but he needs to show his best form. He needs to show greater speed off the base, but has a good pass once it gets moving.

Any bolters? Ospreys’ scrum half Rhys Webb is a smashing player, and looks the most capable of making a late burst.

Fly Half

Already Reading His Lonely Planet Guide: Johnny Sexton. With his goal-kicking yips behind him for Ireland, Johnny Sexton was one of the few successes of the Irish summer tour. Still not quite as regal in green as in blue, but we suspect Gatland is the sort of coach who’ll cajole the best out of him. Should be the test starter.

Work to do: We’re still not convinced by Rhys Priestland by a long way. Gatland seems to be a fan, though, even if he’s taken him off place-kicking duty for Wales. If Leigh Halfpenny cannot get into the side at full-back ahead of Rob Kearney, it will compromise his test credentials. Toby Flood and Owen Farrell offer slightly more stable talents than the hot-and-cold Welshman, and both will be on hand to provide solid back-up to Sexton should Gatland choose dependable place-kicking over more mercurial abilities.

Any bolters? A couple. A certain D. Cipriani will be back on English shores this season with Sale. Gatland was his one-time mentor back in the day at Wasps. It remains unlikely that the one-time next big thing will have the discipline and defensive willingness to push for a place on the tour, but how marvellous it would be if he could. The incumbent next-big-thing, George Ford is another who could make a late dash, but needs to depose Toby Flood at Leicester first.

Centres

Surfboard at the ready: The only centre who looks anything close to nailed-on is Wales’ Big Bopper Jamie Roberts. We had him in our ‘work to do’ section last year, but he has done plenty of that in the last twelve months. Hard runner, good hands, when he’s on song he’s close to unplayable; he’ll be a key man for the Lions and nigh on irreplaceable.

Work to do: Can Brian O’Driscoll see out his career with a victorious Lions tour? He would love nothing more. The old ledge-bag looked sprightly for Leinster but played a touch fast and loose in New Zealand. If his body holds together, he’ll surely do enough to make the plane. Oooooooooooohhh Manu Tuilagi and JJV Davies offer more - how shall we put this? - straight-line tendencies, but both would offer a serious threat to the Aussie gainline.

Any Bolters? Quality inside centres to offer competition to Roberts are thin on the ground, and it’s possible his understudy for Wales, Ashley Beck, will do likewise for the Lions. Performance in the Pro12 final underlined his quality.

Wings

Wine-tasting guide packed: George North. There’s no shortage of quality on the wings, with all four countries putting up quality players for examination, but the big, bruising Welshman is top of the bunch. No bosh-merchant, his skill, distribution and movement belie his monstrous physique.

Work to do: A large field. From Ireland there’s Keith Earls and Tommy Bowe. Earls’ ability to play centre could work to his advantage, and he has a Lions tour under his belt. Bowe excelled in 2009, and is Ireland’s best attacker. Wales’ other wing Alex Cuthbert (another monster) has timed his rise from obscurity to test class wing impeccably. Chris Ashton’s star has waned a little, but he’ll be looking to reassert himself at Saracens. And flying Dutchman (via Scotland) Tim Visser is in with a shout. He has only one Six Nations to show he can handle international rugby, but he only has the hopes of a nation riding on it, so no pressure, laddie.

Bolters: This is the most bolter-friendly position on the paddock; youngsters can quickly emerge and put themselves in the frame in a short space of time – it’s also a position where confidence and form have the biggest role to play, so Gatland might look past reputation and take a punt on those who are banging in tries. Christian Wade, Craig Gilroy and Charlie Sharples are just three of many to keep an eye on.

Full Back

Planning a visit to Ayers Rock: Another area of real depth for the Lions, with all four nations putting up a genuine contender. But Rob Kearney, after his annus mirabilis, is at the top of the tree. Outstanding performances on last Lions tour won’t be forgotten either.

Work to do: It’ll be at most two from three terrific international players. Leigh Halfpenny has a mule of a boot and while he isn’t the tallest, is a beautiful runner and dependable catcher. England’s Ben Foden is a shade off his 2010-11 form, but he is a handsome footballer in every sense of the word. Already making a bolt is Scotland’s Stuart Hogg, having been eventually let loose for Scotland this Six Nations. Greased lightning over the turf, his pace would be a real asset.

Any bolters: Felix Jones was mentioned in our comments section this time last year, but injury has been cruel to him. Gloucester’s lightning-fast Johnny May is an exciting talent, but can he break into the England team to make an impression?

Just Eleven Months To Go

A year out from the tour, the augurs are good. Wales ran Australia very close in the recent series, and were painfully unlucky to come out on the losing side in the latter two matches. Surely augmenting that side with a handful of daring Irish, granite-hewn Englishmen, and a giant peroxide-blonde Scot will tilt the balance? Warren Gatland has already been on one successful, albeit losing, tour and his task will be to deliver a harmonious, happy, competitive squad, similar to 2009. Therer’s usually little enough you can do on the tactical innovation side in such a short timeframe, so don’t expect too much variation on the Welsh run-hard-run-straight gameplan, with Mike Phillips directing a brutish pack of forwards and Sexton looking to bring the likes of George North and Tim Visser into play as much as possible. With quality scrummagers, no short of backrow options and plenty of good attacking threats in the backline, this is the Lions’ best chance of a series win since… ooooooh… 1997. Memo to all: don’t get injured.

Rory_Gallagher wrote:Warburton is a class player, in the RWC he was unplayable, probably the best 7 in the tournament. However, the injury excuse doesn't really work, he is just out of form. SOB played in NZ despite needing surgery, and now he is out until November at the earliest.

SOB played before the tour for Leinster though didn't he?

Wars first game back since the six nations was on tour.

He was injured even in that Leinster-Ulster game apparently. Meanwhile, Warburton claimed to be fully fit before the tour.

Rory_Gallagher wrote:He was injured even in that Leinster-Ulster game apparently. Meanwhile, Warburton claimed to be fully fit before the tour.

Game time is the key factor in the form equation mate.

Not necessarily. Many players do much better with a good break between games (like Ferris, another injury prone player).

There was a good article by Moore or someone on it a few years ago- some players, like Johnny (being injury prone and carrying a little too much muscle for his build) thrive on getting enough rest to recover and save their game for big matches. Some thrive from playing themselves in by partaking in every minute of every game (like Johnno, admittedly year two examples play in v. Different positions but they are the ones Moore used). It may well be that what is good for Warbs is not good for Ferris or SOB etc

ChequeredJersey wrote:There was a good article by Moore or someone on it a few years ago- some players, like Johnny (being injury prone and carrying a little too much muscle for his build) thrive on getting enough rest to recover and save their game for big matches. Some thrive from playing themselves in by partaking in every minute of every game (like Johnno, admittedly year two examples play in v. Different positions but they are the ones Moore used). It may well be that what is good for Warbs is not good for Ferris or SOB etc

Excellent observation CJ. You didnt get where you are today by not making excellent observations.

Apply the same observation to O' Driscoll and Henson. Then, it really goes off the scale.

It's true.

Pretty Flattered about being called young.... I'll take that one guys

As for the 7 debate. Warbs is pure class no doubt about it. However had he played a greater role in the 6N I would be singing his praises. Had he come to the 6N and blown away all the competition like he did in the RWC it would be a no brainer. Even moreso if he did a number on Pockock in the Welsh summer tour.

He didn't.

Throughout the 6N and thier respective summer tours Rennie, O'Brien and Robshaw all look like stronger candidates for the number 7 berth.

As for my Team I'm well aware I didn't pick any Welsh forwards in my Lions team, there were a few tough calls but ultimatly I feel that other players offer more in their positions.

I'll explain why here.

Healy at loose head has been destructive and intimidating in the scrum and a menace in the loose. Gethin Jenkins is a superb player and his versatility gained him a bench spot in my test 22.

Ford at hooker was a coin toss between him and Best. Since I'm Scottish and a wee bit biased..... it went to Ford.

Tighthead, Dan Cole has been brilliant and after a very Solid 6N had a great tour in South Africa, Not much between Adam Jones and Dan Cole so this was another 50-50 call.

Lock combination was an easy one for me Gray and POC. The right balance between athleticism, power, experience and passion. (no brainer)

Blindside - Lydiate is a good solid player, I remain to be convinced he is more than that. After seeing what Ferris can do this was an easy choice for me and he had to start. Against Scotland at the Aviva and Edinburgh in the HC he was IMO the differance between the 2 sides, his tackling around the fringes is ferocious and he is dangerous with the ball in hand. Croft to travel as another 6.

Openside - Rennie takes this one thanks to IMO being the stand out 7 in the 6N despite being on the side that got mullered by everyone else. I think it was Luckless Pedestrian a Welsh poster who said something along the lines of he was "A walking infringement in an invisability cloak". When they have players as good as Tipuric and Warburton at their disposal thats a hell of a compliment. Warburton to Travel too. Truth be told if Warburton regains his RWC form and Rennie stays consistant this will be a coin toss decision too.

No.8 - Sean O'Brien for this one. 1st, he has played no.8 before and has received HC MOTM in that position so he knows what he's doing. His work at the breakdown having improved hugely puts him in a position to help whoever plays 7 to counter Pockock. Denton as my other no.8 choice since again he had a stormer of a Season for Scotland and Edinburgh.

"Is this the real life? Is this just fantasy? Caught in a landslide, no escape from reality."

I wish I had said that about Ross Rennie, Radge, but I can't claim it!

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:I wish I had said that about Ross Rennie, Radge, but I can't claim it!

Meh nevermind mate It was one of you Welshies

With the back row you have selected Australia will win the breakdown hands down, Pocock will win all the ball. There is more to the game than charging with the ball in hand, you have to win the ball first. SOB number 8, he is no 8 like he is no 7 the Irish back row has been found out over the last year, yes they beat Australia in the RWC but if I remember correctly Pocock was injured and did not play (great game and win). The only way your back row will compete is in a swamp combined with a gale like the Aust v Scotland game, even then the much better team lost.

If Gatland picks your team (he won't) it will be 3-0 to Australia with bigger margins than conceded by Wales.

So who would you have glamroganalun just out of interest? I'm not sure about SOB at 8 but it seems a very useful backrow. On defence you need someone very strong to maintain their legs at the tackle and on attack you need to make sure you bury Pocock at the bottom of a ruck which principally should be Ferris' job.

I think it was JK Rowling who made the comment Radge.

glamorganalun wrote:With the back row you have selected Australia will win the breakdown hands down, Pocock will win all the ball. There is more to the game than charging with the ball in hand, you have to win the ball first. SOB number 8, he is no 8 like he is no 7 the Irish back row has been found out over the last year, yes they beat Australia in the RWC but if I remember correctly Pocock was injured and did not play (great game and win). The only way your back row will compete is in a swamp combined with a gale like the Aust v Scotland game, even then the much better team lost.

If Gatland picks your team (he won't) it will be 3-0 to Australia with bigger margins than conceded by Wales.

So we know the Welsh backrow failed 3 times against Australia.

We know the Scottish Backrow has been effective against them the last 2 times we have played them since we won the games based on a powerful forward platform that revolved around contesting the breakdown.

The English beat Australia the last time they played, and so did Ireland......

I would love for you to elaborate why you think that a backrow of Ferris, Rennie and O'Brian would lose the breakdown and contact area "hands down". Tipuric and Warburton were soundly beaten by Pockock in the summer tour. Rennie dealt with Pockock way better than any of the Welsh backrow, and the weather had nothing to do with it.

If it makes you feel better that the Rain was the Reason Scotland won against Australia, by all means hold that thought. I don't remember many Austalians saying "If it was dry we would have won." Sounds like excuses to me.

My team was populated with Welsh backs, where yoyr greatest strength lies, your forwards although good are not IMO as good as what can be offered by some of the other home nations.

Ferris at 6, Warburton at 7 and R Jones at 8. It is a balanced back row, all carry, defend, good ball winners, strong and nobody out of position. R Jones has been on top form since the RWC and adds bulk to an international team.

Warburton is out of form and needs to improve. He's not the definite pick that he once was.

I'm not convinced about R Jones. Possibly his versatility could get him in the squad, but he's not a starter.

As others have said, we need to be careful about picking players who have struggled against Australia. They certainly shouldn't make up the majority of the back row.

It's worth noting that England best Aus in Aus with a Wallaby backrow of Elsom, Pocock and Mcalmain whilst playing no recognised 'fetchers'. Croft and Moody aren't even that powerful. What they did was systematically remove the Aussie threats. That is what the Lions must do, pressure Genia (particularly at the base where he likes to take his time) and scythe down the Aussie backs before they can start flowing.

Negate the Aussie scrum and lineout (helped by Croft being a menace) and England denied the Wallabies useable ball. Genia and Cooper are only as good as the ball the receive. If they get the ball at the same time as a fleet footed flanker then they really won't get up to much.

sugarNspikes wrote:We need to be careful about picking players who have struggled against Australia.

I don't think that should come into it at all. Where would you draw the line? In a 50/50 call, would you dismiss player A because his national side has lost to Austalia and go with player B just because his national side has beaten them? Surely you get the best out of the Lions when you dismiss the players' nationality altogether.

I remember when England beat Aus at Twickenham (Yes, that glorious day) with the Croft and Moody flanks. Like you said Sam, there were no fetchers. But, Moody was all over Pocock. I think his sole job during the day was to negate Pocock and stop him from getting into rucks. There were countless times that day that I remember seeing Moody pulling Pocock out of a ruck by his feet. Everywhere Pocock went, Moody went too.

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:

sugarNspikes wrote:We need to be careful about picking players who have struggled against Australia.

I don't think that should come into it at all. Where would you draw the line? In a 50/50 call, would you dismiss player A because his national side has lost to Austalia and go with player B just because his national side has beaten them? Surely you get the best out of the Lions when you dismiss the players' nationality altogether.

To be honest, that was a bit tongue-in-cheek 'cos glamalun is being a bit rowdy

This question isn't to wind up the Welsh but a genuine question:

As the only Home Nation not to have beaten Australia in the last 2 years, would the Lions be hampered by a Test Team with a high number of Welsh players?

Can't deny that the Welsh have probably been the best Home Nation team for the past 4 or 5 years but they can't seem to get past Australia. Will this hamper the Lions?

I wouldn't have thought so. I don't buy the theory that Wales have a mental hangup when it comes to the Big Three, it's just that we don't box clever against them.

Which isn't exactly a ringing endorsement of Gatland as head coach...!

reallybored wrote:This question isn't to wind up the Welsh but a genuine question:

As the only Home Nation not to have beaten Australia in the last 2 years, would the Lions be hampered by a Test Team with a high number of Welsh players?

Can't deny that the Welsh have probably been the best Home Nation team for the past 4 or 5 years but they can't seem to get past Australia. Will this hamper the Lions?

I asked the same question before the Wales tour: https://www.606v2.com/t29598-will-wales-performance-in-oz-affect-their-lions-chances-disproportionately

It's interesting to see the replies based on Welsh expectations. Things seemed not to have changed in terms of results. But will that harm the Welsh players' chances?

No. How they individually did might though. Wales may have lost but some of their players had good tours

POC was one of the best locks in the world until he got injured recently. His problem has been staying on the field, his performances shouldn't be called into question.

Warburton has not been at his best since the RWC so to start him at 7 is purely because you are Welsh and he is Welsh, as I said in my post national bias effects us all. There are better options available at 7 (Rennie, Robshaw and SOB).

As for Ryan Jones, sure he has been playing well but with massive wealth of Talent available in the backrow will Jones Travel? Would he be picked over Healsip? Denton? Morgan? Unlikely I'd say.

I think R Jones will travel. He's my choice, ahead of Robshaw, to lead the midweek side

glamorganalun wrote:With the back row you have selected Australia will win the breakdown hands down, Pocock will win all the ball. There is more to the game than charging with the ball in hand, you have to win the ball first. SOB number 8, he is no 8 like he is no 7 the Irish back row has been found out over the last year, yes they beat Australia in the RWC but if I remember correctly Pocock was injured and did not play (great game and win). The only way your back row will compete is in a swamp combined with a gale like the Aust v Scotland game, even then the much better team lost.

If Gatland picks your team (he won't) it will be 3-0 to Australia with bigger margins than conceded by Wales.

Did you even watch the summer tour games? Did you actually see SOB against NZ? Or Rennie against Australia?

glamorganalun wrote:The only way your back row will compete is in a swamp combined with a gale like the Aust v Scotland game, even then the much better team lost.

No.

But, Moody was all over Pocock. I think his sole job during the day was to negate Pocock and stop him from getting into rucks. There were countless times that day that I remember seeing Moody pulling Pocock out of a ruck by his feet. Everywhere Pocock went, Moody went too.

Well Blue it was an old Tigers tactic, no one man marks on a rugby field like Moody used to, probably because other players spare a thought for their health. Moody and Croft also put a lot of pressure on the Wallaby half backs and Croft's ability to chase down the Aussie backs (helped in that respect by Courtney Lawes) really made life difficult for them.

George Carlin wrote:

glamorganalun wrote:The only way your back row will compete is in a swamp combined with a gale like the Aust v Scotland game, even then the much better team lost.

No.

This looks more like a guy after many appointments in a hair recovery clinic reduced to despair with the realisation that it's too late and he will forever be bald. If only he was more positive and realised more beer money from all those savings from not needing to go to a hairdresser's.

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:Warburton has not been at his best since the RWC so to start him at 7 is purely because you are Welsh and he is Welsh, as I said in my post national bias effects us all. There are better options available at 7 (Rennie, Robshaw and SOB).

As for Ryan Jones, sure he has been playing well but with massive wealth of Talent available in the backrow will Jones Travel? Would he be picked over Healsip? Denton? Morgan? Unlikely I'd say.

The 3 guys you claim are better options than R Jones, Morgan has been found out by the England management, I am not sure he will go as he is not fit enough. Denton impressed me in his first 6N, lets see how he copes in his second 6N (like D Lydiate) and is he an 8? Heaslip he will go and is an 8, I still rate Jones a more complete player who does the donkey work well and played very well against Australia playing 6 or 8 and not a bad second row.

I put forward the guys based on track record

glamorganalun wrote:

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:Warburton has not been at his best since the RWC so to start him at 7 is purely because you are Welsh and he is Welsh, as I said in my post national bias effects us all. There are better options available at 7 (Rennie, Robshaw and SOB).

As for Ryan Jones, sure he has been playing well but with massive wealth of Talent available in the backrow will Jones Travel? Would he be picked over Healsip? Denton? Morgan? Unlikely I'd say.

The 3 guys you claim are better options than R Jones, Morgan has been found out by the England management, I am not sure he will go as he is not fit enough. Denton impressed me in his first 6N, lets see how he copes in his second 6N (like D Lydiate) and is he an 8? Heaslip he will go and is an 8, I still rate Jones a more complete player who does the donkey work well and played very well against Australia playing 6 or 8 and not a bad second row.

I put forward the guys based on track record

Rather than curent form? The Lions shouldn't be picking based on reputation or track record. The best players should travel and be on the plane way before reputation and track record come into contention.

Denton is a more natural 8, he plays 6 for Edinburgh because Talei plays 8 normally. Denton is comfortable at 6, 7, or 8 but I prefer him at 8.

Morgan has nearly a year to get fit enough- hardly difficult.

The only thing that worries me about that CJ is the same management who allowed him to be so out of shape at the Scarlets are now in charge at Gloucester. He will never be super lean because he's not built that way but he really needs to sort himself out, Waldrom has managed it (I've heard rumours that he tops the fitness charts at Tigers even though he looks like he's dying).

glamorganalun wrote:With the back row you have selected Australia will win the breakdown hands down, Pocock will win all the ball. There is more to the game than charging with the ball in hand, you have to win the ball first. SOB number 8, he is no 8 like he is no 7 the Irish back row has been found out over the last year, yes they beat Australia in the RWC but if I remember correctly Pocock was injured and did not play (great game and win). The only way your back row will compete is in a swamp combined with a gale like the Aust v Scotland game, even then the much better team lost.

If Gatland picks your team (he won't) it will be 3-0 to Australia with bigger margins than conceded by Wales.

Haha, get this guy a microphone he's hilarious.

I'm not convinced by O'Brien at 8 to be honest but he did finish the season very strongly and definitely has the attributes to play there. I would prefer an genuine 8 like Heaslip, Faletau, Denton or Morgan though.

Someone said earlier, he'd be a fantastic bench option, as he'd have an impact and covers all three positions.

As for the "even then the much better team lost." comment, come back and say that once you've beaten them twice in a row.

reallybored wrote:As for the "even then the much better team lost." comment, come back and say that once you've beaten them twice in a row.

Touche!

kiakahaaotearoa wrote:

George Carlin wrote:

glamorganalun wrote:The only way your back row will compete is in a swamp combined with a gale like the Aust v Scotland game, even then the much better team lost.

No.

This looks more like a guy after many appointments in a hair recovery clinic reduced to despair with the realisation that it's too late and he will forever be bald. If only he was more positive and realised more beer money from all those savings from not needing to go to a hairdresser's.

Amazing, Kia. Your go.

reallybored wrote:
As for the "even then the much better team lost." comment, come back and say that once you've beaten them twice in a row.

Damn why didn't I say that?!

Save it for the 6N and the Italy match Radge.

The back-row is strongly contested, but I don't see why people think we have an abundance of no.8s. On current form Heaslip and Faletau would struggle to get back into their national team, nevermind the Lions. SOB can play there, but I'm just not sure where his best position would be. Ben Morgan didn't look good in SA. Current form, Ryan Jones and Dave Denton are the starters. It's no contest ( well except between these two of course).

reallybored wrote:This question isn't to wind up the Welsh but a genuine question:

As the only Home Nation not to have beaten Australia in the last 2 years, would the Lions be hampered by a Test Team with a high number of Welsh players?

Can't deny that the Welsh have probably been the best Home Nation team for the past 4 or 5 years but they can't seem to get past Australia. Will this hamper the Lions?

We should have had that final test against Aus, but didn't for certain reasons... No point in dwelling on 'what if' though, it's done now. There are a number of outstanding individuals in the Wales team. There always has been and most years that has counted against us. Another example, Scotland are the wooden spooners but a number of their players are getting some deserved recognition. I hope the Lions selectors see that aswell and more than two Scots tour on this occassion. So to answer the question, no.

kiakahaaotearoa wrote:Save it for the 6N and the Italy match Radge.

Biatchy Kia - not worthy of you.

Ah George, it's only cos Scotland are my sentimental team. My Scottish father taught me to laugh rather than cry when given the option. Though everyone stared at me in 1991, 1995, 1999, 2003 and 2007 as if I were mad. Which I was really. Furious. Livid even.

I'm going stick my neck out now and say that Jamie Heaslip will be (once again and injury permitting) the Lions number 8 for all 3 tests.

He better pick it up so. Has been pretty poor for a while, I think he is carrying a bit of a spare tyre too.

Thomond wrote:He better pick it up so. Has been pretty poor for a while, I think he is carrying a bit of a spare tyre too.

I always thought he was a bit of a pork chop and I'm not exactly a racing snake.

Heaslip IMO will have to have to recapture his 2009 form to have a chance of displacing the excellent Denton for a number 8 slot. I also would bring Sean O'Brien as no.8 cover. Faletau was doing ok too untill a quiet 6N. Kind of in the same bracket as Warburton...... haven't seen or heard much of him since the RWC.

Thomond wrote:He better pick it up so. Has been pretty poor for a while, I think he is carrying a bit of a spare tyre too.

Was very good on the summer tour and he was excellent for Leinster in the latter part of the season. I don't buy into this, he's had a bad season buisness. Have a look at this:

http://dementedmole.com/2012/06/18/match-reaction-2-absent-friends/#more-2935

I'm just going by what I'm seeing I think he can do more than what he is doing, he has improved but he was absolute shoite for most of last year.

Have to agree with Thormond, he was pretty average for the bulk of last season. Maybe thats just in contrast to his own normally very high standards.

I certainly think between Ferris, SOB and Himself he is the weak link in the Irish Backrow.

Thomond wrote:I'm just going by what I'm seeing I think he can do more than what he is doing, he has improved but he was absolute shoite for most of last year.

But tactically if he's told to get stuck into every ruck and not to carry the ball then you're not going to see him doing much, i.e. you'll think he can do more. He has been quieter, but i'm going to trot out the DOC line here and say he does a lot of "unseen work". It stands to reason that if you have 2 fantastic ball carriers like SOB and Ferris, and one of your locks is carrying a lot of ball, then there isn't going to be as much room for him to make an impression with his carrying.

I disagree, I think he does a fair bit but he can do a lot more. You don't rate POM so I think we'll justleave it at that

Thomond wrote:I disagree, I think he does a fair bit but he can do a lot more. You don't rate POM so I think we'll justleave it at that

POM is a good player, and will only get better, he's not first choice at the moment (unless there are injuries) but I don't remember saying that I don't rate him, I said that he had a poor enough game against NZ in the first test and that Henry should get a start, but I never said I didn't rate POM.