Players you'd like to see given a crack

Well it's a quiet time on the international scene. The Rugby Championship doesn't kick off for another month and it's the off season up north.

There have been a few threads on players you'd like to see included in your 6N, Lions or 4N squads but I thought it'd be interesting to isolate a few players that you believe should be given an opportunity at the highest level.

For the All Blacks, there have been a few new faces introduced this season already. We saw the young Aaron Smith get his chance to impress, as well as Sam Cane, Brodie Rettalick, Luke Romano and Tamati Ellison. They all looked comfortable at this level and give a more rounded edge to the squad. But for me, there is still a void yet to be filled by the two year exodus of Kaino. There are names like Todd, Thomson, Vito, Messam, Whitelock to name a few that are capable of playing that position. But none fills me with any great feeling of confidence. Kaino and Thorn were a physical presence in the AB pack. If we have more or less the same players in the pack then I'd like to see us use a similar type of player so that the balance of the backrow is kept intact. So if we're going to have the leaner Sam Whitelock, we need a player of bulk and power to complement him. I think we've found that in Luke Romano. The problem is for McCaw and Read to keep playing the same roles we need a player who can dominate in the tackle and take the ball up and gain important yards.

So to me that player is Jarrad Hoeata. The problem is he's not had the same impact since coming back from injury. Another bigger problem is that for the Highlanders he is not playing at blindside flanker but at lock. When he was in the wider Canterbury squad, he didn't get any game time. So he started playing for Taranaki and there he played at blindside flanker. So it's not like it's a position foreign to him. I'm not sure how many players are allowed in the 4N squad or for the AIs but with the Argentina games or a game like Scotland in the autumn, I think it'd be the perfect opportunity to see whether he could play there. Then if all goes well, a quiet word in the ear of Jamie Joseph and you get him playing at blindside for the Highlanders. He'd be a great lineout option at the tail, he could be a threat on defence and carrying up the ball. Of all the players on the fringe like Fruean, TJ Perenara etc, this is one player I'd like to see given a crack.

Who would it be for your team?

You mention Sam Cane, who I thought looked like an outstanding prospect. I know it might seem blasphemous but how long do you think it will be before he will take McCaw's place, or is there another pretender to the crown?! Do you think McCaw will make the next World Cup?

Also with SBW off for a few years will Nonu be called upon to fill that void or are the others you are keen to see step up the plate?

For Ireland I think Dave Kearney and Ian Madigan look the most exciting young players who are ready to make the step up.

Both could could inject fresh life and energy into a stale and aging backline. Craig Gilroy is pushing hard too.

I'd be tempted to throw runner up U-20s player of the tournament JJ Hanaran straight into the Ireland training squad too, despite not featuring much for Munster. Looks a special talent and the quicker hes exposed to the top level the better.

Chris Henry is playing himself very close to a spot in the 22 and Dan Tuohy did enough on tour to retain a bench spot when O'Connell returns.

after Nonu, who else is there competing for the 12 shirt? Can't think of one that springs to mind? Unless they consider Carter and Cruden 10/12. A few 13s kicking around to replace Conrad like Kahui, Fruean, Ellison. Maybe Ben Smith at 12, but he is no spring chicken

DG I think Nonu still has a lot to contribute. He needed a break from having played non-stop rugby throughout last year. Hopefully he'll come back not only refreshed but hungry. I think with Aaron Smith at halfback and Nonu running flat, he can create havoc. He might not have the short offloads of SBW but he has a bullet and accurate long pass and that presents just as much danger on attack. If Smith is at 13, then it makes sense to have someone like Nonu there. I like the look of Tamati Ellison. He's a similar player to Smith in that he's not much physically to look at but he's deceptively strong and quick. Fruean needs to sharpen up on defence and take better options on attack particularly when he makes a line break. But he can be one for the future.

I have to admit I was impressed by Cane. He's very young still so he's got to learn a lot still. To me players like him allow the likes of Conrad Smith or Richie McCaw to be managed properly. Often these players have had to play full games because there wasn't much confidence on the substitutes. But now Carter, McCaw, Smith can afford to be rested for key matches by employing more these types of players. I think McCaw et al can still make the 2015 RWC so long as they don't play too many games. You want to balance keeping combinations together with resting players. Using the bench is a way of doing that. Too often I think coaches empty the bench because they fear criticism for not using it. But there has to be more thinking behind it than that. Hoeata for example is someone who could cover lock and blindside flanker on the bench. Bring him on and give him game time at blindside would be a good option. Then start him against a lesser team with some experienced cover for him on the bench.

Bathite, I would never consider Cruden or Carter at 12. They are specialist flyhalves and play best in that position. But you're right about Nonu's cover. Ellison could well play there but I don't like the balance of him and Smith together. Ellison and Fruean makes for a better balance.

Messam already have a big game at blindside. He was play to a level I didn't see before with his aggression.

What about some player from the 7's team? Can you imagine DJ Forbes play on the flank?

For England, there are the obvious ones such a George Ford, Heathcote, etc who all just need a little time to develop there game a while longer in the premiership, but will undoubtedly represent England at some point.

In the near future, I'd like to see Johnny May given a start in the full matchday squad. Matt Garvewy also, could be the missing enforcer we need. My curve ball choice would be Luke Wallace. Even though there is so much competition in the backrow at the moment, and there may be a few guys more 'game ready' than him, I think the lad is pretty special. Watching him in the 7s, he was pretty damn good. Great turnover ball, and a brilliant link man. A very good prospect.

rodders where would you put Madigan and Kearney? They both can play fullback can't they. Kearney can play wing and Madigan is also a flyhalf or a halfback? Any players you'd like to see at halfback and centre which seem problem positions for Ireland?

AWOP I think Messam had a good game. But how much of that was down to the Irish performance? He has sevens experience but DJ Forbes is too old to experiment with now. We need someone who can grow into the role.

Should the RFU try to enter a team to the SXV? and base the player off-shore? In my mind this will give more players exposure early to rugby at the higher standard and expose to a skill set not found in ENG.

Look how well Haskell play after he is train up a big by the Highlanders.

Project players could be put to a Saxons team who play the SH season to develop. I think it will add interest to the competition and improvements for ENG.

kiakahaaotearoa wrote:AWOP I think Messam had a good game. But how much of that was down to the Irish performance? .

You ask the wrong question Kia! Should be ask "How much was the Irish Performance down to Messam"? !

In the first two games Ireland shade the breakdown, but early on in G3 Messam was smashing in tackles and hitting breakdowns and clear out the rucks and particularly target Cian Healy. Healy cause so many problems for NZ in the first two games with his big upper strength he was act like some kind of super-7 despite start as the prop! but in this one he went quiet and eventually get injury because Messam follow him around and keep smash him from ruck to ruck. It was some great display and worth watch the game and track him if you didn't already. He was sent out with the mission and accomplish this with some great fervor! Kaino would have been proud.

Nonu has worked hard on his passing game as you mention and the threat of Dagg/Guildford/Savea etc hitting the line at pace to one of his flat passes is something that would add to the All Black's attacking threat.

Heard that Smith was the fittest player in the squad so hopefully he can make 2015. As you say if McCaw is managed properly then hopefully he can make it as well and with Cane as understudy over the next few years even if he doesn't, you have a ready made replacement.

I would say Dagg is a dead cert but it will be interesting to see who occupies the wing spaces in the forthcoming rugby championship...

Well good point AWOP. Healy was definitely the pick of the Irish players for me. I think that team who played the 3rd test deserve a start. But I'm also thinking of the future. Vito is not an option at 6. His pace makes him an asset at 7 or 8. Thomson offers up different assets but in terms of the balance of the backrow we lose out to having someone smashing players out the way.

Bringing up Dagg DG you remind me of another player I'd like to see get given a crack: Andre Taylor. To me he's a better option worth investing time in for Ben Smith. Smith is a poor man's Corey Jane without the huge fend and the gift of taking the right options. Andre Taylor offers up that something special on attack so would be ideal to have as a utility back option.

I will keep an eye out for him. Have not been able to watch as much Super XV as I would have liked this year. The depth of talent in the back line out there is something that we English can only dream of.

Maitland! I can't believe Guildford get some many chances and Maitland so few. He is a thinking player and also very lightening fast.

Agree on Andre Taylor. Also TJ Perenara.

Isn't Maitland off up north AWOP? In which case, no point in investing time in him. I would rather invest time in Savea than Guildford anyway. I too think Guildford is an honest player who tries hard to get himself involved. But I think Gear and Jane should be the specialist wings and then have Taylor or Savea tried out against weaker sides.

Maybe he does. But maybe if he was put to the team when he deserved it he wouldn't be going. Perhaps.

I also worry about Andre Taylor take up some big contract. But some log jam for places taken up by undedicated player like SBW.

I like Guildford's top end speed but just see Jane as a better all round player. I remember watching Savea a few years ago at the JWC and thinking he was astonishing, glad he has come through. Between Savea, Jane, Gear, Taylor (apparently), Kahui, Toeava there are some great options. Will be interesting to see what combinations Steve Hansen goes with.

Perhaps yes AWOP. Fruean could be another player targeted like Maitland. It's a difficult balance trying to include players and offer them carrots to stay put whilst putting out your best squad. Thankfully Hosea Gear stayed put.

I can't wait to see johan Goosen in a Springbok team.

He played half the Super rugby matches before getting injured, and he is still our top flyhalf on general playing stats.

The thing about him is he hasn't yet been stifled by over coaching and uses his natural talent and vision to play the game, he is electric from a standstill, has a very good eye for a gap, enough pace to outstrip defenders, looks for the attacking opportunity when it arises.

Then he has a bigger boot and more accurate boot than Steyn.

His only area of improvement is his defence, his tackling completion was the lowest of the other SA fly halves.

He can revolutionise the way SA attacks with their backline, and having Frans Steyn next to him, with William Small Smith/ Jan Serfontein next to Frans will give us the most creative backline for 3 decades

If you Photoshop him in a Bulls shirt and send it to Meyer do you think he could be selected Biltong ahead of Morné Steyn? Hope so as suddenly the Bok backline would look a lot more menacing on attack.

kiakahaaotearoa wrote:Perhaps yes AWOP. Fruean could be another player targeted like Maitland. It's a difficult balance trying to include players and offer them carrots to stay put whilst putting out your best squad. Thankfully Hosea Gear stayed put.

I think NZ can support another team, somwhere between first and "A" team. They could base in NH and playing against Saxons and France B and Ireland B to the churchill cup whilst the A team play in the pacific nation and all blacks do the normal thing.

I'm worried about 6 too. Plus our hookers are getting a bit long in the tooth. That could be a good thing though as I felt that neither Hore or Mealamu would have made many World XVs. Agree with Kia in that Vito isn't physical enough for a 6 and neither is Thomson. Hoeata could be a go but I also like the idea of McCaw moving to 6 in a season or two. I'm surprised Blackadder hasn't gone for a McCaw Todd Read trio yet. Richie could do a Michael Jones and I actually back his physicality over the other two.

I used to think Jane was so crap when he started but then he just proved me wrong time and time again. He takes so many right options and sets up tries brilliantly. He is also a complete footballer. The big thing is X factor though and he has that as well-it's a must for an AB back three player. That fend along with Carter's is the best in the game and add that to how he attacks space and he really is a superb and underrated player.

Nonu had to know SBW was leaving-if not I may have left if I were him. He's damn near the best 12 going around anyway. Brilliant distribution.

I really like Maitland and would have him on the right wing in case Jane gets hurt. Another complete footballer who'd to justice to the jersey IMO. I don't like Guildford and Ben Smith is too average for tests. Don't like Toeava as he has jugs for hands. Savea or Gear on the left for mine.

If Messam can be as dominant against South Africa then by all means stick with him. Trouble is he never has been.

I think players like Matt Stevens have had enough drugs without giving them crack as well!!!

biltongbek wrote:I can't wait to see johan Goosen in a Springbok team.

Agree with you there Biltong. He looks to be an extraordinary prospect. Unbelievable stats, and possesses all the tools and skills required to have a flourishing international career.

Disney I think Hika Elliot has proven he can replace Hore and Mealamu. He seems very solid all round with throwing, scrum and general play. I think props are more of a concern though there are options there too.

I agree though that it's strange that McCaw has played at 8 yet not at 6. It's nice to know in Cane there is a valid option for fetcher.

bluestonevedder wrote:

biltongbek wrote:I can't wait to see johan Goosen in a Springbok team.

Agree with you there Biltong. He looks to be an extraordinary prospect. Unbelievable stats, and possesses all the tools and skills required to have a flourishing international career.

Well I am hoping against hope that he will be able to play before the AI's, it will be great if he could tour Europe and show us whether he can make the step up, he certainly will change the way we attack with our backline, these damn forward pods will hopefully disappear or only be used when defences are organised and we need to draw a few defenders in.

A 10 who poses a genuine running threat is quite rare these days. Carter with his fend can glide through gaps, Cooper has his step to help him out but besides those two it is rare to see a fly half who has out and out gas. I wonder if that is just because they are better utilised elsewhere where their pace can have more of an impact. Often the 10 channel is very clogged for the first couple of phases. Having someone with speed off the mark to make use of the gaps that develop after 4/5/6 or even more phases makes such a difference.

Disney I can't believe you saying Mealamu would not be in a world XV. He would be one of the first to the sheet for me!

He is a great Hooker and also manage to do a good job carrying with his low gravity and has a natural leader personality.

Ahead of Bismarck?

Well one has won a RWC and the other not! Bismarque has a lot of potential but he is more fundamental and not bring so much else. He need to grow into a more experience player first then I would considering.

dgttaylor wrote:A 10 who poses a genuine running threat is quite rare these days. Carter with his fend can glide through gaps, Cooper has his step to help him out but besides those two it is rare to see a fly half who has out and out gas. I wonder if that is just because they are better utilised elsewhere where their pace can have more of an impact. Often the 10 channel is very clogged for the first couple of phases. Having someone with speed off the mark to make use of the gaps that develop after 4/5/6 or even more phases makes such a difference.

I think Cruden fits that bill very well.

Agreed, he slipped my mind. If anything he offers more of an attacking threat than Carter but would suggest that Carter is still the more complete player and will hold on to his spot for the forseeable future. Not a bad back up to have though!

Whatever happen to Slade? After his disaster in the RWC he has disappear from the radar. Personally I think his style is out of date, but I am more interest in how he just disappear.

I'm no expert, but think Cruden is protected a little bit on defense. Carter on the other hand gets in amongst it. Still, AB supporters would have to be happy with how Cruden has been tracking.

Slade's probably still having nightmares AWoP, poor bugger.

Injury again took him out of the Super XV AWOP and now he too is another player who is cursed by injury. He was fiddled around with at fullback and on the wing and he pretty much lost all his confidence after his impressive Sydney debut. Cruden is now the obvious incumbent and Barrett is someone able to fill in as well and looks undaunted at test level. I think our cover at flyhalf has well and truly been sorted.

anotherworldofpain wrote:Whatever happen to Slade? After his disaster in the RWC he has disappear from the radar. Personally I think his style is out of date, but I am more interest in how he just disappear.

He's missed most of the Super XV with a broken ankle. After missing most of last year's comp with 2 broken jaws too

2 broken jaws?!! That's terrible luck- poor guy!

bluestonevedder wrote:2 broken jaws?!! That's terrible luck- poor guy!

Yep. He broke it early on last season (possibly even in pre-season), then broke it on the other side in his comeback match. Glass jaw all right.

Blimey, that's terrible. Must have been close to an entired year of liquid meals. How disgusting.

Think the bone in his leg poked out a little bit to didn't it? Really just have to feel for the guy. Leg breaks aren't too bad to come back from, so he'll be back for more (rugby not injuries hopefully).

kiakahaaotearoa wrote:Isn't Maitland off up north AWOP? In which case, no point in investing time in him. I would rather invest time in Savea than Guildford anyway. I too think Guildford is an honest player who tries hard to get himself involved. But I think Gear and Jane should be the specialist wings and then have Taylor or Savea tried out against weaker sides.

Pls tell me that this means he is coming to Scotland? Sadly I suspect that you mean he is heading to Japan

I'm not really sure where he's going ASBO. I just seem to recall hearing that he was leaving NZ. He's no Chainsaw but no doubt you'd find a happy home for him on the right wing to play alongside McVisser.

kiakahaaotearoa wrote:I'm not really sure where he's going ASBO. I just seem to recall hearing that he was leaving NZ. He's no Chainsaw but no doubt you'd find a happy home for him on the right wing to play alongside McVisser.

kia, he'd be perfect for us, and I've always hoped he'd succumb to the country of his father's birth, but was worried that he would hold out for a shot at the ABs - he did after all reject Scotland in 2010, but times move on, so that could be very exciting news for us

I feel for Slade but I don't think that he made the transition to tests with as much aplomb as Cruden who seems to be getting better and better. Mind you playing in a World Cup Final I'm sure will give him more confidence to express himself as the tests he plays won't have the shadow of King Kong on our backs any more.

Bismarck for me, Smit in his heyday I'd have picked instead of Keven. Just don't feel that he's ever been the out and out pick for best 2 in the world. He's not terrible by any means, maybe it's because I grew up watching Fitzpatrick and I got used to that standard. Still have nightmares about Oliver's throwing though.

I'd like to see more goalkickers step up as that means we can leave Piri in KFC.

Well if it doesn't work out for you with Maitland ASBO I have a Scottish father. I could be the answer to your problems at flyhalf. Then again I might make you wish for the good times of Dan Parks.

Dagg tried out goal kicking in the Ireland series. I too feel Weepu's time has finished in his current shape, i.e. like a KFC bucket. Cruden as backup and I think the experience of Ellis and a future option of TJ Perenara and we're finally looking good for halfbacks with A Smith as the incumbent.

Is George Whitelock not an option at 6 for the All Blacks? He looks like a fairly physical option who can consistently take the ball forward, put in some big hits, and force the turnover. I thought he looked very good in the past two games for the Crusaders.

If not you can wait for Henry Whitelock who will probably be along soon.

Do you mean Luke Whitelock?

I thought they name them like Cyclones. After George will be Henry, or Harry...