Players you'd like to see given a crack

First topic message reminder :

Well it's a quiet time on the international scene. The Rugby Championship doesn't kick off for another month and it's the off season up north.

There have been a few threads on players you'd like to see included in your 6N, Lions or 4N squads but I thought it'd be interesting to isolate a few players that you believe should be given an opportunity at the highest level.

For the All Blacks, there have been a few new faces introduced this season already. We saw the young Aaron Smith get his chance to impress, as well as Sam Cane, Brodie Rettalick, Luke Romano and Tamati Ellison. They all looked comfortable at this level and give a more rounded edge to the squad. But for me, there is still a void yet to be filled by the two year exodus of Kaino. There are names like Todd, Thomson, Vito, Messam, Whitelock to name a few that are capable of playing that position. But none fills me with any great feeling of confidence. Kaino and Thorn were a physical presence in the AB pack. If we have more or less the same players in the pack then I'd like to see us use a similar type of player so that the balance of the backrow is kept intact. So if we're going to have the leaner Sam Whitelock, we need a player of bulk and power to complement him. I think we've found that in Luke Romano. The problem is for McCaw and Read to keep playing the same roles we need a player who can dominate in the tackle and take the ball up and gain important yards.

So to me that player is Jarrad Hoeata. The problem is he's not had the same impact since coming back from injury. Another bigger problem is that for the Highlanders he is not playing at blindside flanker but at lock. When he was in the wider Canterbury squad, he didn't get any game time. So he started playing for Taranaki and there he played at blindside flanker. So it's not like it's a position foreign to him. I'm not sure how many players are allowed in the 4N squad or for the AIs but with the Argentina games or a game like Scotland in the autumn, I think it'd be the perfect opportunity to see whether he could play there. Then if all goes well, a quiet word in the ear of Jamie Joseph and you get him playing at blindside for the Highlanders. He'd be a great lineout option at the tail, he could be a threat on defence and carrying up the ball. Of all the players on the fringe like Fruean, TJ Perenara etc, this is one player I'd like to see given a crack.

Who would it be for your team?

Too be honest...i think England are in danger of bringing in TOO many new youngsters and kids.

It was a very inexperienced side down in SA...that came away with some pro's and cons....

I'd like to see us keeping moving the way we are and give these youngsters a chance to bond at this level..into a team...with Flood at 10 though. Im not convinced with the Farrell experiement...he's not ready - or good enough.

Who i'd like to see given a crack...well for me the single biggest area is second row....so i'd like to see Attwood, Garvey, Lawes, Launchbury...ie an in form second row with the power, size and skills to make the spot their own given a shot.

Gavin Henson!!

oh sorry, i thought you said smack??!

Rene Ranger.
Send him to Canterbury and watch him go!
Ashton who?

Gunner wrote:
Ashton who?

Actually, it's just Ashton. Since that is his surname. It would be 'Chris who?', but not 'Ashton who' since there is no further part to his name.

bluestonevedder wrote:

Gunner wrote:
Ashton who?

Actually, it's just Ashton. Since that is his surname. It would be 'Chris who?', but not 'Ashton who' since there is no further part to his name.

Beware of RANGER DANGER!

Gunner wrote:

bluestonevedder wrote:

Gunner wrote:
Ashton who?

Actually, it's just Ashton. Since that is his surname. It would be 'Chris who?', but not 'Ashton who' since there is no further part to his name.

Beware of RANGER DANGER!

Haha, I actually quite like that.

No to Ranger
No to Fruean
No to B Smith
Yes to A Taylor
Yes to TJ Perenara
Yes to Ellison
Yes to Tamifuna
Yes to M Todd

No to Hika Elliot

NZ need a 2 and a 6

There is a lot of depth in New Zealand Rugby but alot of it is raw,Maitland has he definitly stated he`s Away.Thought he was back after injury had a very good game versus the Force.Cory Jane is there because of his ability under the high ball which is a bit defensive,he is also of course a great attacker.Wing is not exactly a weak area for the AllBlacks with Guildford,Gear,and Savea as a longer term option.Slade has had a dreadful run of injuries two broken jaws,then a season finishing ankle injury.Frankly he`s been dumped on used to cover wing and fullback,not given a run at any time pre RWC no wonder he was a bag of nerves.When he seemed to be settling bring on Weepu to 10 and take the goal kicking duties too.WOW that really builds confidence dose`nt it Crudon was a mess when he started at test level.It must have been nice slotting into a RWC side when most of the back line 9.12,13,14 were his Huricane team mates.
McCaw past it?what Planet are you inhabiting he has been in storming form at 7 or 8 recently.Luke Cane and Matt Todd may be the future Pocock would have them for Break fast.There seem to 3 or 4 very promising hookers in Nz but Owen Franks,Mealamu/Hore,Woodcock are as good as any currently in world rugby.Whitelock and Romano arn`t so dusty either. Kaino `s gone get used to it
the other candidates will adapt there game at 6.Read could easily revert to 6 with Thomson or Vito at 8 and RM at 7.Nonu is the starting 12 but players like Crotty or Adam Whitelock are solid at 12 or 13 .The Crusaders Backline is solid rather than brimming with stars but with the platform there forwards give them there lethal.

Ranger is off to France anyways lads, so don't worry about it!

rodders wrote:For Ireland I think Dave Kearney and Ian Madigan look the most exciting young players who are ready to make the step up.

Both could could inject fresh life and energy into a stale and aging backline. Craig Gilroy is pushing hard too.

I'd be tempted to throw runner up U-20s player of the tournament JJ Hanaran straight into the Ireland training squad too, despite not featuring much for Munster. Looks a special talent and the quicker hes exposed to the top level the better.

Chris Henry is playing himself very close to a spot in the 22 and Dan Tuohy did enough on tour to retain a bench spot when O'Connell returns.

Agree with all of that Rodders I'd think the Irish backs need a bit of a reshuffle and add in a bit more power while maintaining pace.

Here are three backlines I wouldn't mind seeing:

Reddan-Sexton
BOD-Bowe
Earls-Kearney-Gilroy

Murray-Madigan-Kearney Jr

or

Reddan-Madigan
Sexton-BOD
Gilroy-Kearney-Bowe

Murray-Earls-Kearney Jr

or

Reddan-Sexton
Fitzgerald-BOD
Earls-Kearney-Bowe

Murray-Madigan-Gilroy

Why no to Hika Eliot nganboy just out of interest?

Pete personally I'd like to see Fitzgerald come in at 12 but I think he's been shuffled round at wing and fullback too much to see that happen. But I remember him being the only point of reference on attack in Ireland a few years ago when there was another meek Ireland capitulation where tactics of sitting back and see how many times the ABs could crack the line seemed to be the tactics. Maybe Fitzgerald stood out more because of that but injury and shuffling robbed him of growing into that role. Which was a shame because that was more or less the beginning of the end of D'Arcy (at least on attack) in an Irish shirt.

Yeah we are very good at letting teams play, it is an Kidney speciality. Ah well.

Have you seen Ian Madigan Kia?

He's a Leinster lad whose position is flyhalf but can also play fullback isn't he Pete? Where do you seem him playing or where would you like him to play? I have seen him on the teledeporte channel here I think but his name didn't register at the time to be honest. Would you advocate a move for Sexton to IC to accommodate Madigan?

He is a Leinster lad I think he's 23 or 24. Jumped into the Leinster first team a fair bit as Berquist got injured. He plays 10,12 and 15. When he and Sexton are on the pitch together he plays 12 and lets Sexton stay at 10.

He is still quite raw in terms of his game management which is still somewhat unproven and tactical kicking but hopefully he will get further time and show he can do well here. he is a good goal kicker but rarely kicks as Leinster also have Sexton, McFadden and Nacewa.

In terms of his strengths, he has one of the best passes in Ireland be it short or long and has the vision to find the good passes needed. He is also very fast, one of the fastest 10's I've ever seen along with Cipriani and some others. These two traits mean that he can run on to the ball and absolutely charge at the line ball in two hands fixing men but he has the skills to be able to pass the ball going at such speed and pass it quickly and accurately. Loves running switches and then developing in to dummy switches to screen pass.

Could end up at 12 for Leinster in the big HCup games with Sexton at 10 and possibly could get a call up to the Irish Squad for the 6n

Ah didn't know he plays 12 as well. Well that could be a solution. D'Arcy and BOD are a force on defence but to me at the expense of attack. Put Madigan in between the experience of BOD and Sexton and it's worth a crack no doubt. What's clear is the centre partnership needs a solution.

Yeah I am with you on that.

What kiwi lads do you wanna see out? Thought Cane and Savea both did pretty well. The new scrummie was easily the find of the bunch though right?

Yeah Aaron Smith looked very composed and accomplished. Hopefully he isn't one of these players who makes a big splash in his first few games and then gets found out by the opposition. No doubt he faces some stern opposition. But a pass like that and finally we have what we're looking for in terms of quick ruck ball. Add in TJ Perenara as a young lieutenant and the future looks good there.

Luke Romano looks promising too. Brad Thorn has big shoes to fill but this kid has big feet of his own.

As I mentioned earlier Andre Taylor deserves a crack instead of Ben Smith. Will be interesting to see the front row players coming through as well.

Your "weak point" (locks) looked pretty good too. Fair play to ye

Who i'd like to see given a crack...well for me the single biggest area is second row....so i'd like to see Attwood, Garvey, Lawes, Launchbury...ie an in form second row with the power, size and skills to make the spot their own given a shot.

I wouldn't mind seeing Ed Slater get a go. He's a big boy that has come on an awful lot and is a really good all rounder despite being predominantly an enforcer style lock he can also play 6 and 8 due to his mobility, work rate and carrying ability. I didn't the game but I heard he copped a YC in the Saxons loss to Scotland which might count against him, depends whether it was a team one, he was trying to do too much at the breakdown or, he decided to front up and take on the Scots.

Joe Simpson needs to be given a go and I'd like to see both Kvesic and Abbott from Worcester given a run out in the Saxons. Combine those two with Gibson and that would be a backrow to cause problems, particularly if Wallace was on the bench.

Agree with all of that Rodders I'd think the Irish backs need a bit of a reshuffle and add in a bit more power while maintaining pace.

Here are three backlines I wouldn't mind seeing:

Have you Ireland boys got a warm up fixture before the games against the big boys in the AIs? If so I'd have thought something like this would be worth a go:

9.Reddan
10.Sexton
11.Earles
12.McFadden
13.Cave
14.Zebo
15.Madigan

The centres and wings should offer enough in defence and attack not to be shown up at this level and most tier 2 nations that offer opposition in the AIs (namely the PI boys) tend not to have particularly technical kicking games so Madigan would get to ease his way into international rugby without the pressure of playing 10 straight away. Needless to say an additional playmaker for a right/left attacking platform is always handy.

[quote="formerly known as Sam]
Joe Simpson needs to be given a go and I'd like to see both Kvesic and Abbott from Worcester given a run out in the Saxons. Combine those two with Gibson and that would be a backrow to cause problems, particularly if Wallace was on the bench.[/quote]

That's an interesting backrow Sam. Why do you think it would be so good? have to admit, I wasn't impressed by Gibson at all on the summer tour, or in the barbarans games prior to the tour. THought he was good for Irish, but failed to transfer this to international. Abbott deserves a chance in the Saxons at least- he's a consistently quality player.

I like the ability of Gibson to mix his game up, he isn't really up to international speed so the Saxons is a good place for him. He offers a good work rate, carrying option and some abaility at the breakdown as does Kvesic making them a handy 6/8 combo (Gibson 6 and Kvesic 8). They'll provide a thorn in the side for most opposition and shifts in strategy are easily obtainable. They are both raw but Saxons experience could mould them nicely.

Abbott I like because he is the kind of 7 you don't see for large parts of the game as you are too busy watching your team attack with decent possession. If he played for a more glamourous team then we'd have heard an awful lot more about him by now.

I'm not sure Madigan has played 15 for Leinster so playing 15 for ireland could be unwise. We have a game against Fiji and if he doesn't start 10 Kidney will find himself in the sights of the assassin I will have hired

pete (buachaill on eirne) wrote:I'm not sure Madigan has played 15 for Leinster so playing 15 for ireland could be unwise. We have a game against Fiji and if he doesn't start 10 Kidney will find himself in the sights of the assassin I will have hired

I hear ROG has hired an assassin of his own to ensure that Madigan doesn't play against Kidney.

We aren't sure whether he is targetting Madigan himself or simply threatening Kidneys family. Only one thing is sure - ROG will play against Fiji!!