England v South Africa, The Oval, 1st Test Thread

[Duty281]

First topic message reminder :

Here we go then, England v South Africa at The Oval where the battle for Number 1 will commence. A win or draw in the series for England will see them retain that coveted spot whereas South Africa need a series win to take the crown. This will be a true battle of the World's two best Test teams. Here are the lineups:

1 Andrew Strauss (capt), 2 Alastair Cook, 3 Jonathan Trott, 4 Kevin Pietersen, 5 Ian Bell, 6 Ravi Bopara, 7 Matt Prior (wk), 8 Tim Bresnan, 9 Graeme Swann, 10 Stuart Broad, 11 James Anderson

England bat down to 10 with the formidable Cook opening (made 294 less than 12 months ago), KP (who walks into any team at the moment) and the best WK batsmen in the game, Matt Prior (averages over 40 and he bats at 7). Add the fact that their probable No.8 bats with an average over 40! England have probably the best all-round bowling attack in the game - 2 World-class quicks, a World-'class spinner and a very good all-rounder in Tim Bresnan who averages over 40 with the bat and under 30 with the ball. One weak link though, Ravi Bopara.

1 Graeme Smith (capt), 2 Alviro Petersen, 3 Hashim Amla, 4 Jacques Kallis, 5 AB de Villiers (wk), 6 Jacques Rudolph, 7 JP Duminy, 8 Vernon Philander, 9 Dale Steyn, 10 Morne Morkel, 11 Imran Tahir

7 specalist batsmen which includes the best no.3 in the World and the best all-rounder seen in this era. There's also Graeme Smith and De Villiers who both average a shade under 50. Then the best fast bowling attack in the World, Steyn (best bowler in the World), Morkel and Philander (average of 14.15 in 7 Tests). Weak links? Petersen isn't the best opener, Boucher the usual WK is injured and Tahir is far from the best spinner in the World.

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My series prediction: 2-0 England.

Enjoy the game!

[GSC]

Generally our batsmen make contributions that low down the order, rather than big scores.

[gboycottnut]

Sky's sky high prices sure weren't worth the tiny amount i watched.

And you now have the extra benefit of not giving that nice Mr M and his family any money

Sky apparently are giving away a FREE weekend's pass of Sky Sports viewing starting from tomorrow, which means that many of us who are currently Sky Subscriber's but who don't shell out for the extra cost to have a Sky Sports package can at last enjoy some live test cricket this summer.

[liverbnz]

What I find frightening is South Africa having SEVEN specialist batsmen in their current XI for this first test match. England's bowlers are sure going to have to bowl extremely well if they are to bowl South Africa out consistently for under 400 runs an innings throughout this summer's test series.

It is till you see England number 7 and 8 both average noticeably higher than SA's 6 and 7, and that they have a 9 with a test century under his belt and even the 10 averages over 20.

Ifd argue Englands batting is deeper as they are only carrying one questionable batsman (Bopara) , SA 3 ...and England are much stronger from 8 down.

England's batting strength and quality from number 8 down to number 11 is vastly overrated. In the recent England V West Indies test series, not 1 of the England batsmen batting in the lower order managed a score over 70. In contrast the West Indies had 2 players who managed to score innings of 70+ runs in an innings. Sammy in the second test, and Tino Best in the third test.

So 1 Test series defines England's lower order?

[trebellbobaggins]

that's handy. certainly worth having a gander.

if have the basic package at the mo though am soon going to sky free.

certainly is nice not to be another Mr M contributer. I shall miss Game of Thrones next year though.

[mystiroakey]

Just DL the game of thrones trebbs

[skyeman]

Eng 100 and 100 partnership up. Run a minute cricket after lunch, SA not (at the moment) looking like the best Test bowling attack.

Bright conditions now, perfect for batting.

Eng 103 -1

[skyeman]

Cook on you're 50.

[Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler]

What I find frightening is South Africa having SEVEN specialist batsmen in their current XI for this first test match. England's bowlers are sure going to have to bowl extremely well if they are to bowl South Africa out consistently for under 400 runs an innings throughout this summer's test series.

It is till you see England number 7 and 8 both average noticeably higher than SA's 6 and 7, and that they have a 9 with a test century under his belt and even the 10 averages over 20.

Ifd argue Englands batting is deeper as they are only carrying one questionable batsman (Bopara) , SA 3 ...and England are much stronger from 8 down.

England's batting strength and quality from number 8 down to number 11 is vastly overrated. In the recent England V West Indies test series, not 1 of the England batsmen batting in the lower order managed a score over 70. In contrast the West Indies had 2 players who managed to score innings of 70+ runs in an innings. Sammy in the second test, and Tino Best in the third test.

So 1 Test series defines England's lower order?

About as much as it defines Tino Best as a good batsman
And how many times did Englands low order bat in the series? Twice, to West Indies five complete innings.

[Fists of Fury]

Yep, so far so good.

However, I was rather enjoying our silence on here. It's like when you're playing, never get up/change what you're doing during a big partnership.

Let's hope it doesn't cost us!

[skyeman]

Hopefully not for a very long time, but i am wondering which type of applause KP will receive when he enters the fray.

[Fists of Fury]

He will be supported. Forget the nonsense that has gone on, he is in his England shirt and batting for his country. You'd be insane to not support him. A Pietersen special would put us in a VERY strong position.

[mystiroakey]

Morkel throw us a pie or two mate!

[alfie]

Safely off 111 ...

Afternoon all

[trebellbobaggins]

so important to have steadied after that start. They did not want a repeat of the Aussie start to the Ashes.

Good we're not in the Athers era when losing the Captain like that would have meant curtains and a big "timbeeeeer".

[Fists of Fury]

Afternoon, Alfie. Steady as she goes this afternoon.

[alfie]

Pretty steady all day really ,apart from the first over...not that I've watched all of it - dividing attention with Le Tour.

Experts saying pitch very dry and might be helpful for spin later ... Sound as if Swann might have more influence than one might have expected in such a wet summer ?

[guildfordbat]

Highly frustrating day so far.

No play at all yet on day two at Trent Bridge in the Notts v Surrey match. Further inspection at 3.30. Having to make do with this one. Guess the same applies to the rest of you, eh ....

[trebellbobaggins]

alfie, TMS seem pretty certain that this'll be a lot tougher on day 4 and 5 and that it was a good toss to win as batting last might not be easy. They also reckon you need 400 first up ideally.

[skyeman]

SA can not afford to keep letting this drift along much longer. If Eng get to 180-200/1, SA will practically be out of this match.

Eng 127-1 and very comfortable.

[alfie]

alfie, TMS seem pretty certain that this'll be a lot tougher on day 4 and 5 and that it was a good toss to win as batting last might not be easy. They also reckon you need 400 first up ideally.

Guess this means you think they will need at least 500

I quite fancy England's chances if they can turn this solid start into something substantial , given the SA batsmen haven't had a lot of warm up play...of course we will need you to be on the ball with the reversing : I trust you can do that just as well on the wireless ?

[skyeman]

Trott on you're 50.

Eng 135 -1

[trebellbobaggins]

i don't know alfie. Reckon MV knows a hell of a lot more than i do.

Me, i just like to see this steady stuff. No fireworks wanted or needed right now.



and yeah i'll do my best. I think i can operate in wireless mode sometimes.

[GSC]

Haven't seen really big scores from England batsmen in a while. Like to see Cook or Trott make a really big score.

[alfie]

First day and all , but I have to say I don't think Tahir looks likely to give England's batsman too many sleepless nights.

As Warnie says , he has all the toys ... just doesn't have the control , or the presence , at this stage of his career , to impose himself on top line batsmen.

[GSC]

As you say, it is first day, 2nd session of the first test alfie. Has the ability to give England a few problems day 4/5 I suspect.

Interesting that average stat on Steyn, averages 19 vs right handers and 32 vs lefties. Cook could have some success.

[LivinginItaly]

Does anyone else think that Graeme Smith has maybe chopped and changed his bowlers a bit too much. I can understand now using the part-timers, but in the first session kallis bowled as much as steyn.

[liverbnz]

Perhaps Steyn is suffering from those niggles he has hence why he hasn't bowled as much as we'd thought he would.

[LivinginItaly]

true, looks like he has not been bowling at full pace, almost holding himself back somewhat.

[Dorothy_Mantooth]

true, looks like he has not been bowling at full pace, almost holding himself back somewhat.

Steyn has been down in pace (relatively) for a few series now.

[Fists of Fury]

This is the pace Steyn has bowled with for some time now. He did the same against New Zealand, and only really picked up his pace toward the end of that series.

[mystiroakey]

Everyone has been down on pace in england this year- i think its the weather and stuff to be fair

[LivinginItaly]

could also be the speed guns. I am always wary of comparing speeds from different speed guns as they seem to vary quite a lot. I remember one time Darren Gough saying how in australia they used to recalibrate the speed guns to make their bowlers record faster speeds than the opposition.

[liverbnz]

could also be the speed guns. I am always wary of comparing speeds from different speed guns as they seem to vary quite a lot. I remember one time Darren Gough saying how in australia they used to recalibrate the speed guns to make their bowlers record faster speeds than the opposition.

Haha! One of the Sky commentators (I think it was Hussain) mentioned a story about Gough that he was obsessed with speed guns. So much so, he refused to bowl a slower ball as it brought his average speed down.

[Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler]

Its not the speed guns, its people concentrating on line length and seam position.
Anderson full stop has bought his pace down over the last few years, and bowled better because of it.
This pitch is pretty slow an low so Steyn isnt going to bother hurling it down, he s not going to get the help from the pitch he requires to make the most of the pace.

[LivinginItaly]

Come on England. Big session now, ram home this advantage. If we loose wickets, sorry in advance it will be my fault as I have to go to work now and so can't keep watching from the same place.

[mystiroakey]

so whats gonna happen then - i predict england an innings win and declare on 650/1

[LivinginItaly]

could also be the speed guns. I am always wary of comparing speeds from different speed guns as they seem to vary quite a lot. I remember one time Darren Gough saying how in australia they used to recalibrate the speed guns to make their bowlers record faster speeds than the opposition.

Haha! One of the Sky commentators (I think it was Hussain) mentioned a story about Gough that he was obsessed with speed guns. So much so, he refused to bowl a slower ball as it brought his average speed down.

Wouldn't suprise me Goughie did have a bit if small man's syndrome (relatively speaking compared to most fast bowlers).

[Duty281]

That Strauss wicket seems a very long time ago, Cook and Trott have taken the good ship England and sailed her into clear water. May be a bit early to say this but...let's get 500+!

[mystiroakey]

Goughie has some decent figures, love him on talk sport an all. But i do believe he has abit of a 'syndrome' to be honest, he is a competitive lad

[Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler]

They should put him and Flintoff in a room together with a tin of beers and record it and use the results to fill in the rain breaks.

[mystiroakey]

yeah get em pished and throw atherton in there- id pay to watch that

[skyeman]

Definitely the World No1 here playing against the World No 3

[Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler]

Oh well they had to get one eventualy

[mystiroakey]

Dont really like the way our RR is creeping down tbh!

[Duty281]

Trott gone, really thought he could have batted till stumps. Here comes KP...

[mystiroakey]

PSW lol, watching it on sky go and am behind- nothing wrong with trott going tbh i was getting annoyed with that RR

[skyeman]

Oops Trott gone, Goooo KP.


Eng 170-2

[guildfordbat]

Highly frustrating day so far.

No play at all yet on day two at Trent Bridge in the Notts v Surrey match. Further inspection at 3.30. Having to make do with this one. Guess the same applies to the rest of you, eh ....

Slightly diappointed no one bit on this. Anyway, play starting in 5 minutes at Trent Bridge if you prefer to listen to the radio commentary for the Notts v Surrey CC match from Mark Church and the wonderfully named Dave Bracegirdle ....

[trebellbobaggins]

and as so often happens the session break leads to the loss of a wicket.

SA will fancy the breakthrough now i suspect. England have a hell of a lot to do if they want to capitalise on winning the toss.

[alfie]

So no hundred for Trott today... Ah well he has done a good job of setting the innings up.
Let us hope KP can entertain the evening watchers...not me , need some sleep.

Goodnight all.

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