England v South Africa, The Oval, 1st Test Thread

[Duty281]

First topic message reminder :

Here we go then, England v South Africa at The Oval where the battle for Number 1 will commence. A win or draw in the series for England will see them retain that coveted spot whereas South Africa need a series win to take the crown. This will be a true battle of the World's two best Test teams. Here are the lineups:

1 Andrew Strauss (capt), 2 Alastair Cook, 3 Jonathan Trott, 4 Kevin Pietersen, 5 Ian Bell, 6 Ravi Bopara, 7 Matt Prior (wk), 8 Tim Bresnan, 9 Graeme Swann, 10 Stuart Broad, 11 James Anderson

England bat down to 10 with the formidable Cook opening (made 294 less than 12 months ago), KP (who walks into any team at the moment) and the best WK batsmen in the game, Matt Prior (averages over 40 and he bats at 7). Add the fact that their probable No.8 bats with an average over 40! England have probably the best all-round bowling attack in the game - 2 World-class quicks, a World-'class spinner and a very good all-rounder in Tim Bresnan who averages over 40 with the bat and under 30 with the ball. One weak link though, Ravi Bopara.

1 Graeme Smith (capt), 2 Alviro Petersen, 3 Hashim Amla, 4 Jacques Kallis, 5 AB de Villiers (wk), 6 Jacques Rudolph, 7 JP Duminy, 8 Vernon Philander, 9 Dale Steyn, 10 Morne Morkel, 11 Imran Tahir

7 specalist batsmen which includes the best no.3 in the World and the best all-rounder seen in this era. There's also Graeme Smith and De Villiers who both average a shade under 50. Then the best fast bowling attack in the World, Steyn (best bowler in the World), Morkel and Philander (average of 14.15 in 7 Tests). Weak links? Petersen isn't the best opener, Boucher the usual WK is injured and Tahir is far from the best spinner in the World.

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My series prediction: 2-0 England.

Enjoy the game!

[LondonTiger]

wasnt timeing the ball??

Correct. All england batsmen have struggled to time it.

had luck???

Leading edge that just looped over Mid on the prime example.

did you see his innings- he was fine.

Yes I did. I thought he did not look assured - he is a confidence player and I thought this was a gritty effort - let down by a god awful shot.

42 is an absoloutly fine score as well. no dramas- right spot on par

We will have to agree to disagree

[LondonTiger]

Anything over 40 is a very good contribution. All your batsmen score 40, with one going on, and you have yourself a good total.

A batting coach would be furious with every batsmen getting to 40 and only one going on. Don't get me wrong, 42 is not a bad score - but nor is it good. It is merely average.

[LondonTiger]

Just hope we can see out the last 4 overs with no drama.

[Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler]

It was a usefukl contribution but the game situation and the way he was playing meant he could have gone on to get more. Its typical KP, hes goofd enough to get away with it but he could have been a legendary batsman if he had the concentration. Like Ronnie OSullivan in snooker, for all hes achieved he couldve done more.
It was a very bad time to chuck his wicket away as well. As it is these two seem to have rode out the potential wobble, but it could easily have precipitated a collapse. It was quite obvious what SA where hoping he would do, and he did it. Getting out to such a simple trap will surely have infuriated the dressing room.
But thats KP. And he did contribute 42 runs and taking a good chunk of life out of SAs bowling. So not a disaster, just should have been more...hed done the hard bit.

[mystiroakey]

Yeah its par, its not a nothing score though is it!

[EnglishReign]

Decent stuff. Should get well into the 400's at worst, bowl SA out for 12, follow on and bowl 'em out for 7. Job done.

[ChequeredJersey]

Given a choice between KP playing his standard stupid shot at 0 or at 42, I'll take 42 every time

[Duty281]

267/3, comfortably England's day. England bat deep and thus should be expecting to reach 500+ and really put the Saffers under pressure.

Individually, the day belongs to Cook. Another unbeaten century, another majestic innings against Steyn, Morkel and Philander. Top effort, hope he goes and makes it a double. Trott will be disappointed he didn't make a century but his contribution was vitally important after England found themselves 0/1. KP's innings was also important to keep the score going but he should have made more than 42. Morkel was by far the best bowler for South Africa and Kallis was fairly decent. Tahir was poor, Steyn and Philander were fairly mediocre.

Tomorrow, England should look to make 550, declare and have a hour bowling against the South African top order tomorrow. South Africa will merely try and find a way to limit England below 400.

[Guest]

My thoughts on the day's play

Day 1:

Bright sunshine greeted the players when they arrived at the Kia Oval this morning, however toss was delayed as the dark clouds loomed, and everyone thought, here we go again! Strauss won a crucial toss and decided to bat first, knowing this was a dry pitch and would turn later on inthe day. Graeme smith looked dissapointed at losing the toss.

No suprises in either side with team selection..however it was a suprise that steyn didnt take a new ball....Saffers got off to a fantastic start with Morkel getting strauss out plumb LBW on review with the 4th ball of the day...However it all went downhill from there...Cook and Trott looked settled at the crease, with both players matching each other run for run..as they got to lunch only 1 wicket down. After lunch they continued their big partnership until Trott played a lazy drive and was caught behind to new keeper AB de Villiers. This brought KP to the crease... He looked to be calm at the crease and took him time.....however Kallis got him out caught behind going for a hook shot. He has been out playing this shot on many occasions...Philander, Steyn looked flat for the most part of the day. Bell and Cook saw england to the close as england had a fantastic day!

[Corporalhumblebucket]

Solid performance from England and Cook and Trott in particular. But plenty before needed before SA out of contention.

[mystiroakey]

The cricket so so serine today. Almost as if both teams were going through the motions. It did seem abit to easy in fairness. no disrespect to SA, but i honestly believe this england team is leagues above any other(in these conditions) and they almost only have to turn up in any format

[Corporalhumblebucket]

... no disrespect to SA, but i honestly believe this england team is leagues above any other(in these conditions) and they almost only have to turn up in any format

Mystiroakey - sounds as tho you've been employed by SA to counter the effects of Trebs?!

[mystiroakey]

yeah i know i sound abit cocky lol. but its my honest opinion. I dont believe in jinxs, but just incase at least we have trebbs

[Duty281]

Sadly, the weather looks poor for tomorrow throughout the afternoon. Then again, the weather forecast looked poor today and we got a full day's play in!

[Shelsey93]

Catching up with the thread...

If England make 250 in this innings I will eat my hat.

Is Dale Steyn 100% fit? Is he hiding an injury? I thought he would have been on with the new ball.

I think they were right to give the new ball to Morkel and Philander. Steyn has rarely bowled his best with the new nut, Philander should rightly always take the new ball (he bowled so well with it in the last three series it would be stupid not to give it to him) and they had a hunch on Morkel to Strauss which proved correct. However, I'd have got Steyn in at Trott early - perhaps in the 5th or 6th over.

Is Morkel's radar always this erratic?

Not always, but he is a rhythm bowler and so appreciates overs under his belt - something he hasn't had. Overall I though he was the pick of the bowlers though in any case.

If Tahir is "utter poop", it doesn't say much for the County Championship does it?

Tahir's Test Match struggles have definitely highlighted the difference between first-class and Test cricket. At Test level the batsmen tend to pick his googly and have more confidence to punish the (pretty regular) bad balls. Note that a lot of his Test wickets have been tail-enders - he's very difficult to face if your in any way uncertain.

A batting coach would be furious with every batsmen getting to 40 and only one going on. Don't get me wrong, 42 is not a bad score - but nor is it good. It is merely average.

True. Would be very disappointing if only one batsman got a ton on this pitch. Looking forward to Cook and Bell piling them on tomorrow - hopefully. I reckon we need 500+, as its hard to see SA rolling over.

Overall, a superb day for England. I actually thought Trott looked really good until he got out - I was backing him to go on and on and on. SA weren't really that poor. I got the impression that they were feeling their way in a bit, but only Tahir (who can be like that) was that far off where he should be.

[mystiroakey]

gonna be honest i think people are seriously undersetimating the england bowling unit if there think they cant roll SA- they can roll any team in the world and probally our own batting line up and all- i cant remeber the last bad bolwing performance from an england team in any format- that includes the UAE series as well

[GSC]

The longer we bat, the harder it will be for SA to reply. If we can, bat through tomorrow.

[Fists of Fury]

Scoreboard pressure plays a big part. We will need 500 for that to be the case, however I can't shake off the feeling that in overcast conditions this morning we are going to get bowled out for 350. That would be a disaster and put South Africa right in the match.

Probably won't offer to eat my second hat just yet, but I have a hunch.

[dummy_half]

My thoughts on the day are:
1 - Clearly England's day. The only slight negative is whether the slow run rate might count against us later in the match, especially if some time is lost to weather (although for the first time this year the forecast is improving)

2 - Despite that, I think both Trott and KP will be disappointed because of the manner of their dismissals and because these both happened at times when they looked well set and when we were getting on top of the attack. No issue with Strauss getting out - there's always a chance you'll get a decent ball before you're set. However, Trott in particular will be thinking that he could still be out there along with Cook, both with 100+ on the board.

3 - It's difficult so far to assess the SA bowling line-up, as there was so little in the pitch. All three of their main seamers produced the occasional good ball, but some loose stuff too, while Kallis isn't quite the bowler he used to be. Tahir though looks a bit mediocre at this level.

4 - It will be interesting to see what happens to the pitch over the next couple of days. Apparently the top is dry and hard, but it must be damp underneath, so there is a likelihood that it could deteriorate with the ball going through the top. Definitely a case of make the runs now and see what happens later.

[LivinginItaly]

I think even if we perform very badly and suffer a very English collapse we should still be able to add 150 for the last seven wickets. This worst case scenario would still take us up to a total of 420, which while not being enough to create real scoreboard pressure, would put us slightly ahead in the context of the game. However, hopefully we can push onto a score of 550+ and then really turn the screws on SA when it is their time to bat on a deteriorating surface.

[Ozzy3213]

Big morning session in store. If England can reach lunch at about 350 for 4 then I think it will be a long way back for South Africa. Couple of quick wickets this morning and England go in at 320 for 5, 6 or even 7, and all of sudden we have a real game on our hands.

can't wait.

[Fists of Fury]

I think just taking it in stages will be the order of the day.

First aim - reach 400. If you get there and still have a few in hand then look to reach 450, and so on. There is of course high risk of a very English collapse this morning - overcast conditions, possibly on and off for rain, fresh bowlers with a fairly new ball.

Weather reports aren't good, though, and I fear we may lose a large portion of this day to the weather.

[Ozzy3213]

Agree about taking it in stages Fists, but I would say rather than score targets that certainly Cook should be targeting intervals. Get his head down and say I am batting until lunch. If he is still there, he will have scored 30-40 runs, then after lunch aim for tea and so on. I am sure that this is what he will be doing as an individual anyway, and I think he is the key to whether we get a big score or collapse now.

[Shelsey93]

First half hour is always very important - if Cook and another go it would quickly put a different complexion on events.

Fingers crossed the showers miss the Oval. The BBC forecast is for showers for most of the day, so they will be very lucky to get a large amount of play in. Fortunately things get better from Saturday and in to next week.

[DouglasJardinesbox]

Is it my imagination, or is KP getting more criticism for his 42, than the Captain for his big fat duck? What strange times we live in....

[Fists of Fury]

KP always gets criticised, he is just one of those players that attracts it a) because of his extraordinary ability leaving the feeling that there is always more to come and b) because of his supposed air of arrogance.

Either way, 42 is a perfectly acceptable score at this level and against this quality of attack. Yes it would have been great if he had gone on, but these things happen. You can't always go on. People will be critical of the shot, but they wouldn't have if it had gone for six. There are very fine margins in cricket.

[mystiroakey]

no one expects anything from struass, i was gonna make that point earlier- but you are right. I think its time to face facts and get rid of . But then how do we measure his worth as a captain- on an individual performance or wins. Wins is all that really matters

[Fists of Fury]

Hang on...Strauss got back to back tons just last series! Let's not jump the gun! Wait until after this series before we decide whether those two tons were due to the shoddy bowling of the Windies or not.

[LivinginItaly]

True DJbox, maybe due to the manner of the dismissal than anything else. However, I think some people would criticise KP for getting out to an attacking shot even if he had broken Lara's record.

[ShankyCricket]

Strauss is in excellent form, I think but has issues against Morkel.

[liverbnz]

Hussain did an excellent feature on 3rd man yesterday on Strauss' dismissal. For anyone that didn't see it, he showed Strauss' previous dismissals to Morkel where the ball would pitch around middle and off but would swing away towards the slips. Strauss would essentially lose his off-stump and go after balls that he shouldn't or maybe play inside balls that would see him bowled. Yesterday he marked out his off-stump with his foot and played from there, however Morkel's 4th ball went straight on and Strauss was caught playing outside the line.

Hussain also explained the hurried start probably meant he wasn't settled and his footwork was affected. There was only 15 minutes between toss and start of play in which time Strauss would have 3 interviews with the BBC, Sky and Channel 5.

[dummy_half]

DJsBox

There's not really much to criticise when a batsman is got out early by a decent ball, especially when he has been producing good form in the recent past. OK, if it keeps happening then you have to start looking at why and considering whether there is a technical issue to address, but sometimes these things just happen.

I'm always more critical of batsmen who get out once they are well set at the crease but have failed to go on to make a significant contribution, especially if they get out by doing something a bit stupid - KP has a bit of a habit of this, although to be fair he is also the best batsman we have at dominating an attack, so you have to allow for the occasional error (especially when he's got 150+ on the board). I thought yesterday was particularly poor though - Kallis had just bowled a similar ball that he nearly gloved, and the ball was too close and too high for the shot KP was attempting. He could quite easily have left that one alone and waited for Kallis to bowl something up and outside off stump for him to crack away (as he did in the previous over).

I also wouldn't exempt Trott from criticism yesterday - he was well set and got out to something of a loose shot. Of course, he (unlike KP) doesn't have a reputation of doing this, and had a few more runs on the board, so is getting a bit less stick.

Both of them will however really be kicking themselves for the mistakes they made - with Cook so solid at the other end, either could and should have gone on to make a properly big score and all but take the game right away from SA. They'll both know that, and don't really need blog 'experts' like us telling them so.

[Cowshot]

Morning all.

And Cook is out bowled. Steyn getting swing. Now, this is a crucial time. Need Bell and Bopara to really dig in.

[skyeman]

Crap, Cook gone. Just what Eng did not need.

Bops please prove me wrong, but i see him out soon.

[ChequeredJersey]

Ah feck

[Mike Selig]

400 isn't certain by any means. Intriguing morning.

Cook gone, bowled by Steyn, a hint of swing and a fairly loose shot from Cook so early in the day.

Bopara with an excellent chance to show his worth.

[Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler]

Can we go back to hating Bopara again now please?

[skyeman]

Hate to say it

[liverbnz]

Oh dear Ravi! That was a pretty horrible looking dismissal.

[Fists of Fury]

England are doomed. We are going to lose this Test.

[trebellbobaggins]

The match has turned on its head now. Eng deep in trouble way short of par.

Advantage SA.

Bops is another ramps isn't he. All the talent but no head for real pressure.

Can't see SA losing this now, they should get 500 and have England out cheep,y again then chasing a poor total.

This will set them up for the series.

[Duty281]

Right this has all gone wrong. Cook was a tad unlucky and Bopara has shown why I, and many others, don't want him in the Test team. The game's changing. 267/3 to 272/5. Let's at least get to 450, it's a flat deck.

[trebellbobaggins]

I grimaced when people here were getting a bit cocky and talking of 500 and big centuries yesterday, too used to the way we fail unde r pressure from good bowlers. Did we forget Pakistan so quickly?

[Duty281]

Bell, Prior, Bresnan, Broad and Swann need to get us a combined total of 178 runs and we should be relatively comfortable.

[mystiroakey]

we will get past 500 no dramas

[ChequeredJersey]

Steyn shows why he's number one...

We need one of Bell, Prior, Broad or Bressie to make a score here. Luckily they can all bat

[Fists of Fury]

No chance, we can barely get it off the cut strip. Typical English batting performance...so much promise followed by utter tripe.

[skyeman]

Hate to say it to the Bop fans but in Tests he has the Ramprakash syndrome.

We told you, he will be forever too nervy.

[Fists of Fury]

Steyn has been given two wickets, both gift wrapped and handed to him on a gold platter.

[trebellbobaggins]

Exactly right. It's why we won't hold world number one. We're simply too weak meant all even though we have the talent. Can you imagine the great Aussie sides letting you Off the hook like this? It's a bit of a shame.

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