England v South Africa, The Oval, 1st Test Thread

[Duty281]

First topic message reminder :

Here we go then, England v South Africa at The Oval where the battle for Number 1 will commence. A win or draw in the series for England will see them retain that coveted spot whereas South Africa need a series win to take the crown. This will be a true battle of the World's two best Test teams. Here are the lineups:

1 Andrew Strauss (capt), 2 Alastair Cook, 3 Jonathan Trott, 4 Kevin Pietersen, 5 Ian Bell, 6 Ravi Bopara, 7 Matt Prior (wk), 8 Tim Bresnan, 9 Graeme Swann, 10 Stuart Broad, 11 James Anderson

England bat down to 10 with the formidable Cook opening (made 294 less than 12 months ago), KP (who walks into any team at the moment) and the best WK batsmen in the game, Matt Prior (averages over 40 and he bats at 7). Add the fact that their probable No.8 bats with an average over 40! England have probably the best all-round bowling attack in the game - 2 World-class quicks, a World-'class spinner and a very good all-rounder in Tim Bresnan who averages over 40 with the bat and under 30 with the ball. One weak link though, Ravi Bopara.

1 Graeme Smith (capt), 2 Alviro Petersen, 3 Hashim Amla, 4 Jacques Kallis, 5 AB de Villiers (wk), 6 Jacques Rudolph, 7 JP Duminy, 8 Vernon Philander, 9 Dale Steyn, 10 Morne Morkel, 11 Imran Tahir

7 specalist batsmen which includes the best no.3 in the World and the best all-rounder seen in this era. There's also Graeme Smith and De Villiers who both average a shade under 50. Then the best fast bowling attack in the World, Steyn (best bowler in the World), Morkel and Philander (average of 14.15 in 7 Tests). Weak links? Petersen isn't the best opener, Boucher the usual WK is injured and Tahir is far from the best spinner in the World.

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My series prediction: 2-0 England.

Enjoy the game!

[DouglasJardinesbox]

get real here?

we are no.1 and the selectors normally proove us all wrong- we are two days in to a test v no.2 in the world. We are possibly marginally ahead or bang on even at the mo..

Thats real here!!!

What is that got to do with picking what we all know as county cricket players who are not at Test class? Feeble defence sir, a bit like Ravi's...

[mystiroakey]

its no defense- i almost agree with you. But as i said the reality is the seolctors have been proving many of us wrong- lets see what hppens after the test we arnt even half way on yet..

[mystiroakey]

ravi may even proove vital with the ball for all we know, b ut i doubt we will need that option..

Bring it on- Kinda gutted i am going to watch the dark knight...

[skyeman]

MV on TMS says Eng should stick with the lbw plan to Smith, SKY pundits say ditch it,

[JDizzle]

To the 99% who fully back putting a useless #6 (Johnny, Ravi, Irish) in the team instead of Finn, please put forward your case now. I'm so bored with the 'we don't need 4 seamers' crap. Bringing Finn on when Bresnan and Broad were coughing up nothing would have been sooooo much better. Although, granted, Ravi's excellent duck did help us a lot.

sigh......

You can't just say if we had picked Finn he would have taken wickets, when our "best" three seamers were struggling. If one of your wingers is struggling in rugby, you don't bring on a prop just because you think you have more strength in depth there; you bring on a player who will balance the side better. And in this England side that hasn't struggled to bowl out any side, especially in England, for 18 months/2 years but has folded a few times miserably with the bat (UAE, Perth) an extra batsman was needed rather than an extra bowler. And Ravi scored runs against Lolstralia (Potentially the best ever trend I've seen on Twitter) so deserved his chance in this series.

[skyeman]

MV on TMS says Eng should stick with the lbw plan to Smith, SKY pundits say ditch it,

Look's like they have ditched it, GOOD.

[mystiroakey]

arrr- umpire shoudl have given that one!!

[alfie]

Steady enough start from SA so far this morning...no drama yet.

Amla liking that sweep against Swann but not really executing it too well - might be dangerous ?
Anderson not giving Smith much at all .

Definitely a game of patience today ...

[Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler]

Yes I imagine Steve finn wouldve been lethal on a low slow pitch, and they specifically picked Bopara because they expected him to get out for 0.

I expected him to score a duck. Don't the selectors know more than a Scottish dude who knows nothing about cricket? Really?

Fact: Bopara scored 0
Non Fact: Finn would have got 0 wickets

It's time to get real here.

If you guess that a dice will roll o1 and someone elses guesses it will roll between 2 and 5 if it doesnt make you the clever one just for getting lucky when it rolls a 1.

This pitch would do no favours for Finn at all, and would just leave less overs for the better suited bowlers. Bopara came in on just as good a run of form.
And after the collapse wouldnt we be sitting here thinking " crikey I wish theyd picked a 6th batsman"

The last 2 years England have been successful with the 4 bowlers approach. On a 6 batsman pitch was that likely to change?
Should England have picked Finn over Strauss to open the batting?

[mystiroakey]

England are in a position were performance is immaterial- its only about the wins.. If we win then we can argue selections all day- but in a way that is being abit shortsighted as long as we keep winning

[alfie]

Strung a couple of maidens together ... now Broad on and he needs to keep it tight . These two are patient players but you can see that Smith in particular is getting a bit keen to press on.

Important session this and England will be anxious to get one of these two soon.

Swann looks the most likely.

[trebellbobaggins]

No doubt as to who the best team in the world are at the moment. They are putting us in our place. It isnt pretty.

[alfie]

Good fifty for Smith

He seems to like batting against England

[trebellbobaggins]

doesn't he just. get used to this. he will be leading a lot of wins this summer i fear. ah well, it was fun whilst it lasted but after Pakistan we knew we weren't the best. SA really are, just hope we can compete a bit.

[alfie]

A very tight first hour , except for that last over from Swann where the runs began to flow...Wonder if that is an aberration or a sign of things to come ?

Good time for a drink break.

[alfie]

I see you're coming in off the long run early this morning , trebs

Reckon we're going to need a big effort from you today so don't knock yourself out too quickly.

[trebellbobaggins]

I've given up alfie. I'm back to the Athers era. There's nothing i can do here.

Just enjoy watching the foreign invasion. Hopefully we get the team right next time and drop the dead weight and i think that's starting to include our captain.

[alfie]

Well I agree SA are on top now - and this partnership is looking very threatening , as I feared might happen if they weren't separated early on - but when a wicket falls things may well change again.

SA have to bat last - unless they make 600

[trebellbobaggins]

they look like 600 wil be easy for them. we must have some serious problems if we made it look so hard out there and them so easy. Or they just have better bowlers and batsmen. Looks like it.

[alfie]

Remember though , when Cook and Trott were batting SA must have been wondering where a wicket was coming from...

Their innings may yet follow a similar pattern.

Wonder when Bresnan is going to bowl ?

[alfie]

Well played Smith

Very good 100 putting his team on top...

[Biltong]

Well done Graeme, well done.

[Duty281]

Great century by Smith. The only English bowler looking threatening is Swann. Time to dig deep now.

[chrisss]

Oh great.

Top innings, but what an anti-climax to what should have been a very good score for England.

They choked under the expectation after a solid first day.

We are soon to find out just how many runs we should have scored when the Saffers are 200-1 in their first dig.

If SA are 200/1, you can loan me a hat

Hmmm.....

[skyeman]

Oh great.

Top innings, but what an anti-climax to what should have been a very good score for England.

They choked under the expectation after a solid first day.

We are soon to find out just how many runs we should have scored when the Saffers are 200-1 in their first dig.

If SA are 200/1, you can loan me a hat

Hmmm.....

yuk nearly choked.

Game heading for a draw i feel.

[trebellbobaggins]

Ouch, a serious drubbing.

I don't see anything but an SA win, huge first innings lead now. They have made our collapse look like a shambles of weak minded batting on a road sadly.

They'll skittle us and probably not have to bat again. Best team in the world easily I'd say. Fair play SA. They deserve is, don't see them making a fool of themselves like we did in the winter to be fair.

[Biltong]

I am very interested to hear what you guys eat there in the UK, far too often someone is suggesting they want to eat a hat?

If it is a case of needing to supplement you iron intake, then hats aren't going to do the trick, red meat though will.

[trebellbobaggins]

I think the captains have set te scene. Ours fails again , theirs is a giant dominating all before him.

Really Strauss has to go if he fails anymore, he's the week link at the top.

[alfie]

Wicket at last !!!

Bresnan

[alfie]

Congrats to Smith on a fine innings

Now what have we next ?

Oh ...just...Kallis

[skyeman]

Another wkt before tea, then panic

[Duty281]

Not looking good for England. Amla looks impenetrable and we all know Kallis is a very good batsman. Somehow, England are going to have to find a way and have the Saffers 5 or 6 down at stumps.

[alfie]

I wouldn't be conceding the match yet

Reckon England need at least three wickets in this last session to get back in touch...that would give them a decent chance to restrict the lead to something around 120. Which would mean no chance of winning but batting out for a draw hardly out of the question.

Getting any wickets at the moment isn't looking easy , but that is why they call it Test cricket...and England have been pretty good at it lately.

[trebellbobaggins]

Looks all over. Safas are going to sail past us and stuff our dopey batting apart.

The bad old days are back by looks of it.

[trebellbobaggins]

I wouldn't be conceding the match yet

Reckon England need at least three wickets in this last session to get back in touch...that would give them a decent chance to restrict the lead to something around 120. Which would mean no chance of winning but batting out for a draw hardly out of the question.

Getting any wickets at the moment isn't looking easy , but that is why they call it Test cricket...and England have been pretty good at it lately.

They should never have even given them a lead after winning the toss here, it's really not good enough. Got to look at this line up and make changes.

[alfie]

At 305/2 , trebs , I have to agree it ain't looking good

My money is still on a draw but you might need to do some serious blocking to help them ensure that ...

I have faith in your powers

[gboycottnut]

I wouldn't be conceding the match yet

Reckon England need at least three wickets in this last session to get back in touch...that would give them a decent chance to restrict the lead to something around 120. Which would mean no chance of winning but batting out for a draw hardly out of the question.

Getting any wickets at the moment isn't looking easy , but that is why they call it Test cricket...and England have been pretty good at it lately.

They should never have even given them a lead after winning the toss here, it's really not good enough. Got to look at this line up and make changes.

Well I knew that something like this situation was going to happen sooner or later what with our fragile batting order from numbers 6 downwards. Looking at these 2 batting lineups for this test match, South Africa have 2 very solid batsmen who can drop anchor and play a very frustrating innings in Amla and Kallis, whilst England only have Trott to do this role. Also South Africa have another advantage by selecting 7 specialist batsmen as opposed to England who have only got 6 specialist batsmen with one of whom in Bopara having question marks over whether he is good enough to handle high quality pace bowling at a test match level.

[Duty281]

http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/match/218383.html

Fifth Test at the Oval against Australia in 2005. England made 373 all out. Australia were 264/1 and cruising but England rallied to bowl them out for 367. We can do something similar today. Believe.

[gboycottnut]

I wouldn't be conceding the match yet

Reckon England need at least three wickets in this last session to get back in touch...that would give them a decent chance to restrict the lead to something around 120. Which would mean no chance of winning but batting out for a draw hardly out of the question.

Getting any wickets at the moment isn't looking easy , but that is why they call it Test cricket...and England have been pretty good at it lately.

They should never have even given them a lead after winning the toss here, it's really not good enough. Got to look at this line up and make changes.

Well there is nothing wrong with the top 5 batsmen, as all of them have scored runs this summer. The only questionable place is at number 6 where the selectors could risk putting Prior to this position and bring in an extra bowler to help strengthen the bowling attack. Of course this risky move then places greater pressure on our top 5 batsmen to make the runs needed. If Bopara fails again in the second innings for another 0 and the selectors don't want to risk moving Prior up to number 6, they should seriously consider bringing in a specialist opener to bat at number 6 in order to help give the batting more solidity in the middle order. But then of course the huge question becomes one of who is good enough to fill this position? Joe Denly? Robert Key? Sam Northeast? Daniel Bell Drummond? Michael Carberry? Stephen Moore? Sam Robson? Any other openers in county cricket who may be good enough to bat at number 6 at a test match level against a high class pace bowling attack?

[gboycottnut]

http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/match/218383.html

Fifth Test at the Oval against Australia in 2005. England made 373 all out. Australia were 264/1 and cruising but England rallied to bowl them out for 367. We can do something similar today. Believe.

Except of course England had 5 specialist bowlers available to them at that time with Flintoff still playing. Also another huge factor to consider is that South Africa have a formidable looking SEVEN specialist batsmen in their batting lineup whilst the Aussies had question marks over the form of many of their senior batsmen at that time.

[Duty281]

Quite simply, Finn has to come in for Bopara in the next Test. On this slow pitch, Finn would have given our attack an extra dimension.

[Biltong]

Magnificent innings by Amla, he is such a composed player.

[Duty281]

Quite agree Biltong, he could well get a Triple ton if he carries on like this.

[gboycottnut]

Quite simply, Finn has to come in for Bopara in the next Test. On this slow pitch, Finn would have given our attack an extra dimension.

Should he heck. Finn is nothing more than cannon foddor on a slow flat wicket as Umar Gul proved in 2010 when he belted Finn's long hops for many 6's. Also having Finn at the expense of a specialist batsman will put greater pressure on our top 5 batsmen and also on Matt Prior's shoulders. I don't agree at all with this philosophy that an extra seamer in Finn would have improved our bowling on this pitch as it is very slow and flat with the ball not doing very much in the air and off the pitch. What has put England in this current precarious position in this Test Match is that the batting particularly in the middle and lower order (apart from Prior) haven't scored enough runs needed to help give England a decent healthy total for this very flat wicket, which I believe to be around 480.

[mystiroakey]

alma is having a top innings..

this is gonna be a draw!!

[gboycottnut]

alma is having a top innings..

this is gonna be a draw!!

It doesn't look like being a draw to me at this time. There looks likely to be one winner and that is South Africa. Only a sustained spell of heavy rain can save England now in this test match.

[trebellbobaggins]

Well flower.. Time to sort it out. SeSMS we ignored the warnings of the Pakistan drubbing and are being shown where the best team in the world really are...far ahead of us right now.

Don't often agree with boynut but he is dead right on this one. Men and boys out there.

[Duty281]

This Test will be a draw. It's got easier and easier to bat on throughout the Test and that will continue with the sun baking down.

[mystiroakey]

blimey you lot are becoming unbearable.

[trebellbobaggins]

Vaughn reckoned it gets tougher. The difference is we are too poor and made it look a minefield. The pitch has nothing to do with it today, they are simply better than us. We could not beat them in helpful or unhelpful conditions. The winter warned us.

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