England v South Africa, The Oval, 1st Test Thread

by Duty281 Wed Jul 18, 2012 4:40 pm

First topic message reminder :

Here we go then, England v South Africa at The Oval where the battle for Number 1 will commence. A win or draw in the series for England will see them retain that coveted spot whereas South Africa need a series win to take the crown. This will be a true battle of the World's two best Test teams. Here are the lineups:

1 Andrew Strauss (capt), 2 Alastair Cook, 3 Jonathan Trott, 4 Kevin Pietersen, 5 Ian Bell, 6 Ravi Bopara, 7 Matt Prior (wk), 8 Tim Bresnan, 9 Graeme Swann, 10 Stuart Broad, 11 James Anderson

England bat down to 10 with the formidable Cook opening (made 294 less than 12 months ago), KP (who walks into any team at the moment) and the best WK batsmen in the game, Matt Prior (averages over 40 and he bats at 7). Add the fact that their probable No.8 bats with an average over 40! England have probably the best all-round bowling attack in the game - 2 World-class quicks, a World-'class spinner and a very good all-rounder in Tim Bresnan who averages over 40 with the bat and under 30 with the ball. One weak link though, Ravi Bopara.

1 Graeme Smith (capt), 2 Alviro Petersen, 3 Hashim Amla, 4 Jacques Kallis, 5 AB de Villiers (wk), 6 Jacques Rudolph, 7 JP Duminy, 8 Vernon Philander, 9 Dale Steyn, 10 Morne Morkel, 11 Imran Tahir

7 specalist batsmen which includes the best no.3 in the World and the best all-rounder seen in this era. There's also Graeme Smith and De Villiers who both average a shade under 50. Then the best fast bowling attack in the World, Steyn (best bowler in the World), Morkel and Philander (average of 14.15 in 7 Tests). Weak links? Petersen isn't the best opener, Boucher the usual WK is injured and Tahir is far from the best spinner in the World.

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My series prediction: 2-0 England.

Enjoy the game!

by **Biltong** Sat Jul 21, 2012 2:17 pm

msp83 wrote:Seems like a world away from my previous comment in this post. Then England was fighting hard, establishing their grip in the match after a rather shaky first over. Sadly for England, they haven't won a single session on days 2 and 3, and they have been completely outplayed over the last couple of days.
Is it the end of England glory under Andrew Strauss? I don't think so. South Africa, on any condition, is a tough opposition for any side in the world, and they are just proving that yet again here. Their batting lineup is real class. Although England's stronger lower order that again proved its worth by scoring 99 runs for the 7th 8th and 9th wickets give them an advantage, South Africa's top 7 I believe is better. Smith is a touch above Strauss's class, so is Amla over Trott and De Villiers over Bell. Kallis's relatively poor record in England may even things with Pietersen to some extend, but Rudolph at 6 is a better option than Bopara, and despite his struggles against Swann, JP Duminy is pretty good.
So unlike other sides England roled over in recent times, the South Africans have a much better lineup. So Their bowling strength wouldn't work always on flatter tracks such s this.
Don't think this match has gone away from England as yet, if they withstand the pressure, a draw is well within their grasp. And don't forget South Africa is never far from a choke!!!!!.

We only choke in ODI's mate, sorry to have to tell you this. Hug

by gboycottnut Sat Jul 21, 2012 2:17 pm

Galted wrote:Don't know what all the hysteria is about - game was roughly even after day 2 & SA's batsmen played out of their skins on day 3 which has been the best day for batting (as was predicted) - it happens. Draw's the most likely result, a single victory might be enough for the series win & often it boils down to one or two sessions of carnage - either attack is capable of it.

I have a bad feeling that such carnage will start when England start batting in their second innings sometime late tomorrow afternoon!

by mystiroakey Sat Jul 21, 2012 2:19 pm

arr a real saffa on...

Your boys did well Bilty - you gotta be well chuffed!!

by **Galted** Sat Jul 21, 2012 2:24 pm

Hope so as well mystiroakey, the test thread doesn't seem as busy as usual which is odd considering the magnitude of the series. At least gb & trebbs are entertaining in their own right, even in stereo. I know it's been commented on to death but with each passing session becomes that much more annoying that it's only 3 tests.

by **Biltong** Sat Jul 21, 2012 2:30 pm

mystiroakey wrote:arr a real saffa on...

Your boys did well Bilty - you gotta be well chuffed!!

Very happy mystir, I expected us to struggle in the first test, so I am pleasantly surprised.

Smith has not been in great form, but his bloody mindedness got him through.
Amla, well his powers of concentration has been superb
Kallis, a legend, 2/37 and 80 runs, what more can you ask of the man?

by gboycottnut Sat Jul 21, 2012 2:35 pm

Galted wrote:Hope so as well mystiroakey, the test thread doesn't seem as busy as usual which is odd considering the magnitude of the series. At least gb & trebbs are entertaining in their own right, even in stereo. I know it's been commented on to death but with each passing session becomes that much more annoying that it's only 3 tests.

At the rate things are badly going, with each passing session there is also huge relief that it is only 3 test matches and not a buffet sized 5 or even 6 test matches, as the scoreline at the end would have been similar to those suffered by England during the 2 test series V the West Indies in the 1980's, with a lot of us England fans having a severe headache and stomach-ache by the end from having to watch England getting a severe pasting in every test match.

by mystiroakey Sat Jul 21, 2012 2:40 pm

by **Galted** Sat Jul 21, 2012 2:43 pm

yep gboycottnut - I've just found out that none of the England wins that took them to no 1 actually happened, was all an elaborate CGI ploy by the BCCI to manipulate the ratings to make the IPL more attractive to Indians than tests by knocking India off no 1.

by Duty281 Sat Jul 21, 2012 2:46 pm

gboycottnut wrote:
Galted wrote:Hope so as well mystiroakey, the test thread doesn't seem as busy as usual which is odd considering the magnitude of the series. At least gb & trebbs are entertaining in their own right, even in stereo. I know it's been commented on to death but with each passing session becomes that much more annoying that it's only 3 tests.

At the rate things are badly going, with each passing session there is also huge relief that it is only 3 test matches and not a buffet sized 5 or even 6 test matches, as the scoreline at the end would have been similar to those suffered by England during the 2 test series V the West Indies in the 1980's, with a lot of us England fans having a severe headache and stomach-ache by the end from having to watch England getting a severe pasting in every test match.

Of course. England are so terrible we've lost 1 Test Series in the last 3 years. Disgusting record.

by Carrotdude Sat Jul 21, 2012 2:55 pm

Today must have been the worst day England have had in Tests for a long long time. From what I saw the bowling looked ordinary but then the pitch really wasn't giving us anything, the difference that SA have is the extra pace of Steyn. May I suggest the the ECB that we don't supply another flat pitch for the next Test given the strength of the SA batting? 4 in the top 10 in the world is scary.

by gboycottnut Sat Jul 21, 2012 2:59 pm

Galted wrote: yep gboycottnut - I've just found out that none of the England wins that took them to no 1 actually happened, was all an elaborate CGI ploy by the BCCI to manipulate the ratings to make the IPL more attractive to Indians than tests by knocking India off no 1.

It must have been, as James Anderson and Graeme Swann have been seen bowling unbelieveably well for England in the last few years, both of whom no doubt have been given bowling abilities which are similar to those of Glenn McGrath and Shane Warne in real life.

by **Biltong** Sat Jul 21, 2012 3:15 pm

I think you guys are totally over reacting here, we are in day three of fifteen days of test cricket. Nobody has won anything yet.

Hell, have some faith in your team

by **Galted** Sat Jul 21, 2012 3:21 pm

Not sure about the fifteen days biltong, if you believe most of the posters SA will wrap this up tomorrow & win the next 2 on the first or second days so seems we're probably looking at this being day 3 of 6/7/8.

by **Biltong** Sat Jul 21, 2012 3:28 pm

Ok, sorry didn't think about that. Shocked

by GSC Sat Jul 21, 2012 3:31 pm

Haha.

England made to toil (which in fairness SA did before the one time conditions were in bowlers favour) on an absolute road. Didn't think England bowled too badly, but some great batting and no help from the pitch made it an uphill task.

Problem is for SA, that they still need 10 England wickets and their only spinner is Tahir. Unless conditions align again like on day 2, its a tall order with only 1 recognised spinner. Unless England collapse, a draw seems likely.

Hate pitches like this. Utterly pointless to hold a test on it.

by **Galted** Sat Jul 21, 2012 3:36 pm

Hopefully for Tahir's sake he gets a long stint with the conditions in his favour (match & pitch). He looks troubling without being overly devasting but haven't seen him given time on a crumbling crust of a pitch which this one might be by late afternoon tomorrow.

by GSC Sat Jul 21, 2012 3:40 pm

Eh, I just don't think he's that good at this level. Poor accuracy

Spinner seems to be the achilles heel of the SA side down the years.

by **Galted** Sat Jul 21, 2012 3:46 pm

Get the impression that he probably isn't that good at this level but a bit of confidence does have the habit of changing things - think this test is pretty much setting itself up for him to prove himself. The lack of accuracy might be a case of trying too much, I'm sure the hype of being SA's first match-winning spinner since the middle ages must have got to him (especially since he isn't actually a Saffer to start with (no dig or wumming intended)).

by ShankyCricket Sat Jul 21, 2012 3:48 pm

biltongbek wrote:
msp83 wrote:Seems like a world away from my previous comment in this post. Then England was fighting hard, establishing their grip in the match after a rather shaky first over. Sadly for England, they haven't won a single session on days 2 and 3, and they have been completely outplayed over the last couple of days.
Is it the end of England glory under Andrew Strauss? I don't think so. South Africa, on any condition, is a tough opposition for any side in the world, and they are just proving that yet again here. Their batting lineup is real class. Although England's stronger lower order that again proved its worth by scoring 99 runs for the 7th 8th and 9th wickets give them an advantage, South Africa's top 7 I believe is better. Smith is a touch above Strauss's class, so is Amla over Trott and De Villiers over Bell. Kallis's relatively poor record in England may even things with Pietersen to some extend, but Rudolph at 6 is a better option than Bopara, and despite his struggles against Swann, JP Duminy is pretty good.
So unlike other sides England roled over in recent times, the South Africans have a much better lineup. So Their bowling strength wouldn't work always on flatter tracks such s this.
Don't think this match has gone away from England as yet, if they withstand the pressure, a draw is well within their grasp. And don't forget South Africa is never far from a choke!!!!!.
We only choke in ODI's mate, sorry to have to tell you this.

http://www.espncricinfo.com/south-africa-v-sri-lanka-2011/engine/match/514033.html

by **Biltong** Sat Jul 21, 2012 4:17 pm

Galted wrote:Get the impression that he probably isn't that good at this level but a bit of confidence does have the habit of changing things - think this test is pretty much setting itself up for him to prove himself. The lack of accuracy might be a case of trying too much, I'm sure the hype of being SA's first match-winning spinner since the middle ages must have got to him (especially since he isn't actually a Saffer to start with (no dig or wumming intended)).

To be fair he hasn't bowled a lot for SA yet, he is only playing his 8th test I think.

Also he hasn't played in spinner friendly conditions as far as I remember, but having said that he does tend to bowl the odd shyte ball per over which doesn't really help him to build pressure, and as Warne said yesterday he doesn't seem to bowl with a plan

Then again we have been very successful over the years without ever having to rely on a spinner.

by **Biltong** Sat Jul 21, 2012 4:20 pm

shankythebiggestengfan wrote:
biltongbek wrote:
msp83 wrote:Seems like a world away from my previous comment in this post. Then England was fighting hard, establishing their grip in the match after a rather shaky first over. Sadly for England, they haven't won a single session on days 2 and 3, and they have been completely outplayed over the last couple of days.
Is it the end of England glory under Andrew Strauss? I don't think so. South Africa, on any condition, is a tough opposition for any side in the world, and they are just proving that yet again here. Their batting lineup is real class. Although England's stronger lower order that again proved its worth by scoring 99 runs for the 7th 8th and 9th wickets give them an advantage, South Africa's top 7 I believe is better. Smith is a touch above Strauss's class, so is Amla over Trott and De Villiers over Bell. Kallis's relatively poor record in England may even things with Pietersen to some extend, but Rudolph at 6 is a better option than Bopara, and despite his struggles against Swann, JP Duminy is pretty good.
So unlike other sides England roled over in recent times, the South Africans have a much better lineup. So Their bowling strength wouldn't work always on flatter tracks such s this.
Don't think this match has gone away from England as yet, if they withstand the pressure, a draw is well within their grasp. And don't forget South Africa is never far from a choke!!!!!.
We only choke in ODI's mate, sorry to have to tell you this.
http://www.espncricinfo.com/south-africa-v-sri-lanka-2011/engine/match/514033.html

Shanky my dear friend, firstly you pick one test with a dismal first innings on a ground where we have lost our last five tests, and then pick that to generate a chokers tag.

kiss

by ShankyCricket Sat Jul 21, 2012 4:31 pm

Haha just banter!

by **Biltong** Sat Jul 21, 2012 4:35 pm

shankythebiggestengfan wrote:Haha just banter!

So you getting nervous yet? Whistle

by gboycottnut Sat Jul 21, 2012 5:27 pm

biltongbek wrote:
Galted wrote:Get the impression that he probably isn't that good at this level but a bit of confidence does have the habit of changing things - think this test is pretty much setting itself up for him to prove himself. The lack of accuracy might be a case of trying too much, I'm sure the hype of being SA's first match-winning spinner since the middle ages must have got to him (especially since he isn't actually a Saffer to start with (no dig or wumming intended)).
To be fair he hasn't bowled a lot for SA yet, he is only playing his 8th test I think.

Also he hasn't played in spinner friendly conditions as far as I remember, but having said that he does tend to bowl the odd shyte ball per over which doesn't really help him to build pressure, and as Warne said yesterday he doesn't seem to bowl with a plan

Then again we have been very successful over the years without ever having to rely on a spinner.

Does anyone remember South Africa's last matchwinning leg spin bowler Denys Hobson, who sadly because of the isolation years missed out on what would have been a successful test match career? What kind of leg spinner bowler was he and which modern day international counterpart was he similar to?

by DouglasJardinesbox Sun Jul 22, 2012 4:57 am

Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler wrote:
DouglasJardinesbox wrote:
Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler wrote:Yes I imagine Steve finn wouldve been lethal on a low slow pitch, and they specifically picked Bopara because they expected him to get out for 0.

I expected him to score a duck. Don't the selectors know more than a Scottish dude who knows nothing about cricket? Really?

Fact: Bopara scored 0
Non Fact: Finn would have got 0 wickets

It's time to get real here.

If you guess that a dice will roll o1 and someone elses guesses it will roll between 2 and 5 if it doesnt make you the clever one just for getting lucky when it rolls a 1.

This pitch would do no favours for Finn at all, and would just leave less overs for the better suited bowlers. Bopara came in on just as good a run of form.
And after the collapse wouldnt we be sitting here thinking " crikey I wish theyd picked a 6th batsman"

The last 2 years England have been successful with the 4 bowlers approach. On a 6 batsman pitch was that likely to change?
Should England have picked Finn over Strauss to open the batting?

Using the 'it's worked in the past, so we MUST stick to it' mantra is ridiculous. You are allowed to play to your strengths and change tactics, now and then. The inflexibility is puzzling, and basically short sighted. If we change to a more attacking formation, who is to say we can't stay #1 for 5 years or so? Especially when you, I and the whole of the cricketing world knows we do not have a half decent #6. So I will have to disagree Peter.

by mystiroakey Sun Jul 22, 2012 5:12 am

its not ridiculas-p but teams need to allways improve, most great teams in any sport do stick to a matra, its about havening players in a team that can adapt to a given situation. And england will end up with a comfortable draw- so they will adapt to a great SA team- one we may have mildly underestimated

by ChequeredJersey Sun Jul 22, 2012 5:22 am

Really need a big start today. Double breakthrough or we are screwed

by mystiroakey Sun Jul 22, 2012 5:23 am

I f we take wickets or we dont take wickets its a draw- its dead rubber from here on in- if SA try and score faster to put them self in a great position for a win we will get wickets..

by ChequeredJersey Sun Jul 22, 2012 5:26 am

I don't think it's dead yet, SA could (shouldn't, but could) bowl us out for an Innings Victory, Oakey!

by mystiroakey Sun Jul 22, 2012 5:27 am

nah, draw writen all over it mate

by protea438 Sun Jul 22, 2012 5:30 am

biltongbek wrote:I think you guys are totally over reacting here, we are in day three of fifteen days of test cricket. Nobody has won anything yet.

Hell, have some faith in your team

After what you said about the Proteas before the start, you shouldnt be saying this

by mystiroakey Sun Jul 22, 2012 6:22 am

So what is SA's objective - bat out the day and declare, bat till 30 mins to go and declare!!

by robbo277 Sun Jul 22, 2012 6:37 am

mystiroakey wrote:So what is SA's objective - bat out the day and declare, bat till 30 mins to go and declare!!

Bat most of the day. They'll want to get a wicket or two before close so they won't bat out the whole day.

England are doing well restricting the run rate, as South Africa's lead is only 39 at the moment. If it was 139 they could be more aggressive now, but as it is these two will keep building. England need to just make sure this happens as slowly as possible. Not fun tactics, but all we can do on this pitch in this situation we are now in.

by mystiroakey Sun Jul 22, 2012 6:42 am

personally if i was an SA fan i would be shouting at them to get the rate up!

Amla great 200. He is slowly becoming my fav 'other' player!

love his beard ~!!

by Gregers Sun Jul 22, 2012 7:02 am

Amla

what a knock. Can see him going on to score 300 and then SAffers retiring.

We need a 5th bowler Whistle

by alfie Sun Jul 22, 2012 7:06 am

Amla has played wonderfully well (if I am allowed to praise a skilled opponent rather than declare the whole England team to be rubbish Smile

)

Good candidate for No 3 in a World XI at the moment.

by alfie Sun Jul 22, 2012 7:12 am

Great bit of fielding !

But Kallis is safe...

by LivinginItaly Sun Jul 22, 2012 7:34 am

Unless SA manage to find some life from the pitch England should be able to bat out four sessions on this pitch, especially as they will probably overhaul the deficit sometime after tea tomorrow. The only worry for me is that the pressure of the situation can cause problems, particularly seen as many of our players, top 3 excluded, like to be attacking. Think our top 3 will be crucial, they will need to occupy as much time as possibile as I feel only they have the mental strength for this type of challenge.

by alfie Sun Jul 22, 2012 7:40 am

Kallis century was probably inevitable on this pitch ... despite a modest record in England he is too professional to have missed out in these circumstances...

SA doing a great job grinding England down ...they will need to score quickly though , as Smith generally likes a lot of runs in the bank before declaring , and this pitch looks as easy as any I've seen for batting.

by alfie Sun Jul 22, 2012 7:44 am

LivinginItaly wrote:Unless SA manage to find some life from the pitch England should be able to bat out four sessions on this pitch, especially as they will probably overhaul the deficit sometime after tea tomorrow. The only worry for me is that the pressure of the situation can cause problems, particularly seen as many of our players, top 3 excluded, like to be attacking. Think our top 3 will be crucial, they will need to occupy as much time as possibile as I feel only they have the mental strength for this type of challenge.

Agree with this summary : but I suspect Smith would prefer to bat longer than tea , so as to eliminate the chance of England wiping off the deficit and thereby releasing some pressure ...timing that declaration could be the tricky bit...

by trebellbobaggins Sun Jul 22, 2012 8:07 am

This is majestic from SA. Comedy from England.

Be they can't wait to declare and tear our poor line apart on this.

I feel vindicated in constantly slating how fragile we have been with the bat now. We ignored Pakistan and we are punished for it. Get the feeling flower might be in trouble. We can't face good bowlers and our bowling isn't effective enough sadly.

by Duty281 Sun Jul 22, 2012 8:08 am

This pitch is doing nothing. There's a bit for Swann admittedly but these 2 are very fine players and nullifying his threat. Swing? None. Seam? None. Barring a catastrophe, this'll be a draw.

by Corporalhumblebucket Sun Jul 22, 2012 8:11 am

Amla. The true successor to Bill Frindall as the Bearded Wonder.... Whistle

by trebellbobaggins Sun Jul 22, 2012 8:12 am

Just Walt and see what morks and steyn get from it. It'll be a different pitch.

Been a good few years but it did end last summer really.

by sugarNspikes Sun Jul 22, 2012 9:25 am

Can't see beyond a draw on this one.

Excellent batting by SA though.

by mystiroakey Sun Jul 22, 2012 9:28 am

it reminds me of what england did to aus in aus lat time up

by mystiroakey Sun Jul 22, 2012 9:58 am

I really think SA have missed a trick here. surely its just time to hit out and try and get 150 with over a run a ball in 20 overs and declare of go all out! this is gonna be a draw- and if the teams were reversed id be gutted-alma and kalis just want personal big scores!

by **Galted** Sun Jul 22, 2012 10:27 am

well done to Amla, did get the feeling he lost his nerve when he got to 290 with some of the shots he played but glad he got there

by **Galted** Sun Jul 22, 2012 10:28 am

& was my 300th post by some bizarre coincidence

by mystiroakey Sun Jul 22, 2012 10:29 am

lol galted.. now stop posting otherwise his score wont stop!!!

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