England v South Africa, The Oval, 1st Test Thread

by Duty281 Thu Jul 19, 2012 12:40 am

First topic message reminder :

Here we go then, England v South Africa at The Oval where the battle for Number 1 will commence. A win or draw in the series for England will see them retain that coveted spot whereas South Africa need a series win to take the crown. This will be a true battle of the World's two best Test teams. Here are the lineups:

1 Andrew Strauss (capt), 2 Alastair Cook, 3 Jonathan Trott, 4 Kevin Pietersen, 5 Ian Bell, 6 Ravi Bopara, 7 Matt Prior (wk), 8 Tim Bresnan, 9 Graeme Swann, 10 Stuart Broad, 11 James Anderson

England bat down to 10 with the formidable Cook opening (made 294 less than 12 months ago), KP (who walks into any team at the moment) and the best WK batsmen in the game, Matt Prior (averages over 40 and he bats at 7). Add the fact that their probable No.8 bats with an average over 40! England have probably the best all-round bowling attack in the game - 2 World-class quicks, a World-'class spinner and a very good all-rounder in Tim Bresnan who averages over 40 with the bat and under 30 with the ball. One weak link though, Ravi Bopara.

1 Graeme Smith (capt), 2 Alviro Petersen, 3 Hashim Amla, 4 Jacques Kallis, 5 AB de Villiers (wk), 6 Jacques Rudolph, 7 JP Duminy, 8 Vernon Philander, 9 Dale Steyn, 10 Morne Morkel, 11 Imran Tahir

7 specalist batsmen which includes the best no.3 in the World and the best all-rounder seen in this era. There's also Graeme Smith and De Villiers who both average a shade under 50. Then the best fast bowling attack in the World, Steyn (best bowler in the World), Morkel and Philander (average of 14.15 in 7 Tests). Weak links? Petersen isn't the best opener, Boucher the usual WK is injured and Tahir is far from the best spinner in the World.

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My series prediction: 2-0 England.

Enjoy the game!

by **Fists of Fury** Mon Jul 23, 2012 3:52 pm

Prior - DO NOT SWEEP!!!

by **Pal Joey** Mon Jul 23, 2012 3:53 pm

eirebilly wrote:
Linebreaker wrote:Hi Billy... I hear (from Gibbo) it's a lovely warm sunny day in the Dam. Hope you've parked yourself outside somewhere... and Baille is by your side

Like Warnie says... wear a hat and slip, slop, slap.

Its feican hot here breaker

Ballie is out fighting the horses

maybe he thinks he's one?

by JDizzle Mon Jul 23, 2012 3:53 pm

Bit harsh on Bopara, and I am a huge critic of him, to say he shouldn't have played at that. It was a bad ball and we still need to score runs and get a lead but Bopara just executed the shot badly.

by mystiroakey Mon Jul 23, 2012 3:53 pm

Alfie you get me!!! jeas its been depressing on here.. Optimists come out the closet!!

by Carrotdude Mon Jul 23, 2012 3:55 pm

JDizzle wrote:Bit harsh on Bopara, and I am a huge critic of him, to say he shouldn't have played at that. It was a bad ball and we still need to score runs and get a lead but Bopara just executed the shot badly.

Yes this is the problem, he played the shot badly but it was a shot he was entitled to play. Short and wide and asking to be hit.

by mystiroakey Mon Jul 23, 2012 3:56 pm

right choice for bop but bad execution

by **Fists of Fury** Mon Jul 23, 2012 3:56 pm

Runs my backside. SA will chase down whatever we set them. Better to dig in and not give wickets away...just bat time and we draw. We cannot win so forget the runs.

by mystiroakey Mon Jul 23, 2012 3:58 pm

FOF that negative approach will kill us- we just need to bat half decent- on this pitch a par performance is 400 for our team- so whats the big deal!! The batters need to just play test cricket

by **Biltong** Mon Jul 23, 2012 4:01 pm

Best session for england since day 1, only lost one wicket.

by eirebilly Mon Jul 23, 2012 4:02 pm

alfie wrote:Hey Billy - great to see you back on deck !

We can do with a touch of your optimism round here ...trebs does a great job of reversing , but when it isn't working it can make the conversation a bit downbeat
Especially as Fists has taken to trying to outdo him in pessimism ...throw in gboycottnut and I was nearly reaching for my revolver on the weekend...

Always good to see on here alfie, i havent given up hope yet that England can salvage a draw Wink

by eirebilly Mon Jul 23, 2012 4:02 pm

Linebreaker wrote:
eirebilly wrote:
Linebreaker wrote:Hi Billy... I hear (from Gibbo) it's a lovely warm sunny day in the Dam. Hope you've parked yourself outside somewhere... and Baille is by your side

Like Warnie says... wear a hat and slip, slop, slap.

Its feican hot here breaker

Ballie is out fighting the horses

maybe he thinks he's one?

Never finishes well Wink

by alfie Mon Jul 23, 2012 4:03 pm

Absolutely , mystiroakey...Anyone who remembers 1981 knows there is always hope ...

...it is usually disappointed in the end of course , but why hold the funeral before you're actually dead ?

by dummy_half Mon Jul 23, 2012 4:04 pm

Fists

Runs can still be valuable in the context of the game - we are 79 behind the SA score, so we need to score all those and then everything beyond that counts double (as SA will have to score them). Also, we could even be in the situation as with Cardiff at the start of the Ashes where the 2 overs lost for the change of innings becomes important.

OK, so we shouldn't be taking on any high risk shots, but we shouldn't be entirely passive either (and anyway that doesn't suit Prior, Broad or Swann). Best chance of the draw is for players to just rein back their natural game a little rather than just blocking everything (unless we can disguise Boycott as Swann and send him out at #10 - stick of celery and all)

by VTR Mon Jul 23, 2012 4:05 pm

I think SA will still win easily but we've done well there to only lose one wicket in the session - it was a walking wicket as well!

by eirebilly Mon Jul 23, 2012 4:05 pm

Fists of Fury wrote:Runs my backside. SA will chase down whatever we set them. Better to dig in and not give wickets away...just bat time and we draw. We cannot win so forget the runs.

I think that runs will play a big part. To get a lead of 50 to 100, England will use up alot of overs and SA wont have many overs to chase. Just play as they are now and England can steal a draw here Very Happy

by Liam Mon Jul 23, 2012 4:05 pm

that's more like it, digging in and putting the bad balls away. Bell and Prior have been superb and they deserve to be there at the very end. Fact is despite the spin, the pitch is still a very good batting track. You just need to dig in, take the runs when on offer and block out the good ones.

Easy game isn't it haha.

by FerN Mon Jul 23, 2012 4:10 pm

If it goes on like this, England might well still pull out a draw. Very good fight put on by these two.

by Shelsey93 Mon Jul 23, 2012 4:10 pm

Duty281 wrote:The more runs England get, the less time they need to bat. Batting out 75 overs a 3 an over should be enough.

True, but I tend to think that we shouldn't be doing anything to score runs which remotely risks losing our wickets at this stage - Bopara's dismissal was a risky shot. The chop on was in play, as was caught gully/square leg if he mistimed it. Leave alone the balls you don't need to play. Take the singles to keep the score ticking and make sure the strike is rotated.

by Liam Mon Jul 23, 2012 4:14 pm

Runs are important though. Just put the bad balls away, take the singles when on offer like Shelsey said and just bat bat bat.

by GSC Mon Jul 23, 2012 4:17 pm

If we had Collingwood we could've shaken on a draw by now

by Gregers Mon Jul 23, 2012 4:17 pm

Attrition cricket Very Happy

by Duty281 Mon Jul 23, 2012 4:17 pm

There's a long way to go but by tea, England will have wiped out the deficit. We need to stick at it and only lose a maximum of 1 wicket in this session. Going the session unbeaten would be perfect.

The Great Escape in Cardiff 2009
The Great Escape in Centurion 2009
The Great Escape in Cape Town 2010
The Great Escape in Brisbane 2010
The Great Escape in London 2012?

by Duty281 Mon Jul 23, 2012 4:18 pm

We'll lose 2 overs for the innings changeover IF we get there won't we?

by Liam Mon Jul 23, 2012 4:19 pm

I was there in Cardiff, what an atmosphere. Every block was cheered and we were sitting in with about 100 Aussies. They were singing all day and taunting the England fans, you want to see their faces at the end of the day, priceless. 'Your not singing anymore' was a personal favourite Laugh

by **Ozzy3213** Mon Jul 23, 2012 4:19 pm

Shelsey93 wrote:
Duty281 wrote:The more runs England get, the less time they need to bat. Batting out 75 overs a 3 an over should be enough.

True, but I tend to think that we shouldn't be doing anything to score runs which remotely risks losing our wickets at this stage - Bopara's dismissal was a risky shot. The chop on was in play, as was caught gully/square leg if he mistimed it. Leave alone the balls you don't need to play. Take the singles to keep the score ticking and make sure the strike is rotated.

On a 5th day pitch with the odd variable bounce, chopping on would be in play to almost every shot. The decision to play the shot wasn't what was wrong, the execution of it was. Bopara is a good player but will never be a test match batsman as his execution under pressure is not good enough.

by GSC Mon Jul 23, 2012 4:20 pm

I remember those Aussies from day 3 martyr. Mouthing off all day

by JDizzle Mon Jul 23, 2012 4:23 pm

We do need to score runs! We don't need to be stupid and play risky shots, but we do need to keep ticking the score over. Think Ashes 09 at Cardiff, we got 10/20 ahead which means we had to survive for 4 overs less (2 for change around, and then 2 for Australia would be needed to get near the runs) so runs do help.

by mystiroakey Mon Jul 23, 2012 4:26 pm

In this scenario we have to play opener style test cricket.

by GSC Mon Jul 23, 2012 4:28 pm

In this scenario we have to play cricket.

by Duty281 Mon Jul 23, 2012 4:29 pm

New ball available in 14 overs, don't forget.

by Liam Mon Jul 23, 2012 4:34 pm

Graeme Swann's Cat wrote:I remember those Aussies from day 3 martyr. Mouthing off all day

they were a nightmare but we had the last laugh

by eirebilly Mon Jul 23, 2012 4:34 pm

I have every confidence that Bell and Prior will see England past the deficit. Then it will be about staying there and trying to get some sort of lead that SA cant chase down in the overs left.

by Liam Mon Jul 23, 2012 4:36 pm

I agree guys, runs are needed. If you try to block everything, you will get a ball with your name on it. Put away the bad balls, take the 1's and 2's and don't let the bowler dictate play. Prior will score freely, that's his game. I would like to see Bell play Tahir a bit more positively but looks like he's going to try and stick in there and bat the day out.

by **Pal Joey** Mon Jul 23, 2012 4:40 pm

Graeme Swann's Cat wrote:I remember those Aussies from day 3 martyr. Mouthing off all day

How premature! Smile

I made a comment about that on another thread the other day. They got what they deserved, didn't they?
I just hope you guys don't get too carried away if you win the series - what goes around comes around... as always.

by mystiroakey Mon Jul 23, 2012 4:40 pm

pressure builds and builds if you dont tick it along!

by GSC Mon Jul 23, 2012 4:41 pm

I'm more concerned with getting through this game.

by **Ozzy3213** Mon Jul 23, 2012 4:44 pm

martyr wrote:I agree guys, runs are needed. If you try to block everything, you will get a ball with your name on it. Put away the bad balls, take the 1's and 2's and don't let the bowler dictate play. Prior will score freely, that's his game. I would like to see Bell play Tahir a bit more positively but looks like he's going to try and stick in there and bat the day out.

It's the right option from Bell with Prior at the other end. One drop anchor and one keep the scoreboard moving. Bell has to revert to Geoff Boycott opening mode and say I am batting to the close even if I don't score a run. If he does bat through we will save the game comfortably, as Prior, Bresnan, Broad and Swann will pick up the runs at the other end to get us into credit.

by **Fists of Fury** Mon Jul 23, 2012 4:51 pm

Important half hour here. We have seen how many times the break brings a wicket. Heads down. Dig in.

by Liam Mon Jul 23, 2012 4:54 pm

Lovely couple of shots from Bell and Prior. Great stop by the big man Morkel. If England can get to tea 7 down max with one of these two still in, I think they'll salvage the draw. If England save this it will be as good as winning it, or it will certainly feel like it.

by **Ozzy3213** Mon Jul 23, 2012 4:54 pm

Steyn looking revved up to try to make the breakthrough here!

by **Fists of Fury** Mon Jul 23, 2012 4:57 pm

A revved up Steyn is a fearsome prospect, and generally does bring about a wicket.

Dig in boys!!

by Hibbz Mon Jul 23, 2012 4:58 pm

I have one wish for this summer which is that just once when Stain does that running backward appealing like a madman thing he falls flat on his ar$e.

by **Ozzy3213** Mon Jul 23, 2012 5:00 pm

He's going to be sprinting in with the new ball as well soon Fists, so these boys are really going to have to dig in.

by Liam Mon Jul 23, 2012 5:02 pm

Mind you, the new ball might favour England. Bit of extra pace, no spinner to worry about and Bell and Prior may be able to manipulate the ball around the ground a bit easier.

Or Philander, Steyn and Morkel will come running in, swing in beautifully and England won't have the answers.

I'm hoping for the first option haha

by alfie Mon Jul 23, 2012 5:05 pm

Of course they have to score runs - too long left in the match to just block and leave.
I reckon Bopara was a bit unlucky : looking at the Hawkeye graphic the ball was just a little too close and high bouncing - fraction lower and he can get right over it and steer it down back of point , little wider and it can go in the air safely enough square ...as it was there was the risk of an under edge (which often as not runs away fine anyway) This one he drags on , but a lot of players would have played the same shot to that delivery, and if they'd got away with it no one would have felt it a poor decision...

Reckon the Strauss shot last night was much more deserving of criticism.

by Liam Mon Jul 23, 2012 5:08 pm

alfie wrote:Of course they have to score runs - too long left in the match to just block and leave.
I reckon Bopara was a bit unlucky : looking at the Hawkeye graphic the ball was just a little too close and high bouncing - fraction lower and he can get right over it and steer it down back of point , little wider and it can go in the air safely enough square ...as it was there was the risk of an under edge (which often as not runs away fine anyway) This one he drags on , but a lot of players would have played the same shot to that delivery, and if they'd got away with it no one would have felt it a poor decision...

Reckon the Strauss shot last night was much more deserving of criticism.

Completely agree. Ravi played the right shot, ball was there to hit. Just a shame it came off the inside edge, could have easily have gone over or past the stumps.

What Strauss was doing last night I don't know. He'd seen the ball split out of the rough a few balls before, so he plays what is already a risky shot, to a ball pitching outside off into that rough, he was asking for trouble. He'd played well for 27, no need for it.

by mystiroakey Mon Jul 23, 2012 5:16 pm

Ok so bell is amazing me again- Someone was asking who could replace strauss as an opener- i think this is solid proof that he could be moved forward

by alfie Mon Jul 23, 2012 5:17 pm

Fists of Fury wrote:A revved up Steyn is a fearsome prospect, and generally does bring about a wicket.

Dig in boys!!

It is indeed a testing time for a batsman...

Remember that spell he bowled to Collingwood after lunch on the last day at Cape Town in 2010 ? Every ball had me flinching in front of the TV Smile

... somehow Collingwood survived about five overs , scoreless but safe.

I knew we'd draw after that ...

by LivinginItaly Mon Jul 23, 2012 5:21 pm

"Do you like smoothies?"

Tuffnell (silent for a minute) "oh you mean the drink"

TMS - fabulous for releasing the tension. Wonder what he was thinking about at first though.

by alfie Mon Jul 23, 2012 5:21 pm

Well done with the fifty Bell ... Lot more of that needed though.

Another fifty overs I understand and he probably needs to bat for most of them...

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