England v South Africa, The Oval, 1st Test Thread

by Duty281 Wed Jul 18, 2012 9:40 pm

First topic message reminder :

Here we go then, England v South Africa at The Oval where the battle for Number 1 will commence. A win or draw in the series for England will see them retain that coveted spot whereas South Africa need a series win to take the crown. This will be a true battle of the World's two best Test teams. Here are the lineups:

1 Andrew Strauss (capt), 2 Alastair Cook, 3 Jonathan Trott, 4 Kevin Pietersen, 5 Ian Bell, 6 Ravi Bopara, 7 Matt Prior (wk), 8 Tim Bresnan, 9 Graeme Swann, 10 Stuart Broad, 11 James Anderson

England bat down to 10 with the formidable Cook opening (made 294 less than 12 months ago), KP (who walks into any team at the moment) and the best WK batsmen in the game, Matt Prior (averages over 40 and he bats at 7). Add the fact that their probable No.8 bats with an average over 40! England have probably the best all-round bowling attack in the game - 2 World-class quicks, a World-'class spinner and a very good all-rounder in Tim Bresnan who averages over 40 with the bat and under 30 with the ball. One weak link though, Ravi Bopara.

1 Graeme Smith (capt), 2 Alviro Petersen, 3 Hashim Amla, 4 Jacques Kallis, 5 AB de Villiers (wk), 6 Jacques Rudolph, 7 JP Duminy, 8 Vernon Philander, 9 Dale Steyn, 10 Morne Morkel, 11 Imran Tahir

7 specalist batsmen which includes the best no.3 in the World and the best all-rounder seen in this era. There's also Graeme Smith and De Villiers who both average a shade under 50. Then the best fast bowling attack in the World, Steyn (best bowler in the World), Morkel and Philander (average of 14.15 in 7 Tests). Weak links? Petersen isn't the best opener, Boucher the usual WK is injured and Tahir is far from the best spinner in the World.

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My series prediction: 2-0 England.

Enjoy the game!

by dummy_half Mon Jul 23, 2012 2:22 pm

Alfie

Agree entirely that Strauss deserves any criticism coming his way for that shot - totally crazy under the circumstances. He is not a good sweeper of the ball, but keeps playing it and it keeps costing him his wicket.

Bopara was right to look to score off a wide long hop, but made the same sort of mistake as Bresnan in the first innings - you have to play either with a vertical bat and aim through extra cover, or a properly horizontal bat through point / gulley, not with the bat half way in between, where there's less margin for error and where the edge so often goes close to the wickets.

by LivinginItaly Mon Jul 23, 2012 2:23 pm

alfie wrote:Well done with the fifty Bell ... Lot more of that needed though.

Another fifty overs I understand and he probably needs to bat for most of them...

Excellent innings by Bell, taken up nearly 200 balls also. Needs to keep going as long as possible.

by LivinginItaly Mon Jul 23, 2012 2:24 pm

Prior gone...why oh why the sweep.

by **Fists of Fury** Mon Jul 23, 2012 2:24 pm

Prior you absolute idiot. Sweeping...what did I say! Brainless cretin.

by mystiroakey Mon Jul 23, 2012 2:25 pm

he still have bres , broad and swann- all can bat(ish!)

by LivinginItaly Mon Jul 23, 2012 2:26 pm

Opportunity for Bresnan to show his batting ability.

by mystiroakey Mon Jul 23, 2012 2:26 pm

all bres needs is his average!!"!

by **Fists of Fury** Mon Jul 23, 2012 2:28 pm

Not a chance. Bres is a hugely over-rated batsman, with a ridiculously flattering average. He won't reach double figures.

by Liam Mon Jul 23, 2012 2:28 pm

Prior you absolute t*t, what a complete and utter rubbish shot.

by alfie Mon Jul 23, 2012 2:28 pm

Oh dear ... Prior really didn't need to throw the kitchen sink at that...

He plays aggressively and it works for him mostly... but that particular shot has got him out a couple of times in situations like this...would prefer he save the big shots for the off side at which he excels...ah well he got us to 200 at least.

Up to Bresnan now.

by **Fists of Fury** Mon Jul 23, 2012 2:30 pm

Just utterly irresponsible batting. He should get a smack around the back of that bald head from Flower for such an idiotic shot.

If he and Bell had seen off the new ball we would have stood a chance...now he has exposed the tail to it and sent any hopes we had up in smoke. Played well, but it all counts for nothing now.

by Liam Mon Jul 23, 2012 2:32 pm

England haven't learnt from the mistakes made in the sub-continent. When the ball is spitting and turning, do not play a rash sweep shot, especially when pitched in the rough. Well played anyway Prior, KP, Strauss all played poorly and contributed to this situation.

by **Fists of Fury** Mon Jul 23, 2012 2:37 pm

KP missed a straight one, not really as rash as sweeping. Just a strange one.

In Colombo we didn't use the sweep at all, and we won!! Don't sweep in the last innings on a track that is spitting and turning! It is common sense, something which we worryingly lack a lot of.

New ball now. Time for us to get blown away.

by mystiroakey Mon Jul 23, 2012 2:41 pm

Our problem isnt this innings- we are doing marginally ok(because the pressure is on). It was he frst innings. We started lashing out thinking everything was rosey as it normally isfor us in recent times at 175/1 .. We underestimated the opposition and pitch.

But we have been taught a lesson here and hopefully we can dig ourself out of this hole and make a mends next two games

by Shelsey93 Mon Jul 23, 2012 2:43 pm

Poor shot from Prior it must be said. Instructions should have been to slow right down up to the new ball.

by alfie Mon Jul 23, 2012 2:44 pm

I wouldn't say never sweep - you have to score somehow. But I think there is a big difference between a controlled sweep , played to the right ball , though it may often only bring one, and an apparent attempt to smash the ball over the grandstand ...which really wasn't needed.
Harsh to blame Prior too much for the current predicament - he had done well to rekindle hope after the top order had failed.

But it is going to be hard work now ... runs have dried up and SA are looking for the kill ...

by mystiroakey Mon Jul 23, 2012 2:45 pm

we need 100 runs in 275 balls or 150 runs in 200 balls.

or just bat out

by Liam Mon Jul 23, 2012 2:45 pm

I agree 1st innings cost us. Became too complacent and thought 500 was a gimmie, something we were all thinking. KP played a poor shot in the first innings, there were big runs available for him there, and Cook will be livid with the shot he played first innings to get out for 115, still a superb knock however.

by **Fists of Fury** Mon Jul 23, 2012 2:46 pm

Alfie, but that is the thing, you don't have to score...not right before the new ball. Just dead bat it!! The sweep is a hugely risk shot on spitting and turning tracks. Just remove it from your game, as Strauss/Cook etc did in Colombo, and we all saw what happened there - we won!

by mystiroakey Mon Jul 23, 2012 2:48 pm

if cricket was like golf- the captain could take the sweeping iron away from the batsman!!

by Liam Mon Jul 23, 2012 2:50 pm

game. set. match.

Great knock from Bell, great delivery to get him out.

by mystiroakey Mon Jul 23, 2012 2:50 pm

game over

by **Fists of Fury** Mon Jul 23, 2012 2:50 pm

Now that really is game over. Well played though, Belly.

by eirebilly Mon Jul 23, 2012 2:50 pm

This is still far from over. Bresnan, Swann and Broad are all capable of getting 20's or 30's and can still steer England into a position where they can draw the match.

Believe England v South Africa, The Oval, 1st Test Thread - Page 18 1145808659

England v South Africa, The Oval, 1st Test Thread - Page 18 1145808659

Bugger, Bell gone Sad

by Shelsey93 Mon Jul 23, 2012 2:51 pm

Well that's that then. We now need to change our approach - blocking/ leaving won't do it now Bell's gone. I'd say Broad to get in and then chance his arm, whilst Bresnan sticks around.

by Liam Mon Jul 23, 2012 2:52 pm

I agree Shels, Broad can just have a licence to throw the bat, same with Swann. Its still game over though.

by Duty281 Mon Jul 23, 2012 2:53 pm

I'm nearly ready to throw the towel in. Bell's played his heart out for England and I can't fault him. Prior did well but it was a horrible shot that led to his downfall. Near enough game over, however, Broad can throw the bat around a bit. Quick 50 maybe with Bresnan in support? Unlikely but you never know.

by eirebilly Mon Jul 23, 2012 2:53 pm

Remember Broads batting in a lost cause against SA in England a few years ago? Could do with that now Very Happy

by mystiroakey Mon Jul 23, 2012 2:54 pm

score big- get to 100 lead and we have a kinda chance at the win!! 20/20 style

by Duty281 Mon Jul 23, 2012 2:57 pm

On the plus side, England usually bounce back well from defeat in recent times, the UAE tour apart. Loss against Sri Lanka was followed by a win, losses against the Aussies in 2009 and 2010 were followed by wins.

by alfie Mon Jul 23, 2012 2:58 pm

Fists of Fury wrote:Alfie, but that is the thing, you don't have to score...not right before the new ball. Just dead bat it!! The sweep is a hugely risk shot on spitting and turning tracks. Just remove it from your game, as Strauss/Cook etc did in Colombo, and we all saw what happened there - we won!

I get what you're saying , Fists , but we will just have to politely disagree here. I think it is all a matter of selection ... and on this occasion Prior selected wrong. But I wouldn't make an inflexible rule. A difference of philosophy I suppose ...

by Duty281 Mon Jul 23, 2012 3:00 pm

Broad's gone, just a tiny tiny HotSpot.

by mystiroakey Mon Jul 23, 2012 3:00 pm

ermm that looked out

by mystiroakey Mon Jul 23, 2012 3:02 pm

nothing conclusive tho- broad has to get the benefit

by **Fists of Fury** Mon Jul 23, 2012 3:02 pm

These dismissals just get better and better....

Granted the tail were always going to get out against the new ball bowlers, but to get out to one going down leg isn't great!

by Liam Mon Jul 23, 2012 3:02 pm

by mystiroakey Mon Jul 23, 2012 3:03 pm

lads your ahead is it out or not!!

ffs

by mystiroakey Mon Jul 23, 2012 3:03 pm

how could they give that as conclusive- surely you gotta go with the umpire in that case.. grrr

by Duty281 Mon Jul 23, 2012 3:03 pm

He's gone and that is goodnight England. We fought well today but now well enough. Contrary to some opinion, wholesale changes are not needed. Finn in for Bopara should be the only change. I'm still confident of a series win.

by mystiroakey Mon Jul 23, 2012 3:04 pm

gotta admit in hindsight we just havent scored quick enough- either way tho- SA deserve this. only one team in this game, but we should have got the draw all the same

by **Fists of Fury** Mon Jul 23, 2012 3:05 pm

I find your wealth of confidence disturbing.

3-0 SA, without a shadow of a doubt.

by alfie Mon Jul 23, 2012 3:05 pm

It would appear realistic hope has gone with Bell.

Runs have now totally ceased and an innings defeat looms...

Broad given out on less than totally compelling evidence there : may well have gloved it but I'm not sure the proof was absolute...No matter. The tail cannot last long against Steyn.

Anyway the end will come quickly now so on the bright side I will get some sleep Smile

by **Fists of Fury** Mon Jul 23, 2012 3:06 pm

mystiroakey wrote:gotta admit in hindsight we just havent scored quick enough- either way tho- SA deserve this. only one team in this game, but we should have got the draw all the same

Not scored quick enough? We only had to bat four sessions to save the game. Run rate should never have come in to it, just keeping our wickets intact.

Unfortunately we are total bottlers under pressure - always have been and always will be - so there was little chance of that.

by Hibbz Mon Jul 23, 2012 3:07 pm

Broad looking rather sheepish on the way off. Must be a strange feeling standing there knowing there's a good chance you're about to be made to look slightly dishonest.

On the other hand I often think when the bowling team appeal like crazy but then don't review they're guilty of much the same offence.

by Duty281 Mon Jul 23, 2012 3:07 pm

Fists of Fury wrote:I find your wealth of confidence disturbing.

3-0 SA, without a shadow of a doubt.

2-1 England, without a shadow of a doubt.

by mystiroakey Mon Jul 23, 2012 3:07 pm

Nah to negative..

all about getting the lead then chilling out. england are good enough to just bat in this and get a min of 400 scoring at 3 an over

by Liam Mon Jul 23, 2012 3:08 pm

SA are a quality side, England can still bounce back although in recent years Headingly hasn't been great for us. 1-0 up with 2 to play is a massive advantage.

Swann has been pretty ordinary with the ball. Really surprised as I thought he would be giving the SA batsmen all sorts of problems with the pitch taking turn and bounce.

by alfie Mon Jul 23, 2012 3:09 pm

Now now , Fists - I know you are attempting advance reversing ...

SA have bossed this match from day two onward ...quite spectacularly in fact - but we all start from 0/0 again at Headingley.

by Hibbz Mon Jul 23, 2012 3:09 pm

Fists of Fury wrote:I find your wealth of confidence disturbing.

3-0 SA, without a shadow of a doubt.

I'd have thought the British weather if nothing else was enough to cast a shadow (pun intended) of doubt on your prediction.

by **Good Golly I'm Olly** Mon Jul 23, 2012 3:10 pm

All we needed to do essentially was block for 4 sessions which is roughly 120 overs. Not play silly shots and get out. We bat all the way down to 10, we should have been able to block out 120 overs

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