The Dew Drop Inn Virtual Rugby Pub, Bridgend

First topic message reminder :

Hello and welcome to the Dew Drop Inn, a place where you can come in for a sly beverage and discuss whatever's on your mind, or just eavesdrop on the regulars if you fancy a break from all the rugby chat.

This week the pub has set up in Bridgend, the birthplace of ex Wales and Lions centre Dr. Jack Matthews, who has sadly passed away.

The only rule in this pub is one of mutual respect for everyone in it, oh and no tampering with the pictures of Dr Jack Matthews and his Welsh centres partner Bleddyn Williams.




Previous Pub: https://www.606v2.com/t32320p950-the-dew-drop-inn-virtual-antananarivo-arms-madagascar

I think I heard before Gandhi was influenced by some of the Irish ways. Some guerrila warfare and other fighting has certainly been influenced by a member of the IRB anyway. Tom Barry, boy!

Pete330v2 wrote:

Gibson wrote:

Pete330v2 wrote:Maybe not so much across the border there but here the GAA and politics go hand in hand. I mean if any other sport were to name clubs etc after terrorists would they not be frowned upon? The Osama Bin Laden 1st XV or the Billy Wright memorial cup?

Peace

Was Billy Wright a terrorist? Great centre-half.

Gandhi was a terrorist, according to your lot too Pete. As was Nelson Mandela by Biltongs lot. Funny how times change eh?

Ah but Nelson was a terrorist, by any popular interpretation. Ghandi was however just annoying, I much preferred him in 'Sexy Beast' with Ray Winstone.

Sorry if I piddled anyone off with the comment folks but it is the truth. Some may call them freedom fighters and some may seek to demonise them but if someone has used or incited murder for any gain they are a terrorist in my book even if they do smile and wear a toga

What do ya mean my lot anyway Gibbo, the Irish? The Irish saw Ghandi as a terrorist?

Pete,
You didnt pish anyone off. What you said was true and in jest too.

I like the Irish bit... I love ya man.

Did you know Gandhi had a Paddy-tinged accent? True.

"Bejaypers, “An eye for an eye only ends up making the whole world blind.“

He really was a roysh smortorse tho.

red_stag wrote:

Mickado wrote:When you're a slave in your own land, every act of defiance is a political statement.

It's now a modern and democratic organisation which doesn't base all of their desicions on the all mighty dollar, which is more than can be said for many other sporting governing bodies, in Ireland or abroad.

Give over.

They are money hungry.

They're a not for profit organisation, they have democratically elected leaders and the money that they earn from ticket sales, or ground sharing projects goes directly back into the game. I can't find any figures on how many people they employ but wiki has "limited full time staff" listed. Very few people take a wage from them, so desicions are not made for personal gain (see FIFA).

Mick,

There is the difference. The GAA are influenced by the mighty dollar but not for personal gain.

MBTGOG wrote:
I'm going to paraphrase the doctor from last night's show but as he says, there are kids who are taking these supplements are building bodies that their bone structures can't handle. Warriors muscles on kids bones. This as he said has led to more long bone injuries and other things I can't remember off the top of my head.

Munsty that is fair enough and it is actually a point I agree with and one I have raised elsewhere in the past.

What I do disagree with, and where the misconception is, is that it is suppliments which are too blame.

Suppliments do not increase muscle mass or improve performance, this is the crux of my point. Training increases muscle mass and improves performance, and this is faciliated by diet which may or may not involve dietary suppliments. The suppliments are not actually key at all.

For example increased protein in take does not lead to increased muscle mass. Training does. Your body absorbes what it needs and excretes the rest. Inversly insufficiant protein will lead to poor recovery and eventually injury.

The only way were someone can build additional muscle, beyond what their body can handle is via PEDs. That is a different kettle of fish and where a distinction needs to be drawn. The misconption comes because the fitness industry uses illegally enhanced athletes and models to endorse and advertise their products to give an impression that their product does something it doesn't, in fact in most cases their product does nothing at all.

Sorry I don't mean to have a go but it is something I feel strongly about.

Anyone doing high or even moderate levels of training needs to ensure they have a good diet, paradoxically you see so many idiots who train a couple of times a week who can't go anywhere without an expensive maximuscle shake thinking it will turn them into mr olympia.

There are just so many misconceptions and myths out there.

Seriously Mick? They have a good deal of full time staff, they are employing about 20 or so footballers around the country under the development officer tag. The head honchos get pretty big cash and they are a pretty big money making organisation with some of their ticket prices.

I dislike Ghandi, his little eyes were too close together Gibbo and Mandella was a media tart. Che always seemed pretty cool but I always reckon he'd have smelled a little fusty, all that sweat etc. Jesus was a peace lover but anyone that wear sandals cannot be trusted.

The famous Che Guevara drawing was drawn by an Irishman, supporting the rebels as usual like....

Im with Mick here. You have to compare them with other sporting organisations(near all rife with corruption & greed) and when you do - they are a credit to our country and our heritage. From parish up, its a marvelous and well run organisation.By a massive amount of non-paid volunteers. Im really proud of it. No sheet. I love it. Specially the hurling side of it.

Long live the GAA!

rodders wrote:

MBTGOG wrote:
I'm going to paraphrase the doctor from last night's show but as he says, there are kids who are taking these supplements are building bodies that their bone structures can't handle. Warriors muscles on kids bones. This as he said has led to more long bone injuries and other things I can't remember off the top of my head.

Munsty that is fair enough and it is actually a point I agree with and one I have raised elsewhere in the past.

What I do disagree with, and where the misconception is, is that it is suppliments which are too blame.

Suppliments do not increase muscle mass or improve performance, this is the crux of my point. Training increases muscle mass and improves performance, and this is faciliated by diet which may or may not involve dietary suppliments. The suppliments are not actually key at all.

For example increased protein in take does not lead to increased muscle mass. Training does. Your body absorbes what it needs and excretes the rest. Inversly insufficiant protein will lead to poor recovery and eventually injury.

The only way were someone can build additional muscle, beyond what their body can handle is via PEDs. That is a different kettle of fish and where a distinction needs to be drawn. The misconption comes because the fitness industry uses illegally enhanced athletes and models to endorse and advertise their products to give an impression that their product does something it doesn't, in fact in most cases their product does nothing at all.

Sorry I don't mean to have a go but it is something I feel strongly about.

Anyone doing high or even moderate levels of training needs to ensure they have a good diet, paradoxically you see so many idiots who train a couple of times a week who can't go anywhere without an expensive maximuscle shake thinking it will turn them into mr olympia.

There are just so many misconceptions and myths out there.

That's fair enough but some supplements can push kids to levels their body can't take. I certainly agree they don't just grow muscles but they do push you to levels of training you may not be able to achieve purely from a healthy diet. The supplements are easy to get in as they are refined and don't add in the other elements you might get in chicken for example. That is the danger where kids are putting more than their body can handle.

Pete330v2 wrote:I dislike Ghandi, his little eyes were too close together Gibbo and Mandella was a media tart. Che always seemed pretty cool but I always reckon he'd have smelled a little fusty, all that sweat etc. Jesus was a peace lover but anyone that wear sandals cannot be trusted.

How about flip-flops?

Pete330v2 wrote:I dislike Ghandi, his little eyes were too close together Gibbo and Mandella was a media tart. Che always seemed pretty cool but I always reckon he'd have smelled a little fusty, all that sweat etc. Jesus was a peace lover but anyone that wear sandals cannot be trusted.

Orange crocs ok tho, ja Pete?

Gibson wrote:Im with Mick here. You have to compare them with other sporting organisations(near all rife with corruption & greed) and when you do - they are a credit to our country and our heritage. From parish up, its a marvelous and well run organistion. Im really proud of it. No sheet. I love it.

Long live the GAA!

When you compare it to other organisations, they do come out well though it doesn't mean they don't have flaws. The 'ban' I still think was wrong but thankfully that time has passed.

The GAA is a decnet setup but it is not the great thing some people see it as, it can be a bit corrupt at times. Oblivious to some things as well. See Waterford's troubles for that.

Rodders,

Just something to add to the supplement discussion, which is something our lecturers ask a lot. Is it still right for people to take them and fair if people from developing countries who want to compete can't afford those products?

It's an interesting question.

Us Paddies, we love an aul moan. Specially about our own - if they do well. I love that too.

I mean Bono FFS!

You could argue Munsty, that the supplements are a way to even up advantages that those who live in high Altitude countries have, like higher VO2 max (I think that's their advantage, it's something like that anwyay.)

The supplements in our day were cod-liver oil and a kick in de arse.

VO2 Max? WTF is that when its awake - shampoo? Aftershave? The Core?


Dont answer those questions. I dont want to know. I feel inadequate enough as it is.

Im going for a bike ride. I must slap on some VO2 and jerk me Core.

2nd and 3rd for Froome and Wiggins in the TdF today

MBTGOG wrote:
That's fair enough but some supplements can push kids to levels their body can't take. I certainly agree they don't just grow muscles but they do push you to levels of training you may not be able to achieve purely from a healthy diet. The supplements are easy to get in as they are refined and don't add in the other elements you might get in chicken for example. That is the danger where kids are putting more than their body can handle.

Again I don't agree with that. But we can agree to disagree on this. There is no legally available suppliment which can allow someone to increase their performance beyond their natural ability. That is why they are legal because they do not contain anything that is not naturally occuring or can't be obtained from other dietary sources.

Certain high impact exercise can damage growth plates in young atheletes and coaches need to be aware of this but that is nothing whatsoever to do with suppliments.

The biggest risk to kids and young people by far is doing too little exercise and training, not doing too much.

vO2 max is your highest oxygen intake, it's a phyiscal fitness test basically I'm going to take a rest from the gym today. Done it back to back and my arms are killign me. Saturday/Sunday on the back of some running and I'm sorted.

Sounds like you need some protein and creatine Thom.....

Thomond wrote:You could argue Munsty, that the supplements are a way to even up advantages that those who live in high Altitude countries have, like higher VO2 max (I think that's their advantage, it's something like that anwyay.)

And that's a fair enough argument. But how about the British cycling team using NASA technology and then destroying it so no one else could get it?

I don't have the answer but it provides interesting discussion.

Rodders, the past 5 days I have dug up a garden, cut about half a tree of wood been to the gym 4 times, ran 8kms in 50 minutes, Cycled 7kms, and done some forwards which also involved sprinting. I think I'm entitled to a few days off!

30 minutes every day Thomond.

Ah Thom jeebus man! You can't get a suppliment to increase your VO2 max man! Thats crazy talk!

VO2 max is a sea level measurement.

Altitude training is nothing to do with VO2 max. At altitude there is less o2 in the air so more red blood cells are produced by your body to transport the o2 around the blood. When you move back to sea level you have more red blood cells to transport the oxygen around....er something like that anyways.

I know that, I was just saying some guys have that advatnage of livign at altitude, so they can perform better at low altitudes, other guys feel they mightn't last as long so need to develop a great gap from the beginning. I may be stupid but I'm not an idiot. I explained it badly.

30 minutes of what?

Thomond wrote:Rodders, the past 5 days I have dug up a garden, cut about half a tree of wood been to the gym 4 times, ran 8kms in 50 minutes, Cycled 7kms, and done some forwards which also involved sprinting. I think I'm entitled to a few days off!

You see if you'd been using holland and barrett whey protein (as advertised by martin corry) you could have done all that in the same day....

Only messing here have a

One for Munsty too

Rodders,

Just watching the programme on RTE again about the supplements and drugs. If I were you, make an effort to watch it, it's Professor Brendan Buckley that you need to listen to. He makes some excellent points.

Thomond wrote:I know that, I was just saying some guys have that advatnage of livign at altitude, so they can perform better at low altitudes, other guys feel they mightn't last as long so need to develop a great gap from the beginning. I may be stupid but I'm not an idiot. I explained it badly.

30 minutes of what?

Exercise Thomond. We're supposed to do 30 minutes everyday. That's what they say anyways.

rodders wrote:

Thomond wrote:Rodders, the past 5 days I have dug up a garden, cut about half a tree of wood been to the gym 4 times, ran 8kms in 50 minutes, Cycled 7kms, and done some forwards which also involved sprinting. I think I'm entitled to a few days off!

You see if you'd been using holland and barrett whey protein (as advertised by martin corry) you could have done all that in the same day....

Only messing here have a

One for Munsty too

I did the garden in 2 with my dad, and did the 8kms and a gym session in one day


Yeah, the professor is about 30 minutes in, just after the rugby I think and he has some interesting points. I found the whole genetic doping thing interesting, a bit like slective breeding in the farming sector.


I thought it was an hour? I have done about 15 minutes of walking today to reduce some stiffness in the muscles, might go around and knock a ball around later

I will watch it indeed Munsty. Laters.... oh and stay offa drugs kids..... ....

There is something in the air. A fellow solicitor's mother is the secretary of their chapel. They have advertised for a Minister and the only applicant is a pre op transexual who is suing the central church for sacking him for conducting his own wife's funeral in a skirt!

His trial period starts Sunday

Glas a du wrote:There is something in the air. A fellow solicitor's mother is the secretary of their chapel. They have advertised for a Minister and the only applicant is a pre op transexual who is suing the central church for sacking him for conducting his own wife's funeral in a skirt!

His trial period starts Sunday

He gets periods on trial as well? Man, the wonders of Modern Science.

Glas a du wrote:There is something in the air. A fellow solicitor's mother is the secretary of their chapel. They have advertised for a Minister and the only applicant is a pre op transexual who is suing the central church for sacking him for conducting his own wife's funeral in a skirt!

His trial period starts Sunday

Ummm....?........

There are a lot of myths surrounding young people, weight training and supplements. Supplements are not capable of increasing muscle mass. If you take protein shakes and don't do any training, you will simply get fat. Supplements are exactly what the name suggests. They also provide what is already found naturally within the human body. Creatine is found in the muscles in every human being. Protein are nutrients found in every human being. So basically it supplements your lifestyle/training. Supplements do not give people super powers. Nor are they nearly as important as what a person eats. Diet is also a much bigger problem in young people than any legal supplements.

Rodders - I hugely respect your opinions on these subjects. You believe that you can have too much muscle mass for your height/natural build, correct? I might need some advice on this.

If you have too much muscle mass for your frame you can lost speed, I'm pretty sure but other things can probably happen too, you would probably be more prone to certain injuries too.

Gaining strength and building the right muscle fibres can also increase your speed though. Hence why most sprinters look jacked. I do agree however that an excess of muscle mass is unnecessary and potentially detrimental to an athlete's goals.

For a rugby player/forward, there is need for more hypertrophy though.

Rory I believe you can have disproportionately strong muscles in relation to your connective tissue, which takes longer to strengthen, and skeletal system. However I doubt unless you have been using PEDs and/or have gained a significant amount of bulk very quickly that this would happen.

I'm not expert though as many will tell you!

In terms of optimum weight, well thats a personal thing so it comes down to a bit of trial and error I suppose. You just have to see what works best for you but in my opinion rapid weight gain and loss is a bad idea generally.

Of course, it's aminly about balance, if you have too much you lose spped and are more susceptible to certain types of injures.


Hypertrophy is just a fancy word for increasing muscle mass isn't it? Smart arse.

Supplements are just milk powder and citric acid.

Rory_Gallagher wrote:There are a lot of myths surrounding young people, weight training and supplements. Supplements are not capable of increasing muscle mass. If you take protein shakes and don't do any training, you will simply get fat. Supplements are exactly what the name suggests. They also provide what is already found naturally within the human body. Creatine is found in the muscles in every human being. Protein are nutrients found in every human being. So basically it supplements your lifestyle/training. Supplements do not give people super powers. Nor are they nearly as important as what a person eats. Diet is also a much bigger problem in young people than any legal supplements.

Rodders - I hugely respect your opinions on these subjects. You believe that you can have too much muscle mass for your height/natural build, correct? I might need some advice on this.

Rory,

Just because something is in the human body doesn't mean it is good to have more of it in there. The point with the fears people have are people are getting too much of a substance in their body which is pushing them to levels the rest of their body can't handle.

Yeah, hypertrophy is gaining lean muscle mass. Using big words covers up the fact I often talk rubbish.

Well I am planning to make a return to rugby and play as an 8, so I will have to gain a fair bit more size I think. I am 6 foot 3, so any ideas what I should set as a realistic goal? I am already about 102kg (16 stone).

Rory,

What level will you be playing at and honestly, what kind of shape is that 102KG?

MBTGOG wrote:

Rory,

Just because something is in the human body doesn't mean it is good to have more of it in there. The point with the fears people have are people are getting too much of a substance in their body which is pushing them to levels the rest of their body can't handle.

Well that completely depends on your lifestyle. Someone who is training at the elite level will be eating far more calories than the average person. Michael Phelps the swimmer eats 10,000 calories per day, which would lead to severe health problems for the average person. For him, an excess of carbohydrates, proteins etc are essential, considering the training he does.

I don't understand what you mean when you say "pushing them to levels their body can't handle". What do you mean? Supplements cannot make a person bigger, stronger, faster, or anything like that, if that is what you are implying.

It probably defends on you're body fat ratio really. Aren't most eights of similar build? Obviously if you are working out a bit more you will gain weight but you know muscle weighs more than fat and everything. About what you are is probably arlight if you are pretty fit.


Don;t focus on being an 8 would be some of my advice though. Being versatile is what will get you gametime

Rory_Gallagher wrote:

MBTGOG wrote:

Rory,

Just because something is in the human body doesn't mean it is good to have more of it in there. The point with the fears people have are people are getting too much of a substance in their body which is pushing them to levels the rest of their body can't handle.

Well that completely depends on your lifestyle. Someone who is training at the elite level will be eating far more calories than the average person. Michael Phelps the swimmer eats 10,000 calories per day, which would lead to severe health problems for the average person. For him, an excess of carbohydrates, proteins etc are essential, considering the training he does.

I don't understand what you mean when you say "pushing them to levels their body can't handle". What do you mean? Supplements cannot make a person bigger, stronger, faster, or anything like that, if that is what you are implying.

If you read the conversation between myself and Rodders, I don't believe that, it's training that gets you to that level. But supplements can have the effect of pushing your levels of training to higher than you can without them. This is turn can put muscle mass on the body of a still growing teenager that can cause real long term injury danger.

That is what I am talking about.

I have no opinion on it one way or the other but I think I understand what both of you are saying. I don't see how its that confusing to figure out what they mean even if you disagree.

Rory I think Munsty is saying that these things are helping young people to push the limits of their muscles before their bodies are done developing. Supplements cannot make a person bigger stronger but they allow you to do the necessary training to do this.

If you are pushing the limits on an underdeveloped body you could cause damage.

MBTGOG wrote:Rory,

What level will you be playing at and honestly, what kind of shape is that 102KG?

As high a level as I can get really. I look slightly bigger than the average person I guess, but not overly big at all. I probably don't look like 102kg but I have pretty big legs which seem to make up the majority of my size.

If you are asking if I am carrying a lot of fat, well not really. I'm not skinny, but also not fat. Just average.

Rory_Gallagher wrote:
Well I am planning to make a return to rugby and play as an 8, so I will have to gain a fair bit more size I think. I am 6 foot 3, so any ideas what I should set as a realistic goal? I am already about 102kg (16 stone).

Thats actually impossible to answer rory because it comes down to body fat, bone density etc. everyone is different.

I would say train hard, eat well, rest and build funtional muscle mass gradually. Compound exercises rather than isolation. 8- 10 reps for Hypertrophy, 1-6 for strength and train in cycles starting with the former. Don't train the latter if you are tired.

Warm up and warm down and listen to your body. Don't follow anyone elses plan because everyone is different and most importantly of all......

..... don't listen to anyone off the internet because they are most likely an idiot....