Howley says he wouldn't do anything different on the Oz tour. Bar the last seconds of the second Test

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Rob Howley felt Wales would have won the series if Wales had of made better choices in the dying minutes of the second test down under.

Simon Thomas writes in the WM

Rob Howley had been looking to take a southern hemisphere scalp
Rob Howley insists he wouldn’t have done anything differently on Wales’ tour of Australia if he had his time again.

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Despite having gone down to a 3-0 whitewash at the hands of the Wallabies, Howley stands by his selection policy during the Test series.

He says it never crossed his mind to drop skipper Sam Warburton and maintains Rhys Priestland is still his number one outside-half.

The only thing he would change about the trip is the final couple of minutes in Melbourne, as he feels Wales would have gone on to win the series if they had held on for victory in that heartbreaking second Test.



While he acknowledges there are lessons to be learned from the tour, he is comfortable with the decisions he made at the helm, having taken over as interim head coach from the injured Warren Gatland.

“I wouldn’t have done anything differently,” he said.

“I wouldn’t change anything – apart from the last 90 seconds of that second Test.”

It was Howley’s same-again selection policy which provoked the most debate during the series, particularly the way he stuck by Priestland at No. 10 ahead of James Hook.

There were also calls in some quarters for captain Warburton to be replaced on the openside flank by Justin Tipuric.

But, having had three weeks to reflect on the trip, Howley remains convinced that he, and his fellow coaches, made the right choices.

He fully accepts and welcomes the fact that Welsh supporters will always have strong opinions on selection.

But he says it’s the job of a coach to make a cool-headed decision based on all the available information.

“When you have victory in your grasp and all of a sudden you lose, emotions run high and people react pretty harshly on the performances of players, coaches and the team,” said the former scrum-half.

“The great thing about Wales that I love, through my playing career as well as my coaching, is everyone has an opinion that is so different from one to the other.

“The reason they have an opinion is they care about the game. I talk to my mates and they argue about the best XV.

“It’s good to have that debate and I try to understand how the public see it.

“But, as a coach, you need to have all the information so you are able to make a fair judgement on selection.

“The process is always a long one because we go through every position.

“We have to look beyond what I call the Scrum V moments.

“From a supporters’ perspective, you see someone making a brilliant break and even though he hasn’t touched the ball for 50-odd minutes, all of a sudden he’s had an outstanding game because everyone remembers that break he’s made.

“Conversely a bad pass, a bad kick or a bad tackle is remembered.

“People watching the game in a pub, or in a relaxed mode at home, remember those highlights and then put a picture in their head.

“We look at everything. That’s hopefully why we are here.

“For example, people criticised Rhys Priestland for not holding on to Sam Warburton’s pass when we had a five-on-two in the first Test.

“But what no-one knew at the time was Rhys had taken a stamp on his elbow and couldn’t straighten his arm. So he couldn’t reach up to catch the ball and why he dropped it.

“They are things that happen in Test match football and these are the kinds of fine details we need to consider as coaches.”

Howley continued: “When you watch a game live, you only remember 38 per cent of it. “That’s what clinical evidence shows.

“We did a really good exercise as coaches out in South Africa in 2008.

“After the first Test, when we got blown away in Bloemfontein, we sat down and marked the players out of 10 for their performances. Then we went and looked at the game, once, twice, we came back and our marks changed so much.

“It was amazing. It was an exercise which we remind ourselves of now.

“As coaches, we have to consider every second of every minute.

“We don’t take selection lightly and I think we are fair.

“I stand by my selection absolutely and I like to think all the other coaches would as well.”

It was Scarlets play-maker Priestland who was the subject of the greatest public clamour for change, but Howley stood firmly by him Down Under and continues to do so now.

“Rhys has played a huge part in what Wales have achieved over the last 12 months,” he said.

“Everyone knows about his performances at the World Cup and he was exceptional in the second half of the Grand Slam game against France in terms of playing territory.

“Rhys knows in certain components of his game he wasn’t at his best in Australia and that overall his play wasn’t to the standard he achieved in the World Cup.

“But he has only been playing at 10 for Wales for 10 months

“You talk to Neil Jenkins about the criticism he had over a decade of playing there.

“Number 10 has always been a big focus in Wales and that will never change.

“Our overriding opinion throughout the Test series was that Rhys was our number one fly-half. And I still believe that to be the case.

“There are always going to be challenges for Rhys moving forward in his game.

“It will be interesting to watch the couple of months in September, October going into the autumn series.

“But, to my mind, he is still our number one fly-half.

“Is it right to be dropped if you play poorly in one game?”

As for Warburton, it’s clear that axing him from the team was never on the agenda Down Under.

“Everyone spoke about Justin Tipuric and how well he played in the Brumbies game, which he did. But no-one back home saw it,” said Howley.

“Justin will play many years for Wales. He is a fantastic player.

“But I never saw that question mark about Sam, regarding whether he should be dropped. I just didn’t see it.

“It didn’t enter my mind. Not at all. I didn’t think about making a change.

“Sam is an excellent captain and we won the Grand Slam with him at the helm.

“All of a sudden, after a couple of performances, people are calling for him to be dropped. I never saw that.

“Sam holds himself as an ultimate professional on and off the field.

“He hadn’t played for about three months going into the first Test.

“Hats off to him for getting through that game having not played for that period of time.”

As for the series as a whole, Howley is left reflecting on what might have been, with Wales having been in a position to win all three Tests.

“The first thing to say is it was an absorbing thrilling, series,” he said.

“It was edge-of-the-seat stuff.

“There were a lot of things we did well and we can take heart from getting close to Australia.

“But, as I said straight after the last Test, we aren’t hiding away from the 3-0 whitewash.

“I think Welsh rugby has hopefully come a long way, so we don’t want taps on the back when we’ve lost.

“We want the win. There were fine margins between the two sides, but huge consequences in terms of the result on the scoreboard.

“Ultimately, areas and components of our game that were strong in the Six Nations let us down.

“Maybe that’s through being away from home or one or two boys just losing their nerve or maybe being really enthusiastic in terms of trying to sort out problems on your own as opposed to as a side.

“At times, it was through our own lack of discipline and our own errors.

“I still believe we need to be more street-wise and more understanding of the referee.

“Above all, it’s about mastering that moment and holding your nerve when you go into the lead in the last 10 minutes of the game.

“You look back on those opportunities and it could have been so different.”

That was never more evident than during the pivotal second Test in Melbourne, where Wales were ahead and in possession with less than two minutes to go, only to lose to a last-second penalty after kicking away possession through Priestland and conceding two penalties.

“There were varying degrees of opinion within the camp about what we should and shouldn’t have done,” said Howley.

“Everyone had an opinion and the more senior you were the more of an opinion you had. The majority of players agreed with what Rhys had done in terms of kicking the ball. It was just what happened after that.

“The ball was 70-odd metres from our try line and all we needed to do was defend, which we had done so gallantly throughout the 80 minutes.

“But we made individual decisions through a lack of discipline which resulted in us giving penalties away.

“Looking back, the emotions are mainly disappointment and frustration at what might have been.

“I’ve never been in a situation where you’re winning when the hooter goes and you end up losing.

“I certainly didn’t think we deserved to lose that game. That was the galling aspect of it.

“It was pretty devastating, but I was proud of the players in the way they reacted and lifted themselves back up off the floor for the final Test, where we probably produced our best performance of the series.”

Looking ahead, Howley concluded: “This team is getting ready for the next World Cup in 2015 and with that in mind we have to learn from the experience in Australia.

“We’ve nailed the close games in the northern hemisphere, now we’ve got to do that against the southern hemisphere sides.

“And I’d like to think that will happen in the autumn series.”



Read More http://www.walesonline.co.uk/rugbynation/rugby-news/2012/07/20/rob-howley-on-australia-tour-i-wouldn-t-have-done-anything-differently-91466-31438808/#ixzz21IIlL1fo

maestegmafia wrote:"It was my first opportunity to be head coach and I really enjoyed it. It certainly hasn't put me off"

Yes, his first opportunity at any level. I really don't like this at all.

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:

maestegmafia wrote:"It was my first opportunity to be head coach and I really enjoyed it. It certainly hasn't put me off"

Yes, his first opportunity at any level. I really don't like this at all.

I think Rob Howley said that not me...

maestegmafia wrote:

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:

maestegmafia wrote:"It was my first opportunity to be head coach and I really enjoyed it. It certainly hasn't put me off"

Yes, his first opportunity at any level. I really don't like this at all.

I think Rob Howley said that not me...

Don't worry, maesteg. You're next up if Howley falls over a paint pot in the next few weeks

sugarNspikes wrote:

maestegmafia wrote:

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:

maestegmafia wrote:"It was my first opportunity to be head coach and I really enjoyed it. It certainly hasn't put me off"

Yes, his first opportunity at any level. I really don't like this at all.

I think Rob Howley said that not me...

Don't worry, maesteg. You're next up if Howley falls over a paint pot in the next few weeks

I like that even less!

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:

sugarNspikes wrote:

maestegmafia wrote:

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:

maestegmafia wrote:"It was my first opportunity to be head coach and I really enjoyed it. It certainly hasn't put me off"

Yes, his first opportunity at any level. I really don't like this at all.

I think Rob Howley said that not me...

Don't worry, maesteg. You're next up if Howley falls over a paint pot in the next few weeks

I like that even less!

Better option than bringing Baber in though.

No question!

Ignore the trolls boys thats what the mods keep asking us to do...

Let's keep this going until November.

Why Novemeber? The match is in December ain't it?

We have a few warm up games (against the small fry) in November before the 'Big One' on the 1st December.

Looking forward to it already

The series against Australia was frustrating to watch. The first match we were undercooked through lack of preparation and deserved to lose.
We could have won the last two matches but didn't, however even if we had won I would still have been unhappy at our style of play.
To quote the great Carwyn James, "it's not if you win, it's how you win"
The way we played was banal in the extreme. Rugby is about playing with the ball not kicking it away and that together with our woeful line out meant we hardly touched the ball for extended periods. That's not the rugby I want to watch. Rugby should not be a competition of defences.

So for Howley to come out with these comments leaves me even more frustrated. He brought nothing new to our game plan. (kicking the ball {badly} to an Aussie back 3 is a stupid tactic in the first place and cost us at least two tries)
This is the best team we've ever had but our backs lack imagination, play as individuals rather than a team. There were, all too brief signs, of a skillful offloading game.
Get rid of Howley, let him prove himself as a club coach. Bring in a new dynamic attack coach, play some rugby that raises the roof instead of in fear of being penalised for ceiling off!

Completely agree with you there, Norfolklass.

We were incredibly lucky to get out of jail in those last two games. The Wallabies also seemed banal at times but were slightly more better with the ball in possession... and lucky as well in that the ball was continually being kicked back down their throats. That was a real blessing.

I was at that last game and I must say that the Wales fans are the best... they deserved more.

The 3-0 series result was very flattering to us I thought and perhaps harsh on Wales. OK, we had some top players out injured (Wales had some players out too) but there are definite cracks in our game plan & execution which will be severely punished by the likes of NZ and SA in the coming weeks. If we don't lift our game more we will no doubt be susceptible to a defeat on Dec 1 in Cardiff.

Yes agree with both those posts & although I was a great admirer of Howley as a player I can't help feel he may have gone into coaching a bit too soon internationally.

Wales definitely need a plan B in the 3s & a better kicking game. I would find it very frustrating if I were Welsh (!) to see the way that series unfolded not just because of the results but the lack of clarity of thinking in order to change the gameplan around.
Most frustrating of all is that Wales had the players at their disposal to achieve this.

Norfolklass wrote:

The series against Australia was frustrating to watch. The first match we were undercooked through lack of preparation and deserved to lose.
We could have won the last two matches but didn't, however even if we had won I would still have been unhappy at our style of play.
To quote the great Carwyn James, "it's not if you win, it's how you win"
The way we played was banal in the extreme. Rugby is about playing with the ball not kicking it away and that together with our woeful line out meant we hardly touched the ball for extended periods. That's not the rugby I want to watch. Rugby should not be a competition of defences.

So for Howley to come out with these comments leaves me even more frustrated. He brought nothing new to our game plan. (kicking the ball {badly} to an Aussie back 3 is a stupid tactic in the first place and cost us at least two tries)
This is the best team we've ever had but our backs lack imagination, play as individuals rather than a team. There were, all too brief signs, of a skillful offloading game.
Get rid of Howley, let him prove himself as a club coach. Bring in a new dynamic attack coach, play some rugby that raises the roof instead of in fear of being penalised for ceiling off!

Have you thought of the possibility that this is Gatland's game plan?

How we played in the summer was pretty much identical to the 6 nations, we were just dominated at the breakdown for two of the tests and missing Roberts so we couldn't get any go forward or momentum. I hardy think that Howley had a massive say in how we played, he's just a puppet. I agree though that he should be let go to prove himself as a club coach and develop his skills. But to think that things will suddenly get better just isn't the case imo. Gatland has the say at the end of the day and his game plan is the game plan we must play (according to him).

gowales wrote:

Norfolklass wrote:

The series against Australia was frustrating to watch. The first match we were undercooked through lack of preparation and deserved to lose.
We could have won the last two matches but didn't, however even if we had won I would still have been unhappy at our style of play.
To quote the great Carwyn James, "it's not if you win, it's how you win"
The way we played was banal in the extreme. Rugby is about playing with the ball not kicking it away and that together with our woeful line out meant we hardly touched the ball for extended periods. That's not the rugby I want to watch. Rugby should not be a competition of defences.

So for Howley to come out with these comments leaves me even more frustrated. He brought nothing new to our game plan. (kicking the ball {badly} to an Aussie back 3 is a stupid tactic in the first place and cost us at least two tries)
This is the best team we've ever had but our backs lack imagination, play as individuals rather than a team. There were, all too brief signs, of a skillful offloading game.
Get rid of Howley, let him prove himself as a club coach. Bring in a new dynamic attack coach, play some rugby that raises the roof instead of in fear of being penalised for ceiling off!

Have you thought of the possibility that this is Gatland's game plan?

How we played in the summer was pretty much identical to the 6 nations, we were just dominated at the breakdown for two of the tests and missing Roberts so we couldn't get any go forward or momentum. I hardy think that Howley had a massive say in how we played, he's just a puppet. I agree though that he should be let go to prove himself as a club coach and develop his skills. But to think that things will suddenly get better just isn't the case imo. Gatland has the say at the end of the day and his game plan is the game plan we must play (according to him).

So we should get rid of Gatland and Howley and hope some better players come along?

?

Where did i say that...

Well what are you suggesting?

gowales wrote:

Norfolklass wrote:

The series against Australia was frustrating to watch. The first match we were undercooked through lack of preparation and deserved to lose.
We could have won the last two matches but didn't, however even if we had won I would still have been unhappy at our style of play.
To quote the great Carwyn James, "it's not if you win, it's how you win"
The way we played was banal in the extreme. Rugby is about playing with the ball not kicking it away and that together with our woeful line out meant we hardly touched the ball for extended periods. That's not the rugby I want to watch. Rugby should not be a competition of defences.

So for Howley to come out with these comments leaves me even more frustrated. He brought nothing new to our game plan. (kicking the ball {badly} to an Aussie back 3 is a stupid tactic in the first place and cost us at least two tries)
This is the best team we've ever had but our backs lack imagination, play as individuals rather than a team. There were, all too brief signs, of a skillful offloading game.
Get rid of Howley, let him prove himself as a club coach. Bring in a new dynamic attack coach, play some rugby that raises the roof instead of in fear of being penalised for ceiling off!

Have you thought of the possibility that this is Gatland's game plan?

How we played in the summer was pretty much identical to the 6 nations, we were just dominated at the breakdown for two of the tests and missing Roberts so we couldn't get any go forward or momentum. I hardy think that Howley had a massive say in how we played, he's just a puppet. I agree though that he should be let go to prove himself as a club coach and develop his skills. But to think that things will suddenly get better just isn't the case imo. Gatland has the say at the end of the day and his game plan is the game plan we must play (according to him).

My complaint about Howley is that he brought nothing new to the game plan. The fact that it was Gatland's game plan imho is self evident. And there's no need to be patronising. I was also disappointed with his team selection, picking players who were not match fit and his comments about selection indicate rigid thinking. I don't see what good Howley brings to the team.

Norfolklass said,

'And there's no need to be patronising.'

Quite - it appears some posters have to get personal or accuse you of being a troll if you take a contrary stance to them.

BigTrevsbigmac wrote:Norfolklass said,

'And there's no need to be patronising.'

Quite - it appears some posters have to get personal or accuse you of being a troll if you take a contrary stance to them.

I think you'll find that posters are accused of trolling when they continuously post on threads in a way that they know will annoy other posters.

Norfolklass wrote: I don't see what good Howley brings to the team.

The Welsh backline have played with some fantastic fluency in some games and not in others. They have tactically kicked well in some and not in others.

Why is this inconsistency in performance appropriated to the coach and not the players in the situation they were in when they did something well, or when they did something poorly...???

maestegmafia wrote:Well what are you suggesting?

I'm not suggesting anything, just saying it as i see it

maestegmafia wrote:

Norfolklass wrote: I don't see what good Howley brings to the team.

The Welsh backline have played with some fantastic fluency in some games and not in others. They have tactically kicked well in some and not in others.

Why is this inconsistency in performance appropriated to the coach and not the players in the situation they were in when they did something well, or when they did something poorly...???

Fair play Maes, you actually made me laugh out loud with that one. We haven't had 'fluency' since 2008 in the backs, we don't play that way any more, it's kick/chase/defend/send Roberts and North on the crash.

The general consensus is right - Howley adds nothing, he's just there to pass messages on from Gatland & Edwards. But that doesn't require any intellect, so he's okay for that. Leave it as it is.

BigTrevsbigmac wrote:Norfolklass said,

'And there's no need to be patronising.'

Quite - it appears some posters have to get personal or accuse you of being a troll if you take a contrary stance to them.

Most astute post of 2012 so far! Dare to even hint at disagreeing with any of the hardcore element on here and they jump straight to accusations of 'wumming' and 'trolling', whatever the hell that is. The old 606 was miles better, and funnier.

Probably because it had more than 28 members.

Casartelli wrote:

maestegmafia wrote:

Norfolklass wrote: I don't see what good Howley brings to the team.

The Welsh backline have played with some fantastic fluency in some games and not in others. They have tactically kicked well in some and not in others.

Why is this inconsistency in performance appropriated to the coach and not the players in the situation they were in when they did something well, or when they did something poorly...???

Fair play Maes, you actually made me laugh out loud with that one. We haven't had 'fluency' since 2008 in the backs, we don't play that way any more, it's kick/chase/defend/send Roberts and North on the crash.

The general consensus is right - Howley adds nothing, he's just there to pass messages on from Gatland & Edwards. But that doesn't require any intellect, so he's okay for that. Leave it as it is.

My point is if so many of you think Howley is so poor, what do you think we should do? Get rid of him? get another guy in who is better, more established?

Yes.

But since Gatland is unfortunately going to be away with the Lions for a year, he is probably the best man for the job to take over since he knows the players and Gatland's game plan.

If we were going to get rid of Howley, i would have liked for it to have happened after the WC last year or after the 2013 Lions tour.

Howley can stay doing what he's doing now. Just get someone Southern Hemisphere in to tell him what to say while Gatland isn't there.

maestegmafia wrote:

BigTrevsbigmac wrote:Norfolklass said,

'And there's no need to be patronising.'

Quite - it appears some posters have to get personal or accuse you of being a troll if you take a contrary stance to them.

I think you'll find that posters are accused of trolling when they continuously post on threads in a way that they know will annoy other posters.

I like you and many other posters may be provocative but I don't deliberately go out to annoy people. I will certainly defend my corner if I don't agree with posters there is a difference there.
Some of my comments may annoy you but who's problem is that?

BigTrevsbigmac wrote:

maestegmafia wrote:

BigTrevsbigmac wrote:Norfolklass said,

'And there's no need to be patronising.'

Quite - it appears some posters have to get personal or accuse you of being a troll if you take a contrary stance to them.

I think you'll find that posters are accused of trolling when they continuously post on threads in a way that they know will annoy other posters.

I like you and many other posters may be provocative but I don't deliberately go out to annoy people. I will certainly defend my corner if I don't agree with posters there is a difference there.
Some of my comments may annoy you but who's problem is that?

Glad that you understand...!

Casartelli wrote:Howley can stay doing what he's doing now. Just get someone Southern Hemisphere in to tell him what to say while Gatland isn't there.

Sorry I don't understand your points guys. You think Howley is absolutely useless... But none of you want to get rid of him?

Casartelli wrote:Howley adds nothing,

Norfolklass wrote:
My complaint about Howley is that he brought nothing new to the game plan. The fact that it was Gatland's game plan imho is self evident. I was also disappointed with his team selection, picking players who were not match fit and his comments about selection indicate rigid thinking. I don't see what good Howley brings to the team.

gowales wrote:I hardy think that Howley had a massive say in how we played, he's just a puppet. I agree though that he should be let go to prove himself as a club coach and develop his skills.

But to think that things will suddenly get better just isn't the case imo. Gatland has the say at the end of the day and his game plan is the game plan we must play (according to him).

Norfolklass wrote:So for Howley to come out with these comments leaves me even more frustrated. He brought nothing new to our game plan. (kicking the ball {badly} to an Aussie back 3 is a stupid tactic in the first place and cost us at least two tries)
This is the best team we've ever had but our backs lack imagination, play as individuals rather than a team. There were, all too brief signs, of a skillful offloading game.
Get rid of Howley, let him prove himself as a club coach. Bring in a new dynamic attack coach, play some rugby that raises the roof instead of in fear of being penalised for ceiling off!

MM
It's a strange one...

On one hand Howley has little experience of coaching, even less so at the helm, and offers very little to an international team.

On the other hand who else is there to take his place?!

This pretty much just highlights the huge problems within the game in the NH, MJ was the same, just another one of the boys getting one of the biggest jobs in the world because his bosses like him, but then there are guys in jobs all over Wales who are definately not the best men for their jobs!

thebluesmancometh wrote:MM
It's a strange one...

On one hand Howley has little experience of coaching, even less so at the helm, and offers very little to an international team.

On the other hand who else is there to take his place?!

This pretty much just highlights the huge problems within the game in the NH, MJ was the same, just another one of the boys getting one of the biggest jobs in the world because his bosses like him, but then there are guys in jobs all over Wales who are definately not the best men for their jobs!

Howley played and coached under Gatland and Edwards at Wasps, he then became backs coach at Cardiff Blues, he started with Wales with Gatland and Edwards in late 2007, he has won more GSs with Wales than we have under any coach in forty years.

I think Wales not winning in Oz was more to do with knackered players rather than bad coaching decisions. I don't think Howley will do a bad job, I think so far he has done ok.

First I just need to adress that playing is not coaching, he could play under Gatland, Henry, and Sir Alex Ferguson and it would have no impact whatsoever on what kind of coach he'd be!!!

He became backs coach at the Blues by default, another player needing a job after retirement, from what I hear, and I may be wrong he had never considered coaching until retirement age, had never helped with age grade or academy teams etc... So what exactly entitled him to take a large paid coaching role at the Blues? Except for his mates all being in charge of course!

Then he was handed a very exciting backline from the academy set up, James, Roberts and 1/2p were electric for a few seasons, oh and don't forget Howley is a forward thinker and superb tactician because he was the first person ever to try to see the game at height.

I'd put our last 2 grand slams squarley at the feet of an innovative defence system, and then a good peice of forethought to bring through certain players playing a certain system.

Howley has never really done anything of note to impress, he is merely employing someone elses gameplan into someone elses style of play.

There are a lot of top backs coaches throughout Wales who are plying their trade, trying to be innovative and show what they can do with no recognition at all, and until ex players are forced to ply trades for a while and get promoted on how they perform and not who they are mates with we will always have a problem in Wales.

For the record I don't dislike Howley, he is prob the only person in place to take charge, but he could be so much better had he worked a few season with age grade or prem, then moved up when ready.

[quote="maestegmafia"]

thebluesmancometh wrote:MM
It's a strange one...

On one hand Howley has little experience of coaching, even less so at the helm, and offers very little to an international team.

On the other hand who else is there to take his place?!

This pretty much just highlights the huge problems within the game in the NH, MJ was the same, just another one of the boys getting one of the biggest jobs in the world because his bosses like him, but then there are guys in jobs all over Wales who are definately not the best men for their jobs!

Howley played and coached under Gatland and Edwards at Wasps, he then became backs coach at Cardiff Blues, he started with Wales with Gatland and Edwards in late 2007, he has won more GSs with Wales than we have under any coach in forty years.

I think Wales not winning in Oz was more to do with knackered players rather than bad coaching decisions. I don't think Howley will do a bad job, I think so far he has done ok.'

Howley never coached at Wasps. The only experience I recall prior to being assistant at Cardiff was a one off game in charge of the backs for the BaaBaas.

thebluesmancometh wrote:First I just need to adress that playing is not coaching, he could play under Gatland, Henry, and Sir Alex Ferguson and it would have no impact whatsoever on what kind of coach he'd be!!!

He became backs coach at the Blues by default, another player needing a job after retirement, from what I hear, and I may be wrong he had never considered coaching until retirement age, had never helped with age grade or academy teams etc... So what exactly entitled him to take a large paid coaching role at the Blues? Except for his mates all being in charge of course!

Then he was handed a very exciting backline from the academy set up, James, Roberts and 1/2p were electric for a few seasons, oh and don't forget Howley is a forward thinker and superb tactician because he was the first person ever to try to see the game at height.

I'd put our last 2 grand slams squarley at the feet of an innovative defence system, and then a good peice of forethought to bring through certain players playing a certain system.

Howley has never really done anything of note to impress, he is merely employing someone elses gameplan into someone elses style of play.

There are a lot of top backs coaches throughout Wales who are plying their trade, trying to be innovative and show what they can do with no recognition at all, and until ex players are forced to ply trades for a while and get promoted on how they perform and not who they are mates with we will always have a problem in Wales.

For the record I don't dislike Howley, he is prob the only person in place to take charge, but he could be so much better had he worked a few season with age grade or prem, then moved up when ready.

I have nothing to add to this except

+1.

LP

Here here

Most people agree that Howley has been over promoted too early. But this isn't necessarily his fault, Gatland brought him in & at the time he was desperate to obtain the jewel in the crown of his coaching team - Edwards.

It is likely that Gatts knew that Edwards was a fan of Howleys, as he (Gatland)was and they could work together as a team. Edwards was the main man & instrumental in Wales turnaround. I don't think there were many other options for a backs coach & even if there were would Gatland have considered them?

I agree with the 2 posters above.

BigTrevsbigmac wrote:I don't think there were many other options for a backs coach

I agree with the 2 posters above.

Contradicts somewhat with what you wrote though.

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:

thebluesmancometh wrote:
There are a lot of top backs coaches throughout Wales who are plying their trade

I have nothing to add to this except

+1.

[quote="maestegmafia"]

BigTrevsbigmac wrote:I don't think there were many other options for a backs coach

I agree with the 2 posters above.

Contradicts somewhat with what you wrote though.

Why? There were some choices but they were limited.
Gatts wanted someone who could work with Edwards & I believe that was as an important factor than getting a better backs coach per se.

There are possibly more choices now but as long as Gatts & Edwards are in place Howley is safe. Howley was in the right place at the right time (for him) at both the Blues & Wales,he had proved nothing as a coach before.

Norfolklass wrote:

The series against Australia was frustrating to watch. The first match we were undercooked through lack of preparation and deserved to lose.
We could have won the last two matches but didn't, however even if we had won I would still have been unhappy at our style of play.
To quote the great Carwyn James, "it's not if you win, it's how you win"
The way we played was banal in the extreme. Rugby is about playing with the ball not kicking it away and that together with our woeful line out meant we hardly touched the ball for extended periods. That's not the rugby I want to watch. Rugby should not be a competition of defences.

So for Howley to come out with these comments leaves me even more frustrated. He brought nothing new to our game plan. (kicking the ball {badly} to an Aussie back 3 is a stupid tactic in the first place and cost us at least two tries)
This is the best team we've ever had but our backs lack imagination, play as individuals rather than a team. There were, all too brief signs, of a skillful offloading game.
Get rid of Howley, let him prove himself as a club coach. Bring in a new dynamic attack coach, play some rugby that raises the roof instead of in fear of being penalised for ceiling off!

Excellent post, says it all. As you say, in vast tracts of the games we didn't see the ball at all. Given the intense conservatism of the coaching, I fear it will be more of the same in the AIs.

So it appears Howley will likely be awarded another crack of the whip for two AI tests and the six nations while Gats is on Lions duty.

It was always going to happen - there was no way the WRU were going to totally mess up the coaching team by bringing someone new to cover Gats, based on the results of 1 tour - particularly as that person would be totally green.

Their going to give Howley the year, as planned for last year, and see how he does.

We can only hope that he does well, particularly with us on home soil, and develops so he's a viable option to take over from Gats by 2015/16

I hope that there is an open selection on who will be the next welsh coach Elat the end of Gatlands tenure.

There are a number if valuable coaches building good reputations that may benefit Wales.

true there could (and should) be a number of candidates considered when Gats steps down and any of the Welsh coaches currently operating at a high level could be considered (even Phil Davies, Andy Hore or Darren Edwards or Easterby!) 3 years is a long time in rugby, where someone can create and destroy their rep easily - you only need to look at where Nige is now and compare to his Wales excursion. The WRU would hope that Howley puts his hand up to be including in the group thats considered though.

In the meantime I can't see them bringing in someone new to cover Gatland while he's at the Lions.

Maybe an adivser. Wayne Smith, Ian Foster or Robbie Deans would do

gowales wrote:Maybe an adivser. Wayne Smith, Ian Foster or Robbie Deans would do

Or Andrew Hore

Who better to unlock Australia than the ex Australian coach? Could Wales get him on board as an advisor in time for the AIs?

He'd have to leave Oz 1st, which doesn't seem to be happening. then Wales would need to 1. want to sack Gats, as you wouldn't be able to attract Deans with anything less than Head Coach position. 2. Somehow attract Deans and hope he signs.

He might chose a short term role in the advisory capacity, similar to Eddie Jones role with SA at 2007 RWC ?