Team GB

First topic message reminder :

Having watch Team GB bundle their way to a draw last night in the Olympic football a thought struck me, wouldn’t it be great to have a Team GB in the rugby union world, every four years we could form a team and take on the worlds bests SH teams in a test match series.

What do you guys think?

Ive already seen that article sin and it doesnt answer anything. Harrington wants them to represent GB for his own selfish reasons. He is afraid that he wont make it to the olympics so he wants them to represent GB to clear the way for him to represent ireland

"Rory has changed his management to a Dublin company and his career is in
the US now - being Irish will appeal to those millions of Irish
Americans."

i think your getting abit caught up in nationality and golf there mate. Him being Northern irish is no different anyway. Its all about the wins anyway.. If you also notice the EA tiger woods in europe has rory on the front cover but rickie fowler on the american version!!

mystiroakey wrote:Really, we dont in england, its all private sector- many will sponser kids and obviously we get very cheap membership and play county stuff- but how is the GUI funded?

Im not sure how its funded but if you ever watch amateur golf on sky you can see the irish players wearing the GUI clothing.

mystiroakey wrote:The fact is tho leinster you have to take the rough with the smooth- your football and cricketers mainly play under our system..

Golfers are never really funded anyway its way more private sector that gets them playing. And those golf courses rory played on are in the UK.

There really also wouldnt be any divide in ireland and it wouldnt affect your golfers at all. Golf is nothing like rugby

The GUI would have funded Rory as a kid to compete for Ireland all over the world as an amateur. And I'd be pretty sure that Rory would have played a lot of golf in the republic of Ireland.

The olyimpics is very unimpotant to golf lads- just remeber that- i am happy with whatever they choose for whatever reason. I cant say that gmac will be garanteed to be in the top 15 anyway! so the main question will be gmac- and to be honest it is allready annoying me! jeas its gonna create alot of issues over nothing in my eyes

Sin é wrote:

mystiroakey wrote:The fact is tho leinster you have to take the rough with the smooth- your football and cricketers mainly play under our system..

Golfers are never really funded anyway its way more private sector that gets them playing. And those golf courses rory played on are in the UK.

There really also wouldnt be any divide in ireland and it wouldnt affect your golfers at all. Golf is nothing like rugby

The GUI would have funded Rory as a kid to compete for Ireland all over the world as an amateur. And I'd be pretty sure that Rory would have played a lot of golf in the republic of Ireland.

Who funds the GUI!!!

Basically its clear to me that NI will put in its share - and NI is a net loss in tax to the rest of the UK. Therefore the GUI is part UK funded. this is kinda clear right?

mystiroakey wrote:"Rory has changed his management to a Dublin company and his career is in
the US now - being Irish will appeal to those millions of Irish
Americans."

i think your getting abit caught up in nationality and golf there mate. Him being Northern irish is no different anyway. Its all about the wins anyway.. If you also notice the EA tiger woods in europe has rory on the front cover but rickie fowler on the american version!!

Nothing to do with nationality - its all marketing. Rory's former manager didn't want Rory to play the US circuit, so it would be obvious that his biggest market potential would be in England.

Different story in the US where there are something like 60m people who identify themselves as being Irish (I'm talking about his sponsorship potential here).

Sin e- i explained that its all to do with marketing- he is still Northern irish- there is no change in that whoever he picks in the olyimpics- which none of us care about in the golf world!

Rory will not lose out on anything either way

I dont wanna take mick with you mate but golf is very different and nationality isnt as important- For instance harrington has no chance getting more sponsership than mcilroy- even though he is bonified irish and has 3 majors. It really is about the individual when it comes to golf- unless your a young american offcourse. Gmac is also a non starter- Poiulter who is english(and not close to the abilty) gets more media than Gmac and Paddy and he is english with no majors. Beckham is the biggest thing in america and he is english..

Its all about the way he is as an individual and more importantly a player

mystiroakey wrote:Basically its clear to me that NI will put in its share - and NI is a net loss in tax to the rest of the UK. Therefore the GUI is part UK funded. this is kinda clear right?

I doubt it. Having being involved in a 32-county sporting organisation, I know you never get a penny from NI/UK.

A quick look at their website tells me they are funded by the Irish Sports Council (and no mention of Sport NI or Sport UK). The IRFU gets nothing either.

Americans have half the golf depth in the world - there are very interested in mciroy because he is a potential great and has a way about him that is interesting- The yanks wether they think they are irish or not are allways american first when it comes to golf mate, rory is the no different to who seve,faldo or how serigio was perceived. Just being irish means zip!

Sin é wrote:

mystiroakey wrote:Basically its clear to me that NI will put in its share - and NI is a net loss in tax to the rest of the UK. Therefore the GUI is part UK funded. this is kinda clear right?

I doubt it. Having being involved in a 32-county sporting organisation, I know you never get a penny from NI/UK.

A quick look at their website tells me they are funded by the Irish Sports Council (and no mention of Sport NI or Sport UK). The IRFU gets nothing either.

but there are playing rugby in UK schools and golf in UK golf courses. who is paying for that, who is paying there fathers tax credits or there parents child support??

look mate i dont wanna get into this- but you need to understand some simple realities here

It does matter because if these guys arent representing ireland then we should be making a seperate union to fund golfers that will represent ireland and not be wasting money of golfers who end up representing GB

leinster the UK is funding then way more directly and indirectly -can you not see that

mystiroakey wrote:

Sin é wrote:

mystiroakey wrote:Basically its clear to me that NI will put in its share - and NI is a net loss in tax to the rest of the UK. Therefore the GUI is part UK funded. this is kinda clear right?

I doubt it. Having being involved in a 32-county sporting organisation, I know you never get a penny from NI/UK.

A quick look at their website tells me they are funded by the Irish Sports Council (and no mention of Sport NI or Sport UK). The IRFU gets nothing either.

but there are playing rugby in UK schools and golf in UK golf courses. who is paying for that, who is paying there fathers tax credits or there parents child support??

look mate i dont wanna get into this- but you need to understand some simple realities here

Lol you've obvioulsy never debated with Sin é before

Also what about all the irish footballers that grow up in this country- cant you see that even if one golfer chose gb over ireland that you are still miles ahead here pal!

mystiroakey wrote:leinster the UK is funding then way more directly and indirectly -can you not see that

The GUI is not funded by UK taxes.

mystiroakey wrote:I dont wanna take mick with you mate but golf is very different and nationality isnt as important- For instance harrington has no chance getting more sponsership than mcilroy- even though he is bonified irish and has 3 majors. It really is about the individual when it comes to golf- unless your a young american offcourse. Gmac is also a non starter- Poiulter who is english(and not close to the abilty) gets more media than Gmac and Paddy and he is english with no majors. Beckham is the biggest thing in america and he is english..

Its all about the way he is as an individual and more importantly a player

Harrington hasn't really made it in the US though.

I'm sure Poulter etc. are popular, but identifying as (Northern) Irish rather than British in a country that has a large population who claim to be Irish seems like a good move to me (as in they identify as being Irish and here is a good young golfer who is also Irish). The fact that he has the gift of the gab (something Irish people are known for) will also help.

Didn't think Beckham was that big in the US! I think they love Robbie Keane and Thierry Henry just as much.

Nope sin e golf is fundementally different. and no they dont even know who keane is mate, whereas beckham is headline pal

LeinsterFan4life wrote:It does matter because if these guys arent representing ireland then we should be making a seperate union to fund golfers that will represent ireland and not be wasting money of golfers who end up representing GB

The Olympics is small potatoes in the golf world the GUI won't be too worried as long as we keep getting big crowds to the Irish Open and the number of people playing around the island is growing they won't care that much what flag one or 2 players play under.

mystiroakey wrote:Also what about all the irish footballers that grow up in this country- cant you see that even if one golfer chose gb over ireland that you are still miles ahead here pal!

If you gave us back Wayne Rooney you might have a point!

Sin é wrote:

mystiroakey wrote:Also what about all the irish footballers that grow up in this country- cant you see that even if one golfer chose gb over ireland that you are still miles ahead here pal!

If you gave us back Wayne Rooney you might have a point!

i know your having a laugh here mate- but rooney was brought up in this country- he is english..

Golf is golf lads - stop getting so perved about it- let em make there own minds up. I am happy either way. I know you lot arnt massive golf fans(dont see you on the forums) but we are not that nationalstic, the players play for themselves

Sin é wrote:

mystiroakey wrote:I dont wanna take mick with you mate but golf is very different and nationality isnt as important- For instance harrington has no chance getting more sponsership than mcilroy- even though he is bonified irish and has 3 majors. It really is about the individual when it comes to golf- unless your a young american offcourse. Gmac is also a non starter- Poiulter who is english(and not close to the abilty) gets more media than Gmac and Paddy and he is english with no majors. Beckham is the biggest thing in america and he is english..

Its all about the way he is as an individual and more importantly a player

Harrington hasn't really made it in the US though.

I'm sure Poulter etc. are popular, but identifying as (Northern) Irish rather than British in a country that has a large population who claim to be Irish seems like a good move to me (as in they identify as being Irish and here is a good young golfer who is also Irish). The fact that he has the gift of the gab (something Irish people are known for) will also help.

Didn't think Beckham was that big in the US! I think they love Robbie Keane and Thierry Henry just as much.

He won 4 times in america. I pretty sure he made it big considering how one of them was a major

Sin e RE: harrighton stateside.He has won way more in the states than rory. Sorry to say mate- but he has won 3 majors , rory has hardly won a thing bar 1 major- but is an exiting young player with a style about him- rory could be from spain,sweden or england and would be exactly the same draw- if he was american- well now thats slightly different

LeinsterFan4life wrote:

Sin é wrote:

mystiroakey wrote:I dont wanna take mick with you mate but golf is very different and nationality isnt as important- For instance harrington has no chance getting more sponsership than mcilroy- even though he is bonified irish and has 3 majors. It really is about the individual when it comes to golf- unless your a young american offcourse. Gmac is also a non starter- Poiulter who is english(and not close to the abilty) gets more media than Gmac and Paddy and he is english with no majors. Beckham is the biggest thing in america and he is english..

Its all about the way he is as an individual and more importantly a player

Harrington hasn't really made it in the US though.

I'm sure Poulter etc. are popular, but identifying as (Northern) Irish rather than British in a country that has a large population who claim to be Irish seems like a good move to me (as in they identify as being Irish and here is a good young golfer who is also Irish). The fact that he has the gift of the gab (something Irish people are known for) will also help.

Didn't think Beckham was that big in the US! I think they love Robbie Keane and Thierry Henry just as much.

He won 4 times in america. I pretty sure he made it big considering how one of them was a major

leinster he was won 3 majors (dont worry about what is on us soil)- the open is classified as a pga tour event as much as the others are

asoreleftshoulder wrote:

Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler wrote:Sorry its inappropriate to pose with the flag, but entirely appropriate for him to play rugby for them?

I assume that most NI players who play Union for Ireland dont refuse to wear green and pretend to like Guinness when they do it?

He played for Great Britain and Ireland so yes it's appropriate.

No Carney played League for the Great Britain Lions , which represents the UK. If he was playing Union for the British and Irish Lions he would be playing for Britain and Ireland.

I guess it is complicated in that the side represnets Northern Ireland, but then he isnt from there. So basically he was representing a country he wasnt from and one he objects to simply to get to play International RL for a decent side for once. Instead of saying no he deemed it appropriate to play for them despite having no wish to be affiliated with Britain or the UK, and obviously objecting to them. If its not appropriate to pose with the flag is it appropriate to represent them?
Obviouslythe whole representation thing in this sort of context is a very emotive subject and one that potentially causes a lot of issues for people. I personally believe its wrong for the IRFU to not allow people the choice of representing Ireland or Britain in the Olympics, but in some ways if players are put in a position where they arent having to make potentially politically awkward decisions in the first place then thats all for the better. That players feel able to represent All Ireland regardless of their background is great, and as I understand it noone has ever raised any doubt that they would continue to do so in the case of GB representation being possible. Which is great and shows how Union has continued to largely avoid those political issues, and continues to lead the way in breaking down the barriers through peoples own choice. If someone starts using sport as a political tool to force confrontation and raise issues, thats not so good.
At least he didnt puke on the shirt.

well we are gonna get these arguments for golf and rugby and it makes me a bit sad because when we break it down there is no right or wrong decision in my mind!- they cant please everyone and many cant even please themselves

Leinster i take it he didnt then (re: deletd post)

mystiroakey wrote:Leinster i take it he didnt then (re: deletd post)

He did but i read peter's post wrong.

oh ok

That'll be a tough decision for Rory. Rory has fans across both communities in NI and loads fans in Ireland too. And he's equally gracious to all of them. He was born a Catholic, grew up in a Protestant area and went to a non denominational school (in my opinion all schools should be non denominational), but I don't think he cares about religion or politics. I've never heard him utter a political remark in his life. Or even mention religion. He certainly doesn't define himself by his religion.

To have to choose, it puts him in an awkward position. I think he would happily play for Ireland. He's represented them at all age levels through the years. And he'd happily play for GB too. You can see yourself as both Irish and British at the same time. The problem is that he'll urine some people off no matter which side he chooses. But would he urine off real golf fans? Or would he just be Wee weeing off the usual people who are waiting to be offended so they can start a row?

Whoever Rory McIlroy chooses to represent I'll be right behind him, and I bet the majority of people in NI will be right behind him too whatever passport they themselves hold. For my part, I feel the same way about all our Olympians in both Team GB and Team Ireland.

It's his choice, no-one elses. It should be respected.

Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler-

you don't know much about the rugby fraternity in Ulster if you think they'd have to pretend to like Guinness. Some things are universal across the border in Ireland

And SinE- just... just go and hug someone young man. You'll feel nice afterwards.

And this is why I dread the inclusion of rugby. Suddenly athletes are faced with a choice, a choice that will cause a storm of controversy. Sport shouldn't be divisive but the fallout of the decision of McIlroy and McDowell to represent one team or the other will be divisive. Through no fault of their own. That's not the way we do it in rugby. And rugby is a haven from it. British, Irish doesn't matter. We're all on the same team.

Irish rugby players dont have a choice. The IRFU have already said that no irish players can play for GB. There is no issue there.

It is not that cut and dry- in a way, I hope it is. But if a player was asked to join the British team, could the IRFU legally stand in his way?

I sincerely doubt that this will go beyond a hypothetical discussion in the near future. It's unlikely to make a difference.

mystiroakey wrote:

Sin é wrote:

mystiroakey wrote:Also what about all the irish footballers that grow up in this country- cant you see that even if one golfer chose gb over ireland that you are still miles ahead here pal!

If you gave us back Wayne Rooney you might have a point!

i know your having a laugh here mate- but rooney was brought up in this country- he is english..

Golf is golf lads - stop getting so perved about it- let em make there own minds up. I am happy either way. I know you lot arnt massive golf fans(dont see you on the forums) but we are not that nationalstic, the players play for themselves

You were having a crack at all those Irish lads born in England who ended up playing for Ireland and how the British taxpayer has developed them. Rooney is no different than the rest of them except he was probably brought up in a more Irish community in Liverpool than anyone else. I remember someone interviewing his granny (who was born in England to Irish parents) and she referred to herself as Irish and Ireland as home (I actually don't think she had ever been to Ireland).

I think the Irish golfers can be very nationalistic to be honest. It difficult for Rory & Gmac because of where they are from. No one really cares outside of Northern Ireland, but it is difficult for them to seem to be seen to be neutral.

And yet they are seen as neutral

Sin é wrote:

mystiroakey wrote:

Sin é wrote:

mystiroakey wrote:Also what about all the irish footballers that grow up in this country- cant you see that even if one golfer chose gb over ireland that you are still miles ahead here pal!

If you gave us back Wayne Rooney you might have a point!

i know your having a laugh here mate- but rooney was brought up in this country- he is english..

Golf is golf lads - stop getting so perved about it- let em make there own minds up. I am happy either way. I know you lot arnt massive golf fans(dont see you on the forums) but we are not that nationalstic, the players play for themselves

You were having a crack at all those Irish lads born in England who ended up playing for Ireland and how the British taxpayer has developed them. Rooney is no different than the rest of them except he was probably brought up in a more Irish community in Liverpool than anyone else. I remember someone interviewing his granny (who was born in England to Irish parents) and she referred to herself as Irish and Ireland as home (I actually don't think she had ever been to Ireland).

I think the Irish golfers can be very nationalistic to be honest. It difficult for Rory & Gmac because of where they are from. No one really cares outside of Northern Ireland, but it is difficult for them to seem to be seen to be neutral.

Lol you're stretching so hard god bless you.

Notch wrote:It is not that cut and dry- in a way, I hope it is. But if a player was asked to join the British team, could the IRFU legally stand in his way?

I sincerely doubt that this will go beyond a hypothetical discussion in the near future. It's unlikely to make a difference.

Yeah but couldn't they refuse to select players who pick GB at the Olympics?

ChequeredJersey wrote:

Notch wrote:It is not that cut and dry- in a way, I hope it is. But if a player was asked to join the British team, could the IRFU legally stand in his way?

I sincerely doubt that this will go beyond a hypothetical discussion in the near future. It's unlikely to make a difference.

Yeah but couldn't they refuse to select players who pick GB at the Olympics?

That would be idiotic (can't rule that out they did gave Kidney a contract extension before the world cup). We need every player we have and excluding people just because they played 7's at a tournament that comes around every 4 years and is pretty inconsequential in the grand scheme of things would be ridiculous.

mystiroakey wrote:Nope sin e golf is fundementally different. and no they dont even know who keane is mate, whereas beckham is headline pal

Where is beckham headline? Because of his Mrs? Soccer isn't big in the US (though I'd suggest that Robbie Keane would be held in high regard by the Irish diaspora in the US and is probably bigger than Thierry Henri for one!).

Notch wrote:And yet they are seen as neutral

Yep, but when it comes to a decision like the Olympics, they won't be neutral (read the article i posted).

Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler wrote:

asoreleftshoulder wrote:

Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler wrote:Sorry its inappropriate to pose with the flag, but entirely appropriate for him to play rugby for them?

I assume that most NI players who play Union for Ireland dont refuse to wear green and pretend to like Guinness when they do it?

He played for Great Britain and Ireland so yes it's appropriate.

No Carney played League for the Great Britain Lions , which represents the UK. If he was playing Union for the British and Irish Lions he would be playing for Britain and Ireland.

So, Ciaran Fitzgerald, an Irish Army officer represented the UK when he played for the British Lions?

http://topics.nytimes.com/top/reference/timestopics/people/b/david_beckham/index.html

As the biggest name in the MLS, a personal mate of Tom Cruise's, Posh's husband, a clothing and aftershave brand, a model, a player who has played t levels far above Robbie Keane for almost his entire career and one of the few British sportsmen that every American I have spoken to about sports can name, saying Becks is not headline news or is less regarded than Robbie Keane is a joke. I am in no way a soccer fan and certainly not a Man U or Beckham fan but Sin E's comment about this is just funny

Soccer is also quite big in the US, just less so than NFL, NBA etc. They watch a lot of Prem League too.

The IRFU haven't banned or aren't stopping players being picked for Team GB. There was a discussion between the IRFU, RFU, WRU and SRU and the agreement was that the Great British would be made up of players from the RFU, WRU and SRU and the Irish team would be made up from players from the IRFU. And they have to meet whatever the Olympic qualifying criteria is.

There haven't been any discussions about what to do if Ireland don't qualify for the 7s.

HammerofThunor wrote:The IRFU haven't banned or aren't stopping players being picked for Team GB. There was a discussion between the IRFU, RFU, WRU and SRU and the agreement was that the Great British would be made up of players from the RFU, WRU and SRU and the Irish team would be made up from players from the IRFU. And they have to meet whatever the Olympic qualifying criteria is.

There haven't been any discussions about what to do if Ireland don't qualify for the 7s.

Yes there have.the IRFU came out recently and said no players from NI are allowed to play for GB in the olympics

HammerofThunor wrote:The IRFU haven't banned or aren't stopping players being picked for Team GB. There was a discussion between the IRFU, RFU, WRU and SRU and the agreement was that the Great British would be made up of players from the RFU, WRU and SRU and the Irish team would be made up from players from the IRFU. And they have to meet whatever the Olympic qualifying criteria is.

There haven't been any discussions about what to do if Ireland don't qualify for the 7s.

Is that possible,I don't know how many teams will enter but if there is a proper qualifying process I'd say it's fairly certain we won't make it since we still don't have a team only 4 years out.

What a load of cak, that would never catch on, way off the pace with this one HERSH.