England squad for Second Test

England squad for second Test: Andrew Strauss (Middlesex, capt), Alastair Cook (Essex), Jonathan Trott (Warwickshire), Kevin Pietersen (Surrey), Ian Bell (Warwickshire), James Taylor (Nottinghamshire), Matt Prior (Sussex, wk), Tim Bresnan (Yorkshire), Stuart Broad (Nottinghamshire), Graeme Swann (Nottinghamshire), James Anderson (Lancashire), Steven Finn (Middlesex), Graham Onions (Durham).

Same as, but Ravi misses out for personal reasons and James Taylor is called up to replace him!

Watch the selectors now go with 5 bowlers...

Even though Bopara, who i think is the weak link, is gone. I would still bring in Finn or Onions to replace him.

I should imagine they will go with 5 bowlers, especially as with Bopara gone he can't chip in with a couple of overs. Glad Taylor is next in line now, great potential

I dunno, if it was at the Oval or Lord's I could see them going in with 5 bowlers, but with Flower not being a keen advocate of 5 bowlers and the fact it is at Headingley which traditionally offers something to the bowlers I can see him sticking to the 4 bowler plan which means Taylor gets a game!

Well if you are correct Mr Dizzle they are throwing him in at the deep end

I don't care, I just want to see him play! He's pretty much my favourite player right now, so I'm not really the best to comment on whether he should play as I'm a tiny bit biased! Hopefully he'll have a Trott debut rather than a Bairstow one when he does play though!

Olly wrote:I should imagine they will go with 5 bowlers, especially as with Bopara gone he can't chip in with a couple of overs. Glad Taylor is next in line now, great potential

Taylor may have great potential but at a test match level this means JACKSH#T if he doesn't have a solid technique for playing high class fast bowling (just ask Graeme Hick). England's selectors missed a trick by not calling up Sam Northeast who is in better form than Taylor this season and crucially has scored decent runs against the current South African test attack in the warm up match before the recent first test match. Also technically being an opening batsman, Northeast should have a better technique for playing fast bowling than Taylor does.

If they had no trust in Bopara selectors should not have played Bopara.
Now that they showed faith in Bopara being the right man for #6......for the sake of consiarency and fairness they have to give him 3 tests, without putting pressure in holding his position.

Finn in should be a no brainer........
Onions for Broad will be the one that will require courage.....

We know given Strauss's form.......and Flower's general lack of faith in his specialist batters.......he tends to cushion the batting, by picking bowlers who can contribute useful 25ish average with the bat.......

Hence Onions getting in is low probability.......and fearing display of obstinacy from Flower.....we may even see Bresnan retained......under some convoluted, mumbo jumbo talk of consistency and pointed fingers towards Bresnan's display against Ind and WI.........as the justifucation.

If we are going on form this season then surely Nick Compton is the obvious choice!!

I like Taylor and think he will be a solid test match player

Meanwhile, rumours growing that Ravi Bopara has opted out of the Test to play for the team skippered by fellow Essex boy CF ....

Taylor 150*

Olly wrote:If we are going on form this season then surely Nick Compton is the obvious choice!!

I like Taylor and think he will be a solid test match player

Not really as Compton has had the benefit of batting on the flat batsman friendly wicket at Taunton. For me the player that England should have called up is the Kent batsman Sam Northeast. Northeast batted well enough V the current SA test attack in the warm up game, and being an opening batsman Northeast should have the technique for playing fast bowling.

Corporalhumblebucket wrote:Taylor 150*

Nothing special about this innings other than being a 150 not out. Any decent player can make a score like this against a Sussex bowling attack containing England rejects Luke Wright and Monty Panesar.

Anyone know what these 'personal problems' are for Bopara? I make it near certain now that Finn will replace Bopara.

gboycottnut wrote:

Corporalhumblebucket wrote:Taylor 150*

Nothing special about this innings other than being a 150 not out. Any decent player can make a score like this against a Sussex bowling attack containing England rejects Luke Wright and Monty Panesar.

Sir Geoffrey - for some reason, a comment attributed to Abraham Lincoln comes to mind:

''It is better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to open your mouth and remove all doubt.''

Pleased to see Taylor getting a game. (personal reasons ? Whatever they are it is ill timed for Bopara , who may not get too many more opportunities )

Being at Headingley I would expect four bowlers will be thought enough , surely ? In which case Taylor will debut ... pretty tough start , but that is a good way to see what he's got...

alfie wrote:Pleased to see Taylor getting a game. (personal reasons ? Whatever they are it is ill timed for Bopara , who may not get too many more opportunities )

Being at Headingley I would expect four bowlers will be thought enough , surely ? In which case Taylor will debut ... pretty tough start , but that is a good way to see what he's got...

I don't know what all the fuss is about with Taylor. He is nothing special and is just a flashy player who has a quick bat speed. That is all good and fine if England are playing against South Africa in a ODI or a T20 fast-food match, but this is a very tough Test Match which he will/maybe involved in which will test out his technique, temperament and patience to the fullest. Having seen Taylor batting on Sky Sports, he is purely a heavily leg-side player and I do fear that he just doesn't have the orthodox attributes in his batting which is needed to cope with Steyn, Morkel, Philander and co at this specific time.

James Taylor is a future England star.

However this is too soon, and I expect them to play 5 bowlers.

Graeme Swann's Cat wrote:James Taylor is a future England star.

However this is too soon, and I expect them to play 5 bowlers.

Playing 5 bowlers is a bad idea considering that it was England's lower batting that C*CKED UP badly in the first innings which crucially allowed South Africa off-the hook during the second day of the first test. Also it must be remembered that England used a 5 batsman and 5 bowler strategy V Australia at Headingley in 2009 and England paid dearly on that occasion with the Aussie pace attack of Mitchell Johnson, Stuart Clark, Sid Vicious and Ben Hilfenhaus cutting through England's helpless batting lineup like a knife through butter.

Taylor is a very solid player, who has all the attributes to be a fine international batsman. Up to this season there would have been two areas of doubt:

1. He doesn't score as many Championship runs as he perhaps should (though his record is far from terrible and crucially he has a fantastic record for England Lions)

2. He's not the type of player to hurry the rate along and so not ideally suited to number six (where an opening was always most likely to come)

I think he's gone a long way to answering both of these questions this season, particularly the second one, though I'd have liked to have seen them back Bairstow myself - his poor Yorkshire form since the WI series until this week's hundred rather than particularly his efforts against WI probably counted against him.

I can't see five bowlers at this stage so Taylor will get a go and I have every confidence in him. What ever the reasons it is a terrible shame that Ravi has to miss a Test again

Shelsey,

With Taylor being picked now, I hope they give him a decent run, if he does well on debut rather than just bringing back Ravi, when available. But it will be a really tough debut.

shankythebiggestengfan wrote:Shelsey,

With Taylor being picked now, I hope they give him a decent run, if he does well on debut rather than just bringing back Ravi, when available. But it will be a really tough debut.

It depends really on why Ravi's unavailable - we don't know if he's likely to be available for Lord's or not. Of course if Taylor goes and gets a ton he'll probably stay (the same applied to Bairstow against WI) which is very harsh luck on Ravi. But if he doesn't make a major impression Bopara should rightly get another go.

The overhead conditions are likely to favour swing. The deck will surely be more lively than the Oval. There may be rain delays which afford bowlers rest.

We should be able to get 20 wickets with 4 bowlers. The key is to pick the right 4 and not to include injured bowlers.

Simple really.

If Swann is not right he has to go - bring in Panesar or if appropriate dont take a spinner.

Broad does not look right either. If not 100% fit and firing at 90mph then sack him off.

This is no time for misplaced loyalty. We cannot afford to carry injured bowlers.

Bresnan (home ground advantage)
Broad if fit and at 90mph if not Onions
Panesar ( i have decided Swann is not fit)
Anderson
Finn

whoops i just named 5.

broad goes for mine leaving the other 4 to play with taylor at 6.

guildfordbat wrote:Meanwhile, rumours growing that Ravi Bopara has opted out of the Test to play for the team skippered by fellow Essex boy CF ....

is he?

I hope Taylor plays, and I do expect him to as I can't see Flower panicking and abandoning the four bowler route just yet. Admittedly, he has not scored as many CC runs as he would have liked this year (or last year) but it hasn't been an easy summer to make your mark with a new team, especially with the conditions that we've had and with him playing at the notoriously bowler friendly Trent Bridge. He still averages above 48 in FC record which is a very good record for a man of his age, and allied to this he has also scored a lot runs in the List A stuff which whilst a completely different game to FC matches and Tests, shows he hasn't just scored his runs against poor attacks in Division 2. He has an appetite for big runs and he often goes on to get big scores after passing 100, a quality which Graham Gooch will enjoy, he has a good attitude and will knuckle down and fight hard and he has a good temperament to score runs when people are watching as he often gets a runs on Lions duty or when the Sky cameras are at his games which is a positive. Finally he is a very good fielder as well, as good as Bairstow easily but maybe a tiny notch below Morgan although Mogs was below par in the recent ODI series in the field, which whilst not being crucial to his selection will not hurt his chances.

I hope he gets the rest of this series to prove himself even if Ravi makes himself available for the final Test and I hope he can get at least one ton to cement his place in the side for the tour of India, but if he doesn't I wouldn't be averse to seeing Ravi come back in for that series as he probably is a better player of spin than Taylor and this point in time.

I reckon that Finn will be chosen over Taylor, not that Taylor isn't good enough but our bowling was woeful in the first test.

Taylor will get his chance and I'd love for it to be this game but with Flower who knows what he's thinking

Gregers wrote:I reckon that Finn will be chosen over Taylor, not that Taylor isn't good enough but our bowling was woeful in the first test.

Taylor will get his chance and I'd love for it to be this game but with Flower who knows what he's thinking

I think we can predict what Flower is thinking to an extent, he does seem quite a predictable coach (not in a bad way) that he doesn't like playing 5 bowlers ever since Headingley 09, and the fact that this game is at the same venue where we were embarrassed by the Aussies will help Taylor's cause, and he isn't prone to knee jerk reactions which is what suddenly going to five bowlers after watching our 4 man attack bowl sides out all across the globe for 2 years plus would be.

we wont go with 5 bowlers......we have been bowling sides out with reugalrity for past 2 years!

Its one game for christ's sake, too much knee jerking going on after one game!

Flower strikes me as someone who has his favourites though and might not want Taylor to come in and hit a hundred as he wants Bopara at 6. Also if Bops is going to come back in then its probably unfair on Taylor to play one test and then get dropped. Mind you England did do it to Rob Key after he scored a double hundred.

5 Bowlers, for me, is the direction we need to go as the SAffers batting looked comfortable in the first test. Someone like Finn offers something different and has an attacking mean streak.

he dosnet have a mean streak, he says nothing at all on the field, yes he is an attacking option but he dosent have a mean streak.

Um a mean streak when he is bowling, as in he regularly attacks the batsmen and looks to take wickets which is something that we were severely lacking in the first test. As soon as the SAffers got going, and plan a wasn't working, our bowlers looked clueless. Having someone like Finn gives us another option in someone who has that mean streak in his bowling. Take when we took Smith's wicket and Kallis was starting, there was hardly any pressure on him and as much as the pitch wasn't conducive to bowling the SAffers managed to take 20 wickets to our 2.

Didn't realize you were best friends with him CF!

So Flower won't pick Talyor because he likes Bopara? Did I read that right?

It was an example liverbnz, not saying Bopara is the chosen one but several other players *cough* KP *cough* are seen as undropable by Flower

Rob Key didn't get dropped after he hit a double ton. He played the rest of the series then some Tests in the Winter.

What's this about favourites being a reason Taylor won't play? I'm sorry but that's utter nonsense. Flower will put the best team out there from the available players. Everything points to 4 bowlers as that's the usual make up of the side. The last time we played 5 bowlers with Broad at 7 was almost as bad a performance as the first Test in this series.

Oh dear and now you seem to think KP is in the side because he's one of the favourites. I can't write what I think of that comment as I'd probably get banned.

Gregers wrote:It was an example liverbnz, not saying Bopara is the chosen one but several other players *cough* KP *cough* are seen as undropable by Flower

Yet KP was dropped for the Pakistan ODis and T20s in 2010.

Sorry for offending the great Andy Flower, personally I cannot stand him

Gregers, you are on the wind up aren't you? Please say yes. You appear to be an England fan but you don't like Flower who has achieved some great things as a coach, nor do you like KP who is one of the best batsmen in the world let alone the England team.

Gregers wrote:Flower strikes me as someone who has his favourites though and might not want Taylor to come in and hit a hundred as he wants Bopara at 6. Also if Bops is going to come back in then its probably unfair on Taylor to play one test and then get dropped. Mind you England did do it to Rob Key after he scored a double hundred.

Yeah he wants Bopara to play so badly that he picked Morgan ahead of him after Collingwood retired. And he picked Patel ahead of Bopara when Morgan was dropped.

And Key was dropped because the man he replaced was an established player in the team who had been injured, not dropped. Hardly a case of playing favorites.

If Flower picked Taylor (or any other batsman) and he scored 100 I think he would be pleased. Would be something odd to pick a player and hope they did badly..

With England not requiring to win this test series but only to draw it in order to retain their number 1 ranking position, I believe that they should adopt a careful approach in this 2nd test match at Headingley by playing 6 specialist batsman and hope/pray that at the very least they can escape out of this test with a draw. With the final test match being played at Lords, England should change to a 5 specialist bowler approach as the playing conditions there are more likely to favour batsmen. Also it does seem for some peculiar reason that South Africa always lose in the final test match in England. This has happened in every single test series that South Africa have played in England since their comeback from international isolation in the early 1990's. Bowled out by Devon Malcolm's incredible fast bowling spell at the Oval in 1994, a defeat at Headingley in 1998, another defeat at the Oval in 2003 despite making 450+ in their first innings, and another defeat again at the Oval in 2008 when Kevin Pietersen made his debut as the England captain.

boycott: Lords is a batting paradise if we couldnt get them all out on an oval pitch that turned then it will be difficult to bowl them out twice at lords...

we need to go for a win at headlingley!

1. Strauss
2. Cook
3. Trott
4. KP
5. Bell
6. Prior
7. Taylor
8. Broad
9. Swann
10. Anderson
11. Finn

That would be my side. Take the pressure off Taylor and move him to 7, with Prior who was one of the few to bat well in both innings moving up to 6.

Finn to come in as a genuine wicket taker, because that's what wins you games, wickets.

I wouldn't move Taylor to 7. He's a top 6 batsman and that's where he should play. We don't want to dent the guy's confidence before he's even started.

Without his extra bowling it certainly strengthens the argument for 5 bowlers. there might be abit more bounce for them too.
My big reservation on 4 seamer sis still that it doesnt fulfill the main point of having 5 bowlers, variety. The 5 will all be right armers and although theres a fair difference in pace between Anderson and Finn this will still hardly be what youd call a balanced attack with different bowlers to ask different questions of the batsmen.

I still stick to my guns that the line up is not the big question here, its how those players approach mentally when batting the game and the plans the bowlers have for getting the star SA batsmen out.

liverbnz wrote:I wouldn't move Taylor to 7. He's a top 6 batsman and that's where he should play. We don't want to dent the guy's confidence before he's even started.

Liverbnz - agree with that. In addition, it can be argued there would be extra pressure in batting at 7 and being more likely to have to bat with the tail and marshall them.

Weather not looking promising for this one. Rain for most of Thursday, Friday and Sunday.

CF wrote:boycott: Lords is a batting paradise if we couldnt get them all out on an oval pitch that turned then it will be difficult to bowl them out twice at lords...

we need to go for a win at headlingley!

Which is why I have said that England should play a 5 man bowling attack there as if is going to be a batting paradise of a wicket there, this will be the best time in which we can get away with using a strategy of playing a 5 man specialist batting with a 5 man specialist bowling attack. Also take in the very crucial key factor that South Africa have always lost their final test match of every test series played in England since their return from international isolation, so the Lords test match is for me the one in which England should target for getting a win which will allow them to draw the test series 1 test each and hence a retaining of the number 1 world ranking position. This upcoming test at Headingley for me is all about damage limitation for England in which we have to play better in both batting and bowling, but the final result has to be at the very least a draw.

Playing specialist batsmen at 7 rarely works - they have to bat in unfamiliar conditions (most that reach the Test side will bat top 5 for their counties), and often have no chance to make an impact. It also dents their confidence. Last time that England tried that was with Ian Ward in the 2001 Ashes, and that hardly worked...