1st robbery of the olympics

First topic message reminder :

dont know the names, but that thai boxer clearly beat the kazakstan fighter.

8-8 going into the final round - which is in my opinion about right. Last round kaz fighter gassed and hardly did anything, the thai boxer landed two combinations to the body with atleast 6 clean punches landed between them both, won the round, yet the kazakstan fighter got the decision - last round was 4-4

I still don't understand why body punching isn't rewarded in amateur boxing.

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Point Scoring Explained

http://www.boxingscene.com/how-amateur-scoring-changed-these-olympics--55741

Something like 3 of the 5 judges need to click a button within a certain time for the punch to score.

Then they take away the highest judges score and the lowest and then take an average, or something like that.

Any punch that lands (with force) on the scoring part of the opponents body (Head and Torso) with the scoring part of the glove is a scoring shot, supposedly

Amateurs should do away with judging and have compubox do the scoring. Savon landed more punches in the scoring area. Joke decision.

Feel pretty down now, didn't expect that someone who worked hard for 4 years would get totally screwed out of the right result on our home patch.

Poor decision, I had Savon miles in front. Just glad I have money on Joshua. I'll watch it again tomorrow, but how Savon only won that last round by one point is beyond me. Infact I'm struggling to digest how he lost any of the three.

@Az
I suppose you could argue the pro's should be scored like that (on a round by round basis with a knockdown voiding the stats for that round)

Amateurs have strict scoring systems. Things like effective aggression means nothing. Its all about punches landed. A power punch gets the same score as a light punch. Although in the pros its the same, but in the pros its often designed to break you down. Chavez Snr would never win amateur fights because of this. He systematically broke down his opponents.

Killer_B_6 wrote:The scoring system is a bit funny isn't it. Anyone got the exact rules?

You can always expect a bit of a homer and if you are fighting away you need to win by a clear margin.

Further to my earlier post re.scoring , the rules say the a scoring puch must land "with force" so unless jabs are solid, it can be argued that they don't land with force and therefore don't score. This combined with the 3 of 5 judges needing to hit the buttons near on simulataneously are what screws things up- it is perfectly possible for all five to score a bout as individuals for one boxer, but for the other when they are combined- it happen to an American flyweight (Eric Griffith ?) as few Olympics back-all the judges had him winning, but the computer, which only scores when three of the five hit the button at the same time, gave the decision to his opponent. As I said it's time to return to the 20 point must system.

I'm not sure if light punches are supposed to score Az. It depends how a judge interprets the statement: a scoring shot is one that is landed with force. I suppose contact implies force. However, I attended a judging course around "05, held at Lambton Street Boys Club, Sunderland. And if my memory serves me correct then the force implied was a fair whack delivered with quite a bit of intent behind it.

but maybe that was just my interpretation.

azania wrote:Amateurs have strict scoring systems. Things like effective aggression means nothing. Its all about punches landed. A power punch gets the same score as a light punch. Although in the pros its the same, but in the pros its often designed to break you down. Chavez Snr would never win amateur fights because of this. He systematically broke down his opponents.

Also some amateur club shows still use the 20 point system.... where effective aggression does mean something!

Just seen the Japanese guy get absolutely robbed, horrible horrible officiating and judging. How the judges scored the last round even when the other guy didn't even throw 10 punches is beyond me, something has to be done about that. The Savon vs Joshua fight was closer but still a real home town decision, hate to see that happen anywhere.

bellchees wrote:Just seen the Japanese guy get absolutely robbed, horrible horrible officiating and judging. How the judges scored the last round even when the other guy didn't even throw 10 punches is beyond me, something has to be done about that. The Savon vs Joshua fight was closer but still a real home town decision, hate to see that happen anywhere.

Not neccessarily bad judging or a home town decision though-the judges may have all scored that round for the Japanese guy, but they didn't all hit the button at the same time , whereas they did happen to when the other guy landed- the system is inherently defective. I once lost an amateur bout 7-0 - IO watched it on video, and was convinced I won 2 rounds to 1- but you can't blame the judges they can only hit the buttons when they clearly see the punch land, and if they don't hit it at the same time as the others, you can't blame them when the decision turns out wrong

The Japanese-Azeri result has been overturned. IABA say that the referee should have given him 3 standing eight counts, and thus stopping the contest.

I was really shocked, there was two points in it after the second round and I'm gonna be honest Joshua was tagged a good 12 times in my view and landed about half the amount back in the third round, was near certain that he'd lost and then the judges only Savon 4 points which truly was baffling. Hometown decision without a shadow of a doubt, but seen worse, don't watch all that much amateur stuff, mind you, one little thing I think we should all focus on, it was a very entertaining fight!

6oldenbhoy wrote:The Japanese-Azeri result has been overturned. IABA say that the referee should have given him 3 standing eight counts, and thus stopping the contest.

That's brilliant, glad to see they can do something about daylight robbery.

To be fair, een though Azania has probably only seen Joshua fight once, and it was that fight, he has a fair point in the fact that he does look like he would be an exciting pro.

AlexHuckerby wrote:To be fair, een though Azania has probably only seen Joshua fight once, and it was that fight, he has a fair point in the fact that he does look like he would be an exciting pro.

I saw him in the world amateurs Alex. No need for silly points now is there?

I said prior to the fight that against the Cuban he will have a tought time (obviously) and could be nervous because of the expectation. I said (on this thread) that a robbery was on the cards after the first round. I also said that his style is suited to the pro game (similarly to that huge lump from east europe) and that Savon looked to have a better amateur style.

Savon won that fight clearly if using pro or amateur scoring. A sad day for amateur boxing. But that's how the cookie crumbles. I wonder if the Cubans will appeal the decision? I hope so.

The scoring in Olympic boxing is very confusing. Whenever I have watched a fight and kept count of the punches being landed the judges always score far fewer. This fellow Anthony Joshua was getting the big one with some folks comparing him to Lennox Lewis which was absurd. The other guy clearly landed more punches on him and was the better boxer but they didnt count lots of his punches. They should just score it in terms of rounds like in pro boxing. Trying to count individual punches landed is too complicated. Why not just watch the fight back in slow motion replay then and they would be able to tell for sure rather than trying to count punches as they land in quick succession? They hand is quicker than the eye as they say.....

Missed the Savon Joshua bout last night,but my brothers text reads Cuban ripped off shocking decision.
We complain about robberys in the pro game you would think the amateurs would have a bit more class.

Nico the gman wrote:Missed the Savon Joshua bout last night,but my brothers text reads Cuban ripped off shocking decision.
We complain about robberys in the pro game you would think the amateurs would have a bit more class.

RJJ would disagree....

Nico the gman wrote:Missed the Savon Joshua bout last night,but my brothers text reads Cuban ripped off shocking decision.
We complain about robberys in the pro game you would think the amateurs would have a bit more class.

Great post! Either the scoring system is wrong or the judges are crooked. Would be an awful shame if the corruption in the pro game began to filter into the amateur game. I can understand a close fight being scored wrong but the Cuban fellow landed as much as ten or fifteen more punches that were not counted. I dont understand it.

I actually had it even in the joshua fight going into the last round, thought the cuban won the last though. I dont see it as as much of a robbery as some people seem to though, close decision.(could be me being biased for britain though!)

I have to agree with Gordy to some extent. I thought Savon looked like the better boxer against Joshua and Id be very surprised if he did not land more. Given how Olympic boxing is scored, by virtue of clean punches landed, why not just use a compubox system? This button pressing system seems unsatisfactory and having tried to score a few fights myself it is also very difficult and based on split second reactions.

I would bet heavily that compubox would show the Savon as the winner of that particular fight in terms of punches landed, which is what the judges are trying look it after all.

Problem with compubox means volume punchers are always going to win.

But isnt this essence of how Olympic boxing is supposed to be scored? The professional criteria such as ring generalship, defence, effective aggression and clean punching are sacrificed in favour of a system of whoever lands the most punches wins?

Ive given up trying to score the amateur fights. Partly because my scores never seem to match the judges but mainly because I end up concentrating so hard on trying to see what landed and to keep count that I end up missing the fight.

There is an interview on BBC with Lennox Lewis talking about Anthony Joahua. He said the the fight was close and could have gone either way so I dont think it was a robbery after all. Maybe the punches the Cuban was throwing were not landing properly. I think he is spot on with his description of Joshua. Hes certainly not the next Lennox Lewis but with the right mentality he could win a medal. For those still saying it was a robbery here is the interview.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/olympics/19089818

Think we've seen decisions go against our boxers n previous Olympics, and we've complained. Now we're getting decisions go our way were still complaining.

The Joshua fight wasn't as clear as people are making out.

hampo171 wrote:Think we've seen decisions go against our boxers n previous Olympics, and we've complained. Now we're getting decisions go our way were still complaining.

The Joshua fight wasn't as clear as people are making out.

Good point. We should not be complaining when we get a rub of luck go our way. What people also must remember in amateur boxing is that points can only be scored with a very precise part of the glove. The Cuban guy looked like he was landing more punches but his technique was not correct so many of them did not not count. Joshuas punches were technically more correct. Like Lewis said, it was a close fight that could have gone either way so we should just be happy it was our athlete that got the decision.

saw a southpaw MW former 2 times champion get through, other guy got robbed. Southpaw gassed after round 1, he was meant to be the guy coming foward, instead he was stumbling away going backwards

How did spence not win that?

Regardless of who's being robbed, or where they're from, its bad for boxing.

Errol got robbed, bye bye US boxing team.

The decision has been overturned, Spence is back in.

6oldenbhoy wrote:The decision has been overturned, Spence is back in.

Is that 2 decisions overturned now in the boxing? And in amature boxing is overturned decisions a regular thing or has the judging here just been bad?

Yeah, it's the second mate. Nah, they happen very occasionally. Only one at last years World Championships, Lomachenko vs Concencaio (sp). I've said this on another thread, but the appeals system only allows you to appeal on the grounds of poor refereeing, you will not win an appeal based on poor judging.

Do you know if the Iranian that was disqualified appealed?

Nah, there was no grounds for appeal in that particular case. The ref has been suspended for 5 days.

6oldenbhoy wrote:Nah, there was no grounds for appeal in that particular case. The ref has been suspended for 5 days.

The ref shouldn't be allowed near a boxing ring ever, he's an absolute disgrace.

Sorry lads could you explain? I just got the bbc report saying that he was qarned thrice and dqed?

ShahenshahG wrote:Sorry lads could you explain? I just got the bbc report saying that he was qarned thrice and dqed?

if you're referring to the cuban vs iranian.

1st round - Fight was looking goo, both guys doing good work, cuban the shorter man was trying to get on the inside and was having some succes. Iranian landed some good left uppercuts to the body, end of the round cuban leads with his head pushing into the iranian chest, turning a 4-4 (fair score) round into 6-4 in favour of the iranian.

2nd Round - Fight gets rough, with the cuban pushing his head into IRN chest, IRN boxer cllinches and pulls his head down slightly and does this few times, Ref Deducts points, then DQ's him in a rough fight where most ref's would give a simple warning to both fighters.

Fight is over within the first minute of the second round - seen fights this olympics which was far worse it terms of scrappy action and rough fighting. If hopkins was fighting with this guy being the ref, he would actually be DQ'd inside half a round - no imagine how stupid and strict this ref was.

Luke Campbell almost got totally robbed, he smashed that bulgarian up.

We were moaning about Josuha, but we get robbed all the time!

16-15 haha what a joke, Campbell won it easily.

BoxingFan88 wrote:Luke Campbell almost got totally robbed, he smashed that bulgarian up.

We were moaning about Josuha, but we get robbed all the time!

16-15 haha what a joke, Campbell won it easily.

Agreed. There have been very few results that seem to reflect what actually happened. The Irish guy before him won the last round of his fight I believe despite being on his last legs and knocked down. The Mexican clearly won the last round although the Irish fellow won the first two rounds.

Azerbaijan heavyweight should have been disqualified. I felt sorry for his opponent. The Azerbaijan fellow just wrestled him at every opportunity. Yet another decision that seems to have been wrong. Im starting to get the feeling that this Olympic boxing is all a bit of pot luck!

Haha, Azerbaijan only have two boxers left and the story went that they bribed AIBA to get 2 gold medals at these games.

Maybe a few quid on these two might be a good investment.

Mammadov has had two fights and lost both, but he's got himself a bronze.

Also, I'm almost glad Campbell 'nearly' got robbed. People have been going on about hometown decisions all week.

LC won by about 5 points to me, outworked and outlanded easily.

Point Scoring Explained

http://www.boxingscene.com/how-amateur-scoring-changed-these-olympics--55741

Roy Jones Jr - On why he has stopped watching olympic boxing - Officials were the problem (vs Park si Hun) not scoring, avoided problem rather than fixing it.

http://www.boxingscene.com/roy-jones-jr-i-stopped-watching-olympics-over-scoring--55704

Did anybody else think that the French welterweight, Alexis Vastine, got royally shafted yesterday in the last round of his quarter final against, Taras Shelestyuk?

Yes I did I was absolutely furious, I felt so sorry for him, he has been robbed in consecutive Olympics. Its not fair, they train so hard and dedicate their lives only to get shafted out of a result they deserve.

The thing that sucks is the board can't do anything about it.

Agree, Alma. Completely baffling and impractical system that is more open to corruption than any other. As manos said, you score the same for a light jab as a power shot, it makes no sense.

Amateur boxing becomes Prize Fighter

She's not been mentioned much on here but GB's Nicola Adams has just won her flyweight semi-final and is now guaranteed silver. Fighting a chinese girl in the final.