How does that SARS and Bird flu feel now Roddick? And of course more draw discrimination for Novak by the olympic draw committee

First topic message reminder :

I will say it I am generally not a big fan of the ROD, his game or his bullying mentality towards officials and umpires. Not a fan of his big comedy routine at Novak's expense at the USO. What is comedy for me is how attrocious Roddick's returning is and remains and his movement at this age is worse than it has ever been. Oddly Roddick had won 2 out of the last 3 tournaments against weak fields with one grass court title before this match. Glad to see one of my least favorite players and frat boy impersonator Andy Roddick get breadsticked on Grass and have his vaunted serve crushed.

Now on to the subject of the now laughable anti-Novak draws that the brits are now getting in on the act as well. Not only does Novak draw the goat 15 of 17 slams. This will now be the 3rd time this year in a row that when Novak and 2 other top 4 players enter the tournament (ie Nadal is out) that Novak's half magically gets the other top 4 guy in the semi. In Dubai only Murray, Novak, and Fed in the draw Novak gets Murray in his half and fed gets a big 4 free half. In Monte Carlo only 3 of the top 4 showed up. And guess who got Murray in their half Nadal or Djokovic? Bingo Djoko again. And now the olympics only 3 of the big 4 show up again, guess which of the top players draws murray in their
half? Bingo Djokovic. Not to mention getting 3 times finalist Rodddick as a second round match Tsonga and milos in your half at the outset as well. Now we have the 15 out of 17 thing with fed add this to the odd list of coin toss streaks that Novak has been drawing up the short straw over and over and over again. When 3 big 4 show up Novak will always be the top 2 guy that will be forced to play a big 4 opponent in the semi? How much more protection does fedal need, frankly it is getting laughable at how the draw committees are protecting and pumping these guys up with the draw. (this is my personal opinion and not the opinion of the website founders or owners and is just meant as speculation)

JuliusHMarx wrote:I do agree, of course, that Murray is the toughest of the semi-finalists that Fed/Djoko could have faced.

Bingo, also Tsonga is the tougher quarterfinalist as well.

socal1976 wrote:

JuliusHMarx wrote:I do agree, of course, that Murray is the toughest of the semi-finalists that Fed/Djoko could have faced.

Bingo, also Tsonga is the tougher quarterfinalist as well.

Debatable. Marginal, at best.

Two wimbeldon semis vs. Isner's 3rd round says he is the better grass court player.

Isner's 3 grass court titles in Bo3 tournies suggest there isn't that much in it (This is a Bo3 tournament).
Like I say, it could be marginal, and as such it's hardly worth making any sort of fuss over.

Socal Murray is the toughest semi without a doubt, but Tsonga as the toughest QF certainly debatable, Isner on his day will beat anybody if his game fire.

In my view Djoko had a cup cake draw of Bellucci , outdated Roddick Hewitt and Exhausted Tsonga, but Djoko might have to pay for this easy draw when meets Murray in the semi's so its compensated.

Murray will surely punish Djoko pretty badly tomorrow if Djoko played the way he played Wimbledon and this tournament so far.

socal1976 wrote: But if asked as a second round opponent would i prefer to play Roddick, Niemenen or Benny on grass I would want to see roddick last of all those three.

Is that your personal preference or are you stating Djokovic's preferences? I gave you the example of Benne, but you probably skipped reading, because of who the author was. Del Potro is a tough opponent, so is Isner, so is Benne, so is Nishikori or Ferrer, so is Hewitt, so is Nieminen.

socal1976 wrote: I don't understand the difficulty some of you have in understanding relative concepts. Roddick compared to other grandslam winners is not anything special, but compared to the niemmenen's and bennetteau's of the world on grass he is easily and without question the toughest of those three on that surface.

Toughness, like beauty, lies in the eyes of the beholder as does relativity. . May I recommend that you wait for an average ranking matrix that I am putting together for the Open Era.

Yes Laverfan I understand that all of these guys can play tennis and are professional players. What we often do on this site is try to differentiate between the talents of all of these very good players. It is a matter of degrees. I think if you asked most tennis experts and gave them a grouping of these three BEnny, Jarko, or Roddick in a second round match most would say that even a diminished Roddick is a tougher opponent than the other two. I understand your point that subjective opinions about players are just that subjective. That is why I always try to look for a position of objective results and ability. Roddick snuck the last chance slam in many ways before Fed, and later Nadal and later still to some extent Novak ran away with all the slams.

socal1976 wrote:I think if you asked most tennis experts and gave them a grouping of these three BEnny, Jarko, or Roddick in a second round match most would say that even a diminished Roddick is a tougher opponent than the other two.

These are two different points in Djokovic's career.

http://www.atpworldtour.com/Players/Head-To-Head.aspx?pId=R397&oId=D643

http://www.atpworldtour.com/Players/Head-To-Head.aspx?pId=D643&oId=MC10

Roddick can be a handful or Poopie, depending on the day, if you care to look at this list, as was the case with Benny v Federer @ W 2012.

http://www.atpworldtour.com/Tennis/Players/Top-Players/Andy-Roddick.aspx?t=pa

All matches at this level are tough matches, no matter who is on the other side.

Again no question all the matches at this stage are tough but we are talking about different grades of tough. Roddick even in his diminished state has a world class weapon laverfan that can threaten on this surface.

But Isner and Del Potro don't, just so we're clear....

Isner's serve and FH are bigger than Roddick's.
Delpo FH and BH are bigger than Roddick's, and his serve probably not far off.

Roddick is a nice player but this isnt the guy who reached Wimby final 2009.

lydian wrote:
Roddick is a nice player but this isnt the guy who reached Wimby final 2009.

That's obviously not what the ITF/IOC thought when they laid him as part of the outrageous obstacle course in the way of the hated Djoko.

Djoko eats Roddick for breakfast outside of heat at AO when he was still eating gluten and sleeping outside egg chambers..

Was that the routine match for Federer against a weak Del Potro?

feds draw was such a cupcake. 4.5 hours of no competition today.

SoCal... for Djokovic.

Good match, Murray proved too much for Djokovic.

lydian wrote:Isner's serve and FH are bigger than Roddick's.
Delpo FH and BH are bigger than Roddick's, and his serve probably not far off.

Roddick is a nice player but this isnt the guy who reached Wimby final 2009.

Djokovic played roddick in the second round. Whose semi is harder, you guys take the cake seriously it is the reason sometimes I need a break. If I say water is wet three quarters of you will disagree. I mean lydian how logical to compare Novak's second round match in quality to fed's semi. Seriously, either you hate to agree with me, or a lot of you make some illogical comments whenever I make an obvious point that Djoko's draw was more difficult. I love it so unless Novak's second round opponent is better than Roger's semi opponent and for each successive round he has nothing to complain about. Ill be honest I am dissappointed with your fairness and logic here lydian but don't worry there is a fairly big mob of people who love to take me to task on this website. I have given up on most of you in terms of getting a fair shake on my posts but that is fine. Why don't you compare Roddick to the almost equally old and over the hill Bennettea? Instead you compare Novak's 2nd round opponent to fed's semi, frankly a disturbingly unfair and biased post by you lydian I expect more.

Josiah Maiestas wrote:feds draw was such a cupcake. 4.5 hours of no competition today.

So Djoko is assured of a bronze coz he will play a cup cake player in the medal round.

laverfan wrote:SoCal... for Djokovic.

Good match, Murray proved too much for Djokovic.

Thanks Laverfan, I appreciate your commiseration with me, you have always been a kind a good poster. I always felt murray was going to win this match. Grass is probably Novak's least favorite surface he is principally a much better high ball hitter, and Murray had better form coming in and the homecourt advantage. I am not too worried a player's career is all up and down, novak is off a bit just losing a lot of close sets lately that he was winning last year. He will be better in the near future people will see. Credit to murray deserved it, congratulations to his fans contrary to popular opinion couldn't happen to a nicer and more deserving player than for murray.

invisiblecoolers wrote:

Josiah Maiestas wrote:feds draw was such a cupcake. 4.5 hours of no competition today.

So Djoko is assured of a bronze coz he will play a cup cake player in the medal round.

A sh****d out cupcake at that.

May as well award him the bronze now.

invisiblecoolers wrote:

Josiah Maiestas wrote:feds draw was such a cupcake. 4.5 hours of no competition today.

So Djoko is assured of a bronze coz he will play a cup cake player in the medal round.

Actually, I was very impressed with Del Po. I have never seen him play this well on grass, he has grown and was suprisingly proficient at net. I don't think Rog played his best match on grass but Del Po deserves a lot of credit. I underestimated his development on this surface and made a bad prediction. Although let the record show I picked the right result in both semis just thought Del Po would roll over for fed.

I think Del Po is obviously much more dangerous for Novak on this surface than he is even for Roger. That is why I think the bronze medal match will be very difficult, not a cupcake in any sense. Plus Novak is not as good as Roger on the grass.

Djokovic was looking up to the stands everytime he lost a stern rally to the more skilled quick surface player. Will the final be 3 sets again?

socal1976 wrote:

invisiblecoolers wrote:

Josiah Maiestas wrote:feds draw was such a cupcake. 4.5 hours of no competition today.

So Djoko is assured of a bronze coz he will play a cup cake player in the medal round.

Actually, I was very impressed with Del Po. I have never seen him play this well on grass, he has grown and was suprisingly proficient at net. I don't think Rog played his best match on grass but Del Po deserves a lot of credit. I underestimated his development on this surface and made a bad prediction. Although let the record show I picked the right result in both semis just thought Del Po would roll over for fed.

I think Del Po is obviously much more dangerous for Novak on this surface than he is even for Roger. That is why I think the bronze medal match will be very difficult, not a cupcake in any sense. Plus Novak is not as good as Roger on the grass.

credit to Djokovic for sneaking past 45 year old late-on hewitt.

socal1976 wrote:

invisiblecoolers wrote:

Josiah Maiestas wrote:feds draw was such a cupcake. 4.5 hours of no competition today.

So Djoko is assured of a bronze coz he will play a cup cake player in the medal round.

Actually, I was very impressed with Del Po. I have never seen him play this well on grass, he has grown and was suprisingly proficient at net. I don't think Rog played his best match on grass but Del Po deserves a lot of credit. I underestimated his development on this surface and made a bad prediction. Although let the record show I picked the right result in both semis just thought Del Po would roll over for fed.

I think Del Po is obviously much more dangerous for Novak on this surface than he is even for Roger. That is why I think the bronze medal match will be very difficult, not a cupcake in any sense. Plus Novak is not as good as Roger on the grass.

Socal I appreciate your courage to come and accept the mistake you did on the draw and DP's capability. . Both players played great but the winners played better and rightly deserved the win.

Yes the better player and more deserving got the fair result. No question about that. Now maybe you guys will see why I kept moaning about his draw, how much better would it have been for Novak on the other half, we can never tell. But either way I don't believe Novak was in good enough form to win the gold medal. Not a terrible clay and grass court season for him but pretty mediocre, especially if he doesn't win the bronze match. I always feel really crappy for the 4th place finisher in every olympic event unless that person already has a medal. So it is just an uncomfortable match to be in.

ferrer's boring, stay on the backfoot style of play really irritated DP to produce a dumb match in that match. Also the fact that DP wasnt in inspired mood that day. Might aswell not safe v Del Po and let him slip into errors.

socal1976 wrote:Yes the better player and more deserving got the fair result. No question about that. Now maybe you guys will see why I kept moaning about his draw, how much better would it have been for Novak on the other half, we can never tell. But either way I don't believe Novak was in good enough form to win the gold medal. Not a terrible clay and grass court season for him but pretty mediocre, especially if he doesn't win the bronze match. I always feel really crappy for the 4th place finisher in every olympic event unless that person already has a medal. So it is just an uncomfortable match to be in.

When you feel it would have made no difference then why are you still talking about Djoko being in the other half? A champ should be capable of winning what ever draw thrown at him/her, Djoko is not the champ here and would have made no difference in which ever draw he is in.

Josiah Maiestas wrote: Will the final be 3 sets again?

It is a Bo5, JM.

laverfan wrote:

Josiah Maiestas wrote: Will the final be 3 sets again?

It is a Bo5, JM.

What about the Bronze Match?

socal1976 wrote:

laverfan wrote:SoCal... for Djokovic.

Good match, Murray proved too much for Djokovic.

Thanks Laverfan, I appreciate your commiseration with me, you have always been a kind a good poster.

SoCal.

socal1976 wrote:I always felt murray was going to win this match. Grass is probably Novak's least favorite surface he is principally a much better high ball hitter, and Murray had better form coming in and the homecourt advantage. I am not too worried a player's career is all up and down, novak is off a bit just losing a lot of close sets lately that he was winning last year. He will be better in the near future people will see. Credit to murray deserved it, congratulations to his fans contrary to popular opinion couldn't happen to a nicer and more deserving player than for murray.

I had an article this morning - https://www.606v2.com/t33303-olympic-draw-toughness-analysis - which was meant partially for you, without the emotional 'overtones' of the current article, to try and put a bit more 'science' in it. I guess my 'tables' are very boring since I did not receive any comments, but I shall refrain from any further complaints.

invisiblecoolers wrote:

laverfan wrote:

Josiah Maiestas wrote: Will the final be 3 sets again?

It is a Bo5, JM.

What about the Bronze Match?

Bo3.

Sunday 5 August
12.00
Men’s Singles Bronze Medal Match 3 sets
Men’s Singles Gold Medal Match 5 sets
Men’s Singles Medal Ceremony
Women’s Doubles Bronze Medal Match 3 sets
Women’s Doubles Gold Medal Match 3 sets
Women’s Doubles Medal Ceremony
Mixed Doubles Gold Medal Match 3 sets
Mixed Doubles Medal Ceremony


http://2012.itftennis.com/media/111275/111275.pdf (Page 31).

Did not see the match but it looks like Delpo beat the expectations. Nevertheless, would like to point out that the difficulty of Roger's match alone does not prove his draw was not easy.

One could take the view that it was indeed of a chocolatey cupkace nature, and that it is not the cupkace's fault that Roger almost choked on it.

My view is that before the matches started one would have to say that Murray was more likely than Delpo to play well. On the other hand, as it turns out Delpo was playing close to his best. At his best, I would say Delpo is better than Andy. In fact, too bad that nobody thought of setting up a thread that would discuss whether Andy or Delpo were better when playing *at their best*. That could have been an interesting one.

summerblues wrote:At his best, I would say Delpo is better than Andy. In fact, too bad that nobody thought of setting up a thread that would discuss whether Andy or Delpo were better when playing *at their best*. That could have been an interesting one.

Indeed Summerblues, indeed

summerblues wrote: At his best, I would say Delpo is better than Andy. In fact, too bad that nobody thought of setting up a thread that would discuss whether Andy or Delpo were better when playing *at their best*. That could have been an interesting one.

IMBL already created a thread for it, no idea how come u missed it.

Here is the link to the thread -

" Del Potro vs Murray: Who *at their best* is a better player? " - https://www.606v2.com/t32447-del-potro-vs-murray-who-at-their-best-is-a-better-player

invisiblecoolers wrote:IMBL already created a thread for it, no idea how come u missed it.

There was a wink at the end of my post.

Ooops My mistake

summerblues wrote:
... One could take the view that it was indeed of a chocolatey cupkace nature, and that it is not the cupkace's fault that Roger almost choked on it.

For the second seed, Rafael Nadal, who follows Murray onto Centre, there is also a tall order, but strictly (he and his camp trust) in physical terms. Rafa's second round opponent is a 6ft 5in Czech, Lukas Rosol, whom he has never previously faced. At 36, Rosol is one of the more mature people on the circuit and is clearly a slow improver, having not cracked the top 100 in the rankings until last year. This is his first time at Wimbledon and one that will surely have to be put down as a learning experience for someone whose prospects appear bleak against one of the best movers and hardest hitters in the sport.

http://www.wimbledon.com/en_GB/news/articles/2012-06-27/201206271340830255860.html

He’s never been a tournament finalist – let alone a titlist - and lost in the first round of qualifying in his last five Wimbledon attempts. In 10 years on tour, he’s never progressed further than a ranking of world No.65. They are both aged 26 but in tennis terms, Rosol and Nadal were, until now, poles apart.

http://www.wimbledon.com/en_GB/news/articles/2012-06-28/201206281340917493214.html

Contrast the two statements 24 hours apart and we can discuss the 'chocolatey cupcakes'.

IMVHO, a draw in the top echelons is always a tough draw.

Del Potro was two points away from winning today's match 4 times, IIRC. Federer was two points away from USO 2009 trophy. It is very close and crowded at the top. Federer has consistently kept himself above his opponents those invisible nanometers. I was completely gutted for Del Potro today.

I also started crying when both Federer and Del Potro cried on each others shoulders. Federer's post-match on court interview with Justin Gimelstob was an eye opener in those short 30-seconds, and then Federer turned around spoke to the Olympics Broadcasting Services. Pure heart and sheer determination was on display.

The Murray-Djokovic match was fantastic. Lendl made Murray play Djokovic like Federer, with flat shots and aggressive net play.

I expect fire vs fire on Sunday.

invisiblecoolers wrote:

socal1976 wrote:Yes the better player and more deserving got the fair result. No question about that. Now maybe you guys will see why I kept moaning about his draw, how much better would it have been for Novak on the other half, we can never tell. But either way I don't believe Novak was in good enough form to win the gold medal. Not a terrible clay and grass court season for him but pretty mediocre, especially if he doesn't win the bronze match. I always feel really crappy for the 4th place finisher in every olympic event unless that person already has a medal. So it is just an uncomfortable match to be in.

When you feel it would have made no difference then why are you still talking about Djoko being in the other half? A champ should be capable of winning what ever draw thrown at him/her, Djoko is not the champ here and would have made no difference in which ever draw he is in.

Except if you are Roger then you can just feast on the cupcakes that the federer fans on the draw committee keep throwing you. Just like in Dubai when they stuck Andy in Novak's half as well. I am sure at the ouset Fed was terrified by the prospect of David Ferrer/Del PO semi.

Sad.

I feeling sad for somebody too