Celts coaching in Aviva

First topic message reminder :

Nigel davies. Gloucester
Bryan redpath. Sale
Connor oshea. Harlequins
Lyn jones. London welsh
David young. Wasps
Mark mccall. Saracens

Just wanted to point this out as it once again illustrates the dominant influence that celtic rugby is having on northern hemisphere rugby which is good to see.

Scrumdown wrote:Ok coaches from the rabo countries.

Ok then, how many Non celtic coaches are coaching in the Rabo?

Biltong wrote:

Scrumdown wrote:Ok coaches from the rabo countries.

Ok then, how many Non celtic coaches are coaching in the Rabo?

Can't be bothered to re-type

ScarletSpiderman wrote:Rabo Head Coaches

Edinburgh - Michael Bradley (Ire)
Glasgow - Gregor Townsend (Sco)
Treviso - Franco Smith (RSA)
Zebre - Alessandro Troncon (Ita)
Connacht - Eric Elwood (Ire)
Leinster - Joe Schmidt (NZ)
Munster - Rob Penney (NZ)
Ulster - Mark Anscombe (NZ)
Blues - Phil Davies (Wal)
Dragons - Darren Edwards (Wal)
Ospreys - Steve Tandy (Wal)
Scarlets - SimonEasterby (Ire)

Rabo -: 3 Irish, 3 Welsh, 1 Scottish.
Jeff-: 2 Irish, 3 Welsh, 1 Scottish

Not too much difference there, except our non-national coaches are all SH

So, basically, across both leagues we have 4 english head coaches and 13 from the rabo. Proves my original point. The dominant influence in the rabo countries are the unions whose main goal is to develop the game including both players and coaches in their countries. In england, however, the game is run by the big egos of the likes of Ryan walkinshaw at gloucester, keith barwell at northampton etc who are more interested in self promotion, and care less for the well being of the game as a whole.

I think you'll find that most of these Rabo teams would have probably gone for experienced overseas coaches, but they just don't have the funds. Nothing to get on your high horse about mate.

And it's funny that you mention Northampton when they have an Englishman coaching them...

gowales wrote:I think you'll find that most of these Rabo teams would have probably gone for experienced overseas coaches, but they just don't have the funds. Nothing to get on your high horse about mate.

And it's funny that you mention Northampton when they have an Englishman coaching them...

I agree with you that the rabo teams do not have the finances available to prize coaches away from overseas and it is more out of necessity that they are having to develop their own coaches. My view however is that this is a good thing. Not sure what your view is? You dont seem to have any!

ChequeredJersey wrote:What does Celts even mean? You are not the same Nation or race!

How is Celtic not a race? Unless you are distinguishing between Celtic P or Celtic Q.

By the way some of the Rabo teams don't have a problem financing foreign coaches hence why Ulster, Leinster and Munster are all coached by New Zealanders.

Artful_Dodger wrote:

ChequeredJersey wrote:What does Celts even mean? You are not the same Nation or race!

How is Celtic not a race? Unless you are distinguishing between Celtic P or Celtic Q.

They were a germanic people that settled in France, Britain and Ireland over 2000 years ago; and haven't called themselves Celts since then... Why do some refer to English as Saxons?

Debatable Morgannwg, they originated at the River Danube which spans many countries not just Germany. But you say they haven't called themselves Celts in eons, when actually they have. The Celtic League in Rugby is one example, but there are many examples of Celtic influences in Irish, Scottish and Welsh culture today, particularly with regard to insignia and symbols.

I'm not debating any of that, excpet for the fact they didn't call themselves Celts until somebody brought it back up in the 1800s. Though I'm not sure who. You would probably find as many with this celtic genetic background in England as you would in Ireland, Scotland and Wales. Just saying.

Morgannwg wrote:I'm not debating any of that, excpet for the fact they didn't call themselves Celts until somebody brought it back up in the 1800s. Though I'm not sure who. You would probably find as many with this celtic genetic background in England as you would in Ireland, Scotland and Wales. Just saying.

+1.

It's a term some people use but it means about as much as Saxon, or Norse or Latin. The bloodlines are heavily mixed and Ireland and Scotland and Wales and Britain were all colonised by multiple different groups of "Celts" and other tribes since before what we think of as the current English came around- like the Picts and Scots, whom you cannot refer to as the same peoples as the Gallic Celts of Wales, Cornwall or France. It's why I'm not a huge fan of that type of labeling. I have Scottish and Irish blood. Does that make me less of an Anglo-Saxon? Is there such a thing all these generations after all these tribes mingled with other ones?

I dunno if this is meant as some 'point scoring' article but this comment...

"keith barwell at northampton etc who are more interested in self promotion"

proves that the OP is somewhat lacking in his knowledge, and is trying on a bit of one upmanship.

Laughed my socks off at that one.

Just as well in this warm weather.


Actually, we are very happy with Dai Young at Wasps. The guy certainly knows what to do with a pint of foaming ale.

Scrumdown wrote:

gowales wrote:I think you'll find that most of these Rabo teams would have probably gone for experienced overseas coaches, but they just don't have the funds. Nothing to get on your high horse about mate.

And it's funny that you mention Northampton when they have an Englishman coaching them...

I agree with you that the rabo teams do not have the finances available to prize coaches away from overseas and it is more out of necessity that they are having to develop their own coaches. My view however is that this is a good thing. Not sure what your view is? You dont seem to have any!

That didn't seem to be your view.

You're just demonising the Premiership clubs for the sake of it.

What a sad article.

If you're not happy with having digs at English/AP players & teams it's the coaches?!?!

Seriously who cares what nationality coaches of clubs are as long as they're successful.

Morgannwg wrote:I'm not debating any of that, excpet for the fact they didn't call themselves Celts until somebody brought it back up in the 1800s. Though I'm not sure who. You would probably find as many with this celtic genetic background in England as you would in Ireland, Scotland and Wales. Just saying.

You wouldn't actually. DNA tests have been done to prove my point. Englands had more invasions including being occupied by Romans for hundreds of years and then the Germanics came.

Scotland is a mixed bag. In general the lowlands would be closer to the English/Saxons while the highlanders would be more Celtic.

Sgt_Pooly wrote:What a sad article.

If you're not happy with having digs at English/AP players & teams it's the coaches?!?!

Seriously who cares what nationality coaches of clubs are as long as they're successful.

Because by continuing to fill up the premiership with foreigners, be they coaches or players, english guys dont get a chance and the national side has suffered as a result. A country, the size of England should not be relying on the rest of the world to provide it with its coaches and players. It should be a net exporter of coaching excellence and playing talent, helping to develop and expand the game.

Why should it?

What are your points based on? How is the AP filled with foreigners more than any other nations league on a team basis?

You're exactly the type of person who gives the majority of good Welsh posters a bad name on here!

profitius wrote:

Morgannwg wrote:I'm not debating any of that, excpet for the fact they didn't call themselves Celts until somebody brought it back up in the 1800s. Though I'm not sure who. You would probably find as many with this celtic genetic background in England as you would in Ireland, Scotland and Wales. Just saying.

You wouldn't actually. DNA tests have been done to prove my point. Englands had more invasions including being occupied by Romans for hundreds of years and then the Germanics came.

Scotland is a mixed bag. In general the lowlands would be closer to the English/Saxons while the highlanders would be more Celtic.

Yes and they have as much Germanics and Norsemen as Ireland, Scotland and Wales. And if you remember the highlands were also raided by Vikings for hundreds of years. Also note that the Normans were orginally a Nordic people.

Sgt_Pooly wrote:Why should it?

What are your points based on? How is the AP filled with foreigners more than any other nations league on a team basis?

You're exactly the type of person who gives the majority of good Welsh posters a bad name on here!

My points are based on the number of foreign head coaches in the aviva. The AP is filled with more foreigners in my opinion due to the influence of the millionaire owners. Ive already stated this previously in the thread.

The AP has more foreigners because it has more teams, it's not hard to understand.

Sgt_Pooly wrote:The AP has more foreigners because it has more teams, it's not hard to understand.

Your point is hard to understand insult removed as England has a larger population base and therefore should not have to rely on imported talent, even if it has 12 teams.

So in your theory France should have to rely even less on foreign imports as it has a bigger population than England?

You're obviously just trying to wind people up in a pretty moronic way, have a fun day.

Scrumdown wrote:

Sgt_Pooly wrote:The AP has more foreigners because it has more teams, it's not hard to understand.

Your point is hard to understand insult removed as England has a larger population base and therefore should not have to rely on imported talent, even if it has 12 teams.

The irony!

Please don't feed the animals. Over-feeding results in an excessive amount of excrement.

Cherry any news on what team glaws are putting out today?

Sgt_Pooly wrote:So in your theory France should have to rely even less on foreign imports as it has a bigger population than England?

insult removed

Not necessarily as, as im sure you already know france has 14 teams in its top division but has a large enough population base to fill those 14 teams with homegrown talent. Phillipe standre has already spoken out about the number of foreign players in the top 14. Imagine how strong new zealand rugby would be if there wasnt such a high demand for rugby players and coaches in europe. This demand is mainly driven by the short term outlook of the top french and english clubs who prefer to import talent rather than develop their own. This is damaging for the game as a whole as it both weakens a nation such as new zealand and also france and england as youngsters in those countries are not being given opportunities to play coach.

We don't have that many imports in the AP at the moment do we? At Quins our matchday 22 has something like 4 foreign players.

And France is full of English players as well as Welsh ones.

LeinsterFan4life wrote:Cherry any news on what team glaws are putting out today?

Yep, its a mixed team of 1st teamers and youngsters:
Cook, Monahan, Molenaar, 36, Clark, Taylor, Lewis; Thomas, Dawiduik, Knight, Brown, Savage, Buxton, Hazell, Kalamafoni

All England EPS players are rested due to the training camp.

ChequeredJersey wrote:We don't have that many imports in the AP at the moment do we? At Quins our matchday 22 has something like 4 foreign players.

And France is full of English players as well as Welsh ones.

You are correct regarding quins who are definitely a club doing things the right way.

Scrumdown wrote:

Sgt_Pooly wrote:So in your theory France should have to rely even less on foreign imports as it has a bigger population than England?

You're obviously just trying to wind people up in a pretty moronic way, have a fun day.

Not necessarily as, as im sure you already know france has 14 teams in its top division but has a large enough population base to fill those 14 teams with homegrown talent. Phillipe standre has already spoken out about the number of foreign players in the top 14. Imagine how strong new zealand rugby would be if there wasnt such a high demand for rugby players and coaches in europe. This demand is mainly driven by the short term outlook of the top french and english clubs who prefer to import talent rather than develop their own. This is damaging for the game as a whole as it both weakens a nation such as new zealand and also france and england as youngsters in those countries are not being given opportunities to play coach.

I actually think the restirction to 5 franchises and the way that the NZRU has run them has led to the decrease of super rugby and ITM cup popularity in NZ. Everything is aimed at the AB's there and the world cup every 4 years, which i think is a short term view.

gowales wrote:

I actually think the restirction to 5 franchises and the way that the NZRU has run them has led to the decrease of super rugby and ITM cup popularity in NZ. Everything is aimed at the AB's there and the world cup every 4 years, which i think is a short term view.

Short term view? That's a new one, especially when you consider they are the most successful team in the world and their Super rugby franchises are the most successful.

From what i've heard the elite level of rugby is being focused on too much, whilst the grass roots have been neglected.
Some people believe this, some people don't.
The truth is though that League is starting to grasp a foothold in NZ, and they have vastly more funds and freedom in their club set up. A millionaire recently invested in the NZ Warriors (NRL franchise), he wanted to do it with a Super rugby franchises but he was given a crap deal. People can relate to it more as well because it's a better product than Super rugby. There could even be another franchise soon, which could really start to eat into the talent pools in Auckland.

P.S.
Scrumdown, you're talking out of your arse about youngsters not being given a chance in England (France i can agree with). Their U20 players probably have the most pro experience out of all the countries in the Junior World Championship. The thing is they tend to play them when they are ready for the step up, not rush them in for the sake of it.

You are talking about things that could potentially happen, things that may not happen. I don't think grassroots is suffering either, NZ keep on producing some of the best Junior teams. Not to mention always being one of the best Sevens teams.

gowales wrote:

Scrumdown wrote:

Sgt_Pooly wrote:So in your theory France should have to rely even less on foreign imports as it has a bigger population than England?

You're obviously just trying to wind people up in a pretty moronic way, have a fun day.

Not necessarily as, as im sure you already know france has 14 teams in its top division but has a large enough population base to fill those 14 teams with homegrown talent. Phillipe standre has already spoken out about the number of foreign players in the top 14. Imagine how strong new zealand rugby would be if there wasnt such a high demand for rugby players and coaches in europe. This demand is mainly driven by the short term outlook of the top french and english clubs who prefer to import talent rather than develop their own. This is damaging for the game as a whole as it both weakens a nation such as new zealand and also france and england as youngsters in those countries are not being given opportunities to play coach.

I actually think the restirction to 5 franchises and the way that the NZRU has run them has led to the decrease of super rugby and ITM cup popularity in NZ. Everything is aimed at the AB's there and the world cup every 4 years, which i think is a short term view.

But the nzru have to work within a budget, and therefore cannot increase franchise numbers unless there is both a strong economic and rugby case for doing so although im sure it would be very popular to do so in say taranaki. There would be more of a rugby case if they werent losing dozens of players each year to japan and europe. .insult removed

Just delete it Kiwi, there was only ever one intention from the OP

Sgt_Pooly wrote:Just delete it Kiwi, there was only ever one intention from the OP

Double standards

Brilliant