Sonny Boy Williams ,Man,Myth,and Magic

Better known as Money Boy Williams,my background is well known here as is the side I support so I won`t repeat it here.Long before the last RWC at least 18months .The drums were beating SBW is at Toulon he wants an AllBlacks place for the RWC.,he had already broken a contract at Rugby league.To join Toulon for more money also he had some sort of boxing career against not particularly good opponents for cash,before quitting them for NZ.What is the most likely route to an AllBlacks squad ?THE CRUSADERS so he signed for them,played well at Super level but failed to break up.The established 12/13 combo for the AB`s he then using the excuse he was afraid of earthquakes he jumped ship and joined the Chiefs.Hardly had the Super15 started and the Hype started he`s going to Japan not just for sabbatical,but then he`s signed up for League in Australia because his ban was over.He brings something to Rugby Union that few have an offloading style common in League but rare in Union.He is a good player and to be fair to him when he plays for a side he gives it his all,BUT he is for SBW first and his team second he never signs for more than one year.He has yet to prove he can do it against the best sides in the world the 4Ns,BUT it is academic. All thru the Super Series the hype was building i`m staying with Chiefs and NZ when reality was it was already signed.HAD he broken into the AllBlacks as a starter in front of Nonu or Conrad he would in my opinion have stayed.Again we are getting the hype he will be back for 2014 with the Chiefs in build up for the next RWC.Wanna Bet it`s already rumoured he`s back to Toulon for a nice little earner,I don`t live in Nz and i`m not blinded by the light.I don`t really care what people think of me or my opinions,mine is as valid as any.I am a hardened cynic and this Man has proven he has no loyalty to any but his bank balance.It is pointless the AllBlacks Hierachy depending on the guy long term because he won`t be there unless the price is right.

You could look at his actions as lacking loyalty or you could look at it like he's making the most out of the short career he has. He has only actually broken the one contract (one to many) and has done everything possible for teams he plays for on the pitch.

Surely teams know what they are getting by now. A great player, just don't try to build the team around him.

Rugby players only have a short career and some will always be left wondering what it would be like to play in the other hemisphere or in the other code, at this tournament or at that tournament. SBW won't, he'll have pretty much seen them all and generated a heft bank balance to retire on by the time he finishes as well.

He is a fantastic player there is no doubt. I’m over his code hopping though, I’ve just accepted it and like Sam says a Rugby player’s shelf life is getting smaller. This is why there is only one Brad Thorn and not another 100 odd 37 yr olds running around in professional rugby.

SBW will be back, there’s no doubt. Alan, he never said that he was signing up with the Chiefs again, though he did state that if he could go back on his original decision –made before he came back to NZ - he would stay with the Chiefs.

I’ve kind of stopped worrying about what happens when we lose a player now....another one comes along pretty quickly these days, ready to do the history of the jersey proud.

Who says kiwis are blinded by any light. Where you expect loyalty we are practical. Where you think he's a traitor we are open minded. You honestly think the ABs come before all else?

He's made it obvious he's not willing to commit to anything. Were well over that. Were happy to have him play if he plays the way he has. Hansen has said hed welcome him back and its a two way streak. If it suits both why not.

Thers a mutual respect and all seem ok with it.

So its up to you to carry a grudge Alan. I can respect that too.

Emack, one thing I note that you didnt comment on is how well liked and respected he is with his team mates, Was there a reason for this?

I carry no grudge but I do expect loyalty,IF he can break one contract he can do it again.I fully understand the man has a right to secure a good living for himself yes.Yes I do expect a player once he has become an All Black to be loyal to that team.SBW could do as otheres have sign sabbaticals in Japan for big bucks.Be back for the Super series maybe miss a couple of games and resume a AllBlacks career.THAT is the Future as opposed to going to Europe relatively easy lucrative employment then back for Super/Test Rugby best of both worlds.I`m Practical too Hansen may be being diplomatic as well with his words.As to not building a team around him THAT is precisely my point,use him as a convenience not the other way around.Yes there are other players around and I think SBW has been used as a cattle prod on Nonu!!!!

What is slightly distrubing is that Dan Bowden has turned down the chance to return to NZ because an offer from the Leicester Tigers has given him a great chance to advance his career (his words). That's not the disturbing bit, the disturbing bit is that he has now said he would consider qualifying for England under residency rather than every returning home to contest the AB shirt!

I'm English and that isn't on in my book. He's barely been here five minutes and if he wants to play for Tigers then that's cool (we've had some great SH 12s, in Mauger, Gibson and Howard) but not just to land an England shirt and grab some cash. They really should be looking to make it a minimum of 5 years for residency!

Personnally I consider that worse than code hopping and chasing cash in Japan or France.

Auckland Laurie if you reread my post you will note that I said he devoted his FULL efforts to the team he was playing at the time.I assumed the rest followed as a corollary.No doubt the League side he walked out on respected and likedhim till then.

Just seen some scumbag has burgled Rennies home while he was at the match
disgraceful.Also I am not happy with the idea a player ANY player can slip in and out of an All Blacks side when it suits them.

What's SBW plan after his Japan stint?

Emack a couple of months ago Sonny bills house was robbed while he was away with the Chiefs, Would those burglars be scum bags as well.?

Morgan – a stint in the NRL plus a big payday fight in Sth Africa I think. He’ll most likely play for the Sydney Roosters (heaven knows we need a big name player right now).

Dan Bowden? Not the greatest player in the world and certainly not good enough for the All Blacks. If he wants to play for England and makes it, then good on him. No loss to us.

emack2 wrote:Auckland Laurie if you reread my post you will note that I said he devoted his FULL efforts to the team he was playing at the time.I assumed the rest followed as a corollary.No doubt the League side he walked out on respected and likedhim till then.

No emack nothing follows as a corollary, because you also said he only shows loyalty to his bank balance, which is a little unfair considering the size of some donations he has made to communities in New Zealand, I should also state that he is well respected by his teammates and coaches, the bulldogs are only one of many teams that he has played for.

Look, in my view SBW is doing what is best for him. The fact is he is good enough at what he does to be in high regard in both codes, do I think any player should be hyped like this? No.

But you can't take away from him what he has achieved. Some players want to be the best they can be in one code, others have different goals in life.

In a recent article by an old Bok, I read that less than 5% of professional rugby players in SA will be in such a financial position that they will be well off when they retire, and in most of those cases have something to fall back on, such as a tersiary education, the loylaty thing is to oneself as much as we as fans hate to admit it.

I think the fanfare that follows him is over the top, but that doesn't take away from the fact that he is a very talented footballer.

formerly known as Sam wrote:What is slightly distrubing is that Dan Bowden has turned down the chance to return to NZ because an offer from the Leicester Tigers has given him a great chance to advance his career (his words). That's not the disturbing bit, the disturbing bit is that he has now said he would consider qualifying for England under residency rather than every returning home to contest the AB shirt!

I'm English and that isn't on in my book. He's barely been here five minutes and if he wants to play for Tigers then that's cool (we've had some great SH 12s, in Mauger, Gibson and Howard) but not just to land an England shirt and grab some cash. They really should be looking to make it a minimum of 5 years for residency!

Personnally I consider that worse than code hopping and chasing cash in Japan or France.

No offence to Dan Bowden, but he was only a middle of the road first five in NPC (its that long since Ive seen him play) but he wouldnt be in the top ten five eighths in New zealand if he were to return home.

chewed_mintie wrote:Morgan – a stint in the NRL plus a big payday fight in Sth Africa I think. He’ll most likely play for the Sydney Roosters (heaven knows we need a big name player right now).

Then Alan does have a point. Carter and McCaw were offered sabbaticals because they are loyal to New Zealand rugby, as is every other current All Black. SBW hasn't done enough service to be given treatment like this. I remember McCalister thought he could return from Sale and get back into the All Blacks before the 2011 RWC but it didn't go according to plan. Sonny is putting his All Blacks career in jeapourdy. I do think he is a special sort of player though and wish he would stay in NZ (as that way I get to see him play) before thinking about higher earnings.

I dont understand this none of the New Zealanders dont have a problem with him going off an making his fortune and enjoying his athletic talent, yet its the non new Zealanders that think he is being disloyal and is putting his All Black career in jeopardy?

To be fair Morgan, Luke McAlister undertook a drop in standard, intensity and skill level when he left NZ. SBW isn’t exactly going to a holiday park (Japan aside), the NRL is the toughest physical competition in the world. You play week in, week out for 26 wks and if you can’t hack it then you don’t go the distance. He’d actually be honing other skills because what he gets away with re offloads in Union, simply the NRL teams won’t let happen. What I mean is he’ll have to develop that particular skill further and also develop other skills at the same time. He’ll come back to rugby probably a better player skill wise, unlike Lukey Mac.

If he does come back and doesn’t make it, well it’ll just be the next port of call for him and that would most probably be Toulon or boxing.

aucklandlaurie wrote:

I dont understand this none of the New Zealanders dont have a problem with him going off an making his fortune and enjoying his athletic talent, yet its the non new Zealanders that think he is being disloyal and is putting his All Black career in jeopardy?

This is a very interesting point. I think it may be because most non-New Zealanders see playing for the All Blacks as the pinnacle of world rugby and can't imagine giving that up for anything else. Whereas from a more local point of view New Zealanders can be more pragmatic in their opinion of the situation. Does that make sense, not sure i've worded that right!

To be fair Morgan, Luke McAlister undertook a drop in standard, intensity and skill level when he left NZ.

To be honest Mintie I think he was made to look better than he was in that RWC and back in NZ because he was surrounded by very good players. When the pressure came on at the RWC he didn't show up and when he has been at less successful teams more recently he has looked average. At Sale he never really wowed, took the money and ran back to NZ where he showed that he was fairly average again so ran off for a pay day in France where he has had mixed reviews.

Overrated because of his size and goal kicking range for me.

Tbh I have no problem with SBW, he's young and looking for adventure. He's already seen, taken part in and achieved more then any of us could ever hope to and that's all while acting like a pro and setting a good example to the next generation of players.

So he will never be a one club man? I say so what, he has the skills to be good at anything and I am pleased that he's willing to go and try anything.

Honestly I am bloody jealous of him.

I'm getting tired of all this "loyalty" crap people keep talking about in rugby. Why can't a man just do what's best for himself and his families future

Some interesting points have been made here some I was`nt aware of SBW burglary and his donations for example[and yes the Scumbags bit applies for him too].Also as a Non NZ resident I DO see being an All Black as THE PINNACLE in World Rugby.Any person has the right to do the best by himself and his family
few have the abilities SBW has.BUT it seems that his choices and the Hype is over the top.IF you look at the thing from his TEAMs point of view a contract that allows him to box as well as play Rugby.Where he may get injured is contrary to the best interests of his team Super or Test.
AS to "LOYALTY" crap the privilege of being an AllBlack falls to relatively few ,
and players in the past would and did gave up every thing to become one.

formerly known as Sam wrote:What is slightly distrubing is that Dan Bowden has turned down the chance to return to NZ because an offer from the Leicester Tigers has given him a great chance to advance his career (his words). That's not the disturbing bit, the disturbing bit is that he has now said he would consider qualifying for England under residency rather than every returning home to contest the AB shirt!

I'm English and that isn't on in my book. He's barely been here five minutes and if he wants to play for Tigers then that's cool (we've had some great SH 12s, in Mauger, Gibson and Howard) but not just to land an England shirt and grab some cash. They really should be looking to make it a minimum of 5 years for residency!

Personnally I consider that worse than code hopping and chasing cash in Japan or France.

Are you seriously saying Bowden is an All Black contender?
Tell me you are joking!

Who's dan bowden?

Bowden used to play first five for North Auckland about 3 or 4 years ago.

Ok, never heard of him but I tended not to follow ITM as closely...'drained' by the sxv and 3N by then.

Alan what you probably havnt seen down here is the long and gradual process where SBW's wishes, no matter how odd or warped or irrelevant they are. have been considered by both the Chiefs and AB's.

Its been done in a professional, transparent and friendly manner which as far as I'm concerned is a breath of fresh air in this sometimes intimidatory environment.

He has the general support of his team mates, coaches, and finally, most fans. There are some that think hes holding everyone to ransom but in looking at it all with our eyes wide open its ended up in a fairly good postion overall.

No bridges have been burnt and I think the process was proven when Smith became unavailable. SBW probably wasnt in the thinking but as he was still under contract for the Oz matches it suits both sides for SBW to play them. In fact the Japanese also supported the move.

Personally I think he'll find it tough leaving the Chiefs(!) as hes been key in the meteoric rise of this side this year and hes continuously gone on and on about being with they guys in this side.

Where I was once against all the ra ra hes caused everytime he's fronted hes been nothing but humble, non confrontational and respectful in all his dealings.

Its a little odd, and perhaps we're not used to it, but its been handled well overall I'd say.

he needs to realise that one day he wont be calling as many shots when his value as a player declines but until then...why not. And I'd love to see him against those Ozzie backs!

Yeah Sonny Bill seems to be well like and supported by his team mates, take a look at this snippet of about a fortnight ago.maybe bromance is taking it a bit far!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bHuk0OE95A0

Are you seriously saying Bowden is an All Black contender?

He's only a contender for the Tigers 12 shirt, how is he going to be an All Black contender? No, just pointing out that there are far worse acts of mercenary style thinking than that of SBW in the game these days and that at least SBW is mixing up his experiences and sampling different cultures as opposed to purely chasing the money.

Playing for your country should be an honour for anyone, but I don't see being a NZ international is any greater an honour than representing any other nation.

Plenty of players have chosen to cut short their international career or try other ventures and SBW shouldn't be castigated any more than them.

I'm hoping we see him fight someone decent at some point rather than the usual overweight binman.