Man Utd thread

[Liam]

First topic message reminder :

There are a few Utd fans like myself on the board but like the LFC one set up, everyone are welcome to discuss Utd's results and news etc..

Playing Barca tomorrow night, only a pre-season game but would like to see Kagwa given a run out tomorrow night see what he's got against the best.

[compelling and rich]

Rooney being forced out?? Dont talk rubbish, that clown has been sat back putting in mediocre performances for the last three years, yet has the ego to dicate that we need to make big signings which we do in rvp who turns outs put rooneys place in danger then he crys foul play saying he's been treated unfairly

The guy thinks hes something special, there is no one bigger than the club and I would rather have a disciplined manager like moyes who knows this than some brown nosing European manager who lets his players have too much power

[Ent]

Moyes has said he is not for sale, then put his foot in his mouth suggesting he is back up for rvp whilst Rooney isn't with the squad - he's dropped an absolute clanger there and there is no two ways about it.

[MIG]

To be fair though Rooney is not 1st choice ahead of van Persie so why would he say otherwise? Ok maybe he didn't need to say it, but maybe he said it to spark something in Rooney to make him play better? Or maybe he wants rid of him to free up the wage bill in preparation for a returning Ronaldo?

[Bull]

Anyone seen how many fans ripped Wayne apart on twitter?
with the hashtag #thingsthatangerandconfusewaynerooney

One of them was Ross and Rachel being on a break   

[Ent]

To be fair though Rooney is not 1st choice ahead of van Persie so why would he say otherwise?  Ok maybe he didn't need to say it, but maybe he said it to spark something in Rooney to make him play better?  Or maybe he wants rid of him to free up the wage bill in preparation for a returning Ronaldo?

Why say it when he isn't with the squad so he cannot talk to him face to face?

If he wants to sell him he is reducing his value with this approach.

Full judgement at end of transfer window, but unimpressive so far.

[Guest]

Regardless of whether its only pre-season or not. United with another glaringly obvious display of a need of a midfielder

I fear we're putting all our eggs into one basket in this pursuit of Cesc. I know Moyes has come out and said he was never in for Thiago (I don't believe for a second - there's no smoke without fire) but if we fail to get Cesc as well then people are seriously going to be calling into question not just Moyes, but Woodwards ability to attract players

Worst of all I still see us ending up with just Fellaini as well

[Ent]

Thiago now saying we were never in for him.

Why the delay in the fabregas offers then.

Very bizarre.

[Guest]

I see Mike phelan has come out today and said that Ed Woodward has been concentrating on the commercial side of the business. Bringing money in as opposed to spending

I thought that was pretty obvious by the lack of player signings but the 1237 new sponsorship deals we've agreed this summer

[The_Enigma]

Managed to get down to Old Trafford this past weekend to see my first Manchester United game this season. After watching the highlights, I've got to say it was very deceiving as Southampton were more than worth a point on the day.

Very impressed with Southampton, under-rated team who got their tactics spot on by pressing United's back-line for the entire game. Southampton had their fair share of the ball within the first 20 minutes causing numerous problems as United countlessly gave the ball away. Evra, Rooney, Jones and Fellaini were all poor in possession.

Januzaj, arguably was the only bright spark for United going forward, threading numerous through balls slicing the back-line open, which eventually lead to United's goal. Southampton kept going and credit to them, they looked a real-handful from both full-back areas.

Winning 1 of our 4 last home games speaks volumes, the team aren't really playing that well and if anything Fellaini has worsened the side.

[compelling and rich]

posted this in the premier league thread, thought id stick it here, covers similar points to you enigma

not been on much over the weekend but thought id stick my two penneth in about Mr moyes

went to the game Saturday and have to say i was extremely disappointed in what i saw. Southampton are a decent side and worth the point but the mind set of the current side is just plain wrong. this side won the league by twelve points last season and while we expected a dip post fergie i never thought we would be struggling as badly as we are

i was one who initially didn't want moyes, just didn't see what his CV offered that was worthy of being next manager of united, but once he was offered the job he got mine and the majority of united fans support straight away (there was plenty of support on Saturday for him despite the result). and i also firmly believe ALL managers need to have time to build there own squad, but here is where my true worry is with moyes.

what type of squad is he building? on saturday as soon as we took the lead you could see a change and we went more negative straight away. rooney for smalling being the obvious example, add to this extremely negative performances against liverpool, chelsea, WBA and shaktar, where we barely had a shot on goal all game. this may well have been successful tactic in a small everton team where he was punching above his weight but its simply not acceptable in a united team. under fergie we would have put the game on saturday to bed simply by keeping going at them, instead we sat back and invited them on to us at OT?! could see the equaliser coming a mile off soon as we did it.

the other side is if we let him build his own team, what style and team is it going to be. felliani looked totally out of his depth saturday, looked so slow and just couldnt keep up with the speed of the game. carrick next to him is just as slow but looked assured and comfortable, never let anybody past him while felliani was having rings run round him. hopefully this will improve as he settles in but not a promising start from his only marquee signing. other strange choices have been nani's new 5 year contract?! and playing him, over young players like zaha/kagawa who haven't had a sniff yet.

his team selections have been poor, giggs on the right wing twice this season? anderson has had a couple of games.  the only bright spark in the whole season has been the emergence of januzaj, who sadly for me looked a class above anybody else wearing the united shirt on Saturday. great for him but question marks over the rest of the team that they are getting totally out shined by a 18 year old (jones and evans had great games at the back for us which frankly sums how poor we were at home)

so far Moyes 3/10, need a massive improvement in results and the way were playing. we haven't looked like a team with any idea what to do going forward. RVP has been totally starved of service and we have been very poor to watch

minimum requirement is top 4 anything less without big improvements in how we have been playing is simply not good enough one season in or not

[The_Enigma]

There's not a thing I disagree with in that last post. Excellent Read. Although I didn't go into to much detail, there's similarities between both post

Tactically, all of Moyes substitutions were very poor and negative on Saturday. The Smalling change was key, I understand why he moved Jones into midfield, but the lack of marking for Southampton's equaliser surely questioned that there was confusion on who was marking who. Half the team had to move positions 3 times to accommodate the subs, still never understand why a 40 Year-Old Ryan Giggs has played on the right-wing and in centre mid, why not use Kagawa or Anderson.

You know you've played poor when your biggest contribution (And Fans Support) was leaving the field. Yes I'm looking at you Fellaini!

[compelling and rich]

the other bit i also really dont like is how the club and seems many fans have bent over backwards over rooney. sold there soul just because he's one of our better players (awful on saturday)

fergie interview today reaffirms that he asked to leave again, and other issues like keane and beckham have always showed that we have been better showing them the door. nobodies bigger than the team, if rooney were to go, someone else might step up (kagawa playing in his strongest position is the obvious one) who might also start supporting RVP a bit better.

for all rooneys supposed dramatically improved form this season what has he actually done other than a couple of free kicks?

[Guest]

There's not a thing I disagree with in that last post. Excellent Read. Although I didn't go into to much detail, there's similarities between both post

Tactically, all of Moyes substitutions were very poor and negative on Saturday. The Smalling change was key, I understand why he moved Jones into midfield, but the lack of marking for Southampton's equaliser surely questioned that there was confusion on who was marking who. Half the team had to move positions 3 times to accommodate the subs, still never understand why a 40 Year-Old Ryan Giggs has played on the right-wing and in centre mid, why not use Kagawa or Anderson.

You know you've played poor when your biggest contribution (And Fans Support) was leaving the field. Yes I'm looking at you Fellaini!

I hate to say it as he has been a magnificent servant for the club and the sport in general, but I honestly believe the only reason he still gets picked is because he is Ryan Giggs. We have to remember this isn't the Giggs of yesteryear regardless of how fit he has kept himself. Thinking of other top team midfields in the prem I can't think of one he'd get close to

I hate the fact that Kagawa is still being suffocated of oppurtunities and then when he does play he'll get dropped because he has a bad game. No time given to build up form or confidence. I can see him requesting a transfer in January and going back to Dortmund, especially with the World Cup at the end of the season. I mean how would you feel seeing your coach get picked ahead of you

As for fellaini I felt the timing of the transfer was all wrong. It was never in doubt that he would end up a United player which begs the question why the deal wasn't done as soon as the window opened. He could have had a full preseason with a new team, settled in to a different midfield and we would have saved ourselves roughly 4 million. I'd sooner not have signed him, screamed of desperation

The Nani deal is a really strange one. I don't think there's many people in the football world who have seen any progression in the guys game, certianly none enough to warrant a pay rise and new 5 year contract

Why isn't Zaha on loan? We've got a kid here with bags of ability but no stage to develop his talent. If he's not getting football at Old Trafford then he should be getting regular football somewhere. personally I'd start him on the right and Januzaj on the left

As for Moyes he needs to realise that he isn't at Everton anymore. He isn't at a club who are happy to be around top 6 every year. No disrespect to Everton and their fans but we're a much bigger club and with that the expectations are much more great. His negative tactics of protecting a 1-0 lead aren't good enough, the performances under him so far have been uninspiring to say the least and some of his squad selections (West Brom at home) have been so naive it borders on stupidity

I will say however I am not going to write Moyes off. I think so far this season has merely highlighted how great a manager Sir Alex Ferguson actually was. Our current squad is average, few good players in the mix. To win the league like we did was either nothing short of miracle like work from SAF or the league has a distinct lack of quality, I think a mix of the two

It also doesn't help that the has been an overhauil at the top as well. I would have liked to have seen Gill stay on another year to ease Moyes' transition, then hand the reigns over next summer. I still put the blame on our laughable summer on Ed Woodward, Gill would have got things done, quickly and out of the public eye. Yet this summer we had three very public, and very embaressing courtings of midfield players and ended up with a completely different one at the 11th hour

Moral of the story? So far not good enough, but its a learning curve in both positions and I think everybody expects improvemnet going forward

[Good Golly I'm Olly]

Anybody going to the cup game tonight?

I know we're taking 7,000 apparantly, I'm not going (£45 a ticket ffs, Arsenal-Chelsea is just a tenner)

[compelling and rich]

Anybody going to the cup game tonight?

I know we're taking 7,000 apparantly, I'm not going (£45 a ticket ffs, Arsenal-Chelsea is just a tenner)

working tonight so wont make it, i'll make sure i'll be watching though

45 seems very steep, only 35 for few of the united lads i know who are going. they are season ticket holders though

[The Fourth Lion]

My, oh my.... how soon the grumbling starts.   How soon the doubts about Moyes begin to creep in.  

Does anyone remember how Sralex exhorted that huge crowd who turned up to see the Premiership trophy lifted to "Get behind the new manager".  But that was in the May sunshine, with a shiny trophy being hoisted aloft and a party to be celebrated.   Now the season is almost into a misty November and United's fans are looking at a meagre points tally, moderate performances and last season's disjointed opposition looking as if they are, at last, getting their act together.  

Oh, how the mighty are falling, and some are starting to choke on their prawn sandwiches.  But is it all bad..?  I'm not so sure.  But let's first have a look at the opposition:

Chelsea aren't exciting, but they are efficient and what's more important, they believe in the Jose factor.  Liverpool are improving steadily under Brendan Rodgers and Arsenal are absolutely resurgent,  Osil has fitted in seamlessly and Giroud even looks like a striker now..!!  Spurs and Everton are far less fragile and Southampton have a steely edge about them too.  Not a team full of stars, but a team nonetheless and if they keep this roll going, they could be quite a nuisance up the top of that table.  City will struggle if Joe Hart doesn't get his head together, but when Kompany comes back and once Pellegrini finally works out what his best team is, they will be formidable again.

What does this mean to Manchester United.... well, if, as is hoped, the result against Stoke last Saturday somehow kick-starts their season, they will start to put the pressure on everybody else again, and nobody exerts pressure on the top of the league better than Manchester United.

But they have to be wary of falling any further behind for one simple reason.  It might be a relatively straightforward task, when you're in a two horse race, to get ahead, or if necessary, reel the opposition in.  But when there are a number of other clubs in the mix, you have to reel them ALL in, and not all of these clubs are going to falter.  City may drop away..... Southampton's bubble may burst.... Spurs might lose form..... But that still leaves Chelsea, Arsenal, Liverpool and Everton getting the results that prevent United climbing into that coveted Champions League place, let alone winning the title.

In the event of that happening, the head-to-head matches against the top teams would be of paramount importance.  Genuine six pointers.  The thing is.... has this United team got what it takes any more to come through in so many big matches..?

It's all very intriguing stuff.  But it can be no surprise to United fans that nobody outside Old Trafford is sorry to see the back of Sralex.  He would have whipped things into shape rinky-tink.  But he's not there now, is he..?   He's not there to make the big calls, or psyche out the opposition or intimidate referees into adding on more time when United are pressing for that late winner. And if he does interfere, and the players, or worse still, the press get a whiff of it, then Moyse's' authority and credibility goes right out of the window.  He would be seen as a puppet, dangling on a string being pulled by you-know-who.

Personally, I don't think SAF will intervene.  For better or worse, United have to roll with David Moyse, who is a good man and I'm sure will climb the steep learning curve that is set for him.  But it won't help if the grumbling and booing if the team don't win-by-rote against the lesser teams continues.

United fans have to realise that their team is now seen as being vulnerable.  The aura of invincibility has been greatly diminished, if not, demolished.  They can be got at and teams are prepared to have a go at United in a way that they were afraid to attempt before.  Rather than run out onto the Old Trafford pitch with a 'damage limitation' mindset, opponents are now thinking 'maybe.... just maybe' and their performances will be all the stronger for that.  That is something you're just going to have to get used to.

I think United are still capable of winning the Premiership.... they haven't become a bad team overnight.   But they are going to have to get that edge of ruthlessness back at home, and ensure they grind out wins in the six pointers that matter.  If they don't win the Premiership, then I would be very surprised if they failed to finish in a CL place.

But it isn't going to be any easier if the fans show faint heart and grumble about the manager.  He was Sralex's choice.... as the banner in the stadium says:  "The Chosen One".  

Perhaps it's time for some of those grumbling United 'supporters' to show they haven't got the faint hearts that are starting to look evident.   So.... what have you got..?  What are you going to do...?  Get behind the manager and the team, or stuff another prawn sandwich in your mouth.?

It's your call.

[compelling and rich]

not sure ive seen too much booing other than at weekend when nani was taken off, and quite frankly was well deserved for that waste of space. he's been at the club six years and i think he has only gotten worse yet moyes gave him a new 5 year contract. his reward from nani, yet more mediocre performances

think most united fans have been willing to give moyes a chance, but there has to be a point in which a manager is proven out of his depth and not good enough to step up. im not saying that of moyes yet, but so far his team selections and the teams performances have not been good enough, along with his transfer dealings

should we sit back and watch him take a club that won the league by 12 points into a team that struggling to make top four? we have been spoilt as fans having fergie for so many years, but we are clearly the biggest club in the league and challenging for the title should be a minimum requirement for a club our size. we will give the team support like we always do, dont think anybody can claim OT is a negative crowd. but blind faith isn't going to get us anywhere we as fans expect better than the team and moyes have produced so far, dont see anything wrong with pointing this out?

[Ent]

I thought the booing was embarrassing if I'm honest.

Say what you want outside the ground, on forums etc but negativity in the ground never helps.

Nani unfairly scapegoated, in a few games this season he has been out main threat. Rather a player like him than cleverly who hides from the ball.

[compelling and rich]

dont think nani is being made a scapegoat, just that people have had enough of his rubbish performances

in all my time watching united, cant think of any players that have been booed off. kind of sums up how rubbish nani has been for so long

[Ent]

So how many are liverpool going to put past us this weekend?

I'm gonna say 3.

[compelling and rich]

i have no idea how were going to turn up these days, have to expect liverpool to take points off us though

[Crimey]

It will be a very interesting game, I wouldn't be so dismissive of your chances, can see the occasion getting to Rodgers and he might play a more conservative team with Joe Allen or with three centre backs.

[LivinginItaly]

In one sense I'm more confident of liverpool's chances given the fact we are playing away. Hopefully the onus will be on the utd to attack which will in turn leave more space for the SSS to exploit.

[Ent]

Meh we can't attack, I expect liverpool to have most of the ball.

Our form is frightening.

The last good team we took a point off was Arsenal away. the last time we beat a competent side was Swansea in January. The last time we beat a team currently in the top half of the table was West Ham in December and I think they were hovering around the bottom 3 then.

In 2014 we have only beaten West Brom, Cardiff, Palace, Swansea and Sunderland (losing the tie).

We've been beaten by Olympiakos, Stoke, Sunderland, Chelsea, Swansea and Tottenham. Drew with Fulham and Arsenal.

We are very likely going to be hammered.

[LivinginItaly]

Ok, but what I mean is that if the game was at anfield moyes would probably set utd up to sit deep and look for a goal on there break. However I don't think the fans would allow utd to play so defensively at old trafford.

[Ent]

We'll end up deep anyway unless you guys aim to counter attack because we are rubbish at keeping the ball.

Just looking at the fixtures here, out of the current top 10 we have only beaten west ham this season.

We've to play;

Good sides; liverpool and city
average sides; everton
competent sides; Southampton, Newcastle, West Ham, Hull
Rubbish; Villa, Norwich, Sunderland

I genuinely worry where we will finish this season as I can only see Villa, Norwich and Sunderland being likely wins. Only got Hull at home outside of the top 4 sides.

[compelling and rich]

all season ive been expecting us to pick up some form and go on a run, im still waiting. think im being ultra optimistic from the fergie days that part of me still expects it

cant see moyes attacking liverpool, he's ultra negative and will probably see a draw as a good result. he set up negative against chelsea and arsenal

[Ent]

We couldn't set up a good run from Jan to March when we only had 2 hard games, not gonna happen now.

[The Fourth Lion]

There was a sense of 'payback' about Liverpool's performance this afternoon. They owed United for some pretty hard beatings in the last dozen years or so, and there will be a lot of satisfaction on Merseyside tonight, not only at the result, but at the way United capitulated.

Nothing makes Liverpool fans happier than to see United supporters streaming out of the ground early. I thought I heard the catcall "We can see you, we can see you, we can see you giving up." emanating from the Liverpool section of the ground.

Giving up. Ouch.

It wasn't a classic performance by Liverpool and of the three penalties, I felt only the first should have been given. Surely Vidic's red card will be rescinded when the FA look at the TV footage. The gods of football frowned on Gerrard's third spot kick, making sure it didn't go in. Justice of a sort.

But even if only one pen had been given, I still think a single goal would have been enough to win the game for Liverpool. Suarez's late strike was pretty superfluous in terms of the overall outcome, but he'll have enjoyed it just the same. Sralex certainly wasn't enjoying it. When the cameras focused on him in the crowd, his face was like thunder. He was one very unhappy bunny.

The Scousers would have loved that too.

[Guest]

A few weeks ago I felt that Liverpool would have no chance of competing for the title but that we would have a say in who the eventual winners were. Even up until kick off yesterday I had a feeling that Utd would trip us up and scupper our chances of being in with a shout but I have to say that after about fifteen minutes I was pretty confident that even if Utd scored it wouldn't be more than a consolation goal. Their confidence is utterly shot to pieces and I think that we had an opportunity to inflict the kind of beating that lives long in the memory.

For whatever reason though we were unable to create/take the chances but I was very happy with the overall performance. The midfield four of Gerrard, Henderson, Sterling and yes ALLEN were superb. One of the online papers gave Sterling a pretty low score citing the fact that he wasn't bombing down the wings but it was obvious from the set up of the team that he was there to break up play and feed Sturridge/Suarez and he did it very well indeed.

Was disappointed with Sturridge's dive for the third pen and hope Vidic's red is over-turned but Carrick's trip on him was a stonewall pen but the fact it wasn't given shows that Clattenburg knew he'd dropped a clanger earlier in the game.

Really don't know where Utd go from here. Wednesday is probably their biggest game of the season and should they lose, you can see Moyes actually getting the boot not long after. Fergie's influence at Old Trafford is huge and, given the size of his ego, I can't seem him allowing himself to be humiliated by Moyes' ineptitude any longer.

It's almost taken for granted now that Moyes will find a way to f**k things up and his defeatist attitude is crippling the team (3-0 down and you bring on Rio...you may as well have got on the P.A. system and begged Liverpool to go easy on you). The press attention will be on Fergie now looking for signs that he's going to try and influence the board in getting rid of Moyes. ("Ooh look, Fergie didn't smile for very long there, he's definitely got the knives out ready! Dun dun durrrrr!!!!!!!!!")

I'm sure many people dreamed of the day when Utd would implode and how they would revel in it but the fact of the matter is that it's actually becoming embarrassing to watch them. My wife's a Utd fan so this weekend was tortuous...she's 8 months pregnant and not at her most level headed these days but even she can't believe how poor they are.

[88Chris05]

Thing is Dave, I don't know what United would get out of giving Moyes the boot now (or after they go out of the Champions League this week, which they surely will). There's nothing to be saved or salvaged for this season; realistically, they were out of the running for a top four spot a while back, and while their European form was pretty good in the group stages, most would agree that, even if they magically got through this week, the first 'big' team they come across in the competition will make mincemeat out of them in any case. Neither of the domestic cups on the line, either.

Given all of the above, and how strongly Ferguson and the board drilled home the concepts of continuity, faith in the manager, support even through the hard times etc, I think United fans will have to make do with Moyes until the summer at least. Besides, any really suitable candidate isn't going to be prized away from their club as the home stretch of this season comes in to sight.

I genuinely thought that Moyes would be a success at United. Who knows, he still might turn out to be in the long run. But while like most I thought there would be teething problems early on, I never imagined he'd look this much out of his depth. Panic buying, defeatist attitude in interviews, getting rid of important backroom staff, his point blank refusal to drop players when it's clear that his systems (his four-pronged attack of Januzaj, Mata, Van Persie and Rooney being a prime example) just aren't viable etc - all smacks of someone who is just flinging together whatever tactics come to him first and hoping for the best.

[Guest]

Getting rid of Moyes would shown the players and fans that the club are willing to make the necessary changes to put right their mistakes. Even playing with an interim manager for the remainder of the season the players know that they aren't going to have to follow the orders of a man who just seems so utterly clueless. I think Moyes struggled to gain the respect of the team from the outset but their shocking form means that whatever respect he DID garner has long since gone and, were they to continue this run of form, it would undoubtedly transform into dissent/contempt/hostility.

Before that happens, Moyes needs to go because any decent manager Utd look at signing is not going to want to be a part of a club that displays such outward hostility and lack of respect for it's leader. Best to cut of the foot rather than risk losing the whole leg.

I remember back when Roy Hodgson took off Torres one match and the looks on the faces of the team seemed to say "What the **** is this old fool doing now?" Like Hodgson, Moyes is a decent bloke who has managed to retain his dignity (kinda) under very difficult circumstances and whilst part of me would love to watch him drag Utd into the mire, a bigger part of me doesn't want to see him become a complete laughing stock.

Like I said, I thought I'd enjoy Utd's fall from grace but it's a bit like watching a once great actor in a cheap local theatre production stumbling over his lines and wetting himself on stage...it's embarrassing rather than amusing.

[TRUSSMAN66]

The problem as I see it........Is that Utd have picked a complete novice for the job.....

Being kind to Moyes he had relative success at making teams hard to beat........in other words nick a goal and try to shut up shop........

He has no management experience with egos or at managing a team with attacking players that can play good football........

He also hasn't got any way of having a go at the players..who just turn around and say "What have you ever won!!"

Van Persie would have been hauled off by Fergie yesterday but Moyes knew there would be consequences in the dressing room after so he left him on !!.........

He also got rid of Fergie's backroom staff who had a rich heritage of success and brought in Phil Neville types..........Geez........

Like I said Utd is a world away from managing a team full of no names that work hard to stop you scoring while you try to nick one..

It's alright for Pulis to say If he had the City job he'd light a cigar and sit back.........It's not easy managing egos and keeping harmony.........It needs experience and man management skills..

Moyes is a novice..........

[Ent]

No united fans really wanted moyes as manager, it was the football apologists who claimed he was great and had done a fantastic job at Everton.

They also said fellaini was a good player and would be a great signing etc etc

It's just embarassing really, I can barely bring myself to watch anymore.

[Liam]

Just a complete mess and hard to watch as a utd fan. I've defended Moyes all season but its just quite clear that tactically and as a manager of big players, he hasn't the foggiest idea. From the 10th minute, you could see we needed to change our game plan and he point blanked ignored the danger signs. As a manager you need to be flexible and realise when something isn't working. The one that stands out for me was when we played Arsenal a few years back away, and Scholes was getting torn apart by Fabregas. Fergie realised his tactical error, dropped Scholes deeper and he absolutely destroyed Arsenal after that.

Yesterday, he should have changed the formation to deal with Liverpool's quartet and instead just hoped our attacking quartet of RVP, Rooney, Jauzaj and Mata just did something. RVP was terrible yesterday and a strong manager would have realised that the games was crying out for Welbeck. Not saying it would have changed the result, but we saw the impact he had last week allbeit against WBA, and in fact Welback has been excellent all season. Just goes to show Moyes is too afraid to bring off one of our 'big players' despite him playing rubbish. Fergie hardly played rooney last year simply because he wasn't performing. He didn't care if Rooney sulked, he did what was best for the team. Moyes doesn't seem capable of doing so. I mean, we have talented players on the bench in Kagawa and Welbeck who just don't get a look in, yet are very good players who offer something different. Its frustrating to watch but no point in changing now. Simple fact is, who will want to come in the summer and play under Moyes after this season's fiasco. I'd cut our losses and look to bring in someone like Klopp, because I just can't see it improving.

[Soldier_Of_Fortune]

No united fans really wanted moyes as manager, it was the football apologists who claimed he was great and had done a fantastic job at Everton.

They also said fellaini was a good player and would be a great signing etc etc

It's just embarassing really, I can barely bring myself to watch anymore.

Ahhhhhw dimdums, try being like this for 3 to 4 years!

[compelling and rich]

you know things are bad when were crying out for wellbeck to come on!!

id sack him now and give a giggs or g.nev the reign till the end of the season to see what they could do, they couldn't possibly be any worse than moyes is doing. then in the summer see what other managers are available

the one good thing moyes has done, is that he's made taking over at united a lot easier and less pressurized, as nearly anybody else will seem like a miracle worker after moyes

[Hammersmith harrier]

The defining moment for me was when we went on a decent run even when still playing rubbish that his defensive tactics really came to light. I've tried backing Moyes but it's clear now that he's not up to the job, he has no comprehension of how to get the best out of players except for Rooney. Even then he has experience of working with him many years ago so knows his attitude fairly well but the likes of Mata and Van Persie are world class players not playing as they can. His treatment of a genuine talent in Kagawa is also baffling, if you're not going to give him a chance then why buy a similar player in Mata?

[electronaut]

Seeing as no decent manager is going to be free until post season/WC, I think that the only thing to be gained from sacking Moyes before the summer and putting someone in charge on a temporary basis would be to publicly say "hey we are looking for a new manager" (letting the stock market/sponsors and fans {in that order as money comes first} know that they are doing something) - in reality Man Utd will have been putting out the feelers already as to not be doing so would be bad management by the board (as all clubs do when looking for players/managers)

So whilst I don't think a new manager would be announced until post season/WC they would probably have got their man beforehand who can then prepare a list of potential targets before the market opens as the transfer market will go mad after the WC (as per every post tournament market) whereby players who are generally average but have a good tournament will suddenly become the hottest thing on the market and drive prices even further insane

However I do think Man Utd are going to have to pay a premium as they will realistically be without CL football (and at this rate europa) and every selling club knows that they will have them by the balls

[Guest]

Been saying Moyes was clueless for months. It's desperational management for everybody to see when you decide to pick your team, as if you were playing fantasy football. In previous threads, I said, picking the fab 4 of Rooney, RVP, Mata & Januzaj would not work & it proved to be. The fact he stuck with a formation that was getting ripped to shreds was embarrassing. He's bought two players United did not need, why keep Rooney as the no.10 & then buy another no.10 in Mata? Amateurish on all levels. Not focusing on buying players in the key areas that needed improvement is another huge mistake. He can't motivate the players, he shouts continuously & nobody listens, it must be painful to watch as a United fan.

Moyes moments of the season
1 - Getting destroyed by City away
2 - Moyes' face when De Gea let Sunderland equalise
3 - Moyes' face when Olympiacos scored the second goal (sits back & shuts his eyes)
4 - Moyes celebrating taking the lead vs Fulham - Two minutes later Bent scored, comical
5 - The banner Liverpool fans produced this weekend. Moyes managerial genius!

As for the summer, can't have this guy spending £100m, it would be suicidal. I say wait for Klopp or Van Gaal, someone with genuine standing in the world game & vital experience of managing big players in the top level of european competition

[Liam]

ESPN reported today that Moyes may well be sacked in the summer with Louis Van Gaal replacing him. At the moment, its needed because we need a manager who can attract players through his name alone, because what player will want to come and play for Moyes without champions league football.

I would also say Moyes has done utd well in a way. It means that the next man to take over doesn't have the pressure of following Fergie, just simply do better than Moyes has done, which isn't a difficult feat. I do feel for Moyes because he seems a decent man. As a manager though, he is woefully out of his depth and just as Fergie has held his hands up in regards to getting transfers wrong, he should hold his hands up now and accept that choosing Moyes when a proper shortlist and interview process should have been deployed was a mistake.

[Ent]

Moyes mistakes were all early on, getting rid of successful backroom staff, replacing them with little or no experience. Poor transfer window, negative tactics early season leaving us with a lot of work to do.

Whilst the players should be doing better they are only human and have been badly effected by all of the above and are really lacking in confidence when playing.

Mata became a transfer target (even though we dont play a system that could accomodate him) because we were so lacking in quality that someone who could control and pass the ball was very desirable. The move hasn't worked and we now see why Mourinho wanted rid of him.

It has gone beyond painful, it is so bad I barely care anymore - I just laugh at how bad we are and the state we have gotten into.

Hand on heart we would be challenging for the league with Fergie involved.

[Liam]

Mata is still an excellent signing, it just means Rooney should be played up top with Mata in the no.10 position. We need a winger like Reus with Januzaj on the other wing.

It can work, but it would probably mean that RVP should be sold for the benefit of the team. Keep Welbeck and Hernandez as back up strikers to Rooney. Rooney had one of his most, if not his most successful season goal scoring wise when he played right up top. He needs to be played there again.

[Duty281]

With a Champions League exit seemingly probable tomorrow, against a not very special Olympiakos team, and another difficult Manchester derby next week, it won't be beyond the realms of possibility that Moyes is gone next week.

It could be worsened by the game against West Ham on the weekend; the knives really will be sharpened if United slip up there.

[Liam]

On the other hand, an amazing comeback vs Olympiakos and winning the manchester derby may be the games we look back on that saved Moyes and led him to success with utd as the FA cup win with Fergie did.

Somehow though, something tells me this isn't going to happen in a million years. Most I can see is a close win on wednesday but going out on away goals. Drawing against west ham then a comfortable loss vs Man City at home. That should see him sacked imo.

[Born Slippy]

The issue with Moyes seems to be the absence of a plan. Mata is a class schemer but he isn't going to burn down the wing. Its hard to see what the intention was in signing him. Same with Fellaini to some degree - he seems to be being deployed as a holding midfielder which isn't really his best position.

The BBC suggestion was moving to a diamond with Mata as the diamond point and Carrick in the Gerrard role. I could see that working as it would give a lot more midfield cover and Rafael/ Evra can provide width. It might also stop Cleverley and Fellaini from trying to be David Batty clones if they had four in the midfield.

[Guest]

City will look to hammer the nails into Moyes' coffin by giving Utd a real hiding. One has to ask if Utd can't get up for the match with Liverpool, what hope have they got against City? They should be grateful Sergio is crocked as it could be one hell of a painful night.

If Fergie was in charge and Utd were in this position you could see Big Sam rolling over and letting them win (pompous fat oafish sycophant that he is) but I'm sure he'll see a win over Utd as being a real possibility and thus ensuring they avoid a relegation tussle

[compelling and rich]

if i were city i wouldn't hammer us, they should be delighted the longer moyes remains in the job

[Liam]

The issue with Moyes seems to be the absence of a plan. Mata is a class schemer but he isn't going to burn down the wing. Its hard to see what the intention was in signing him. Same with Fellaini to some degree - he seems to be being deployed as a holding midfielder which isn't really his best position.

The BBC  suggestion was moving to a diamond with Mata as the diamond point and Carrick in the Gerrard role. I could see that working as it would give a lot more midfield cover and Rafael/ Evra can provide width. It might also stop Cleverley and Fellaini from trying to be David Batty clones if they had four in the midfield.

Agree with this and it should've have been demployed against Liverpool after the first 10 mins. Yet he ignored the fact Liverpool were dominating in midfield and continued to play the 4-4-2 formation. He seems obsessed with maintaing utd traditions, constantly referring to wide men and getting crosses in, not realising that when that was happening, we had Giggs one wing and Becks on the other! We haven't been a crossing team for a while now apart from Valencia in 2010 when he was on fire. For the league, i'd be looking to play:

Carrick

Fellaini Flethcher/Cleverly

Mata

Rooney

RVP

Trouble is leaving Janzaj out which seems implausible atm so we'll need to figure out how to bring him in. At the moment i'd drop RVP and play Rooney up top with Mata in behind him. Against Olympiakos i'd play:

Carrick Fellaini

Valencia Januzaj

Rooney
Welbeck

[Ent]

I wouldn't be having Januzaj in the team currently, his form isn't great - impact sub probably best for him rather than heaping the pressure on him.

I'd go for
De Gea
Jones Smalling Evans Evra
Carrick Fellaini
Valencia/Mata Rooney Welbeck
RVP

when fit, just to make us hard to beat and actually able to run in a game. Desperate times and all that.

[Sponsored content]