Man Utd thread

[Liam]

First topic message reminder :

There are a few Utd fans like myself on the board but like the LFC one set up, everyone are welcome to discuss Utd's results and news etc..

Playing Barca tomorrow night, only a pre-season game but would like to see Kagwa given a run out tomorrow night see what he's got against the best.

[compelling and rich]

no matter what formation we play at the moment its still going to be a case of round holes and square pegs, because it is very unbalanced mainly due to moyes signings

i dont actually believe when attacking formations are that important, some managers are far too rigid. players like rooney/mata/januzaj should be given free reign to drop into where theres space. its requires abit of intelligence on the players part that if mata has dropped in the ten postion a rooney probably needs to push wide to find the space there. and im not sure rooney has the intelligence or the humbleness to do this but i couldn't care less whats best for rooney, weve proven this season that whats best for rooney isnt always whats best for united.

id start rooney left with mata central but give them licence to swap and change between all 3. think kagawa would suit this formation better also and could easily be brought in for januzaj. if rvp is sulking up top give wellbeck a run, at least he works his arse off and does bring other players into it. he will also be able to stretch the defence in behind with his pace something which we have nothing of at the moment. if he does this it creates space for the players in behind him

if rooney whinges drop him, we all know moyes doesnt have the balls to do this but rooney isnt technically good enough to play the ten position no matter how many people keep telling me, he's all physicality and bustle. his touch isn't good enough and hasnt the short range vision. he's fine spraying 60 yards ball across the field, but there pretty easy to defend against as the defence always have time to shift across.

finally we need centre mids who can actually run, all of our cm are so slow they just sit off and protect the space in front the defence instead of actually pressing the man on the ball. as a result teams have found it extremely easy to play against us and have plenty of time on the ball

[TRUSSMAN66]

Not sure why so many of you are giving City the derby.......

We lost to Wigan...Drew with Norwich..Lost to Barcelona twiceand only snuck past Stoke late on.......

Sure we beat Hull........

Not exactly consist are we ??..

[compelling and rich]

Not sure why so many of you are giving City the derby.......

We lost to Wigan...Drew with Norwich..Lost to Barcelona twiceand only snuck past Stoke late on.......

Sure we beat Hull........

Not exactly consist are we ??..

you have seen us play recently havent you? also think were better away than home currently, old trafford certainly isnt a fortess anymore, id be amazed if we could nick a draw

[Guest]

nah we'll beat city at home
City will turn up expecting the win and we'll catch them off guard, plus Moyes wont be in charge so we might have somebody who can inject a bit of the pride into the lads

[Guest]

Gotta admit that all the adverts on TalkSport for Match day live VIP tickets at the "Theatre of Screams" all sound faintly ridiculous what with all the talk of pride and passion when watching Utd taking on their biggest rivals.

It's almost karmic after the club stated that a failure to buy tickets for the Olympiacos game would mean season ticket holders wouldn't be able to buy tickets for the Manchester Derby

[Guest]

'This is the biggest club in the world. It might not feel like it today, but it is. And it will rise again,' Moyes said, addressing the media at the pre-match press conference ahead of the UEFA Champions League second-leg tie against Olympiacos,

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2583492/Moyes-bullish-eve-Olympiakos-My-position-not-threat-worlds-biggest-club-rise-again.html#ixzz2wKmJoUkN
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So you're admitting that you and the club have failed then David?

[electronaut]

I  think  the  current  record for lowest finish  after  being  top  flight champions
is 17th  by  Leeds in 92 just  after  the  premiership  was  whelped  by  that SoB,  although Blackburn  did  get  relegated 2  years  after  winning  the  league,  also  in  the  premiership - I  think even Moyes  can't  do  that  much  damage

[The Fourth Lion]

I  think  the  current  record for lowest finish  after  being  top  flight champions
is 17th  by  Leeds in 92 just  after  the  premiership  was  whelped  by  that SoB,  although Blackburn  did  get  relegated 2  years  after  winning  the  league,  also  in  the  premiership - I  think even Moyes  can't  do  that  much  damage

Manchester City finished 21st and were relegated in 1937/38, after being League Champions in 1936/37.

I'm surprised none of the United boys on this site have brought that little snippet up before now.

[Champagne_Socialist]

How do you confuse a Manchester United fan?

Show them a map of Manchester...

[socal1976]

The biggest concern for me if I was a United fan would be how ineffectual the 65 million pounds used on Fellaini and Mata has been. That is a huge amount of money that basically has produced very little in terms of results. If anything United were better before spending  that much money on transfers. I mean can you entrust this man to spend the massive money that we have heard is earmarked for improving the team next year? If Moyes makes bad signings next year and spends 100 million and still can't get this team to the Champions league that might be something that has a longterm impact on the club and might take years to fix. I think they should  sack him and fast so that the new manager will have a full  off season to bring in the players he wants and United can openly start the hunt right away with the hopes that by the last day of the season they already have someone all but signed.  They should already be putting out feelers to the big names they will need that big name coach to rebuild. Sell RVP now, he had two good non-injury years in a row and now the old Robin has showed up and he is getting older and not happy there.

[Duty281]

'This is the biggest club in the world. It might not feel like it today, but it is. And it will rise again,' Moyes said, addressing the media at the pre-match press conference ahead of the UEFA Champions League second-leg tie against Olympiacos,

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2583492/Moyes-bullish-eve-Olympiakos-My-position-not-threat-worlds-biggest-club-rise-again.html#ixzz2wKmJoUkN
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So you're admitting that you and the club have failed then David?

I'm sure they will rise again, whether it will be under the leadership of Moyes remains to be seen.

Massive week coming up for him and United - turn it around against Olympiakos, beat West Ham, and avoid defeat to Manchester City. Three steps. Whilst it wouldn't rescue a horrific season, it may just garner Moyes some more time and give the Premier League Champions some stability.

However unlikely it seems.

[Guest]

agreed Socal

Fellaini was an awful signing borne out of panic and frustration, Mata seems to have been signed as a statement more than anything. Yeah we're playing rubbish but we can still attract some of the best players, even if it is a case of trying to fit a square piece in a round hole

but tomorrow night United will win 3-1 and go out on away goals and Moyes will be sacked by the weekend so c'est la vie

[socal1976]

agreed Socal

Fellaini was an awful signing borne out of panic and frustration, Mata seems to have been signed as a statement more than anything.  Yeah we're playing rubbish but we can still attract some of the best players, even if it is a case of trying to fit a square piece in a round hole

but tomorrow night United will win 3-1 and go out on away goals and Moyes will be sacked by the weekend so c'est la vie

I mean if it is true that they pursued Cesc, and that they wasted a lot of time thinking they were going to pry him away from Barcelona and Fellaini was a last minute panic buy well that doesn't reflect well on Moyes or the club. Cesc is already a fixture at Barca and wants to retire at his boyhood club, how could they misread that situation if the stories are true? Based on his first two transfer totalling 65 million, I would not have a lot of faith that he will spend wisely in the summer. And it is clear from the mumblings we have heard that he has lost control and respect of the players he already has.

[Guest]

Man Utd can take heart from Liverpool...we signed Charlie Adam FFS.

[electronaut]

Man Utd can take heart from Liverpool...we signed Charlie Adam FFS.

No one can surely ever beat Souness' greatest signing for us (Southampton) - Ali Dia   

[Guest]

Well thats our season done and lets be honest a very difficult and disappointing campaign, moreso if THAT TEAM win the league
 
But I have to say I ca't remember the last time that United fans could be genuinely excited (not leading into a cup final or match of some kind) for whats going to happen going forward
 
Even winning leagues there was no denying that United haven't had the best teams these past few years, with more people pointing out how poor the standard of competition was as opposed to how good we had been. This Summer for the first time in a long long time our squad will have the face lift it has so badly needed for a while
 
Forget the lack of champions league football, if you offer the right sum of money a footballer won't even remeber what that competition is
 
I am genuinely excited for the Summer now to see the comings and goings, and what I think will actually be the new era at Old Trafford

[Liam]

agree gaz, summer can't come quick enough and while i'm not going to get too excited with twitter rumours its fantastic to see that there is finally some clear intent to rebuild the squad.

What was great though was the experienced players leaving at the end of the season all had their final swansong in a utd shirt in a big game, with Vidic scoring that header, rio solid in the 1st leg and evra with the screamer. However, they all showed why we need reinforcements defensive wise!

[compelling and rich]

cant say i share your optimism, i can see a summer similar to the one just gone, getting linked with every man and his dog (especially big names) then signing none of them only to get a couple of panic buys towards the end.

we can offer money, and thats about it. cant see moyes being a big pull to many of the top continental stars, especially with no champions league

[Guest]

Moyes hearing the right noises & agents saying their player is interested is different to getting them to sign a contract this summer, when competition will be sky high. I await the first signing, would be amazed if its a player of the calibre of Mata or a name of that profile & standing in the game. Can see it ending in disappointment in my opinion, players like William Carvalho, maybe Herrera again or Garay. Shaw will end up at City or Chelsea.

On the flip side though, bag Toni Kroos early & that will send a sign to others about this rebuild & its potential. That's what's so exciting, which way will it go for United? Get it wrong & its into the doldrums.......

[compelling and rich]

its always exciting getting linked with big names, but ultimately means nothing if we dont get them

our name always gets thrown into the hat because agents know we can offer top wages, and normally there angling to get more money out of there current club. got a feeling kroos will be one of those, just cant see why he'd want to leave bayern for us at the moment

[Hammersmith harrier]

A lot of it hinges on Kroos I feel, if that falls apart then I can see it being a long summer but if he does join then it's a real statement of intent. As for Carvalho, I wouldn't be disappointed if he joined in the slightest, a far better option than Cleverly who I hope leaves.

[compelling and rich]

i think clev will stay, you need squad players who wont kick off when not playing week in week out. he wont ever be good enough imo but cant imagine his wages are massive.

[Hammersmith harrier]

He's on about 40k a week, I just don't see the point of keeping a player who offers nothing, he can't be trusted to do a job like Park, O'shea or Brown.

[Dolphin Ziggler]

If United end up with Carvalho, Herrera, Garay and a left back then you still think thats gotta be good news. That would be a decent summer. Its not like the attack needs an overhaul or anything. Kroos on top of that and then its a brilliant summer. You have to consider Mata as an early present having come in the winter.

If you had that window then you'd possibly be short a Rafael replacement (who I feel is getting far too much criticism this year) and another centre back at a push but you'd expect Jones and Smalling to have improved for this season and Evans to return. Possibly a winger too.

[compelling and rich]

evra, vidic and rio are definitely going i reckon. would like to see us shift young and nani as well, got kagawa, januzaj, valencia, mata and wellbeck all above them who can play that position (even if its not matas or kagawas strongest position). at least one if not both replacement for rio or vidic are already here. so i make out we definitely need three players as replacements, hopefully 4 in if you count our weakness in midfield as a must

[Hammersmith harrier]

I'd say a centre back, a left back and two central midfielders, not too worried about getting new wide men because I feel we should start playing narrower to get the best out of Kagawa and Mata whom the team should be built around. Kagawa has started to play more regularly of late and the guy is just class, did he give the ball away in either Bayern game?

Evra, Vidic, Rio, Nani, Young and Cleverly out, Fletcher is more than happy being the squad option in midfield and has more quality any way.

[Ent]

Squads going to be crap next year too.

Let's face it - we have always struggled to land marquee names, no cl and a donkey for a manager aren't going to inspire people.

B level or sub elite is where we will be doing our shopping, the doldrums beckon.

Ah well it was good while it lasted.

[compelling and rich]

ha ha and i thought i was the pessimistic one!!

i really dont think you can keep a animal like united down for too long ent, were miles ahead of most clubs in terms how much money we can pump in without it even effecting FFP. football has now changed even more than in the past in that money is even more vital. many clubs will be hamstrung by the FFP

worse case scenario we do similar next season and moyes will get the boot. we'll bring in a better manager who will get the best or at least better out of a talented squad and we should easily get back into top 4. arsenal look ripe especially if wenger does go, liverpool are unproven with the extra games next season and god knows what to expect from spurs. we should easily finish above everton who are massively overachieving and will lose there best player next season

[Dolphin Ziggler]

B level is where most Premier League squads shop for their other names. Cazorla was B level, Ramires, Cahill, Azpi, Ivanovic, Oscar, Sturridge, Negredo etc. All those players in the places they were before they moved to English football would move to the Manchester United of now were they still there.

You sprinkle the outside top top level players around the likes of Rooney, De Gea, Mata and RVP. Thats life. Thats what United have always done. What was Carrick, what was Vidic, what was Ferdinand?

[Good Golly I'm Olly]

B level is where most Premier League squads shop for their other names. Cazorla was B level, Ramires, Cahill, Azpi, Ivanovic, Oscar, Sturridge, Negredo etc. All those players in the places they were before they moved to English football would move to the Manchester United of now were they still there.

You sprinkle the outside top top level players around the likes of Rooney, De Gea, Mata and RVP. Thats life. Thats what United have always done. What was Carrick, what was Vidic, what was Ferdinand?

Liverpool did alright signing B level players like Suarez and Coutinho, and back in the day Torres (when he played for them)

[Soldier_Of_Fortune]

B level is where most Premier League squads shop for their other names. Cazorla was B level, Ramires, Cahill, Azpi, Ivanovic, Oscar, Sturridge, Negredo etc. All those players in the places they were before they moved to English football would move to the Manchester United of now were they still there.

If only Man United where going in for them possibly. If other Champions League teams where to be, probably not.

[Ent]

Well be in the bargain bin.

Chelsea and city can offer more money and cl, even arsenal are likely to have cl to offer (and will prob win the fa cup) along with London living.

Seriously who with any serious competition from one of the top 4 is likely to pick us?

If all we can offer is money we will get mercenaries - do we want that?

[J.Benson II]

United need to get rid of Moyes to begin with. Nothing against the guy personally but he's been a disaster.

[Hero]

I think that's a terminal view.
Yes it will be harder to acquire and there will be a number of players that we cannot acquire where CL football is a minimum requirement, that money will now have to be thrown to acquire players etc but how did City & Chelsea get into the position they are?
I wouldn't say City can throw more money at players now, they're now having to play within the FFL and as a result Utd blow them away on money they can annually throw at transfers, with the number of sponsor deals Utd have in place the debt is pretty much sorted now and that too frees up more available funds, the hit of a year out of Europe is a hit certainly but it's a blip rather than a dive.
Just because a player may be motivated by cash does not mean they're not also quality. Would we turn down a Cavani, Ibrahimovic, Thiago Silva, James Rodriguez, Falcao etc? as they're obviously lured by the cash in the French league. It will be harder and Ed Woodward will have to earn his coffers this summer rather than disappearing on his plane but Utd are still a global brand, join Utd and you become a name known across the planet, there's not many clubs that can provide that level of glamour and prestige.

[Liam]

As its been alluded to, there are some top class players out there who don't necessarily play for the TOP clubs. A player I admire who I think is and will become a world class player is Ivan Rakitic of Sevilla. He's getable, won't cost a bomb and is exactly what we need in midfield.

I keep hearing about William Carvahlo, haven't seen him play but heard he is a special talent. Could get him easily with a decent fee and our relations to Lisbon in the past.

Lallana would be a good buy also although I can't see him coming to us, maybe Liverpool as I think he'd fit their system better imo. Hopefully Nick Powell will be given game time next season as he's a very good prospect indeed. Its not all doom and gloom and there has been signs we can play good football, but that has happened when Kagawa and Mata have played together. the team needs to be built around them imo, with two cm's, a left back, centre back and possibly a right back and we'll be there or thereabouts top 4 next season.

[Ent]

If no one else is in for them we might get a player, if any of the cl clubs are we won't, it's that simple.

Says it all - a guy you haven't seen play may join for huge money. Wonderful.

City will get round the ffp.

Rakitic would be the opposite of what we need, he plays very far forward.

[J.Benson II]

If no one else is in for them we might get a player, if any of the cl clubs are we won't, it's that simple.

This.

The players United will get will be the ones that arent being pursued by other clubs.
If United are chasing a player that also have Chelsea or City for instance interested (eg Luke Shaw) then they won't get him.
The issue for United is how they can reclaim a Top 4 position next year. The current Top 4 will also make improvements over the summer.

[Dolphin Ziggler]

B level is where most Premier League squads shop for their other names. Cazorla was B level, Ramires, Cahill, Azpi, Ivanovic, Oscar, Sturridge, Negredo etc. All those players in the places they were before they moved to English football would move to the Manchester United of now were they still there.

If only Man United where going in for them possibly. If other Champions League teams where to be, probably not.

Kind of true of most clubs thought isn't it? Liverpool can try buy who they want, but if City come in or more so Madrid then they don't have a chance. The point mainly is that you don't have to pick the elite players to make a very good side.

[Hero]

I wouldn't put Liverpool or Arsenal ahead in the pecking order for a player if Utd came in despite the season lure of CL football. The stature that Utd have despite the failings of this season will still attract big names to the club.

[GSC]

I wouldn't put Liverpool or Arsenal ahead in the pecking order for a player if Utd came in despite the season lure of CL football. The stature that Utd have despite the failings of this season will still attract big names to the club.

Depends really. If Arsenal make CL and are willing to pay then they might trump United. Also Wengers future.

Liverpool I'd agree

[Fernando]

I don't know about Liverpool if they win the league it's an attraction to go there surely? compared to someone who's going to finish 6th/7th?

[Fernando]

Apparently Rooney is out for rest of season with a chipped bone in foot.

[GSC]

Attractive sure, not sure they're moreso than United until they back it up next season and/or United continue their downward trend. Spurs werent suddenly big players in the window after their 1 season

[Dolphin Ziggler]

United will not stay out of the Champions League picture long. More than anything, their business model has lead them about 50 steps ahead of anyone in FFP and they'll always be able to spend.

[Hero]

United will not stay out of the Champions League picture long. More than anything, their business model has lead them about 50 steps ahead of anyone in FFP and they'll always be able to spend.

This.

The money that is coming into Utd through sponsorship deals blows anyone else in the Premier League miles out of the water. They generate over 100m more income than the nearest Premier League club, have profits of £150m a year and have a much smaller wage ratio for players than anyone else.

[GSC]

If it werent for the Glazers debt interest, United would probably be Real/Barca/Bayern level.

[Dolphin Ziggler]

[Soldier_Of_Fortune]

PMA, Positive Mental Attitude

Easier said then done boys! Its not like your squad needs a tweek here and there. There needs to be a overhaul really, especially in defence and midfield.

I think a wage structure will be push to the limit in the summer. Without the allure of CL, the big names will want paying. Then there's sorting out of the good players and the mercenaries.

Who will yers buy? Has there been any names floating about?

[Fernando]

The main ones i keep hearing about United are Kroos/Vermaelen/Garay/Alberto Moreno/Gundogan/Gonalons & The Bender Bros.

[Hammersmith harrier]

If it werent for the Glazers debt interest, United would probably be Real/Barca/Bayern level.

Well Real and Barcelona also have debt in fact more debt than we now have but conveniently the Spanish government aren't too bothered seeing them repay it. The deal for Bale was based entirely around loans, they didn't spend a penny of their own money and probably won't ever pay it back, they were given £80mil by a bank that had been bailed out by you guessed it the UK.

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