Isle of Muck hailed as rugby world champions...

Stephen Jones claim yesterday that the Isle of Muck are rugby world champions based on per-capita basis. But he provide no clear working of his methodology to arrive at this conclusion.


http://i.stuff.co.nz/sport/olympics/7437138/Stephen-Jones-is-an-Olympic-Kiwi-baiting-champ

Can anybody suggest how is working might have been carried out? or was it just a clumsy two-pronged attack on NZ that would have been a weak WUM even by 606 standards?

Bad news for ENG and WAL however if this were true, because they would slipping down and out of the RWC seeded spots!

Why for Wales ? - there's only 3 million of us

munkian wrote:Why for Wales ? - there's only 3 million of us

The Isle of Muck go to the top, everyone else shift down one spot I guess. But if you can suggest insight into Stephen Jones' reasoning and calculation maybe we can re-organise the table properly...

Isle of Muck being ?

AWOP, The unfortunate thing is that I can find no evidence that the Isle of Muck even has a rugby team - I think you'd be looking at the Islay or Mull as more likely contenders - hope that's helpful

munkian wrote:Isle of Muck being ?

The smallest inhabited island in the Western Isles of Scotland

The guy is obviously an ar*e and it pains me to hear that he's a fellow welshmen. His column/articles are never well written or well thought out.

However, if Zew Zealanders are attributing their low medal haul to a small population, then unfortunately their rugby team has been shooting them and their theory in the foot for years as they've managed to have consistently the best team in the world for 3 or 4 decades from this same small population. It doesn't work both ways. Either population size influences ability to compete or it doesn't. The All Blacks prove that it doesn't. Maybe saying that not many people in the population do athletics could be a valid reason, but that is more cultural than population dependent, i.e. if everyone in NZ stoped playing rugby and started athletics then they'd probably win a lot more medals.

The All Blacks are one of the great 'exceptions to the rule'!

On another note Jamaica has a smaller population than NZ but does pretty well on track. And, NZ is above SA in the medal table even though SA has about 15 times more populatiuon than NZ. Actually, apart from China and the USA at the top of the medals table I can't see a great deal of correlation between population and medals at this olympics.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_population

Doesn't excuse Stephen Jones from being an ar*e though! I feel sorry for Stephen Jones the player - one of the nicest guys around but shares a name with that idiot. I'm sure some people think they're the same person.

Yes, I don't buy the "per-capita" argument. NZ is a bit player in the Olympics because there is not funding or following of many olympic sports and athletes with ability tend to get channeled into rugby instead is my view. It probably make the achievement of the NZ athletes who do get world's best at the olympics a great achievement on that basis to be "black sheep" and follow their own goals with little help. I would expect NZ to do better at sailing and canoeing to be honest because a lot of people on the water there on the weekend. I think it more about priorities than population.

There is something about genetics that bely the argument that we are all equal that become apparent at the olympics and too in rugby as most sports. For some reason we are not allowed to say that Kenyans on the whole make better long distance runners and people from the carribean seem to be great sprinters and I'm not sure it's about socialisation or upbringing or coaching or funding. To me the evidence is overwhelming that there is some genetic predisposition to being a great athletes of a given variety that is stronger in some ethnic make ups than others.

anotherworldofpain wrote:

munkian wrote:Why for Wales ? - there's only 3 million of us

The Isle of Muck go to the top, everyone else shift down one spot I guess. But if you can suggest insight into Stephen Jones' reasoning and calculation maybe we can re-organise the table properly...

Yeah so everyone slides down, but you have to apply that per-capita cack to the other sides, and that would push Wales up the rankings above all of the other 6Ns teams (above England, and even higher than we are now above the rest!)

Countries who invest money into sporting codes as a general rule will compete for medals, those that don't may have the odd superstar that succeeds inspite of lack of funding, facilities or assistance.

Per capita is just another way of justifying results.

New Zealand being the best team for decades is also due to New Zealand being pants at nearly every other sport and focussing on rugby - which is something I admire !

Biltong wrote:Countries who invest money into sporting codes as a general rule will compete for medals, those that don't may have the odd superstar that succeeds inspite of lack of funding, facilities or assistance.

Per capita is just another way of justifying results.

Bingo

yappysnap wrote:

Biltong wrote:Countries who invest money into sporting codes as a general rule will compete for medals, those that don't may have the odd superstar that succeeds inspite of lack of funding, facilities or assistance.

Per capita is just another way of justifying results.

Bingo

But weren't they saying that team GB per capita have won more gold medals than anyone else this Olymics, and therefore are the best?

It means they spent more money, the best results sure, but the best to me is the country who wins the most gold

Should be simple maths. How many people in GB? How many rugby world cups? Sorry I mean gold medals?

So when did he change it? THis is a dire dire WUM mate.

ScarletSpiderman wrote:

yappysnap wrote:

Biltong wrote:Countries who invest money into sporting codes as a general rule will compete for medals, those that don't may have the odd superstar that succeeds inspite of lack of funding, facilities or assistance.

Per capita is just another way of justifying results.

Bingo

But weren't they saying that team GB per capita have won more gold medals than anyone else this Olymics, and therefore are the best?

No. You'll find it's Grenada, NZ, Jamaica, Slovenia, Denmark... GB 16th at London 2012.

All Time, it's Finland, Sweden, Hungary, Denmark, Norway.... GB 21st.

AWOP, you do give me a laugh

It is true, wales have a higher IRB rank per capita

If we do it per capita, wouldn't Samoa be the champs? small population yet capable of beating the Welsh

Linebreaker wrote:

ScarletSpiderman wrote:

yappysnap wrote:

Biltong wrote:Countries who invest money into sporting codes as a general rule will compete for medals, those that don't may have the odd superstar that succeeds inspite of lack of funding, facilities or assistance.

Per capita is just another way of justifying results.

Bingo

But weren't they saying that team GB per capita have won more gold medals than anyone else this Olymics, and therefore are the best?

No. You'll find it's Grenada, NZ, Jamaica, Slovenia, Denmark... GB 16th at London 2012.

All Time, it's Finland, Sweden, Hungary, Denmark, Norway.... GB 21st.

That can't be right, it was in the Sun. Surely you are not saying the Sun prints bad news

anotherworldofpain wrote:Yes, I don't buy the "per-capita" argument. NZ is a bit player in the Olympics because there is not funding or following of many olympic sports and athletes with ability tend to get channeled into rugby instead is my view. It probably make the achievement of the NZ athletes who do get world's best at the olympics a great achievement on that basis to be "black sheep" and follow their own goals with little help. I would expect NZ to do better at sailing and canoeing to be honest because a lot of people on the water there on the weekend. I think it more about priorities than population.

There is something about genetics that bely the argument that we are all equal that become apparent at the olympics and too in rugby as most sports. For some reason we are not allowed to say that Kenyans on the whole make better long distance runners and people from the carribean seem to be great sprinters and I'm not sure it's about socialisation or upbringing or coaching or funding. To me the evidence is overwhelming that there is some genetic predisposition to being a great athletes of a given variety that is stronger in some ethnic make ups than others.

A post by another world of pain that I actually agree with... incredible! I would agree that prioritising certain sports is what counts (assuming you have the facilities and funding to take advantage), for those without the funding stream to support the training facilities they are stuffed. Though I do think genetics are slightly less significant in something like rugby, where being the best athletically helps but skill and tactics are often a lot more important.

I wrote this as "Isle of Muck" not Wales, as Stephen Jones referenced it. Has someone hacked my posting? or was changed by a moderator for some reason? We should get to the bottom of this! I did not mean to have a go at Wales here...

anotherworldofpain wrote:I wrote this as "Isle of Muck" not Wales, as Stephen Jones referenced it. Has someone hacked my posting? or was changed by a moderator for some reason? We should get to the bottom of this! I did not mean to have a go at Wales here...

Perhaps a in the machine?

anotherworldofpain wrote:I wrote this as "Isle of Muck" not Wales, as Stephen Jones referenced it. Has someone hacked my posting? or was changed by a moderator for some reason? We should get to the bottom of this! I did not mean to have a go at Wales here...

Such a grey matter, these postings.

Yorkshiremen & women have won more Olympic medals than whole other countries in this Olympics.

They should declaring independence!

I'd like to make a complaint as the OP has been changed beyond recognition and my post does not reflect what I originally commented on. Seriously though, you can't just change an OP to something else. It knocks all of the comments out of sync/meaning. This thread now makes no sense (well, less sense). Moderators! Either stop people from doing it, or stop changing things yourself!

Griff, few threads make much sense atm. We are struggling in this close season for rugby stories. Ireland just won a boxing gold (well done Katie !) but Yorkshire county alone has won more golds than Ireland, Japan or Australia so far..

Griff wrote:

Doesn't excuse Stephen Jones from being an ar*e though! I feel sorry for Stephen Jones the player - one of the nicest guys around but shares a name with that idiot. I'm sure some people think they're the same person.

Guilty .. only when I first started watching rugby!

Now that this story has been aired down here in New Zealand, there is a lot of opinion that Welsh people who are frustrated with their rugby record against the All Blacks see this as an opportunity to be nothing but morons by putting S H I T on our Olympic team.

Which is a bit ridiculous coming from a country that doesnt even have an Olympic team.

Why are Welsh people such bad losers???....All the time???
I hope The All Blacks absolutely dick wales at the end of the year, by more than the 60 nil that they beat Ireland.

Is there a link to the story, Laurie? It all sounds rather nasty.

LB, nothing we're not used to from Jones. Although I'm beginning to think he's racist.

http://i.stuff.co.nz/sport/olympics/7437138/Stephen-Jones-is-an-Olympic-Kiwi-baiting-champ

Thanks for that EBOP. When did these gripes start?

It sounds - and looks from that photo - as though he is perpetually drunk but even that is no excuse. It's just plain nasty... it makes our little friendly Oz quips about NZ (generally) seem quite tame by comparison.

I 'like' the way he prematurely writes off your sailors without even knowing the current standings. I do hope the ABs do give him something more to write about at the end of the year!

Is that true about the Welsh triathlete finishing 10 hours after the others?

AWOP - what was the title change? "Isle of Muck" was it? I'll check with Mods and see what happened.

Edit: Fixed AWOP... is that how it was? Let us know if anything else needs to be done.

Any idea what happened Linebreaker? I think it's wrong for posts to get changing without notification and judging by Griff's response it makes other posters upset too so is not just AWOP get oversensitive again, like when munkian called me woppy and I took it wrong way!

LB, quite enjoyed that little duel we had going for those couple of days Was fun while it lasted, but alas, as expected you guys have pulled away.

Tell ya what, watched Pearson win her gold in the hurdles, what an incredible effort! Aus Zealand pick up a rare gold on the track

aucklandlaurie wrote:
Now that this story has been aired down here in New Zealand, there is a lot of opinion that Welsh people who are frustrated with their rugby record against the All Blacks see this as an opportunity to be nothing but morons by putting S H I T on our Olympic team.

Which is a bit ridiculous coming from a country that doesnt even have an Olympic team.

Why are Welsh people such bad losers???....All the time???
I hope The All Blacks absolutely dick wales at the end of the year, by more than the 60 nil that they beat Ireland.

wow. way to tar us all with the same brush. Not sure how you can say Wales doesn't have an olympic team when we have won three golds.

Also Stephen Jones does not speak for Wales. I'm pretty certain that most Welsh would distance themselves from comments like these as they are clearly moronic. Pretty much as moronic as your comments. Congratulations, you are New Zealands answer to Stephen Jones

anotherworldofpain wrote:Any idea what happened Linebreaker? I think it's wrong for posts to get changing without notification and judging by Griff's response it makes other posters upset too so is not just AWOP get oversensitive again, like when munkian called me woppy and I took it wrong way!

I'm not sure what happened there AWOP... it's all a bit confusing for me. Weird things do happen here, especially on the Rugby threads and I'm often left scratching my head too. Hopefully it's OK now.

Is 'woppy' a good or bad thing? Can't say I've heard that one before.

EBOP wrote:LB, quite enjoyed that little duel we had going for those couple of days Was fun while it lasted, but alas, as expected you guys have pulled away.

Tell ya what, watched Pearson win her gold in the hurdles, what an incredible effort! Aus Zealand pick up a rare gold on the track

I was pondering that idea the other day. In 1908 and 1912 we did send a combined Australia-NZ team to those Olympics.

'We' would be in 7th place above France and breathing down Germany's back on 9/15/15 - 39 medals. Dare To Dream!

(still behind GB including the Isle of Muck)

Linebreaker wrote:

anotherworldofpain wrote:Any idea what happened Linebreaker? I think it's wrong for posts to get changing without notification and judging by Griff's response it makes other posters upset too so is not just AWOP get oversensitive again, like when munkian called me woppy and I took it wrong way!

I'm not sure what happened there AWOP... it's all a bit confusing for me. Weird things do happen here, especially on the Rugby threads and I'm often left scratching my head too. Hopefully it's OK now.

Is 'woppy' a good or bad thing? Can't say I've heard that one before.

woppy is an insult in some parts of the world. But I realisate that Munkian didn't knowing this (or was it mystrioakey?) I get all the "M" ones mixed up.

Also Mowgli. Yeah, me too.

Does WOP mean something like 'west of port' or other reference to being on bad side of ship?

Yorkshire are the world champions in gold medals per capita.
Stephen Jones - eat your liver.

gregortree wrote:Yorkshire are the world champions in gold medals per capita.
Stephen Jones - eat your liver.

Aye, less 'Isle of Muck' and more 'Where There's Muck There's Brass (Gold)'.

If Stephen Jones can give himself the authority to abuse all New Zealanders inclusively, Then New Zealanders in turn have evry right to regard him as reflecting the atitude of all Welsh people towards New Zealanders.

I cant say Ive seen any great groundswell of Welsh people distancing them selves from Jones's hurtful comments either.

I have checked the olympic medal table, and there proudly stands New Zealand in 19th place (with two medals to be yet awarded) and I have been all the way down past 70 and I cant find Wales.

Wales hasnt beaten New Zealand in rugby for 60 years, and the poor sported spiteful atitude of the Welsh towards New Zealand, will do nothing but give New Zealand every motivation to beat them for another 60.

aucklandlaurie wrote: If Stephen Jones can give himself the authority to abuse all New Zealanders inclusively, Then New Zealanders in turn have evry right to regard him as reflecting the atitude of all Welsh people towards New Zealanders.

You have every right. If you want to go down Jones' childish route.

These are comments from ONE spiteful individual who is well known for doing it. I'm not sure why Welsh fans have to distance themselves from his comments. Most just shrug and say 'usual rubbish' before getting on with their lives.

I don't see how you see this as being in any way 'reflecting the attitude of all Welsh people towards New Zealanders".

Wales are part of the GB (and NI) team and therefore can be proud of the full number of medals won by the whole team.

Just ignore Stephen Jones. It makes life a lot easier

Aukland
I'm not Welsh and I'm not here to defend Jones. But sweeping generalisations of Jones' type are characteristic of a v unpleasant human trait which I will not name here. I am not inclined to bounce Jones' comments back 180 deg and make myself a mirror of his prejudices. He is not representative of all Welshmen, and it is best not to generalise and not to join hime in his gutter.

Are you guys kidding me??

So what your saying is that its quite OK for Jones to hartfully abuse New Zealanders, founded on his hatred of us because we beat his precious little Wales, but if anyone dares to treat Welsh people the same way then they are morons from the gutter.

It makes me so F....g angry.

aucklandlaurie wrote:
Are you guys kidding me??

So what your saying is that its quite OK for Jones to hartfully abuse New Zealanders, founded on his hatred of us because we beat his precious little Wales, but if anyone dares to treat Welsh people the same way then they are morons from the gutter.

It makes me so F....g angry.

In the (slightly changed) words of the mods on here "attack the individual, idiotic journalist rather than his nationality".

And, no, it's not ok what Jones writes but that's his opinion. He doesn't represent Wales, Britain or anywhere. He is just himself. A twonk.

The idea is not to stoop to his level and have a go at a whole nation. I don't see how that is difficult to understand even if his comments make you angry.

Jones doesn't like NZ for whatever reason, but why should that make you dislike the Welsh as a whole?

sugarNspikes wrote:

aucklandlaurie wrote:
Are you guys kidding me??

So what your saying is that its quite OK for Jones to hartfully abuse New Zealanders, founded on his hatred of us because we beat his precious little Wales, but if anyone dares to treat Welsh people the same way then they are morons from the gutter.

It makes me so F....g angry.

In the (slightly changed) words of the mods on here "attack the individual, idiotic journalist rather than his nationality".

And, no, it's not ok what Jones writes but that's his opinion. He doesn't represent Wales, Britain or anywhere. He is just himself. A twonk.

The idea is not to stoop to his level and have a go at a whole nation. I don't see how that is difficult to understand even if his comments make you angry.

Jones doesn't like NZ for whatever reason, but why should that make you dislike the Welsh as a whole?

Dammit Sugar, I think this is a special day the first tiem I have agreed with one of your post

ScarletSpiderman wrote:

sugarNspikes wrote:

aucklandlaurie wrote:
Are you guys kidding me??

So what your saying is that its quite OK for Jones to hartfully abuse New Zealanders, founded on his hatred of us because we beat his precious little Wales, but if anyone dares to treat Welsh people the same way then they are morons from the gutter.

It makes me so F....g angry.

In the (slightly changed) words of the mods on here "attack the individual, idiotic journalist rather than his nationality".

And, no, it's not ok what Jones writes but that's his opinion. He doesn't represent Wales, Britain or anywhere. He is just himself. A twonk.

The idea is not to stoop to his level and have a go at a whole nation. I don't see how that is difficult to understand even if his comments make you angry.

Jones doesn't like NZ for whatever reason, but why should that make you dislike the Welsh as a whole?

Dammit Sugar, I think this is a special day the first tiem I have agreed with one of your post

Savour it, spidey. We're currently in a Team GB amnesty period. Business as usual to be restored soon