Cut the nose to spite the face

First topic message reminder :

Did they just cut the nose to spite the face ?

Yes indeed ECB cut their nose to spite their face.

With 7000 runs, 88 tests @ 50+ average, a big 100 in his last overseas innings in Lanka to keep England hanging in as No. 1 and another big hundred in what was defnitely his LAST test to yet again keep them hanging by a flimsy thread as No.1....KP's status as their biggest superstar in the last 3 decades and a legend in English cricket is already confirmed.


The intent obviously was to "hit back and hurt back".......instead of finding ways to reconcile and move forward.
Unfortunately ECB's timing was as bad as their intent.
.
If it was repraminding and putting down a newbie with 20 odd tests and 1500 runs.....then ECB's intent to "hit back and hurt" may have worked.......but here they have probably added martyrdom to an exisiting superstardom.

KP could have finished with 9000 or even 10,000 runs in the next 3 years....even without those extra 2,000 runs runs..nothing changes in his standing as a cricketer...the loser is English cricket.

An extraordinary batsman, who served England well for long, a flawed genius who acknowledged his flawed emotionalism and one who took severeal steps towards reconcillation....the super star who was made a martyr today by the bureaucrats who did a classic " cut their nose to spite their own face"......is how history would sum it up when dust settles over this issue.

eirebilly wrote:

KP_fan wrote:

msp83 wrote:Would also depend on the direction the England side would take in the coming matches. Pietersen is available for selection in the South Africa ODIs, if England loses the next match, I think the public outcry would be significant enough to knock some sense into the thickheaded idiots sitting there at the ECB.

that's the bottomline......ECB might get away with their talibanized approach if England WIN.
Can they win??

if it wasn't for KP's big hundreds agains Lanka and in headingley...they would have lost those tests that they won and drew.

their next 5 test are against SA and Ind in India...and in between a T20 world cup in Lanka.

Common man's and mass media opinion swings wildy with results.
The only thinng that will kill the KP saga for good is if Eng win from here.

You have used this reference on a few occasions and to be honest with you i am getting very sick of reading it.

I don't blame you...it is a sickening term.
I am sickened to see things have to come to such a point in england's cricket

Biltong wrote:KP, I agree with Eirebilly, Talibanization has nothing to do with the ECB, I suggest you rephrase your comments as not be to so controversial. Steamrolling tactics or something to that extent might be more apt.

dear moderator...OK...I edited my OP

SA team management

Yes, text messages were sent but like we said before it was banter among team-mates, which is perfectly acceptable. The ECB has not made a formal approach to myself or any member of the team to see the text messages, as currently reported in the media.
"Allegations that Dale Steyn and AB de Villiers were the recipients of the texts are unfounded. Until such time that the allegations are met with the correct facts and evidence, we shall not comment.

Info Leaked to CI....by ECB ?...again

Confidential negotiations are still ongoing and Pietersen's representatives have not given up on him being considered for the squad if the situation is resolved.

Id take that with a pinch of salt, playing it down suits SA, keeps the saga going.

had KP played the texts may have been leaked on the eve of day 1

Comparisons with the Swann book thing are off:

- Swann WAS warned after writing his book, this is well known.
- Pietersen HAS been warned a few times already, this is NOT his first offence. There surely has to come a time when repeated warnings aren't enough.

GSC wrote:Id take that with a pinch of salt, playing it down suits SA, keeps the saga going.

had KP played the texts may have been leaked on the eve of day 1

the only thing that stands verifiably....that KP has been sacked for sms the contents of whihc are NOT KNOWN.....and that they were even sent to Steyn etal is alleged.

What happend to the civilized world rule of " a man is innocent unless proven guilty"...or mabe that applies to normal humans.
For KP.....he is guilty because a news-paper alleged him of something that ECB has not seen, SA have not confirmed nor KP has admitted.

Mockery of justice....height of biassed targetting

Mike Selig wrote:Comparisons with the Swann book thing are off:

- Swann WAS warned after writing his book, this is well known.
- Pietersen HAS been warned a few times already, this is NOT his first offence. There surely has to come a time when repeated warnings aren't enough.

I do not know that Swann is warned.......if in private ? then how is it known ? if in public (officially)....where?..please share ?

KP has been warned before.......if in private ? then how is it known ? if in public (officially)....where?..please share ?

First warnings happen in private. That doesn't make them unofficial.

The general sequence will go something like:
- reprimand (something like turning up late for training)
- official warning (private - repeated lateness or misuse of public forums)
- official warning with apology demanded (public - e.g. drink-driving, or behaving poorly in public)
- slap on the wrist sanction such as a fine
- suspension

Only the last 3 are public. Just because you don't hear about the first two doesn't mean they haven't happened.

Mike Selig wrote:First warnings happen in private. That doesn't make them unofficial.

The general sequence will go something like:
- reprimand (something like turning up late for training)
- official warning (private - repeated lateness or misuse of public forums)
- official warning with apology demanded (public - e.g. drink-driving, or behaving poorly in public)
- slap on the wrist sanction such as a fine
- suspension

Only the last 3 are public. Just because you don't hear about the first two doesn't mean they haven't happened.

That in bold is as distorted a piece of logic as I have ever read......
If it has happend i.e Swann warned...please share evidence.
thx

As to the innocent until proven guilty, SA have confirmed the texts were sent, and KP refused to elaborate to the ECB. Logically he has something to hide. This isnt a criminal court

GSC wrote:As to the innocent until proven guilty, SA have confirmed the texts were sent,

correct.....doesn't mean it is necessarily offensive

and KP refused to elaborate to the ECB.

Correct...he believes he lives in a free country and has rights of freedom and privacy

Logically he has something to hide.

Incorrect....this is where logic breaks down.....the onus is on the accuser to prove

This isnt a criminal court

correct...that is what I have been saying ....that they have not acted like a court in civilized world granting human principles of justice would act....
but rather like a draconian regime that cannot even be named that would behead on hearsay and suspicions.....

Finallly we concurr

KP_fan wrote:

Mike Selig wrote:First warnings happen in private. That doesn't make them unofficial.

The general sequence will go something like:
- reprimand (something like turning up late for training)
- official warning (private - repeated lateness or misuse of public forums)
- official warning with apology demanded (public - e.g. drink-driving, or behaving poorly in public)
- slap on the wrist sanction such as a fine
- suspension

Only the last 3 are public. Just because you don't hear about the first two doesn't mean they haven't happened.

That in bold is as distorted a piece of logic as I have ever read......
If it has happend i.e Swann warned...please share evidence.
thx

It is well known around England circles, I won't say anymore, that would be breaching confidence.

Except the ECB wanted to know the content, not accuse. If the content was non offensive KP would have no reason to hide it from the ECB.

Does anyone really know the officiall reason for KP's dropping?

Is it for not disclosing the content of said texts?

OR

Is it for not disclosing the content of said texts, going against orders (and contract) and publishing an interview on YouTube and a build up of miss-demenors over a given period?

Kp is every bit to blame in this whole saga as the ECB are.

GSC wrote:Except the ECB wanted to know the content, not accuse. If the content was non offensive KP would have no reason to hide it from the ECB.

you don't get it still...laws in the country do not give an employer the rights to force an employee to reveal contents of his private life ( including private conversations)....unless they can first prove that the employee did breach a professional law in his personal life.

Onus is on the employer to prove.

KP_fan wrote:

GSC wrote:Except the ECB wanted to know the content, not accuse. If the content was non offensive KP would have no reason to hide it from the ECB.

you don't get it still...laws in the country do not give an employer the rights to force an employee to reveal contents of his private life ( including private conversations)....unless they can first prove that the employee did breach a professional law in his personal life.

Onus is on the employer to prove.

Actually thats not entirely true. There is such a thing called screening of people to ensure that they adhere to any secrecy laws placed in by employee's.

May not be relevant in this case but there is a law for it.

And using common sense KP could've put this all to bed by revealing it.

while we're on the subject of law, KP's video was a violation of his contract

Mike Selig wrote:

KP_fan wrote:

Mike Selig wrote:First warnings happen in private. That doesn't make them unofficial.

The general sequence will go something like:
- reprimand (something like turning up late for training)
- official warning (private - repeated lateness or misuse of public forums)
- official warning with apology demanded (public - e.g. drink-driving, or behaving poorly in public)
- slap on the wrist sanction such as a fine
- suspension

Only the last 3 are public. Just because you don't hear about the first two doesn't mean they haven't happened.

That in bold is as distorted a piece of logic as I have ever read......
If it has happend i.e Swann warned...please share evidence.
thx

It is well known around England circles, I won't say anymore, that would be breaching confidence.

if it is not officially released in the public domain..it's neither legal, nor valid......and at best speculative hearsay..
Source: if you cannot name ......means "Leaks "

More Leaks

So there is a culture built iin English cricket on leaks whihc creates more mistrust.

So it won't be wrong to say.......they are reaping what they have sowed ?

as dust settles.....more and more are seeing and commenting on the victimization of KP..
Boy.....ECB might have put their hand in a beehive when we read the sort of things that are coming out.......

from CI



Piers Morgan, the former British tabloid editor turned chatshow host, has escalated the conflict between Kevin Pietersen and the England team and officials by alleging that two of his team-mates are linked to the parody Twitter account that Pietersen found so offensive.

The allegations involve two Nottinghamshire players - Stuart Broad, England's Twenty20 captain and Alex Hales, who took his place at the top of the order in England's T20 side after Pietersen's stand-off with the ECB had led to his enforced retirement from one-day cricket.

The dispute drags on while Pietersen and his advisers pursue negotiations with the ECB in what seems to be an increasingly forlorn hope that he will win a reprieve and be named in England's squad for World Twenty20 in Sri Lanka month when it is announced by Saturday's deadline.

Morgan, a close friend of Pietersen, took to Twitter, where the debate is raging, to accuse the ECB of "double standards" in lecturing the player about the overriding need for team unity while overlooking a lack of team unity elsewhere, in the shape of personal hostility towards Pietersen from some of his team-mates.

What was intended to support Pietersen's contention to ECB officials in ongoing private discussions that he is the victim, not the problem, in the England dressing room, could prove to be counterproductive as the ECB concludes that emotions are running too high to risk naming Pietersen in their World Twenty20 party

For the last time something can be official but not public. It will no doubt be recorded on some documents of ECB minutes somewhere. Put in a FOI request if you're that fussed.

KP_fan wrote:as dust settles.....more and more are seeing and commenting on the victimization of KP..
Boy.....ECB might have put their hand in a beehive when we read the sort of things that are coming out.......

from CI



Piers Morgan, the former British tabloid editor turned chatshow host, has escalated the conflict between Kevin Pietersen and the England team and officials by alleging that two of his team-mates are linked to the parody Twitter account that Pietersen found so offensive.

The allegations involve two Nottinghamshire players - Stuart Broad, England's Twenty20 captain and Alex Hales, who took his place at the top of the order in England's T20 side after Pietersen's stand-off with the ECB had led to his enforced retirement from one-day cricket.

The dispute drags on while Pietersen and his advisers pursue negotiations with the ECB in what seems to be an increasingly forlorn hope that he will win a reprieve and be named in England's squad for World Twenty20 in Sri Lanka month when it is announced by Saturday's deadline.

Morgan, a close friend of Pietersen, took to Twitter, where the debate is raging, to accuse the ECB of "double standards" in lecturing the player about the overriding need for team unity while overlooking a lack of team unity elsewhere, in the shape of personal hostility towards Pietersen from some of his team-mates.

What was intended to support Pietersen's contention to ECB officials in ongoing private discussions that he is the victim, not the problem, in the England dressing room, could prove to be counterproductive as the ECB concludes that emotions are running too high to risk naming Pietersen in their World Twenty20 party

The most important part of this message has been highlighted for your convenience

Of course a very close friend will stand up for his mate.

Mike Selig wrote:For the last time something can be official but not public. It will no doubt be recorded on some documents of ECB minutes somewhere. Put in a FOI request if you're that fussed.

Can't believe you don't get it......

if it is not public...then how do you know it is official ?
if you have heard it from an offical....then it is a leak.....and how do you know he leaked the true, fair and the enitre picture.


What you confirm......is that there is a culture of non-public domain info leaking out...
and that is dangerous for English cricket....and we can see the results of it

eirebilly wrote:

KP_fan wrote:as dust settles.....more and more are seeing and commenting on the victimization of KP..
Boy.....ECB might have put their hand in a beehive when we read the sort of things that are coming out.......

from CI



Piers Morgan, the former British tabloid editor turned chatshow host, has escalated the conflict between Kevin Pietersen and the England team and officials by alleging that two of his team-mates are linked to the parody Twitter account that Pietersen found so offensive.

The allegations involve two Nottinghamshire players - Stuart Broad, England's Twenty20 captain and Alex Hales, who took his place at the top of the order in England's T20 side after Pietersen's stand-off with the ECB had led to his enforced retirement from one-day cricket.

The dispute drags on while Pietersen and his advisers pursue negotiations with the ECB in what seems to be an increasingly forlorn hope that he will win a reprieve and be named in England's squad for World Twenty20 in Sri Lanka month when it is announced by Saturday's deadline.

Morgan, a close friend of Pietersen, took to Twitter, where the debate is raging, to accuse the ECB of "double standards" in lecturing the player about the overriding need for team unity while overlooking a lack of team unity elsewhere, in the shape of personal hostility towards Pietersen from some of his team-mates.

What was intended to support Pietersen's contention to ECB officials in ongoing private discussions that he is the victim, not the problem, in the England dressing room, could prove to be counterproductive as the ECB concludes that emotions are running too high to risk naming Pietersen in their World Twenty20 party

The most important part of this message has been highlighted for your convenience

Of course a very close friend will stand up for his mate.

should a close friend not stand up for his friend ?
however any one will make a case based on the logic he presents......Morgan's case has made it to the headlines of CI because of it's content and not because of his freindship

Pieterson is well within his rights not to show the texts. However if it was me, and I knew my texts contained nothing malicious, would it not be eadsier to show them to move past this

OK KP_fan.

KP is totally innocent of anything that has happened here, the ECB have gone on a witch hunt to simply get rid of one of Englands best batsmen for absolutely no reason whatsoever

Morgans case had made itbecause hes a big name.

His friendship makes anything he write more likely to be biased to KP.

Also Piers knows nothing more than the rest of us

ao now there are allegations that Stuart Braod was tweeting from that account.....

Stuart Broad should be dropped using the same rationale that was used to drop KP

the drama is getting interesting.......

well done ECB and Flower.. ...the timing and the nature of their actions has

managed to turn a small digression invloving KP before the final test.....into one that has engulfed the whole team........and with Olympics having ended probably the bigger chunk of sporting media and audiences also.

Great preparation in focussing on t3

GSC wrote:Morgans case had made itbecause hes a big name.

His friendship makes anything he write more likely to be biased to KP.

Also Piers knows nothing more than the rest of us

he is a journalist...he has made an allegation..that should be enough to drop Broad

afterall KP was dropped on the allegations of a journalist.....

let's see if ECB display consistency

the evidence against Broad's involvement is more compelling that the one against KP....

Morgan's accusation relies upon the fact that Hales was the first follower of the Pietersen parody account. Claims that Broad was involved seem to rest upon a tweet he sent on the same evening that the account was opened saying that he had lent Bailey a pair of socks, therefore putting him in the same place, .

KP_fan wrote:

afterall KP was dropped on the allegations of a journalist.....

No he wasn't.

Please stop talking rubbish, it's getting tirering.

KP_fan wrote:

GSC wrote:Morgans case had made itbecause hes a big name.

His friendship makes anything he write more likely to be biased to KP.

Also Piers knows nothing more than the rest of us

he is a journalist...he has made an allegation..that should be enough to drop Broad

afterall KP was dropped on the allegations of a journalist.....

let's see if ECB display consistency

Why do you keep on about the supposed texts. What about the direct breach of contract in regards to releasing a YouTube interview after being expressly warned not to?

Mike Selig wrote:

KP_fan wrote:

afterall KP was dropped on the allegations of a journalist.....

No he wasn't.

Please stop talking rubbish, it's getting tirering.

compelled by logic and evidence based discussions.......you have adopted the tone that ECB would under same compulsions

eirebilly wrote:

KP_fan wrote:

GSC wrote:Morgans case had made itbecause hes a big name.

His friendship makes anything he write more likely to be biased to KP.

Also Piers knows nothing more than the rest of us

he is a journalist...he has made an allegation..that should be enough to drop Broad

afterall KP was dropped on the allegations of a journalist.....

let's see if ECB display consistency

Why do you keep on about the supposed texts. What about the direct breach of contract in regards to releasing a YouTube interview after being expressly warned not to?

let ECB say so that You tube interview was the sole, only and sufficient reason for them to drop KP.
They ( ECB) by their own admission have linked it to sms

No, they have said that they provided him an extra 6 hours to respond to the text accusations, not that he was dropped because of supposed texts.

Do you know the official reason for him being dropped? I dont but i do know that a direct breach of contract is a droppable offense.

eirebilly wrote:No, they have said that they provided him an extra 6 hours to respond to the text accusations, not that he was dropped because of supposed texts.

Do you know the official reason for him being dropped? I dont but i do know that a direct breach of contract is a droppable offense.

you and I have access to the same statements from ECB...here posted below againt for your convenience...
from what I read on CI healined article ( KP dropped over text mesages)....
http://www.espncricinfo.com/england-v-south-africa-2012/content/current/story/577063.html

It was an allegation, according to England's managing director, Hugh Morris, that unless unproven undermined "a unity of purpose and trust." Pietersen made no reference to the text messages in his video apology.



how CI sees it...and how most of us see it

The ECB, in the person of England managing director Hugh Morris, refused to accept the apology because Pietersen had not explained "derogatory" text messages about members of the England dressing room that he had allegedly sent to South Africa players after the Headingley Test.

CI is just another media outlet making assumptions. I am yet to see an official ECB release containing the reason behind his dropping so cannot say what he has been dropped for.

What is intimated is that the supposed texts were an issue and that he was given extra time to explain himself but not that it was the sole reason.

eirebilly wrote:CI is just another media outlet making assumptions. I am yet to see an official ECB release containing the reason behind his dropping so cannot say what he has been dropped for.

What is intimated is that the supposed texts were an issue and that he was given extra time to explain himself but not that it was the sole reason.

CI is quoting Hugh Morris as is every one else...and the words of Morris are unambigously interpretted by all including CI...with you being one of the few exceptions

MORE
* BREAKING LEAKS*
FROM ECB:
The Draconian Regime wants him to say sorry in public.......
it is clearly a matter of ego...we will rub his nose in th ground more...

more confirmation of "cut the nose to spite the face if recent leaks are to be believed


http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/cricket/article-2187959/Kevin-Pietersen-say-sorry-World-Cup.html?ito=feeds-newsxml

Kevin Pietersen can save his international career by publicly apologising to his England team-mates following the texting controversy that cost him his place in the third Test against South Africa — but only if he does so before Saturday.


The revelation comes after a weekend of blood-letting, in which Pietersen failed to take the chance, offered by the ECB, to deny Sportsmail’s story about texts he sent to Dale Steyn and AB de Villiers.

The only route back for Kevin is reconciliation,’ said an ECB source. ‘He has to put his hands up and say, “Sorry guys, I sent the texts, but it was in the heat of the moment”. The sanctity of that dressing room is so strong that the apology would have to be made publicly.’

ECB delaied the declaration of the squad for 6 hours to facilitate Pietersen to make the contents of an SMS he send to a friend. He didn't oblige and was promptly dropped. The ECB itself thus linked his dropping to the text saga.
Would be interesting to see if there would be any clarifications from Stuart Broad. Will the ECB ask for one?

and look at the BS....

The sanctity of that dressing room is so strong that the apology would have to be made publicly.’

if he does apologise under pressure........they will use hsi apology as the evidence that they are lacking to justify his killing forever....

so he should refrain from apologising now.......

the pressure is building up on ECB from the media to produce evidence

Morgan was made to look a numpty by Tuffers on last nights Vaughan and Tuffers show.

And surely the fact that every ex-pro's articles that i have read, agreeing with the ECB, tells you something KP fan?

skyeman wrote:Morgan was made to look a numpty by Tuffers on last nights Vaughan and Tuffers show.

i didn't see and it doesn't matter

And surely the fact that every ex-pro's articles that i have read, agreeing with the ECB, tells you something KP fan?

we have to deal with following specific issues that ECB needs to come out clean:

1) Who has been held responsible,and what action take for the leaks of private discussions...and they are still coming out of ECB.

2) what has been done against those that victimized KP in the dressing room such as Swann whose comments against KP ( as well as Patel) are published.
Heck was Swann even asked to apologise in public

3) What will ECB do now that Broad has been allegedly involved in parody tweets.......following their own logic they should ask Broad to apologise in public.....at the failure of whihc they should drop Boad

On and on and on, whilst we are at it lets get KP to apologise to the fans of Natal, Nottingham, Hampshire, Surrey and of course England.

He and his advisers have at best been naive and at worse

Others have said it, to play for your country should be an honour and you should put that first.

Broad should at least be asked to clarify. Pietersen was punished on hearsay. The South African manager denied there was nothing more than banter there, and even the players reported to have got the text aren't quite currect.
The twitter fellow too has said that no England player is involved.
Situations are similar, but will the responses of the men of power be?

I am sure Broad is not hated by most of the team.

Many reasons for the ECB to drop KP.

skyeman wrote:On and on and on, whilst we are at it lets get KP to apologise to the fans of Natal, Nottingham, Hampshire, Surrey and of course England.

He and his advisers have at best been naive and at worse

Others have said it, to play for your country should be an honour and you should put that first.

those clubs...let them come and explain that they need an apology...and also for what ?

To play for country is an honor....but to accept being victimized by dressing room politics and not protest is cowardice

Im sure Broad will be asked to clarify. However he cnnot be held responsable for the actions of a friend.

It suits Sa to call it banter and keep the story going. A lot of banter is actually offensive

skyeman wrote:I am sure Broad is not hated by most of the team.

Many reasons for the ECB to drop KP.

Correct......many in the dressing room hate KP...I thouhgt it was Flower, Swann and Strauss...but am shocked to find little kid Broad is a part of the gang.

if a gang of 6 vitimizes and hates a person.....then the punishment should be meted to the one hated.

I see how Draconian regime has fan following also