Cut the nose to spite the face

First topic message reminder :

Did they just cut the nose to spite the face ?

Yes indeed ECB cut their nose to spite their face.

With 7000 runs, 88 tests @ 50+ average, a big 100 in his last overseas innings in Lanka to keep England hanging in as No. 1 and another big hundred in what was defnitely his LAST test to yet again keep them hanging by a flimsy thread as No.1....KP's status as their biggest superstar in the last 3 decades and a legend in English cricket is already confirmed.


The intent obviously was to "hit back and hurt back".......instead of finding ways to reconcile and move forward.
Unfortunately ECB's timing was as bad as their intent.
.
If it was repraminding and putting down a newbie with 20 odd tests and 1500 runs.....then ECB's intent to "hit back and hurt" may have worked.......but here they have probably added martyrdom to an exisiting superstardom.

KP could have finished with 9000 or even 10,000 runs in the next 3 years....even without those extra 2,000 runs runs..nothing changes in his standing as a cricketer...the loser is English cricket.

An extraordinary batsman, who served England well for long, a flawed genius who acknowledged his flawed emotionalism and one who took severeal steps towards reconcillation....the super star who was made a martyr today by the bureaucrats who did a classic " cut their nose to spite their own face"......is how history would sum it up when dust settles over this issue.

So you drop a player because others hate him? FFS this is international sport, not two children fighting in the playgroud. Sort the issues out and play the best team. Whats the point of team management after all?

skyeman wrote:On and on and on, whilst we are at it lets get KP to apologise to the fans of Natal, Nottingham, Hampshire, Surrey

let their boards explain what for

and of course England.[/quote]



He and his advisers have at best been naive and at worse

Others have said it, to play for your country should be an honour and you should put that first.[/quote]

KP_fan wrote:

skyeman wrote:On and on and on, whilst we are at it lets get KP to apologise to the fans of Natal, Nottingham, Hampshire, Surrey and of course England.

He and his advisers have at best been naive and at worse

Others have said it, to play for your country should be an honour and you should put that first.

those clubs...let them come and explain that they need an apology...and also for what ?

To play for country is an honor....but to accept being victimized by dressing room politics and not protest is cowardice

You need to read a bit more, many of the fans of those clubs were disgruntled with the way KP behaved and acted and the same with England fans.

Victimized, he likes to play the victim more like.

He has been a total tool in all of this.

I think there is far too much focus on the texts in question.

It seems to me the ECB has been building towards this for some time and this is just the last straw.

It is sadly emerging that Flower has created an unhealthy environment of Favouritism and Partisanism in the dressing room....
sad
very sad......

I think it is impossible for KP to return while Flower is there.......he will be treated with hostility again in the dressing room, by Flower's favourites

shankythebiggestengfan wrote:So you drop a player because others hate him? FFS this is international sport, not two children fighting in the playgroud. Sort the issues out and play the best team. Whats the point of team management after all?

No of course not.

You drop a player when he is detrimental to the TEAM.

Since we're asked for proof of everything, can I have proof that Broad sent these tweets and such a gang exists?

GSC wrote:Since we're asked for proof of everything, can I have proof that Broad sent these tweets and such a gang exists?

a journalist alleged
isn't that the ground on whihc ECB these days drops players

KP_fan wrote:

GSC wrote:Since we're asked for proof of everything, can I have proof that Broad sent these tweets and such a gang exists?

a journalist alleged
isn't that the ground on whihc ECB these days drops players

Plus everything KP has done and said in the last few months, if that is "loving to play for England" then well, just well.

Nope, those texts were sent and have been confirmed to. Kp never denied it either when asked,

Again, and this time dont dodge the question

@tickerscricket : "And that's stumps on day one of the third Test, with England 312/1 thanks largely to that stunning unbeaten 163 from Team Unity."

GSC wrote:Nope, those texts were sent and have been confirmed to. Kp never denied it either when asked,

Again, and this time dont dodge the question

you didn't get it yet ?
per the law of the free land that he lives in...neither KP nor any one in employment.....requires to confirm or deny or disclose contents of his personal life......unless it is proven by the employer that he breached professional laws in the personal time.

the underlined part is the onus on the employer to prove before KP or any employee is obligated to response

As much as i blame KP for most of this debacle, i want him back ASAP, so KP please get new advisers and get back in and thrill us all once again.

skyeman wrote:As much as i blame KP for most of this debacle, i want him back ASAP, so KP please get new advisers and get back in and thrill us all once again.

it is IMPOSSIBLE for KP to be back in that dressing room....
From what has emerged.......he is the victim...and if:

1) he apologises ECB might use that as a evidence that they are lacking and fire him for good
2) He apologises and returns.......the "gang" will consider that his weakness and will further harras / humiliate and victimize him.
3) He does not apologise and is recalled under pressure of media / call of justice.....the Gang will feel let down and try to hunt him down again.

KP can play again if and only if.....Swann, Flower and Strauss are ousted from that dressing room

Thats irrelevant, weve been asked for proof everytime we make a point, you need to back up your claims

GSC wrote:Thats irrelevant, weve been asked for proof everytime we make a point, you need to back up your claims

LOL...you didn't get it...you won't......no problems...thanks for your effort in the debate

KP_fan wrote:

GSC wrote:Nope, those texts were sent and have been confirmed to. Kp never denied it either when asked,

Again, and this time dont dodge the question

you didn't get it yet ?
per the law of the free land that he lives in...neither KP nor any one in employment.....requires to confirm or deny or disclose contents of his personal life......unless it is proven by the employer that he breached professional laws in the personal time.

the underlined part is the onus on the employer to prove before KP or any employee is obligated to response

That is not so. This isn't a legal situation. He was asked to either deny the texts occurred or apologise for them if they didn't. He did neither and thus hasn't been selected. His contract is still in place, he is still being paid, he just hasn't been chosen. Nothing wrong there whatsoever.

Anyone remember swammycricketananda from the old 606?

Suggestions from Swann and Bresnan that England might be a better team without KP are absolutely hilarious.

So, would they have been a better team without his 149 at Headingley? There aren't half some morons in that side.

Toadfish wrote:

KP_fan wrote:

GSC wrote:Nope, those texts were sent and have been confirmed to. Kp never denied it either when asked,

Again, and this time dont dodge the question

you didn't get it yet ?
per the law of the free land that he lives in...neither KP nor any one in employment.....requires to confirm or deny or disclose contents of his personal life......unless it is proven by the employer that he breached professional laws in the personal time.

the underlined part is the onus on the employer to prove before KP or any employee is obligated to response

That is not so. This isn't a legal situation. He was asked to either deny the texts occurred or apologise for them if they didn't. He did neither and thus hasn't been selected. His contract is still in place, he is still being paid, he just hasn't been chosen. Nothing wrong there whatsoever.

Anyone remember swammycricketananda from the old 606?

I do, an infamous character. Are you him?

Toadfish wrote:

KP_fan wrote:

GSC wrote:Nope, those texts were sent and have been confirmed to. Kp never denied it either when asked,

Again, and this time dont dodge the question

you didn't get it yet ?
per the law of the free land that he lives in...neither KP nor any one in employment.....requires to confirm or deny or disclose contents of his personal life......unless it is proven by the employer that he breached professional laws in the personal time.

the underlined part is the onus on the employer to prove before KP or any employee is obligated to response

That is not so. This isn't a legal situation. He was asked to either deny the texts occurred or apologise for them if they didn't. He did neither and thus hasn't been selected. His contract is still in place, he is still being paid, he just hasn't been chosen. Nothing wrong there whatsoever.

Anyone remember swammycricketananda from the old 606?

the underlined is the wrong part...he can be asked...but not obligated....
since he is not obligated.....that cannot be used as a reason to drop him...if laws of natural justice are followed.

Off course if Draconian Regime like the ones that may not be named are followed...then everything is OK....he should be thankful they did not decide to chop 3 fingers on his left hand as a punishement

KP_fan wrote:

Toadfish wrote:

KP_fan wrote:

GSC wrote:Nope, those texts were sent and have been confirmed to. Kp never denied it either when asked,

Again, and this time dont dodge the question

you didn't get it yet ?
per the law of the free land that he lives in...neither KP nor any one in employment.....requires to confirm or deny or disclose contents of his personal life......unless it is proven by the employer that he breached professional laws in the personal time.

the underlined part is the onus on the employer to prove before KP or any employee is obligated to response

That is not so. This isn't a legal situation. He was asked to either deny the texts occurred or apologise for them if they didn't. He did neither and thus hasn't been selected. His contract is still in place, he is still being paid, he just hasn't been chosen. Nothing wrong there whatsoever.

Anyone remember swammycricketananda from the old 606?

the underlined is the wrong part...he can be asked...but not obligated....
since he is not obligated.....that cannot be used as a reason to drop him...if laws of natural justice are followed.

Off course if Draconian Regime like the ones that may not be named are followed...then everything is OK....he should be thankful they did not decide to chop 3 fingers on his left hand as a punishement

The bit you are conveniently ignoring is that they are not obligated to select him. They can drop him for any reason they please. If they wanted to terminate his contract that would be a different thing but they haven't.

shankythebiggestengfan wrote:So you drop a player because others hate him? FFS this is international sport, not two children fighting in the playgroud. Sort the issues out and play the best team. Whats the point of team management after all?

Not because others hate him, but because he is taking up far, far too much of their time, to the point where it is stopping them from paying attention to the job in hand - winning the series. A bad dressing room won't create the best performances on the field, and that is what we really need.

From now on we need to stop talking about one man, and focus on how 11 can win the next Test Match. We became the number one side in the world partly because of a strong team ethic, and we can't let that be threatened by somebody who has already overstepped the mark long ago...

Toadfish wrote:

KP_fan wrote:

Toadfish wrote:

KP_fan wrote:

GSC wrote:Nope, those texts were sent and have been confirmed to. Kp never denied it either when asked,

Again, and this time dont dodge the question

you didn't get it yet ?
per the law of the free land that he lives in...neither KP nor any one in employment.....requires to confirm or deny or disclose contents of his personal life......unless it is proven by the employer that he breached professional laws in the personal time.

the underlined part is the onus on the employer to prove before KP or any employee is obligated to response

That is not so. This isn't a legal situation. He was asked to either deny the texts occurred or apologise for them if they didn't. He did neither and thus hasn't been selected. His contract is still in place, he is still being paid, he just hasn't been chosen. Nothing wrong there whatsoever.

Anyone remember swammycricketananda from the old 606?

the underlined is the wrong part...he can be asked...but not obligated....
since he is not obligated.....that cannot be used as a reason to drop him...if laws of natural justice are followed.

Off course if Draconian Regime like the ones that may not be named are followed...then everything is OK....he should be thankful they did not decide to chop 3 fingers on his left hand as a punishement

The bit you are conveniently ignoring is that they are not obligated to select him. They can drop him for any reason they please. If they wanted to terminate his contract that would be a different thing but they haven't.

I fully agree with the underlined part.
That is why they fit the criteria of "Draconian Regimes"

Fists of Fury wrote:Suggestions from Swann and Bresnan that England might be a better team without KP are absolutely hilarious.

So, would they have been a better team without his 149 at Headingley? There aren't half some morons in that side.

Better is frankly wrong, but we won't become a bad team because of the absence of one man.

Oh I know that, Shelsey. They are still a fine bunch of cricketers. We will just have our ace removed from the pack - the one capable of doing something seriously special - though it is of course never a given.

another balanced article appears in the media as dust settle and people can see more clearly throuhg the haze
the underlined part of the article...sounds a bit familiar..have recently read that somewhere else too

http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/cricket/kevin-pietersen-dropped-why-the-ecb-are-hurting-1260644

Why the ECB are hurting themselves by dropping Kevin Pietersen




Kevin Pietersen is something of a maverick in the England dressing room, but do his actions really warrant being dropped, asks Mike Walters
Harshly treated? By dropping Pietersen the ECB have deprived England of a matchwinner
Getty


Kevin Pietersen has not always helped himself on the way to being dropped by England for the first time in 92 Tests.

But seldom has he been treated with kid gloves by the blazers at Lord's where an iron fist was available - and now English cricket will suffer, starting with the loss of their No.1 spot in the Test rankings.

Leaving Pietersen out of the final Test against South Africa at Lord's is not just a masterclass in selectors cutting off their nose to spite their face. It is the latest example of tall poppy syndrome - trying to show a high-maintenance player who's the boss.

As luminaries including Shane Warne - never a conformist, even at the height of Australia's reign as cricket's superpower - have observed, England would be 2-0 down and knocked off their perch already if KP hadn't unfurled that swaggering 149 at Headingley.

Warne, incidentally, used to call Aussies coach John Buchanan 'Pluto' behind his back because some of his methods were so far-out. But Buchanan knew which side his bread was buttered, and the Baggy Greens remained near-invincible when the greatest bowler of all time was on parade.

Dropping Pietersen reminds me of the time David Gower was left out of the tour to India in 1993, when his laid-back style did not conform with skipper Graham Gooch's six-laps-before-breakfast approach. England lost the series 3-0 and Gower never played international cricket again.

Pietersen has been at loggerheads with Lord's since he was stripped of the England captaincy in January 2009 after he had the temerity to demand the removal of coach Peter Moores.

Although results under Moores had been patchy at best, and there was an undercurrent of unhappiness about his one-track solution to all conundrums - practice, practice, practice - the England and Wales Cricket Board did not approve of the tail trying to wag the dog.

They were having none of KP's upstart routine and the captain was axed. But just in case Pietersen was right about the coach, they sacked Moores, too.

Pietersen was an unhappy camper in the West Indies for the second half of that winter but kept his counsel. A sore achilles tendon did not help his cause, but his harshest critics thought it was just a drama queen seeking attention - until he ground to a halt after two Ashes Tests in 2009 and needed surgery.

It was a similar story when he came home from the 2011 World Cup early with a groin injury. Some of Pietersen's team-mates suspected he was swinging the lead; again, a hernia surgeon's scalpel soon disabused them of the theory that it was all a figment of his imagination.

(Pietersen, incidentally, did himself no favours when he was photographed in a Soho nightclub on his return home - but that did not change the nature of his injury).

Nobody complained about his attitude when he made a match-winning double hundred in Adelaide. Nobody was on his case when he scored another one against India at Lord's when the ball was hooping round corners for Zaheer Khan.

When bon viveur Graeme Swann made some unflattering remarks about Pietersen's suitability as captain in his book, The Brakes Are Off, KP didn't go squealing to Lord's or call in the lawyers. Swann was not censured and free speech held sway.
Yet when Pietersen made an indiscreet remark about former England opener Nick Knight on Twitter earlier this season, he was fined £3,000 - even though Sky Sports commentator Knight made no complaint.

And when Swann tweeted dangerously about being given out "bat before wicket" during a county championship appearance for Nottinghamshire, he was neither hit in the pocket nor slapped on the wrist.

Is that consistent, even-handed management?

Now England, fatigued by Pietersen's retirements from one form of the game or another followed by the obligatory U-turns, have called his bluff over the text messages he allegedly sent two South African players last week.

Coach Andy Flower and captain Andrew Strauss had already grown tired of KP trying to make a fortune by playing a full term in the Indian Premier League, and unwise correspondence with the enemy was probably the last straw.

But if there is a single employee who has never sent text messages or tweets moaning about his employers or work colleagues, let him come forward.

And with the IPL, ECB have been in no hurry to acknowledge that Pietersen is a unique case.

He is the only England player to whom the Indian franchises are prepared to pay a king's ransom, and he is the only England player affected by the clash between IPL dates and the northern hemisphere summer.

Aussies, South Africans and Kiwis can fill their boots, but not Pietersen. He must fall into line with Lord's or they will pick on the biggest boy in the playground again.

Pietersen does not have to like his England team-mates, or vice-versa, but to share a dressing room they need to respect each other's ability.

If England's selectors do not respect KP's ability to force a result in a Test match by scoring a brilliant century in rapid time, they are blind.

And if they choose not to pick him on the pretext of dressing room unity above all else, good luck to them. Just remember what happened in 1993.

Shelsey93 wrote:

Fists of Fury wrote:Suggestions from Swann and Bresnan that England might be a better team without KP are absolutely hilarious.

So, would they have been a better team without his 149 at Headingley? There aren't half some morons in that side.

Better is frankly wrong, but we won't become a bad team because of the absence of one man.

Not bad. But I reckon without KP, SA are a few notches above us.

Nasser Hussain:

Genius is very often flawed. But I am afraid that Kevin Pietersen has run out of chances and the ECB are absolutely right to drop him now.

But I am afraid enough is enough. Over the last week, Kevin has acted like a child who does not know what he wants and, as any teacher will tell you, you only need one unruly kid in the class and the whole structure of the classroom can come crashing down.

I know for a fact there are players within this England side who cannot stand Kevin Pietersen, but that antipathy has not stopped them becoming the best Test team in the world. The question now is whether or not it has reached the point where it is genuinely having an adverse affect on the team.

There is only so much mental energy that Flower can have, and if he is expounding far too much of it on Pietersen, then that cannot be healthy for him or England.


Derek Pringle:

t was his demand for conditions, specifically that he be given time off England duties to play a full Indian Premier League, that started this farcical situation.

The frustration for England’s management is that Pietersen, although occasionally prone to saying the wrong thing, never used to be that difficult to manage.

Those who have played with him for a few years reckon he returned a changed man after this year’s IPL, his reputation, celebrity and wealth enhanced and his head turned by all three. Although not funny, one of the more laughable claims he has made in all of this is that money is not that important to him.

What will have particularly grated, especially with is employers, is that while Team GB have been showing the fruits of teamwork and unity with a spectacular Olympics, cricket, previously such a paragon and the envy of most UK sports bodies, has been shown up as shabby and self-obsessed.

As such, the powers that be had to move decisively, if only to give the other England players time to put this unsavoury event behind them before one of the biggest matches of their careers.

They just had enough.

If England lose the next Test it won't be just because KP wasn't playing, nor would it have been just because of KP if he played and we won.

The reference to Gower in 1993 is an odd one. For a start Gower wasn't giving England the runaround as KP has - he was merely disapproving of the system which is very different to actively disrupting England.

Lets not forget that KP has this summer made the management fine him for comments about Nick Knight (a little harsh in my view), plan for life without him in one-day cricket, deal with strange remarks in press conferences, consider his demands to play a full season of IPL and then consider how to get him back in the one-day team. All that while, according to one journalist, not talking to his team-mates for months, and then moaning to the opposition about the coach and captain, and, according to one report, actively encouraging SA to get Strauss out. Its all too much.

That's the last I'm going to say on this matter. I want to focus on the next Test, and how we're going to secure a win. It can be done, and can be done without KP.

Shelsey93 wrote:If England lose the next Test it won't be just because KP wasn't playing, nor would it have been just because of KP if he played and we won.

The reference to Gower in 1993 is an odd one. For a start Gower wasn't giving England the runaround as KP has - he was merely disapproving of the system which is very different to actively disrupting England.

Lets not forget that KP has this summer made the management fine him for comments about Nick Knight (a little harsh in my view), plan for life without him in one-day cricket, deal with strange remarks in press conferences, consider his demands to play a full season of IPL and then consider how to get him back in the one-day team. All that while, according to one journalist, not talking to his team-mates for months, and then moaning to the opposition about the coach and captain, and, according to one report, actively encouraging SA to get Strauss out. Its all too much.

That's the last I'm going to say on this matter. I want to focus on the next Test, and how we're going to secure a win. It can be done, and can be done without KP.

Biltong wrote:

Shelsey93 wrote:If England lose the next Test it won't be just because KP wasn't playing, nor would it have been just because of KP if he played and we won.

The reference to Gower in 1993 is an odd one. For a start Gower wasn't giving England the runaround as KP has - he was merely disapproving of the system which is very different to actively disrupting England.

Lets not forget that KP has this summer made the management fine him for comments about Nick Knight (a little harsh in my view), plan for life without him in one-day cricket, deal with strange remarks in press conferences, consider his demands to play a full season of IPL and then consider how to get him back in the one-day team. All that while, according to one journalist, not talking to his team-mates for months, and then moaning to the opposition about the coach and captain, and, according to one report, actively encouraging SA to get Strauss out. Its all too much.

That's the last I'm going to say on this matter. I want to focus on the next Test, and how we're going to secure a win. It can be done, and can be done without KP.

too, roll on Thursday.

would you care posting the dates when those guys wrote these articles.
In the light of new facts availbale with every passing hour...many are switching their allegiance from Draconian regime mentality to more just ways

skyeman wrote:Nasser Hussain:

Genius is very often flawed. But I am afraid that Kevin Pietersen has run out of chances and the ECB are absolutely right to drop him now.

But I am afraid enough is enough. Over the last week, Kevin has acted like a child who does not know what he wants and, as any teacher will tell you, you only need one unruly kid in the class and the whole structure of the classroom can come crashing down.

I know for a fact there are players within this England side who cannot stand Kevin Pietersen, but that antipathy has not stopped them becoming the best Test team in the world. The question now is whether or not it has reached the point where it is genuinely having an adverse affect on the team.

There is only so much mental energy that Flower can have, and if he is expounding far too much of it on Pietersen, then that cannot be healthy for him or England.


Derek Pringle:

t was his demand for conditions, specifically that he be given time off England duties to play a full Indian Premier League, that started this farcical situation.

The frustration for England’s management is that Pietersen, although occasionally prone to saying the wrong thing, never used to be that difficult to manage.

Those who have played with him for a few years reckon he returned a changed man after this year’s IPL, his reputation, celebrity and wealth enhanced and his head turned by all three. Although not funny, one of the more laughable claims he has made in all of this is that money is not that important to him.

What will have particularly grated, especially with is employers, is that while Team GB have been showing the fruits of teamwork and unity with a spectacular Olympics, cricket, previously such a paragon and the envy of most UK sports bodies, has been shown up as shabby and self-obsessed.

As such, the powers that be had to move decisively, if only to give the other England players time to put this unsavoury event behind them before one of the biggest matches of their careers.

They just had enough.

Shelsey93 wrote: If England lose the next Test it won't be just because KP wasn't playing, nor would it have been just because of KP if he played and we won.

It can be done, and can be done without KP.

who are you kidding ?

when playing decent opponents in their last two outings when they were not beaten( lanka and headingley)...it was on the back of KP's big hundreds.

Closing the eyes doesn't make you invisible to the world....but only blind

Plus the "Pietersengate" that the ECB has created exhibiting Tall Poppy Syndrome as Mike walters puts it....... is snowballing.........into something they can not control...engulfing players and the team....

media pressure is building up......and heck to make matterd worse they set a deadline for KP to apologise that conicnides with D3 of the crucial test.

KP_fan wrote:would you care posting the dates when those guys wrote these articles.
In the light of new facts availbale with every passing hour...many are switching their allegiance from Draconian regime mentality to more just ways

skyeman wrote:Nasser Hussain:

Genius is very often flawed. But I am afraid that Kevin Pietersen has run out of chances and the ECB are absolutely right to drop him now.

But I am afraid enough is enough. Over the last week, Kevin has acted like a child who does not know what he wants and, as any teacher will tell you, you only need one unruly kid in the class and the whole structure of the classroom can come crashing down.

I know for a fact there are players within this England side who cannot stand Kevin Pietersen, but that antipathy has not stopped them becoming the best Test team in the world. The question now is whether or not it has reached the point where it is genuinely having an adverse affect on the team.

There is only so much mental energy that Flower can have, and if he is expounding far too much of it on Pietersen, then that cannot be healthy for him or England.


Derek Pringle:

t was his demand for conditions, specifically that he be given time off England duties to play a full Indian Premier League, that started this farcical situation.

The frustration for England’s management is that Pietersen, although occasionally prone to saying the wrong thing, never used to be that difficult to manage.

Those who have played with him for a few years reckon he returned a changed man after this year’s IPL, his reputation, celebrity and wealth enhanced and his head turned by all three. Although not funny, one of the more laughable claims he has made in all of this is that money is not that important to him.

What will have particularly grated, especially with is employers, is that while Team GB have been showing the fruits of teamwork and unity with a spectacular Olympics, cricket, previously such a paragon and the envy of most UK sports bodies, has been shown up as shabby and self-obsessed.

As such, the powers that be had to move decisively, if only to give the other England players time to put this unsavoury event behind them before one of the biggest matches of their careers.

They just had enough.

Do the articles not tell you anything?

Obviously after he was dropped.

KP_fan wrote:

Shelsey93 wrote: If England lose the next Test it won't be just because KP wasn't playing, nor would it have been just because of KP if he played and we won.

It can be done, and can be done without KP.

who are you kidding ?

when playing decent opponents in their last two outings when they were not beaten( lanka and headingley)...it was on the back of KP's big hundreds.

Closing the eyes doesn't make you invisible to the world....but only blind

Did England win in the first two with KP in?

Hussain has it spot on as always, and he merely reports what I've been saying and everyone who knows anything about anything to do with the England side knows.

Yes, Pietersen is one of England's best XI players, and yes, England will be a better TEAM without him come Thursday (win, lose or draw).

People are way underestimating team ethic. There comes a time where a player's detrimental effect on that outshadows whatever positive contributions he makes on the field.

Mike Selig wrote:Hussain has it spot on as always, and he merely reports what I've been saying and everyone who knows anything about anything to do with the England side knows.

Yes, Pietersen is one of England's best XI players, and yes, England will be a better TEAM without him come Thursday (win, lose or draw).

People are way underestimating team ethic. There comes a time where a player's detrimental effect on that outshadows whatever positive contributions he makes on the field.

Some just can not understand that.

Being a better 'team' does not necessarily give you the best chance of winning matches, though.

Cricket, as much as it is a team sport, is every bit as much about the individuals.

It's a tough one as to what matters more, thinking about it.

Fists of Fury wrote:Being a better 'team' does not necessarily give you the best chance of winning matches, though.

True in the short term, long term I think you're better off as a team.

I do think this will have a galvanising effect though. Whether that's enough to win the final test I don't know, but I'm certain England's attitude in the field will be the best we've seen all summer.

Fists of Fury wrote:Being a better 'team' does not necessarily give you the best chance of winning matches, though.

Cricket, as much as it is a team sport, is every bit as much about the individuals.

It's a tough one as to what matters more, thinking about it.

Chelsea under a new manager, because they would'nt give their all because of ONE man. New manager = European champions.

skyeman wrote:

KP_fan wrote:would you care posting the dates when those guys wrote these articles.
In the light of new facts availbale with every passing hour...many are switching their allegiance from Draconian regime mentality to more just ways

skyeman wrote:Nasser Hussain:

Genius is very often flawed. But I am afraid that Kevin Pietersen has run out of chances and the ECB are absolutely right to drop him now.

But I am afraid enough is enough. Over the last week, Kevin has acted like a child who does not know what he wants and, as any teacher will tell you, you only need one unruly kid in the class and the whole structure of the classroom can come crashing down.

I know for a fact there are players within this England side who cannot stand Kevin Pietersen, but that antipathy has not stopped them becoming the best Test team in the world. The question now is whether or not it has reached the point where it is genuinely having an adverse affect on the team.

There is only so much mental energy that Flower can have, and if he is expounding far too much of it on Pietersen, then that cannot be healthy for him or England.


Derek Pringle:

t was his demand for conditions, specifically that he be given time off England duties to play a full Indian Premier League, that started this farcical situation.

The frustration for England’s management is that Pietersen, although occasionally prone to saying the wrong thing, never used to be that difficult to manage.

Those who have played with him for a few years reckon he returned a changed man after this year’s IPL, his reputation, celebrity and wealth enhanced and his head turned by all three. Although not funny, one of the more laughable claims he has made in all of this is that money is not that important to him.

What will have particularly grated, especially with is employers, is that while Team GB have been showing the fruits of teamwork and unity with a spectacular Olympics, cricket, previously such a paragon and the envy of most UK sports bodies, has been shown up as shabby and self-obsessed.

As such, the powers that be had to move decisively, if only to give the other England players time to put this unsavoury event behind them before one of the biggest matches of their careers.

They just had enough.

Do the articles not tell you anything?

Obviously after he was dropped.

LOL..you are stating the obvious...but clverly going arpound the uncomfortable.

we will see if he sees the same in the light of more and more evidences of KP targetting....too much water has flown under the bridge in the last 24 hours

Are you KP's dad KP fan

It's not as though Pietersen is a young player. Sure he has a few years left but will more than likely retire soon(ish) to play IPL etc, so get rid and build again.

Seems to me that Pietersen fans are sticking up for him but people like myself who can normally take or leave him, have had enough.

skyeman wrote:Are you KP's dad KP fan

maybe I am a PR guy appointed by KP

Stella wrote:It's not as though Pietersen is a young player. Sure he has a few years left but will more than likely retire soon(ish) to play IPL etc, so get rid and build again.

Seems to me that Pietersen fans are sticking up for him but people like myself who can normally take or leave him, have had enough.

I am a big KP fan, but he has acted so foolishly.

KP_fan wrote:

skyeman wrote:Are you KP's dad KP fan

maybe I am a PR guy appointed by KP

Then he should get a new one

skyeman wrote:

Stella wrote:It's not as though Pietersen is a young player. Sure he has a few years left but will more than likely retire soon(ish) to play IPL etc, so get rid and build again.

Seems to me that Pietersen fans are sticking up for him but people like myself who can normally take or leave him, have had enough.

I am a big KP fan, but he has acted so foolishly.

Well, another nail in Pietersen's coffin.

I like the player but as I've said the other day, he's booring the pants off me with his petulance. He's had problems with counties, Moores, Flower and Strauss. Any pattern here?

skyeman wrote:

KP_fan wrote:

skyeman wrote:Are you KP's dad KP fan

maybe I am a PR guy appointed by KP

Then he should get a new one

Yes Swann's papa applied for that job......he is thinking of hiring him....to learn how to sukkk upto Flower

Mike Selig wrote:Hussain has it spot on as always, and he merely reports what I've been saying and everyone who knows anything about anything to do with the England side knows.

Yes, Pietersen is one of England's best XI players, and yes, England will be a better TEAM without him come Thursday (win, lose or draw).

People are way underestimating team ethic. There comes a time where a player's detrimental effect on that outshadows whatever positive contributions he makes on the field.

What you're suggesting here (and Nasser when he reports what you say) is that the England players other than KP have not been trying their hardest because he's been in the team? Pretty pathetic if that were the case.