Cut the nose to spite the face

First topic message reminder :

Did they just cut the nose to spite the face ?

Yes indeed ECB cut their nose to spite their face.

With 7000 runs, 88 tests @ 50+ average, a big 100 in his last overseas innings in Lanka to keep England hanging in as No. 1 and another big hundred in what was defnitely his LAST test to yet again keep them hanging by a flimsy thread as No.1....KP's status as their biggest superstar in the last 3 decades and a legend in English cricket is already confirmed.


The intent obviously was to "hit back and hurt back".......instead of finding ways to reconcile and move forward.
Unfortunately ECB's timing was as bad as their intent.
.
If it was repraminding and putting down a newbie with 20 odd tests and 1500 runs.....then ECB's intent to "hit back and hurt" may have worked.......but here they have probably added martyrdom to an exisiting superstardom.

KP could have finished with 9000 or even 10,000 runs in the next 3 years....even without those extra 2,000 runs runs..nothing changes in his standing as a cricketer...the loser is English cricket.

An extraordinary batsman, who served England well for long, a flawed genius who acknowledged his flawed emotionalism and one who took severeal steps towards reconcillation....the super star who was made a martyr today by the bureaucrats who did a classic " cut their nose to spite their own face"......is how history would sum it up when dust settles over this issue.

It's not about trying hard it's about having a bent spoke in a wheel. Sooner or later it will snap.

Or he might be saying the rest of the teams 100% could be even better if they could CONCENTRATE on the cricket rather than this saga

In shocking news, KP wont play for Surrey in the CC tomorrow

I think the point is that the sideshow detracts from Englands focus

Mike Selig wrote:Hussain has it spot on as always, and he merely reports what I've been saying and everyone who knows anything about anything to do with the England side knows.

Yes, Pietersen is one of England's best XI players, and yes, England will be a better TEAM without him come Thursday (win, lose or draw).

People are way underestimating team ethic. There comes a time where a player's detrimental effect on that outshadows whatever positive contributions he makes on the field.

See this is where i think that KP is getting a hard time. He is the hardest trainer in the team (mentioned by all the players), when in a positive mood is and excellent team member and a great motivator.
Sure he is disruptive now and thats as much his fault as the ECB's but we should'nt think that this is a common occurance as in the past he has been an excellent team member and insiration to many a new player.

True eirebilly but he also needs to know that they are quite willing to get shot of him everytime he does.

KP_fan wrote:

skyeman wrote:

KP_fan wrote:

skyeman wrote:Are you KP's dad KP fan

maybe I am a PR guy appointed by KP

Then he should get a new one

Yes Swann's papa applied for that job......he is thinking of hiring him

Could'nt do any worse

eirebilly wrote:He is the hardest trainer in the team (mentioned by all the players),

Yes.

eirebilly wrote:when in a positive mood is and excellent team member.

No. As I said with my first post on the subject, KP is inherently selfish. This is no bad thing, but he isn't, and has never been a team player. Until recently this has been accepted, and the team has gotten along fine (or rather, the fact that some team-mates haven't gotten along hasn't had any detrimental effect on the team). It is, as I said, very easy to manage someone like KP when he is performing and the team is winning.

The latest blow-up I believe can be traced back to the ECB's response to KP's concerns over scheduling, or possibly further back when KP had a poor series in the UAE and England were beaten. That's when KP's behaviour became more problematic, to eventually become unmanageable, in a typical "spiralling out of control" way. It is possible that the ECB could/should have done things differently early on during the spiral to stop it reaching breaking point, but it is also possible that this wouldn't be in the long-term interests of the side anyway.

IN any case, the time for analysis isn't now. Now is the time for everyone involved with the ECB to get behind the team for the final test.

ShahenshahG wrote:True eirebilly but he also needs to know that they are quite willing to get shot of him everytime he does.

Or learn how to manage him better

Hibbz wrote:

Mike Selig wrote:Hussain has it spot on as always, and he merely reports what I've been saying and everyone who knows anything about anything to do with the England side knows.

Yes, Pietersen is one of England's best XI players, and yes, England will be a better TEAM without him come Thursday (win, lose or draw).

People are way underestimating team ethic. There comes a time where a player's detrimental effect on that outshadows whatever positive contributions he makes on the field.

What you're suggesting here (and Nasser when he reports what you say) is that the England players other than KP have not been trying their hardest because he's been in the team? Pretty pathetic if that were the case.

Not at all, all it say's is that KP as a negative effect on the rest.

eirebilly wrote:

ShahenshahG wrote:True eirebilly but he also needs to know that they are quite willing to get shot of him everytime he does.

Or learn how to manage him better

Na, hes a big boy now

Kevin Pietersen's absence means England 'could be even better' against South Africa, says Tim Bresnan

*Breaking*.....ECB has hjust released a license to Insult KP to all associated with English cricket...with guaranteed impunity.

Bressy, where i understand just exactly what he is trying to say and what he is trying to do, should keep it shut, just like KP should have done but only on a much, much, much smaller scale.

KP_fan wrote:Kevin Pietersen's absence means England 'could be even better' against South Africa, says Tim Bresnan

*Breaking*.....ECB has hjust released a license to Insult KP to all associated with English cricket...with guaranteed impunity.

Just a quick question, will you stop following cricket when/if KP stops?

Statement released by ECB_cricket on behalf of Stuart Broad denying he was involved at all in the Kevin Pietersen twitter parody.

Wll KP do the same regarding text's ummm.

skyeman wrote:Statement released by ECB_cricket on behalf of Stuart Broad denying he was involved at all in the Kevin Pietersen twitter parody.

Wll KP do the same regarding text's ummm.

Hmmmm........ECB are lying in "Broad" Daylight...

eirebilly wrote:

KP_fan wrote:Kevin Pietersen's absence means England 'could be even better' against South Africa, says Tim Bresnan

*Breaking*.....ECB has hjust released a license to Insult KP to all associated with English cricket...with guaranteed impunity.

Just a quick question, will you stop following cricket when/if KP stops?

yes

KP_fan wrote:

skyeman wrote:Statement released by ECB_cricket on behalf of Stuart Broad denying he was involved at all in the Kevin Pietersen twitter parody.

Wll KP do the same regarding text's ummm.

Hmmmm........ECB are lying in "Broad" Daylight...

How do you know that they are lying? Have you been in the meeting rooms? Have you been in the dressing rooms? Have you read the texts? Do you know who controlled the twitter account? Matter of fact is none of us know what is really happening and are all just speculating. But you my friend, are a little obsessed with KP

KP_fan wrote:

eirebilly wrote:

KP_fan wrote:Kevin Pietersen's absence means England 'could be even better' against South Africa, says Tim Bresnan

*Breaking*.....ECB has hjust released a license to Insult KP to all associated with English cricket...with guaranteed impunity.

Just a quick question, will you stop following cricket when/if KP stops?

yes

Even the DD in the IPL next year?

KP_fan wrote:

eirebilly wrote:

KP_fan wrote:Kevin Pietersen's absence means England 'could be even better' against South Africa, says Tim Bresnan

*Breaking*.....ECB has hjust released a license to Insult KP to all associated with English cricket...with guaranteed impunity.

Just a quick question, will you stop following cricket when/if KP stops?

yes

Ok, by all of your posts i figured you just liked personalities and not the game itself. Good luck with the next sport you choose and if you PM a Mod athey can change your username to match your next hero

Olly wrote:

KP_fan wrote:

skyeman wrote:Statement released by ECB_cricket on behalf of Stuart Broad denying he was involved at all in the Kevin Pietersen twitter parody.

Wll KP do the same regarding text's ummm.

Hmmmm........ECB are lying in "Broad" Daylight...

How do you know that they are lying? Have you been in the meeting rooms? Have you been in the dressing rooms? Have you read the texts? Do you know who controlled the twitter account? Matter of fact is none of us know what is really happening and are all just speculating. But you my friend, are a little obsessed with KP

I am going by ECB's current "market reputation"

eirebilly wrote:

KP_fan wrote:

eirebilly wrote:

KP_fan wrote:Kevin Pietersen's absence means England 'could be even better' against South Africa, says Tim Bresnan

*Breaking*.....ECB has hjust released a license to Insult KP to all associated with English cricket...with guaranteed impunity.

Just a quick question, will you stop following cricket when/if KP stops?

yes

Ok, by all of your posts i figured you just liked personalities and not the game itself. Good luck with the next sport you choose and if you PM a Mod athey can change your username to match your next hero

Rory fan.

skyeman wrote:

KP_fan wrote:

eirebilly wrote:

KP_fan wrote:Kevin Pietersen's absence means England 'could be even better' against South Africa, says Tim Bresnan

*Breaking*.....ECB has hjust released a license to Insult KP to all associated with English cricket...with guaranteed impunity.

Just a quick question, will you stop following cricket when/if KP stops?

yes

Even the DD in the IPL next year?

I have never been able to get a hang of IPL timings........
but they upload the innings on their website...so you can pick and watch pieces you like

skyeman wrote:

eirebilly wrote:

KP_fan wrote:

eirebilly wrote:

KP_fan wrote:Kevin Pietersen's absence means England 'could be even better' against South Africa, says Tim Bresnan

*Breaking*.....ECB has hjust released a license to Insult KP to all associated with English cricket...with guaranteed impunity.

Just a quick question, will you stop following cricket when/if KP stops?

yes

Ok, by all of your posts i figured you just liked personalities and not the game itself. Good luck with the next sport you choose and if you PM a Mod athey can change your username to match your next hero

Rory fan.

I dunno what's funny even if what you "figured" is correct

KP_fan

By admitting that you will stop following cricket when/if KP retires you have rendered all your cricketing points null and void as you simply support the personality and not the game. Thats whats funny

KP_fan wrote:

skyeman wrote:

KP_fan wrote:

eirebilly wrote:

KP_fan wrote:Kevin Pietersen's absence means England 'could be even better' against South Africa, says Tim Bresnan

*Breaking*.....ECB has hjust released a license to Insult KP to all associated with English cricket...with guaranteed impunity.

Just a quick question, will you stop following cricket when/if KP stops?

yes

Even the DD in the IPL next year?

I have never been able to get a hang of IPL timings........
but they upload the innings on their website...so you can pick and watch pieces you like

Every match on ITV 4, normally at 3pm and 8pm, enjoy KP next year.

I thought it was obvious the only time KP_fan watched cricket was everytime KP was at the crease?

Sorry KP fan, are we all doing the same to you as Flower and his team are doing to KP

skyeman wrote:

eirebilly wrote:

KP_fan wrote:

eirebilly wrote:

KP_fan wrote:Kevin Pietersen's absence means England 'could be even better' against South Africa, says Tim Bresnan

*Breaking*.....ECB has hjust released a license to Insult KP to all associated with English cricket...with guaranteed impunity.

Just a quick question, will you stop following cricket when/if KP stops?

yes

Ok, by all of your posts i figured you just liked personalities and not the game itself. Good luck with the next sport you choose and if you PM a Mod athey can change your username to match your next hero

Rory fan.

Sorry for laughing but that was sharp.

eirebilly wrote:KP_fan

By admitting that you will stop following cricket when/if KP retires you have rendered all your cricketing points null and void as you simply support the personality and not the game. Thats whats funny

OK...if that makes you feel a winner in imaginary something...

It seems you were extremely concerned with my comments. ..that was unintentional.
Please consider them null and void......and continue to be happy

, thats actually a good comeback

Ohh it's good to laugh.

Credit when its due i always say

eirebilly wrote:Credit when its due i always say

Well, credit to all, had a good laugh, even if some of the reasoning has been a little askew.

skyeman wrote:

eirebilly wrote:Credit when its due i always say

Well, credit to all, had a good laugh, even if some of the reasoning has been a little askew.

Got to love forums for this reason alone

skyeman wrote:

Hibbz wrote:

Mike Selig wrote:Hussain has it spot on as always, and he merely reports what I've been saying and everyone who knows anything about anything to do with the England side knows.

Yes, Pietersen is one of England's best XI players, and yes, England will be a better TEAM without him come Thursday (win, lose or draw).

People are way underestimating team ethic. There comes a time where a player's detrimental effect on that outshadows whatever positive contributions he makes on the field.

What you're suggesting here (and Nasser when he reports what you say) is that the England players other than KP have not been trying their hardest because he's been in the team? Pretty pathetic if that were the case.

Not at all, all it say's is that KP as a negative effect on the rest.

How? He's not playing against them is he? It's not like football (or a bike wheel) whereby one of your team mates performances can directly affect yours other than fielding and I'm pretty sure no one is accusing KP of deliberately dropping catches.

I don't get how they would play any worse just because they don't like him. Hell they all hate him and he seems to just get on with the business of scoring runs/taking wickets just fine.

As someone said earlier it isn't the school playground, they are all professional sportsmen and should be able to produce their best regardless of the make-up of the team. If they can't it says more about them than Big Bad Kev.

Because it gets to a stage when ONE thing is all that is being mentioned, and naturally that would have an negative effect on anybody.

All they see and read is KP, KP, KP, do you not think this will take away some of their focus.

And nobody likes to be slagged off (Strauss) by anyone let alone a team-mate, do you seriously think that this would not have a negative effect on him and the team.


Taking wickets, how many in 80 odd Tests

Its absolute nonsense to suggest that KP being in the side is making the England players play badly. KP has helped England draw the series in Sri Lanka with a fabulous ton, he has givn England the chance to hype up this blood 3rd test as the biggest match in recent times, to save the number 1 spot by playing one of his best test knocks till date. The only series he absolutely failed during the last 18 month was the Pakistan series in the UAE!. and we all know the results well and clear don't we?
Otherwise the point is that KP has been making significant contributions to England throughout the troubled times while his captain has struggled to buy a run. Has Strauss underperformed because Kevin Pietersen, a player who he and a few others hate is in the side? In that case who should be shown the door?
This argument of KP being in the side affecting the team is absolute trash, as KP himself has never deliberately played badly. If the arguments are to be taken seriously, then the England players should all be suspended ASAP, as this is nothing less than match fixing.

yeah they are all fragile....wool wrapped kids....that shatter when one BIG boy walks in the dressing room.........
and whoa look at that BIG boy...he scores and even takes wkts..inspite of the other 11 ( include Flower) hating him so badly......

skyeman wrote:Because it gets to a stage when ONE thing is all that is being mentioned, and naturally that would have an negative effect on anybody.

All they see and read is KP, KP, KP, do you not think this will take away some of their focus.

And nobody likes to be slagged off (Strauss) by anyone let alone a team-mate, do you seriously think that this would not have a negative effect on him and the team.


Taking wickets, how many in 80 odd Tests :laugh:

If this were the case then Strauss would never have been as successful as he has and imagine how much better KP could be if people weren't on his back all the time?

Besides which my guess is that the "slagging off" was at most to suggest he was a fool not to bat first and a fool to drop Swann. Hardly the most punishing of insults.

[quote="msp83"]Its absolute nonsense to suggest that KP being in the side is making the England players play badly. KP has helped England draw the series in Sri Lanka with a fabulous ton, he has givn England the chance to hype up this blood 3rd test as the biggest match in recent times, to save the number 1 spot by playing one of his best test knocks till date. The only series he absolutely failed during the last 18 month was the Pakistan series in the UAE!. and we all know the results well and clear don't we?
Otherwise the point is that KP has been making significant contributions to England throughout the troubled times while his captain has struggled to buy a run. Has Strauss underperformed because Kevin Pietersen, a player who he and a few others hate is in the side? In that case who should be shown the door?
This argument of KP being in the side affecting the team is absolute trash, as KP himself has never deliberately played badly. If the arguments are to be taken seriously, then the England players should all be suspended ASAP, as this is nothing less than match fixing. [/quote}


Normally you are quite astute msp.

I think every one is mainly saying that it has been effecting the team more since Headingley, even ENGLANDS players saying so.

Hibbz wrote:

skyeman wrote:Because it gets to a stage when ONE thing is all that is being mentioned, and naturally that would have an negative effect on anybody.

All they see and read is KP, KP, KP, do you not think this will take away some of their focus.

And nobody likes to be slagged off (Strauss) by anyone let alone a team-mate, do you seriously think that this would not have a negative effect on him and the team.


Taking wickets, how many in 80 odd Tests

If this were the case then Strauss would never have been as successful as he has and imagine how much better KP could be if people weren't on his back all the time?

Besides which my guess is that the "slagging off" was at most to suggest he was a fool not to bat first and a fool to drop Swann. Hardly the most punishing of insults.

Or as reported "get him out quick" any defence?

Sending Bresnan out for the press conference was a strange decision. Surely this presser had a need for a leader. Odd.

skyeman wrote:

Hibbz wrote:

skyeman wrote:Because it gets to a stage when ONE thing is all that is being mentioned, and naturally that would have an negative effect on anybody.

All they see and read is KP, KP, KP, do you not think this will take away some of their focus.

And nobody likes to be slagged off (Strauss) by anyone let alone a team-mate, do you seriously think that this would not have a negative effect on him and the team.


Taking wickets, how many in 80 odd Tests

If this were the case then Strauss would never have been as successful as he has and imagine how much better KP could be if people weren't on his back all the time?

Besides which my guess is that the "slagging off" was at most to suggest he was a fool not to bat first and a fool to drop Swann. Hardly the most punishing of insults.

Or as reported "get him out quick" any defence?

I'm not sure exactly what you mean but I'll guess you want me to defend Kevin if he said "get him out quick"? Wouldn't mind seeing where this was reported by the way.

Do you really think that KP texting someone to say to get Strauss out quick(sic) caused Strauss to "get out quick"?

I give Strauss more credit.

Morris added: "Having discussed this matter with Stuart, I am fully satisfied that he acted in a professional manner at all times and did not breach any confidences regarding fellow England players.

*Breaking* Morris accepts Broad's explanation.

But actually the real *Breaking news* part is that Morris allegedly issued the acceptance even before Stuart issued his explanation

Hibbz wrote:

skyeman wrote:

Hibbz wrote:

skyeman wrote:Because it gets to a stage when ONE thing is all that is being mentioned, and naturally that would have an negative effect on anybody.

All they see and read is KP, KP, KP, do you not think this will take away some of their focus.

And nobody likes to be slagged off (Strauss) by anyone let alone a team-mate, do you seriously think that this would not have a negative effect on him and the team.


Taking wickets, how many in 80 odd Tests

If this were the case then Strauss would never have been as successful as he has and imagine how much better KP could be if people weren't on his back all the time?

Besides which my guess is that the "slagging off" was at most to suggest he was a fool not to bat first and a fool to drop Swann. Hardly the most punishing of insults.

Or as reported "get him out quick" any defence?

I'm not sure exactly what you mean but I'll guess you want me to defend Kevin if he said "get him out quick"? Wouldn't mind seeing where this was reported by the way.

Do you really think that KP texting someone to say to get Strauss out quick(sic) caused Strauss to "get out quick"?

I give Strauss more credit.

Hibbz, i think the point being that if Strauss as captain, and losing the series at home and not scoring many runs might retire or be pushed. Leaving KP free of him.

Hence "get him out quick"

Which to me and obviously the ECB is very low.

Frankly if people don't understand that having someone like KP in a side can be problematic to team performance/morale then they have never been involved in team sport in any way. These are guys who spend half the year together, of course team spirit matters!

The question is whether you can manage someone so he doesn't have that detrimental effect. Sometimes there comes a time when it is impossible, or when the damage he is causing far outweighs what potential positives he brings by performing. Clearly Flower and co feel that they have reached this point with KP. We don't actually know all the details, so aren't qualified to comment, but I would suggest if what is being rumoured about the texts is true then they are right.

Skyeman, "Normally you are quite astute msp.

I think every one is mainly saying that it has been effecting the team more since Headingley, even ENGLANDS players saying so.[/quote".
I could say the same to you Skyeman.
If you read through the posts here, many of them give the impression that KP has been trouble for a long time,he demanded this, did that, texted some, said uncomfortable, his teammates hate him and another truck load of pure garbage. Well I am not saying that KP hasn't played a role in his downfall. But my point is that his dropping has been the result of misdeeds compiled over the last 8 years and that his gracious teammates and employers have had enough.
We all know that Graeme Swann got away with his comments on Pietersen and Patel in his published book, of course people who have access to the powers that be have indicated that he was warned in absolute privacy but we all know Pietersen was fined and a great public show was arranged by the team director on that when his twitter comments about a TV comentator sparked it all. We all know that when the captaincy debacle happened his conversations to the eCB were leaked creating an impossible situation for him. We know the leaks have continued throughout the current saga.
There are aligations against Broad and some others, nothing has been done.
Now Tim Bresnan, who is yet to make any useful contribution in the series so far is joining the verbal dyarrhea suggesting that England is a better side without the man who scored 149 runs and took 4 wickets in the last match. How many wickets has the idiot picked up in the series so far?

Okay Sky, that makes more sense and I agree it's low though probably a jokey knee-jerk to someone he sees (saw) as a pal.

I'm not necessarily defending KP as a person he certainly makes himself a soft target even if I like him, I was more disagreeing with your assertion that he was detrimental to the performances of the other players in the team and certainly the team as a whole.

No way in my opinion the team is better without him warts and all. (I've stated in another thread that I don't think less of Bresnan for saying it though).