Cut the nose to spite the face

First topic message reminder :

Did they just cut the nose to spite the face ?

Yes indeed ECB cut their nose to spite their face.

With 7000 runs, 88 tests @ 50+ average, a big 100 in his last overseas innings in Lanka to keep England hanging in as No. 1 and another big hundred in what was defnitely his LAST test to yet again keep them hanging by a flimsy thread as No.1....KP's status as their biggest superstar in the last 3 decades and a legend in English cricket is already confirmed.


The intent obviously was to "hit back and hurt back".......instead of finding ways to reconcile and move forward.
Unfortunately ECB's timing was as bad as their intent.
.
If it was repraminding and putting down a newbie with 20 odd tests and 1500 runs.....then ECB's intent to "hit back and hurt" may have worked.......but here they have probably added martyrdom to an exisiting superstardom.

KP could have finished with 9000 or even 10,000 runs in the next 3 years....even without those extra 2,000 runs runs..nothing changes in his standing as a cricketer...the loser is English cricket.

An extraordinary batsman, who served England well for long, a flawed genius who acknowledged his flawed emotionalism and one who took severeal steps towards reconcillation....the super star who was made a martyr today by the bureaucrats who did a classic " cut their nose to spite their own face"......is how history would sum it up when dust settles over this issue.

skyeman wrote:Positive signs?

Speaking as England captain Andrew Strauss announced his retirement from cricket, Morris said: "We will be seeking discussions [with Pietersen]

"They will be behind closed doors." ...from now onwards and not leaked anymore[ is what he meant]

edited to complete the implied meaning

Speaking as England captain Andrew Strauss announced his retirement from cricket, Morris said: "We will be seeking discussions [with Pietersen]

"They will be behind closed doors."

New England captain Alastair Cook says he plans to get involved in the discussions "in the coming weeks".

Chairman of the England and Wales Cricket Board Giles Clarke also reiterated the desire for talks to be kept private.

"Going forward it will be a matter for the national selector and he will do it with Alastair Cook," Clarke said. "Those talks are going to take place behind closed doors because there has been too much in the public domain. These matters need to be dealt with by the captain, head coach and national selector.

"They need dealing with so that we're clear and can move forward."

here is the full statement of the ECB statement and it's implications:

1) Acknowledgement that there will be no further leaks
2) The announcement from ECB comes immediately after...as if a major hurdle has been removed.
Only Strauss has been removed from the equation just before the annoucement came
3) The underlined part is important........ECB is disassociating it's own management with whatever will be the outcome.......so they are not seen as buckling down to KP.....if (read when) the selectors and captain decide to bring if back after some notional talking.

and KP will get some convenient rest slots from ODis and less important test matches....after those discussions are completed

Can we all agree as a board to stop acknowledging the troll account?

Can the account not just be removed? It's really beginning to disrupte this board and any good comments that are being made are being drowned out by this non-stop drivel.

I do agree on that point liverbnz. It never contributes anything

It contributes a different view to those that have bought into the ECB hype about the 'happy dressing room'. KP did not contribute to some woeful batting and fielding at Lords.

I agree KPF does go on a bit, but just ignore if you are fed up with them, rather than gang up and try and get him kicked off the forum. I'd go as far to say that those crying for 'his' head are acting in an almost KP like manner...

Free speech and all that.......

DouglasJardinesbox wrote:It contributes a different view to those that have bought into the ECB hype about the 'happy dressing room'. KP did not contribute to some woeful batting and fielding at Lords.

I agree KPF does go on a bit, but just ignore if you are fed up with them, rather than gang up and try and get him kicked off the forum. I'd go as far to say that those crying for 'his' head are acting in an almost KP like manner...

Free speech and all that.......

Douglas - with the right of free speech comes the obligation of sensible debate ....

guildfordbat wrote:

DouglasJardinesbox wrote:It contributes a different view to those that have bought into the ECB hype about the 'happy dressing room'. KP did not contribute to some woeful batting and fielding at Lords.

I agree KPF does go on a bit, but just ignore if you are fed up with them, rather than gang up and try and get him kicked off the forum. I'd go as far to say that those crying for 'his' head are acting in an almost KP like manner...

Free speech and all that.......

Douglas - with the right of free speech comes the obligation of sensible debate ....

Correct...and the definition of sensible being ??
What a dozen people in the forum have a popular and largely common opinion on....
And I have noticed that, that leads to an ad hominem syndrome here...attack the arguer, instead of the argument.

KP_fan wrote:

guildfordbat wrote:

DouglasJardinesbox wrote:It contributes a different view to those that have bought into the ECB hype about the 'happy dressing room'. KP did not contribute to some woeful batting and fielding at Lords.

I agree KPF does go on a bit, but just ignore if you are fed up with them, rather than gang up and try and get him kicked off the forum. I'd go as far to say that those crying for 'his' head are acting in an almost KP like manner...

Free speech and all that.......

Douglas - with the right of free speech comes the obligation of sensible debate ....

Correct...and the definition of sensible being ??
What a dozen people in the forum have a popular and largely common opinion on ?

Nope, you are just ranting and putting silly anti ECB points across and not being able to sensibly join in and listen to debate with an open mind.

skyeman wrote:

KP_fan wrote:

guildfordbat wrote:

DouglasJardinesbox wrote:It contributes a different view to those that have bought into the ECB hype about the 'happy dressing room'. KP did not contribute to some woeful batting and fielding at Lords.

I agree KPF does go on a bit, but just ignore if you are fed up with them, rather than gang up and try and get him kicked off the forum. I'd go as far to say that those crying for 'his' head are acting in an almost KP like manner...

Free speech and all that.......

Douglas - with the right of free speech comes the obligation of sensible debate ....

Correct...and the definition of sensible being ??
What a dozen people in the forum have a popular and largely common opinion on ?

Nope, you are just ranting and putting silly anti ECB points across and not being able to sensibly join in and listen to debate with an open mind.

If they were silly the easier option would be to logically refute them.
In the absence of logical ability to kill an argument...is when a human mind resorts to personal attacks.
However enuf said, its already a digression and mods are there to look into all such matters.
Regards

Plenty have refuted them using actual facts.

In any case its a wum account and as such will hold onto said wum persona. Useless trying skye

GSC wrote:Plenty have refuted them using actual facts.

In any case its a wum account and as such will hold onto said wum persona. Useless trying skye

Aye Pump

Come on leave him alone.. He is ok, just dont take anything as fact..

Tend to agree with DouglasJardinesbox here, KPF has contributed some very valid points during the debate on Pietersengate saga, and on some other topics as well. I at times did feel he has been provoking for the sake of it, but there are valid points there from time to time. I would suggest to KPF that may be he could also take it easy a bit, put forward your arguments/disagreements strongly but without being disagreeable. At the same time I have felt many on here are just trying to put his views every time without actually looking at the content.
KPF, are you a fan of Swamycricketananda? Or the Swamy himself?

Balderdash. Once a WUM, always a WUM. But a polite WUM

Anyone remember Wali B and Lethal_clarke? From the old 606? If you have to see a lethal wum those are the ones.

The problem remains, while there may be valid points, they're hidden within long winded paragraphs, and the majority of his points end up being based on some assertion that is plainly false but designed to get a rise.

Its pretty clearly a WUM account

Then ignore him like you keep saying you will. To keep saying you're going to and then not just makes you look like a drama queen.

I'd rather read his views than the continued bleating about them just because of he's written them.

Hibbz wrote:Then ignore him like you keep saying you will. To keep saying you're going to and then not just makes you look like a drama queen.

I'd rather read his views than the continued bleating about them just because of he's written them.

Very easy to say Hibbz. But if someone wrote absolute garbage in the national press. Would you not question it.

A Wum, and thats it.

Hibbz not sure I get your gramer there dude!

You must be worrying about my posts too much your forgetting about your own.

I agree with you though. Cant stand the constant whining!

skyeman wrote:

Hibbz wrote:Then ignore him like you keep saying you will. To keep saying you're going to and then not just makes you look like a drama queen.

I'd rather read his views than the continued bleating about them just because of he's written them.

Very easy to say Hibbz. But if someone wrote absolute garbage in the national press. Would you not question it.

A Wum, and thats it.

If I thought someone was writing "absolute garbage" I'd be pretty stupid to bother to read it.

He's only a "wum" if you allow yourself to get wound up.

I'm interested in his comments therefore he isn't a wum to me.

This is what a Wum does, now you too are whining

Skye, 'Absolute Garbage is' is far too much, because it simply isn't. Of course he has been a touch too irritating at times, but I don't think offering a different point of view to the majority, even though done in a rather disagreeable way at times would not make it garbage.

mystiroakey wrote:Hibbz not sure I get your gramer there dude!

You must be worrying about my posts too much your forgetting about your own.

I agree with you though. Cant stand the constant whining!

It makes perfect sense mate. The fact you can't understand it reflects more on you than the post old bean.

Oh and I just love your attempt at irony x.

A wum is surely someone who winds people up isn't he?

If no one gets wound up then there can be no wums.

If a tree falls in the woods.................

Please stop the bleating Hibbz. Now!! that is irony.

Well at least you got my irony.. However i couldnt work out this line!

"I'd rather read his views than the continued bleating about them just because of he's written them."

mystiroakey wrote:Well at least you got my irony.. However i couldnt work out this line!

"I'd rather read his views than the continued bleating about them just because of he's written them."

And you are doing exactly the same now. Kettle and pot.

mystiroakey wrote:Well at least you got my irony.. However i couldnt work out this line!

"I'd rather read his views than the continued bleating about them just because of he's written them."

True dat x. Sorry. Thing is if you can take the time to correct my errors does that mean I can expect a better standard from yourself in the future?

Ermmmmmm..

Dont pressurise me dude!

Hibbz wrote:

skyeman wrote:

Hibbz wrote:Then ignore him like you keep saying you will. To keep saying you're going to and then not just makes you look like a drama queen.

I'd rather read his views than the continued bleating about them just because of he's written them.

Very easy to say Hibbz. But if someone wrote absolute garbage in the national press. Would you not question it.

A Wum, and thats it.

If I thought someone was writing "absolute garbage" I'd be pretty stupid to bother to read it.

He's only a "wum" if you allow yourself to get wound up.

I'm interested in his comments therefore he isn't a wum to me.

'he isn't a wum to me'? Isn't that a Bee Gee's song?

Ha ha, still shouldn't be harsh on him (s)he's just a devil wummin'.

1) So ECB still don't get it.....
Now the want to announce the team for India in a Fortnight....why now when it can distract the players in T20 W'Cup
and Cook is being dragged into the Circus .....and the monkey is on his back now.

Logically ECB should have shielded Cook from this mess so that he could focus on the "Real Cricket" starting in India.
Commonsensically........they should have waited until the end of T20 cup

2) John Agnew says retirement was on Strauss mind...and the KP issue hastened it......the straw that broke the camel's back.

As a leader caring for the team...Strauss should have solved the issue so that the monkey wasn't thrown on young Cook's back...resigning and retiring after two weeks wouldn't have changed anything in the scheme of things.

3) And Flower ?....he talks to everyxone....and everyone says they are talking to him......how did he let this happen .......unless he steered this to happen



I've been on the outside for a lot of the saga," Cook admitted when asked for the first time as England's Test captain whether he could see a way back for Pietersen into the team. "Clearly I'll get involved over the coming weeks."

Hugh Morris, the managing director of the England and Wales Cricket Board, had already confirmed that both he and Andy Flower, the team director, will meet Pietersen to discuss his future – a meeting, or meetings, that Flower has said must take place within the next fortnight, with the squad for India, and the decisions over which players will be offered a central contract for 2012-13, to be announced before England's Twenty20 team leave for Sri Lanka on 13 September, without Pietersen, for their defence of the world title.

Then up at Derby, at a rainswept County Ground where he met the national selector Geoff Miller in his natural habitat on Tuesday, the ECB chairman, Giles Clarke, confirmed that Cook will be given a key role, if not necessarily the casting vote, in the discussions over whether Pietersen might be recalled for the four-Test tour of India in November and December. "These matters need dealing with so that we can move forward, and we're clear, and the new captain can plan properly," said Clarke. "They need to be dealt with by the team, the captain, the coach and the national selector as they determine.

"Dealing with team selection going forward will be a matter for the national selector, and naturally he will be consulting now with Alastair Cook about how he wants to shape his team. Alastair Cook is a younger man, he will be with us we hope for quite some period of time if all goes well – as I'm sure it will – and therefore his views I am sure will be respected by the national selector, who will be happy to consult with him on the selection for the India tour.

"Playing four Test matches in India is a highly challenging activity. We are all determined that we perform considerably better in India than we did on our last one-day international tour there and for that to happen clearly the captain must be equipped with the squad that he thinks contains the skills required to do well in India, in consultation with the head coach who obviously has enormous experience of India as well

from Guardian

Yep, I agree KP_fan it is a bit of a hornets nest that's been landed in Cook's lap.

Not sure who Agnew is to say the "saga" influenced Strauss' decision when the man himself said it didn't.

And on another note I've often heard KP be accused of not caring as much as others because he wasn't born in Enlgand never heard it said of Flower who actually scored runs against England.

Duty281 wrote:

Cook's first important act will be to get big bad Kev back into the team.

Hibbz wrote:Cook's first important act will be to get big bad Kev back into the team.

The guy who at Headingley walked off at tea with his Saffa mates leaving debutant Taylor to walk off on his own. The guy who minutes later walked into the dressing room and announced that debutant Taylor's 30 not out was the worst innings he has seen in test cricket? The guy who said in front of the England dressing room that Taylor was the worst England batsmen he had ever seen.

Good one.

taylors 30 was a great debutant innings. I very much doubt KP would have said what you say he said..

seanmichaels wrote:

Hibbz wrote:Cook's first important act will be to get big bad Kev back into the team.

The guy who at Headingley walked off at tea with his Saffa mates leaving debutant Taylor to walk off on his own. The guy who minutes later walked into the dressing room and announced that debutant Taylor's 30 not out was the worst innings he has seen in test cricket? The guy who said in front of the England dressing room that Taylor was the worst England batsmen he had ever seen.

Good one.

Hmmm...what is the source of these monumental wrong-doings of KP....leakages.
The anti KP publicity mill is achieving some of their objectives

KP_fan wrote:

seanmichaels wrote:

Hibbz wrote:Cook's first important act will be to get big bad Kev back into the team.

The guy who at Headingley walked off at tea with his Saffa mates leaving debutant Taylor to walk off on his own. The guy who minutes later walked into the dressing room and announced that debutant Taylor's 30 not out was the worst innings he has seen in test cricket? The guy who said in front of the England dressing room that Taylor was the worst England batsmen he had ever seen.

Good one.

Hmmm...what is the source of these monumental wrong-doings of KP....leakages.
The anti KP publicity mill is achieving some of their objectives

Geoff Boycott via Jack Bannister

IF that happened then he's a modded disgrace BUT that is a big IF.

Stella wrote:IF that happened then he's a modded disgrace BUT that is a big IF.

Google it, Pringle mentions it in his Telegraph column. I'd also heard the accusation a couple of days after Headingley from a reliable source.

seanmichaels wrote:

Stella wrote:IF that happened then he's a modded disgrace BUT that is a big IF.

Google it, Pringle mentions it in his Telegraph column. I'd also heard the accusation a couple of days after Headingley from a reliable source.

Was it said in jest? I cannot believe a senior player would say that. Like I said, if he did and it was a dig then my view on Pietersen is unfortunately right.

Kevin Pietersen’s conduct came under further scrutiny on Sunday when he was accused of making derogatory comments about James Taylor during the Headingley Test where his relationship with England reached breaking point.
As it emerged that Pietersen swapped angry words with a senior player, after criticising debutant Taylor and boasting of his own importance to England during his brilliant 149 in Leeds........

But the latest damaging revelations will only increase England’s hardline stance towards their errant star as they take the first step in what is likely to be a long road towards reconciliation.

Pietersen shared a 147-run stand with Taylor during the second Test, but angered England by walking off the field at tea on the third day talking to the South African players rather than encouraging his rookie partner.

Later that day, according to Sunday’s People newspaper, he launched into a tirade which precipitated the text scandal that now threatens his international future.

I'd ignore anything Pringle says. He has an anti-KP agenda. The man is a buffoon.

It amazes me how all this nonsense is so regularly churned out. If we believed everything we hear then Pietersen wouldn't have spent any time playing cricket, but all of it slagging people off.

Take it with an enormous heap of salt, particularly if Pringle is the source.

Fists of Fury wrote:It amazes me how all this nonsense is so regularly churned out. If we believed everything we hear then Pietersen wouldn't have spent any time playing cricket, but all of it slagging people off.

Take it with an enormous heap of salt, particularly if Pringle is the source.

That wasn't Pringle. Jack Bannister was discussing it on TalkSport this morning with a great deal of vigour. As I said, I'd also heard the same allegations just after the Headingly test which originated from the dressing room.

As for Pietersen, can you really defend the bloke? Everyone at Natal hates him (he used to use their nets in winter while at Notts and give it the Mr Big routine), everyone at Notts hates him and now everyone at Hampshire hates him. It seems he has 2 friends in cricket, Gough who is thick and Warne who is a plank.

Don't forget Piers Morgan

He can be defended to an extent, yes, after the shameful leaking of discussions between him and the ECB that, regardless of their content, should always have been confidential.

Either way, to me it isn't at all about friendship, arrogance or ego. That is inevitable within a number of top sportsmen. The fact is that he is our best performer, and whilst he may have overstepped the mark that is no reason not to welcome him back in to the fold should he apologise etc. England need KP, and even more so now that Strauss has stepped down, that is the upshot of it all.