Cut the nose to spite the face

First topic message reminder :

Did they just cut the nose to spite the face ?

Yes indeed ECB cut their nose to spite their face.

With 7000 runs, 88 tests @ 50+ average, a big 100 in his last overseas innings in Lanka to keep England hanging in as No. 1 and another big hundred in what was defnitely his LAST test to yet again keep them hanging by a flimsy thread as No.1....KP's status as their biggest superstar in the last 3 decades and a legend in English cricket is already confirmed.


The intent obviously was to "hit back and hurt back".......instead of finding ways to reconcile and move forward.
Unfortunately ECB's timing was as bad as their intent.
.
If it was repraminding and putting down a newbie with 20 odd tests and 1500 runs.....then ECB's intent to "hit back and hurt" may have worked.......but here they have probably added martyrdom to an exisiting superstardom.

KP could have finished with 9000 or even 10,000 runs in the next 3 years....even without those extra 2,000 runs runs..nothing changes in his standing as a cricketer...the loser is English cricket.

An extraordinary batsman, who served England well for long, a flawed genius who acknowledged his flawed emotionalism and one who took severeal steps towards reconcillation....the super star who was made a martyr today by the bureaucrats who did a classic " cut their nose to spite their own face"......is how history would sum it up when dust settles over this issue.

Wouldnt be suprised if england won, wouldnt be suprised if pakistain, aus, SA or india won.

Its a toss up from the above..

Pete C (Kiwireddevil) wrote:Personally I'd be disappointed if a sportsman DIDN'T back himself to win a tournament regardless.

That said, I wouldn't have England favourites to win even with KP.

Exactly, if you go into any tournement expecting to lose then you will never win anything and be called Irish because your fans are too drunk to realise you are getting roasted but bring great atmosphere

Right, KPF seems to have missed this, So here I am!. Seems to me a good bit of news.
http://www.espncricinfo.com/england/content/current/story/581213.html

KP_ fan,

Your boy bowled bl**dy well today. That's all.

guildfordbat wrote:KP_ fan,

Your boy bowled bl**dy well today. That's all.

39 runs from 30 overs, did they use the bat

skyeman wrote:

guildfordbat wrote:KP_ fan,

Your boy bowled bl**dy well today. That's all.

39 runs from 30 overs, did they use the bat

For those who can's sleep, there's a report praising Surrey's bowlers and slating Notts' approach on the ''Surrey v Notts match thread'' in the County Cricket section.

guildfordbat wrote:

skyeman wrote:

guildfordbat wrote:KP_ fan,

Your boy bowled bl**dy well today. That's all.

39 runs from 30 overs, did they use the bat

For those who can's sleep, there's a report praising Surrey's bowlers and slating Notts' approach on the ''Surrey v Notts match thread'' in the County Cricket section.

Cheers, i will have a peek.

Pietersen has made important contributions to Surrey this season, first with that 234, then last week's hundred and half century, and a couple of important wickets to help set up the most recent win. But the question is, without an ECB central contract, what would happen to his relationship with the county??

msp83 wrote:Pietersen has made important contributions to Surrey this season, first with that 234, then last week's hundred and half century, and a couple of important wickets to help set up the most recent win. But the question is, without an ECB central contract, what would happen to his relationship with the county??

Pietersen's current Surrey contract is dependent upon him having an ECB central contract; ie if the central contact ends, then so does the Surrey contract.

However ...

... even though Pietersen hasn't been awarded a central contract for next year (2012 - 13), I don't believe that his central contract for this year (2011 - 12) has come to an end yet. Thus, he should be able to play for Surrey next week without any problems.

Furthermore ...

... as Skyeman emphasises, Pietersen might still be awarded a central contract for next year. If so, his Surrey contract would continue.

If ...

... the cental contract for next year fails to materialis, Pietersen will become a free agent. He might then still sign to play for Surrey (almost certainly for a limited amount of dates and games). Factors coming into play here will include:

* The relationship between Surrey and Pietersen. Whilst almost everything Pietersen gets involved with ends in tears, Surrey and Pietersen currently seem to be getting on well and increasingly so. Clearly, his cricketing brilliance plays a very large part as regards the feelings of Surrey and their supporters. However, his attitude and approach are also currently earning him plaudits.

* The salary cap for players. Inevitably, Pietersen won't come cheap. Even if Surrey can meet his demands, it might take them over the cap [anyone see that Durham got fined and had points deducted for this today?] which might scupper plans. An added complication is that Tremlett has lost his central contract but remains with Surrey on a one year contract.

guildfordbat wrote:

msp83 wrote:Pietersen has made important contributions to Surrey this season, first with that 234, then last week's hundred and half century, and a couple of important wickets to help set up the most recent win. But the question is, without an ECB central contract, what would happen to his relationship with the county??

Pietersen's current Surrey contract is dependent upon him having an ECB central contract; ie if the central contact ends, then so does the Surrey contract.

However ...

... even though Pietersen hasn't been awarded a central contract for next year (2012 - 13), I don't believe that his central contract for this year (2011 - 12) has come to an end yet. Thus, he should be able to play for Surrey next week without any problems.

Furthermore ...

... as Skyeman emphasises, Pietersen might still be awarded a central contract for next year. If so, his Surrey contract would continue.

If ...

... the cental contract for next year fails to materialis, Pietersen will become a free agent. He might then still sign to play for Surrey (almost certainly for a limited amount of dates and games). Factors coming into play here will include:

* The relationship between Surrey and Pietersen. Whilst almost everything Pietersen gets involved with ends in tears, Surrey and Pietersen currently seem to be getting on well and increasingly so. Clearly, his cricketing brilliance plays a very large part as regards the feelings of Surrey and their supporters. However, his attitude and approach are also currently earning him plaudits.

* The salary cap for players. Inevitably, Pietersen won't come cheap. Even if Surrey can meet his demands, it might take them over the cap [anyone see that Durham got fined and had points deducted for this today?] which might scupper plans. An added complication is that Tremlett has lost his central contract but remains with Surrey on a one year contract.

Very detailed Gb Thank you.

So he is not awarded the ECB contract.
They have cut their nose to spite their face...

Indians must be smiling quitely and planning their Diwali celebration even bigger.

Thanks guildford for that detailed response.
How is the Tremlett situation shaping up? Does he have a serious chance of making it back to county cricket the next season?

msp83 wrote:Thanks guildford for that detailed response.
How is the Tremlett situation shaping up? Does he have a serious chance of making it back to county cricket the next season?

Msp - no problem.

It was a back injury that caused Tremlett to drop out of the England reckoning some months ago. That now seems to have cleared up but it apparently put pressure on other parts of his body which has resulted in other problems; in particular, a current knee injury. It is hoped that rest will cure his knee rather than an operation being needed.

Whilst I have considerable sympathy for Tremlett - he worked very hard to get in the Ashes squad and showed there what a good bowler he can be - I have serious doubts as to how complete any recovery ever will be. Unfortunately he has a history of various recurring injuries. I fear that's likely to continue and increase being the case rather than go away.

Along with several Surrey posters, I saw him in his only Championship match this season at Guildford. He looked far from fit to us all then and that was before his knee problem showed itself.

That said, he may get back to playing some cricket for Surrey next season (Surrey obviously think there's a chance, hence the one year contract) although I'm sure they'll be reluctant to overplay and overbowl him.

With at best a restricted role at Surrey and his medical history, I think it's exceptionally unlikely that he'll ever play Test cricket again. I'll be delighted to be wrong but that's my view.

Well in Tremlett's case, don't players who lose central contracts have to be paid the same amount as they received whilst centrally contracted the next year by their county? Or am I just making that up lol? Because I'm sure I read something along those lines when Panesar moved from Northants to Sussex and waived the last £10,000 that Northants owed him.

Agree with Guildford. It looks as though Tremlett will have had a fairly brief but honourable career second time round with England. With the considerable range of faster bowling options available to England it does seem very unlikely that he will force himself back into the running....

KP does the right thing finally.
Makes it known to the media that he also has some expectations that Flower and ECB resolve before he can come back.

That anderson and Swann are the suspects in the parody account...because his privAte conversations with them appear in that accpunt.

And that he exepcts a fair and equal review and treatment of the situation instead of being targetted.

CI is carrying these statements

The saga doesn't seem to be dying down, cricinfo reports that KP named Swann and Anderson as suspects in the Twitter issue. The report doesn't mention the source of the information, doesn't look like Pietersen gave an interview or something, but the news is up there. If Pietersen has hard evidence on those 2, ECB and Flower will have to do a lot of explaining and even lots of cleaning up.

The article is written by George Dobell, who is as anti-ECB as Pringle is anti-KP (and didn't even play test cricket poorly) so it is expected to have a pro-KP slant (as have all his previous articles). I haven't found the story anywhere else as yet (which doesn't mean it's not true).

It is very unlikely any proof of involvement by Swann and Anderson exists (if they were involved - which I don't believe - then details were probably passed on in conversations) but there could be a written trail.

On the face of it though it seems that KP has put his foot in it again, making demands when he should be making concessions, making them publicly and in the middle of private talks. The ECB won't want to be dictated to, so this is unlikely to help resolve anything. It is very likely to make things worse.

Someone needs to lend the guy a brain.

Mike Selig wrote:The article is written by George Dobell, who is as anti-ECB as Pringle is anti-KP (and didn't even play test cricket poorly) so it is expected to have a pro-KP slant (as have all his previous articles). I haven't found the story anywhere else as yet (which doesn't mean it's not true).

It is very unlikely any proof of involvement by Swann and Anderson exists (if they were involved - which I don't believe - then details were probably passed on in conversations) but there could be a written trail.

On the face of it though it seems that KP has put his foot in it again, making demands when he should be making concessions, making them publicly and in the middle of private talks. The ECB won't want to be dictated to, so this is unlikely to help resolve anything. It is very likely to make things worse.

Someone needs to lend the guy a brain.

I really don't see how you can come to this conclusion. Where has KP publicly made demands? It seems to me (yet again), private discussions have been leaked. And maybe it's KP leaking it, but there's absolutely no proof of it.

Don't think the article suggested KP making the demands in public. In all likelyhood, it would be another leak.

And now we have Anderson criticising the captaincy style of former skipper Michael Vaughan.

Not really relevant to the current team, but i wish they would leave the autobiographies until they retire.

skyeman wrote:And now we have Anderson criticising the captaincy style of former skipper Michael Vaughan.

Not really relevant to the current team, but i wish they would leave the autobiographies until they retire.

They wouldn't get as much money then though would they?

chrisss wrote:

skyeman wrote:And now we have Anderson criticising the captaincy style of former skipper Michael Vaughan.

Not really relevant to the current team, but i wish they would leave the autobiographies until they retire.

They wouldn't get as much money then though would they?

Exactly. The nut is not the only one.

What IS Anderson up to?

Skyeman, please provide some link for this Anderson bit, I can't find any report on cricinfo.

msp83 wrote:Skyeman, please provide some link for this Anderson bit, I can't find any report on cricinfo.

Hi msp, bbcsport.co.uk;

England bowler James Anderson has criticised the captaincy style of former skipper Michael Vaughan.

Vaughan, 37, who retired in 2009, was England captain between 2003 and 2008, including the 2005 Ashes win.

In an excerpt from his autobiography published in the Mail on Sunday, Anderson admits he was uncomfortable with Vaughan's leadership style.

"Unfortunately, despite our cordiality now, I didn't enjoy Vaughan as a captain," Anderson, 30, said.

"A good captain should know how to talk to his team as individuals. I don't think Vaughan ever had that in him - a major reason I've not held him in as high regard as others have.

"He was not as good a captain as others made out."

More backing of Strauss?

jeasus.. Is this all true??

Kp needs to come back. It looks like the lot of em are wrongons doesnt it!

"He was not as good a captain as others made out."

He's got to sell the book, but no need for that.

Not sure how Flower will react to this. He wanted calm at the moment.

Corporalhumblebucket wrote:What IS Anderson up to?

The book. Of course.....

Corporalhumblebucket wrote:

Corporalhumblebucket wrote:What IS Anderson up to?

The book. Of course.....

Definitely. Just bad timing. Kind of helps KP.

Thanks skye.
That was unnecessary to say the least from Anderson. They should hold off till they are done at international level before writing all these stuff. Otherwise, they should keep these cheapshots away for another day. Swann had things to say about Pietersen and Patel, and many here presume he was warned about it. Thankfully it doesn't look like Anderson has gone that far. Nevertheless something we could have done without.

msp83 wrote:Thanks skye.
That was unnecessary to say the least from Anderson. They should hold off till they are done at international level before writing all these stuff. Otherwise, they should keep these cheapshots away for another day. Swann had things to say about Pietersen and Patel, and many here presume he was warned about it. Thankfully it doesn't look like Anderson has gone that far. Nevertheless something we could have done without.

Frankly ridiculous if George Dobell (who, as Mike rightly says, is anti-ECB but is also a pretty good journalist and has helped me with promoting my blog on quite a few occasions through Twitter) is right and KP wants the ECB to investigate Swann and Anderson.

I think as far as the ECB are concerned the issue is closed now, and if only KP were to cut his losses and sign a contract he could return to the fray. That can't happen if KP is still worried about the Twitter account (which for me was a bit of a laugh in any case rather than a malicious attack on KP).

People on this thread seem obsessed by the idea of leaks. Well, journalism in all sectors relies on stories being broken, and the only way journos can get hold of the stories is if they are in some way 'leaked' or to put it another way uncovered. I doubt the ECB are 'leaking' anything - it is to their advantage that the story goes away rather than rumbles on.

First of all, Anderson is in the the wrong for releasing his book whilst he is still playing, which I disagree with anyway, and then surely he could have waited till after the KP saga had blown away a bit before releasing it? It is possibly the worst possible timing.

As for the criticism of Vaughan, and it appears Flintoff as well, I think if he is going to release a book then it is fair game. It is after all his personal opinion, and I would rather he speaks his mind that avoids the subject, and at least Vaughan and Flintoff are nothing to do with the current England side and I can't see it affecting the team in anyway. So the comments in themselves are not a problem, but the timing is.

I don't believe KP would be demanding the ECB investigate several people in the dressing room being behind the KP account (which is nothing on OfficialMoinA23 anyway) as he would know it is almost impossible to prove that they would be behind it. I think it would be sensible for Broad etc. to apologise for promoting it on Twitter however, and if that smooths things over quicker then just man up and do it Stuart. You are an England captain, be the bigger man.

And even if we all disagree on whether KP should be back in the England side, whether it is his fault or the ECB's fault or whether the parody account has anything to do with it at all; Can we all agree on one thing? That Piers Morgan is a massive berk.

I agree With many comments here...
.
1)Dobell should be discounted because he has a pro-KP stance and anyone with a pro-KP stance should be discounted....
2) Twitter stuff should be dismissed as joke....but text messages shod not.
3) Leaking is the sole and proprietary right of ECB
4) Anderson, Broad, Swann are not guilty unless twitter charges are proven agaiinmst them.....however KP is deemed guilty, even if the test contents or whther even a text was sent is not verifiable.
5) And shock, horror....KP the one that was deemed rubbing the nose in humility, as portrayed by ECB leaks.....is actually standing, talking and demanding equality.....unimaginable impunity

JDizzle wrote:And even if we all disagree on whether KP should be back in the England side, whether it is his fault or the ECB's fault or whether the parody account has anything to do with it at all; Can we all agree on one thing? That Piers Morgan is a massive berk.

Agree with you on the Jimmy autobiography too - I thought these had been knocked on the head after Swann's.

Re Jimmy's book. What if the ECB were considering bringing Vaughan into the backroom team? Compromised or what.

They are all just a bunch of kids, and should be told to shut up and play cricket.....they don't need to be best mates, or even pretend they like each other. Just play the fricken' game.

When Gazza was at Rangers, he cut holes in the backside of Richard Gough's shorts, when it was rumoured in the press that he (Gough) was gay. Gough was furious, but it never stopped them winning together...

Precisely.

So lets look at this event by event

1] KP criticises Nick Knight, is fined by ECB
Andersen criticises MV, no action taken.

2] KP texts something (no one still know what exactly it was, as Flower himself admitted he did not know the content) to his friends in SA team, he is banned
Swann calls Samit mediocre fat spinner and is let off
Swann says something less than complimentary about KP in his bio and thats just an honest opinion

3] KP accuses Broad, Swann and Andersen behind a parody twitter account. Subsequently that is owned up by some county player who is room mates with Broad. And half the Eng team follow the parody account within an hour of its creation. Circumstantial evidence, or rather for a person who is being parodied, this all points to his team mates ridiculing him. ECB ignores this.
KP texts something (no one still know what exactly it was, as Flower himself admitted he did not know the content) to his friends in SA team, he is banned. Now the ECB, Flower or anyone else did not have proof that this even happened. But KP was guilty until proven innocent. Also many posters dont acknowledge this as KPs honest opinion, when they feel that Swanns criticism of KPs captaincy was exactly that.

Does anyone see double standards here? Or they still think its apples and oranges?

And btw, team unity seems terribly out of form recently. Time to drop it for a Kharismatic Player considering we need to defend our crown in SL?

Time for all to be reconciled.

I think there is quite a lot of oranges and apples.

On your three examples Shanky:

1. MV has no official capacity with a sponsor so there are no grounds to penalise Jimmy. I personally don't think KP should have been fined for criticising Knight - it wasn't a nice thing to say about somebody you have to interact with, but it also shouldn't have been a punishable offence.

2. Swann's comments about KP were extremely mild - suggesting that he wasn't a perfect captain - and never does he say that KP is a c*** or words to that effect. About Patel? At the time most people agree that Samit needed to get fitter and Flower was saying similar things.

KP's texts were sent to the opposition in the middle of a series, and came after numerous previous issues with authority this summer.

3. The Twitter account was a bit of a laugh which we can't prove involved England players (certainly I'd guess they had a laugh at it and might have known who was behind it, but I doubt they were using it maliciously). We can prove that KP sent offensive texts about the captain (he's admitted them himself).

In addition I'd say that right now all these factors are old hat. I'd guess that the ECB are ready to forgive and forget on the proviso that KP cuts his losses by apologising, promises good behaviour in future and signs the contract.

Pietersen isn't playing in Surrey's CC match against Lancs at Liverpool starting tomorrow.

Part of a widening and continuing conspiracy against him? A return to the England fold imminent? Sorry to disappoint but my understanding is that with our Division One place secured he's simply been rested along with Murali Kartik to give some of the younger squad players an opportunity. Don't let that stop the theories though ....

I'd imagine it would be a case of Adams thinking that its pointless to give KP a game when his Surrey future is questionable and there is nothing to play for.

Shelsey93 wrote:I'd imagine it would be a case of Adams thinking that its pointless to give KP a game when his Surrey future is questionable and there is nothing to play for.

Hope that's not a leak, Shelsey!

shankythebiggestengfan wrote:So lets look at this event by event

1] KP criticises Nick Knight, is fined by ECB
Andersen criticises MV, no action taken.

2] KP texts something (no one still know what exactly it was, as Flower himself admitted he did not know the content) to his friends in SA team, he is banned
Swann calls Samit mediocre fat spinner and is let off
Swann says something less than complimentary about KP in his bio and thats just an honest opinion

3] KP accuses Broad, Swann and Andersen behind a parody twitter account. Subsequently that is owned up by some county player who is room mates with Broad. And half the Eng team follow the parody account within an hour of its creation. Circumstantial evidence, or rather for a person who is being parodied, this all points to his team mates ridiculing him. ECB ignores this.
KP texts something (no one still know what exactly it was, as Flower himself admitted he did not know the content) to his friends in SA team, he is banned. Now the ECB, Flower or anyone else did not have proof that this even happened. But KP was guilty until proven innocent. Also many posters dont acknowledge this as KPs honest opinion, when they feel that Swanns criticism of KPs captaincy was exactly that.

Does anyone see double standards here? Or they still think its apples and oranges?

And btw, team unity seems terribly out of form recently. Time to drop it for a Kharismatic Player considering we need to defend our crown in SL?

I do agree with all of it.

By the way I don't think Swann just said Patel will have to get fitter, nor did Flower call Samit a fat ****!. There is a limit to playing the spin doctor on that Shelsey.

shankythebiggestengfan wrote:So lets look at this event by event

1] KP criticises Nick Knight, is fined by ECB
Andersen criticises MV, no action taken.

2] KP texts something (no one still know what exactly it was, as Flower himself admitted he did not know the content) to his friends in SA team, he is banned
Swann calls Samit mediocre fat spinner and is let off
Swann says something less than complimentary about KP in his bio and thats just an honest opinion

3] KP accuses Broad, Swann and Andersen behind a parody twitter account. Subsequently that is owned up by some county player who is room mates with Broad. And half the Eng team follow the parody account within an hour of its creation. Circumstantial evidence, or rather for a person who is being parodied, this all points to his team mates ridiculing him. ECB ignores this.
KP texts something (no one still know what exactly it was, as Flower himself admitted he did not know the content) to his friends in SA team, he is banned. Now the ECB, Flower or anyone else did not have proof that this even happened. But KP was guilty until proven innocent. Also many posters dont acknowledge this as KPs honest opinion, when they feel that Swanns criticism of KPs captaincy was exactly that.

Does anyone see double standards here? Or they still think its apples and oranges?

And btw, team unity seems terribly out of form recently. Time to drop it for a Kharismatic Player considering we need to defend our crown in SL?

I agree with most of what you said, but the difference between KP criticizing Knight and Anderson criticizing Vaughan was that KP criticized a guy who does commentary for one of the ECB's broadcast partners and Anderson just criticized a former captain. Considering Vaughan is a commentator for TMS, I'd imagine if Anderson had criticized his commentating ability, he would have been fined as well.

shankythebiggestengfan wrote:So lets look at this event by event

1] KP criticises Nick Knight, is fined by ECB
Andersen criticises MV, no action taken.

2] KP texts something (no one still know what exactly it was, as Flower himself admitted he did not know the content) to his friends in SA team, he is banned
Swann calls Samit mediocre fat spinner and is let off
Swann says something less than complimentary about KP in his bio and thats just an honest opinion

3] KP accuses Broad, Swann and Andersen behind a parody twitter account. Subsequently that is owned up by some county player who is room mates with Broad. And half the Eng team follow the parody account within an hour of its creation. Circumstantial evidence, or rather for a person who is being parodied, this all points to his team mates ridiculing him. ECB ignores this.
KP texts something (no one still know what exactly it was, as Flower himself admitted he did not know the content) to his friends in SA team, he is banned. Now the ECB, Flower or anyone else did not have proof that this even happened. But KP was guilty until proven innocent. Also many posters dont acknowledge this as KPs honest opinion, when they feel that Swanns criticism of KPs captaincy was exactly that.

Does anyone see double standards here? Or they still think its apples and oranges?

And btw, team unity seems terribly out of form recently. Time to drop it for a Kharismatic Player considering we need to defend our crown in SL?

Was this piece written by yourself?