Cut the nose to spite the face
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The v2 Forum :: Sport :: Cricket
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Cut the nose to spite the face
First topic message reminder :
Did they just cut the nose to spite the face ?
Yes indeed ECB cut their nose to spite their face.
With 7000 runs, 88 tests @ 50+ average, a big 100 in his last overseas innings in Lanka to keep England hanging in as No. 1 and another big hundred in what was defnitely his LAST test to yet again keep them hanging by a flimsy thread as No.1....KP's status as their biggest superstar in the last 3 decades and a legend in English cricket is already confirmed.
The intent obviously was to "hit back and hurt back".......instead of finding ways to reconcile and move forward.
Unfortunately ECB's timing was as bad as their intent.
.
If it was repraminding and putting down a newbie with 20 odd tests and 1500 runs.....then ECB's intent to "hit back and hurt" may have worked.......but here they have probably added martyrdom to an exisiting superstardom.
KP could have finished with 9000 or even 10,000 runs in the next 3 years....even without those extra 2,000 runs runs..nothing changes in his standing as a cricketer...the loser is English cricket.
An extraordinary batsman, who served England well for long, a flawed genius who acknowledged his flawed emotionalism and one who took severeal steps towards reconcillation....the super star who was made a martyr today by the bureaucrats who did a classic " cut their nose to spite their own face"......is how history would sum it up when dust settles over this issue.
Did they just cut the nose to spite the face ?
Yes indeed ECB cut their nose to spite their face.
With 7000 runs, 88 tests @ 50+ average, a big 100 in his last overseas innings in Lanka to keep England hanging in as No. 1 and another big hundred in what was defnitely his LAST test to yet again keep them hanging by a flimsy thread as No.1....KP's status as their biggest superstar in the last 3 decades and a legend in English cricket is already confirmed.
The intent obviously was to "hit back and hurt back".......instead of finding ways to reconcile and move forward.
Unfortunately ECB's timing was as bad as their intent.
.
If it was repraminding and putting down a newbie with 20 odd tests and 1500 runs.....then ECB's intent to "hit back and hurt" may have worked.......but here they have probably added martyrdom to an exisiting superstardom.
KP could have finished with 9000 or even 10,000 runs in the next 3 years....even without those extra 2,000 runs runs..nothing changes in his standing as a cricketer...the loser is English cricket.
An extraordinary batsman, who served England well for long, a flawed genius who acknowledged his flawed emotionalism and one who took severeal steps towards reconcillation....the super star who was made a martyr today by the bureaucrats who did a classic " cut their nose to spite their own face"......is how history would sum it up when dust settles over this issue.
KP_fan- Posts : 10605
Join date : 2012-07-27
Re: Cut the nose to spite the face
Ha Ha.....I hate to say.....I told ya....
it was clear to me when they changed a 4 month contrcat into 12 months overnight......and went running to Lanka to save their b.utt from being sued
http://www.independent.ie/sport/other-sports/prospect-of-1m-pietersen-lawsuit-3242149.html
Prospect of £1m Pietersen lawsuit
Thursday September 27 2012
Be the first to comment
The England and Wales Cricket Board are facing the prospect of a £1m legal action from Kevin Pietersen if he is not offered a new central contract by the end of this week.
Pietersen has been advised that he has strong grounds to bring an action for unfair dismissal and breach of contract against the ECB if his central contract is not renewed when it expires on Sunday.
Negotiations were stepped up this week when Giles Clarke, the chairman of the ECB, arrived in Sri Lanka where Pietersen is working as a television commentator.
it was clear to me when they changed a 4 month contrcat into 12 months overnight......and went running to Lanka to save their b.utt from being sued
http://www.independent.ie/sport/other-sports/prospect-of-1m-pietersen-lawsuit-3242149.html
Prospect of £1m Pietersen lawsuit
Thursday September 27 2012
Be the first to comment
The England and Wales Cricket Board are facing the prospect of a £1m legal action from Kevin Pietersen if he is not offered a new central contract by the end of this week.
Pietersen has been advised that he has strong grounds to bring an action for unfair dismissal and breach of contract against the ECB if his central contract is not renewed when it expires on Sunday.
Negotiations were stepped up this week when Giles Clarke, the chairman of the ECB, arrived in Sri Lanka where Pietersen is working as a television commentator.
KP_fan- Posts : 10605
Join date : 2012-07-27
Re: Cut the nose to spite the face
telegraph explains the legalities in detail
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/cricket/kevinpietersen/9568883/ECB-facing-1m-legal-threat-over-Kevin-Pietersen-contract.html
Pietersen has been advised he has strong grounds to bring an action for unfair dismissal and breach of contract against the ECB if his central contract is not renewed when it expires on Sept 30.
The legal advice strengthens Pietersen’s position with England, although gaining a central contract will not necessarily guarantee him a place in Andy Flower’s side, with the coach one of the main obstacles to him resuming his international career.
The awarding of a central contract will be portrayed as a positive step but in reality it appears the board have little choice. Pietersen is believed to be bullish about his position and the fact that his reputation has been shredded already makes him less likely to back away from a legal fight.
The legal ramifications have added to the delicate nature of negotiations between Pietersen and the board, which were stepped up this week when Giles Clarke, the chairman of the ECB, arrived in Sri Lanka where Pietersen is working as a television commentator.
After service longer than 12 months, contracted staff are considered full-time employees in the eyes of the law. Pietersen has been centrally contracted by the ECB for six years and the failure to renew a fixed-term contract is technically dismissal by his employer.
Central contracts have been in existence for 12 years but historically there has always been a cricketing reason around ability to perform or fitness that has led to a player’s deal not being renewed. In Pietersen’s case there is no cricketing reason to dismiss him. He will, in essence, have been sacked for disciplinary reasons.
Pietersen was left out of the Lord’s Test and meetings have taken place behind closed doors but he has not received written warnings and at no point has the ECB withdrawn his central contract, a fact which could weaken its case.
There is no question Pietersen has been hard to manage and Flower is tired of dealing with his unpredictable behaviour. He could be accused of unsettling team-mates and the management structure, or behaviour unbecoming of an England player, but the central part of the case against Pietersen, the messages he sent to the South African side, would be very vulnerable in court.
Nobody at the ECB has viewed the messages and Pietersen has only publicly admitted to sending “provocative” content, a word no doubt selected on the advice of his lawyers and contrasting with the more serious term, “derogatory”, used by the ECB.
Over the past two weeks several members of the England hierarchy have referenced outstanding “issues” in relation to Pietersen being left off the list of centrally contracted players and the tour squad to India. The Daily Telegraph understands it is the content of the messages which remains the main issue. Pietersen has not divulged what he said to the South African players, leaving the ECB backed into a corner legally.
A case for unfair dismissal would probably be easier for Pietersen to win but compensation payments are capped by the Government at £72,000 - a paltry sum to a highly-paid sportsman.
However, breach of contract is far more serious and the case would have to be heard in the High Court, opening up the prospect of a bigger payout. Pietersen’s basic salary is worth about £250,000.
For a player who appears in all forms of the game (as Pietersen has recently indicated a willingness to do once again) he can earn about another £200,000 in appearance fees.
Bonuses for winning Test matches, Test series and one-day internationals would be added on top as well as earnings from endorsements and pension payments. Legal costs would also rack up the final payment were he to win a court case.
If the matter were to reach court it would be bruising for both sides.
The ECB would be able to publicly reveal Pietersen’s behaviour and claim he had breached his contract, but the board’s procedures would also come to light.
Pietersen has not talked publicly about his legal options but Piers Morgan has become his unofficial mouthpiece championing his cause on Twitter. Last week Morgan tweeted: “The ongoing victimisation of @kevinpp24 [Pietersen’s twitter name] is a total disgrace. ECB hasn’t produced a shred of evidence against him. He should now sue them.”
The two sides were close to an agreement two weeks ago but the position changed after the ECB’s last board meeting. A few days later Pietersen turned down the offer of a four-month interim contract.
Emotion abounds in sport and the dressing-room balance is hard to portray in legal terms. The high-profile nature of the player in question has also added to the problems but the Pietersen saga has served as precedent for the ECB when it comes to dealing with its international stars and will lead to a change in the terms and conditions of central contracts, which are due to be renewed next year.
Both sides realise solving the contractual issue is just the first step. Reintegrating Pietersen into the dressing room will be the biggest hurdle and will begin on the tour to New Zealand in the new year.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/cricket/kevinpietersen/9568883/ECB-facing-1m-legal-threat-over-Kevin-Pietersen-contract.html
Pietersen has been advised he has strong grounds to bring an action for unfair dismissal and breach of contract against the ECB if his central contract is not renewed when it expires on Sept 30.
The legal advice strengthens Pietersen’s position with England, although gaining a central contract will not necessarily guarantee him a place in Andy Flower’s side, with the coach one of the main obstacles to him resuming his international career.
The awarding of a central contract will be portrayed as a positive step but in reality it appears the board have little choice. Pietersen is believed to be bullish about his position and the fact that his reputation has been shredded already makes him less likely to back away from a legal fight.
The legal ramifications have added to the delicate nature of negotiations between Pietersen and the board, which were stepped up this week when Giles Clarke, the chairman of the ECB, arrived in Sri Lanka where Pietersen is working as a television commentator.
After service longer than 12 months, contracted staff are considered full-time employees in the eyes of the law. Pietersen has been centrally contracted by the ECB for six years and the failure to renew a fixed-term contract is technically dismissal by his employer.
Central contracts have been in existence for 12 years but historically there has always been a cricketing reason around ability to perform or fitness that has led to a player’s deal not being renewed. In Pietersen’s case there is no cricketing reason to dismiss him. He will, in essence, have been sacked for disciplinary reasons.
Pietersen was left out of the Lord’s Test and meetings have taken place behind closed doors but he has not received written warnings and at no point has the ECB withdrawn his central contract, a fact which could weaken its case.
There is no question Pietersen has been hard to manage and Flower is tired of dealing with his unpredictable behaviour. He could be accused of unsettling team-mates and the management structure, or behaviour unbecoming of an England player, but the central part of the case against Pietersen, the messages he sent to the South African side, would be very vulnerable in court.
Nobody at the ECB has viewed the messages and Pietersen has only publicly admitted to sending “provocative” content, a word no doubt selected on the advice of his lawyers and contrasting with the more serious term, “derogatory”, used by the ECB.
Over the past two weeks several members of the England hierarchy have referenced outstanding “issues” in relation to Pietersen being left off the list of centrally contracted players and the tour squad to India. The Daily Telegraph understands it is the content of the messages which remains the main issue. Pietersen has not divulged what he said to the South African players, leaving the ECB backed into a corner legally.
A case for unfair dismissal would probably be easier for Pietersen to win but compensation payments are capped by the Government at £72,000 - a paltry sum to a highly-paid sportsman.
However, breach of contract is far more serious and the case would have to be heard in the High Court, opening up the prospect of a bigger payout. Pietersen’s basic salary is worth about £250,000.
For a player who appears in all forms of the game (as Pietersen has recently indicated a willingness to do once again) he can earn about another £200,000 in appearance fees.
Bonuses for winning Test matches, Test series and one-day internationals would be added on top as well as earnings from endorsements and pension payments. Legal costs would also rack up the final payment were he to win a court case.
If the matter were to reach court it would be bruising for both sides.
The ECB would be able to publicly reveal Pietersen’s behaviour and claim he had breached his contract, but the board’s procedures would also come to light.
Pietersen has not talked publicly about his legal options but Piers Morgan has become his unofficial mouthpiece championing his cause on Twitter. Last week Morgan tweeted: “The ongoing victimisation of @kevinpp24 [Pietersen’s twitter name] is a total disgrace. ECB hasn’t produced a shred of evidence against him. He should now sue them.”
The two sides were close to an agreement two weeks ago but the position changed after the ECB’s last board meeting. A few days later Pietersen turned down the offer of a four-month interim contract.
Emotion abounds in sport and the dressing-room balance is hard to portray in legal terms. The high-profile nature of the player in question has also added to the problems but the Pietersen saga has served as precedent for the ECB when it comes to dealing with its international stars and will lead to a change in the terms and conditions of central contracts, which are due to be renewed next year.
Both sides realise solving the contractual issue is just the first step. Reintegrating Pietersen into the dressing room will be the biggest hurdle and will begin on the tour to New Zealand in the new year.
KP_fan- Posts : 10605
Join date : 2012-07-27
Re: Cut the nose to spite the face
I say Get Rid of Flower.....his ego is coming in the way of England's well being.
he lost in Ind 5-0.......in UAE 3-0.......did not win in Lanka ( saved by one who he hates).......lost the test series to SA 2-0 in home conditions ( a 3-0 avoided by one who he hates).......
If he cannot win the world cup and beat India in India.....then his ego, baggage, patronization of an anti KP gang inside the dressing room......blocking the best player England has produced since Botham......is harming England's interest.
he was quick to be given ( or take) credits....but has to be made answerable and responsible for the debacles on field and inside dressing room.
Time should be running out on Flower
he lost in Ind 5-0.......in UAE 3-0.......did not win in Lanka ( saved by one who he hates).......lost the test series to SA 2-0 in home conditions ( a 3-0 avoided by one who he hates).......
If he cannot win the world cup and beat India in India.....then his ego, baggage, patronization of an anti KP gang inside the dressing room......blocking the best player England has produced since Botham......is harming England's interest.
he was quick to be given ( or take) credits....but has to be made answerable and responsible for the debacles on field and inside dressing room.
Time should be running out on Flower
KP_fan- Posts : 10605
Join date : 2012-07-27
Re: Cut the nose to spite the face
Flower's regimented ways are only going to hurt the England cricket team that would be deprived of their best batsman, and the ECB too would be dragged into a legal mess. England captain Alastair Cook want's Pietersen back, he is a world class batsman and a match winner for England. International cricket is not a kid's affair, the England players involved have to get their act together. The said texts were about Strauss who has now retired and also Pietersen has apologized to him in person. Cook has expressed the hope that Pietersen would be back soon. Players like Ravi Bopara and Eoin Morgan also spoke on similar lines. Then who has a problem against KP? What is their case against him? Why is Flower taking that side?
msp83- Posts : 16223
Join date : 2011-05-30
Location : India
Re: Cut the nose to spite the face
KP_fan wrote:telegraph explains the legalities in detail
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/cricket/kevinpietersen/9568883/ECB-facing-1m-legal-threat-over-Kevin-Pietersen-contract.html
Pietersen has been advised he has strong grounds to bring an action for unfair dismissal and breach of contract against the ECB if his central contract is not renewed when it expires on Sept 30.
The legal advice strengthens Pietersen’s position with England, although gaining a central contract will not necessarily guarantee him a place in Andy Flower’s side, with the coach one of the main obstacles to him resuming his international career.
The awarding of a central contract will be portrayed as a positive step but in reality it appears the board have little choice. Pietersen is believed to be bullish about his position and the fact that his reputation has been shredded already makes him less likely to back away from a legal fight.
The legal ramifications have added to the delicate nature of negotiations between Pietersen and the board, which were stepped up this week when Giles Clarke, the chairman of the ECB, arrived in Sri Lanka where Pietersen is working as a television commentator.
After service longer than 12 months, contracted staff are considered full-time employees in the eyes of the law. Pietersen has been centrally contracted by the ECB for six years and the failure to renew a fixed-term contract is technically dismissal by his employer.
Central contracts have been in existence for 12 years but historically there has always been a cricketing reason around ability to perform or fitness that has led to a player’s deal not being renewed. In Pietersen’s case there is no cricketing reason to dismiss him. He will, in essence, have been sacked for disciplinary reasons.
Pietersen was left out of the Lord’s Test and meetings have taken place behind closed doors but he has not received written warnings and at no point has the ECB withdrawn his central contract, a fact which could weaken its case.
There is no question Pietersen has been hard to manage and Flower is tired of dealing with his unpredictable behaviour. He could be accused of unsettling team-mates and the management structure, or behaviour unbecoming of an England player, but the central part of the case against Pietersen, the messages he sent to the South African side, would be very vulnerable in court.
Nobody at the ECB has viewed the messages and Pietersen has only publicly admitted to sending “provocative” content, a word no doubt selected on the advice of his lawyers and contrasting with the more serious term, “derogatory”, used by the ECB.
Over the past two weeks several members of the England hierarchy have referenced outstanding “issues” in relation to Pietersen being left off the list of centrally contracted players and the tour squad to India. The Daily Telegraph understands it is the content of the messages which remains the main issue. Pietersen has not divulged what he said to the South African players, leaving the ECB backed into a corner legally.
A case for unfair dismissal would probably be easier for Pietersen to win but compensation payments are capped by the Government at £72,000 - a paltry sum to a highly-paid sportsman.
However, breach of contract is far more serious and the case would have to be heard in the High Court, opening up the prospect of a bigger payout. Pietersen’s basic salary is worth about £250,000.
For a player who appears in all forms of the game (as Pietersen has recently indicated a willingness to do once again) he can earn about another £200,000 in appearance fees.
Bonuses for winning Test matches, Test series and one-day internationals would be added on top as well as earnings from endorsements and pension payments. Legal costs would also rack up the final payment were he to win a court case.
If the matter were to reach court it would be bruising for both sides.
The ECB would be able to publicly reveal Pietersen’s behaviour and claim he had breached his contract, but the board’s procedures would also come to light.
Pietersen has not talked publicly about his legal options but Piers Morgan has become his unofficial mouthpiece championing his cause on Twitter. Last week Morgan tweeted: “The ongoing victimisation of @kevinpp24 [Pietersen’s twitter name] is a total disgrace. ECB hasn’t produced a shred of evidence against him. He should now sue them.”
The two sides were close to an agreement two weeks ago but the position changed after the ECB’s last board meeting. A few days later Pietersen turned down the offer of a four-month interim contract.
Emotion abounds in sport and the dressing-room balance is hard to portray in legal terms. The high-profile nature of the player in question has also added to the problems but the Pietersen saga has served as precedent for the ECB when it comes to dealing with its international stars and will lead to a change in the terms and conditions of central contracts, which are due to be renewed next year.
Both sides realise solving the contractual issue is just the first step. Reintegrating Pietersen into the dressing room will be the biggest hurdle and will begin on the tour to New Zealand in the new year.
Hmmm, so sources close to KP are leaking stuff now. You're being inconsistent KPF, where's the outrage at leaks gone
Pete C (Kiwireddevil)- Posts : 10925
Join date : 2011-01-26
Location : London, England
Re: Cut the nose to spite the face
The most interesting thing in Nick Hoult's article is that he thinks KP will go to NZ.
I'd say that if things are sorted he needs to go to India, for the good of the team and also because, the longer he's out of the team, the harder it is likely to be to re-integrate himself effectively.
I'd say that if things are sorted he needs to go to India, for the good of the team and also because, the longer he's out of the team, the harder it is likely to be to re-integrate himself effectively.
Shelsey93- Posts : 3134
Join date : 2011-12-14
Age : 31
Re: Cut the nose to spite the face
Shelsey93 wrote:The most interesting thing in Nick Hoult's article is that he thinks KP will go to NZ.
I'd say that if things are sorted he needs to go to India, for the good of the team and also because, the longer he's out of the team, the harder it is likely to be to re-integrate himself effectively.
Yeah the onus of reintegration thingy should be on KP
Because it's KP who has decided to drop himself from the team.......and decided be left out from the India tour
and what is this re-integration monkey .........nothing concrete, but a fluffy buzzword devised by Flower to...... as the report say continue to block KP's return.
My suggestion....Flower's gotta spit his ego.......put a lid on the charade of happy dressing room......stop patronizing a bunch of brats in dressing room, who target KP.......tell them to get on with the business of playing and winning...for that is all that he and the team will be measured on.....
Else Flower own job is on line.......mark my words
Last edited by KP_fan on Thu 27 Sep 2012, 11:07 am; edited 1 time in total
KP_fan- Posts : 10605
Join date : 2012-07-27
Re: Cut the nose to spite the face
Hmmm, so sources close to KP are leaking stuff now. You're being inconsistent KPF, where's the outrage at leaks gone
Hmm....if these leaks are coming from the KP camp......then I am glad they learnt their lessons in how to fight a tactical war-fare.
Had actions been taken against the ECB leaks and punishment meted out by now.....then KP camp's leaks would have been objectionable.
Now unfortunately in the murky scheme of things.....it only seems reasonably tactical.
KP_fan- Posts : 10605
Join date : 2012-07-27
Re: Cut the nose to spite the face
Agree with Shelsey that if the stuff is sorted out soon, then Pietersen will have to go to India for the test series itself. The ECB can certainly afford a 17 man tour squad?
msp83- Posts : 16223
Join date : 2011-05-30
Location : India
Re: Cut the nose to spite the face
Surrey are chasing Graeme Smith for a big money contract http://www.espncricinfo.com/southafrica/content/current/story/584201.html
Interesting that they couldn't find money for KP without his ECB top up
Interesting that they couldn't find money for KP without his ECB top up
Pete C (Kiwireddevil)- Posts : 10925
Join date : 2011-01-26
Location : London, England
Re: Cut the nose to spite the face
Perhaps they would be hoping Pietersen would be available after all, if the issues get resolved. Now Smith and KP in the same side? Should really constitute a mutual admiration club!!.
msp83- Posts : 16223
Join date : 2011-05-30
Location : India
Re: Cut the nose to spite the face
msp83 wrote:Perhaps they would be hoping Pietersen would be available after all, if the issues get resolved. Now Smith and KP in the same side? Should really constitute a mutual admiration club!!.
A few weeks back word was Surrey "couldn't afford" KP full time if he wasn't centrally contracted.
Hadn't thought about the fact that KP and Smith aren't the best of friends
Pete C (Kiwireddevil)- Posts : 10925
Join date : 2011-01-26
Location : London, England
Re: Cut the nose to spite the face
It appears that inspite of flower not wanting it....and also looking like Flower is the only one not wanting it........ECB WILL HAVE TO give a contrcat today to KP.
Good Wins over Evil...always
It is suspected that Flower will victimize KP even when he returns
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/cricket/article-2210578/ECB-ready-offer-Pietersen-new-contract.html?ito=feeds-newsxml
England may be ready to offer Kevin Pietersen a new 12-month contract, but any arrangement to bring the player out of exile is likely to be no more than a marriage of convenience.
Reports have suggested that the parties are close to agreement and a deal to resolve the issues surrounding Pietersen's exile from international duty is imminent.
The England Cricket Board insist they are under no time pressure even though Pietersen becomes a free agent from midnight on Sunday when his existing contract expires.
Hope: Kevin Pietersen could be offered a new deal by the ECB
Any offer of a new contract would first need to be ratified by the ECB executive committee and they are keen to let coach Andy Flower and his team finish the World T20 before any announcement.
But any peace is likely to be fragile, at best.
Suggestions that the ECB may feel they have no choice but to offer him a contract or risk legal action against them for unfair dismissal have increased the hope inside Pietersen's camp that negotiations may let him be selected for the one-day games on the India tour - or at least the Test tour to New Zealand.
But Flower and England seem some way from being convinced the batsman's new commitment to the cause is not mere pragmatism.
Good Wins over Evil...always
It is suspected that Flower will victimize KP even when he returns
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/cricket/article-2210578/ECB-ready-offer-Pietersen-new-contract.html?ito=feeds-newsxml
England may be ready to offer Kevin Pietersen a new 12-month contract, but any arrangement to bring the player out of exile is likely to be no more than a marriage of convenience.
Reports have suggested that the parties are close to agreement and a deal to resolve the issues surrounding Pietersen's exile from international duty is imminent.
The England Cricket Board insist they are under no time pressure even though Pietersen becomes a free agent from midnight on Sunday when his existing contract expires.
Hope: Kevin Pietersen could be offered a new deal by the ECB
Any offer of a new contract would first need to be ratified by the ECB executive committee and they are keen to let coach Andy Flower and his team finish the World T20 before any announcement.
But any peace is likely to be fragile, at best.
Suggestions that the ECB may feel they have no choice but to offer him a contract or risk legal action against them for unfair dismissal have increased the hope inside Pietersen's camp that negotiations may let him be selected for the one-day games on the India tour - or at least the Test tour to New Zealand.
But Flower and England seem some way from being convinced the batsman's new commitment to the cause is not mere pragmatism.
KP_fan- Posts : 10605
Join date : 2012-07-27
Re: Cut the nose to spite the face
Kp what is with you pal.good v evil.. lol.. the truth is there is blame on both sides..
mystiroakey- Posts : 32472
Join date : 2011-03-06
Age : 47
Location : surrey
Re: Cut the nose to spite the face
one party may habe made mistakes......the other...went far beyond and out of proportion..... on an evil witch hunt.....driven by egos hatred and jealousies to demolish the career of one of the greatest in the game.
KP_fan- Posts : 10605
Join date : 2012-07-27
mystiroakey- Posts : 32472
Join date : 2011-03-06
Age : 47
Location : surrey
Re: Cut the nose to spite the face
KP_fan wrote:one party may habe made mistakes......the other...went far beyond and out of proportion..... on an evil witch hunt.....driven by egos hatred and jealousies to demolish the career of one of the greatest in the game.
But enough about how KP drove Strauss into retirement
...
Pete C (Kiwireddevil)- Posts : 10925
Join date : 2011-01-26
Location : London, England
Re: Cut the nose to spite the face
Good to hear that the ECB is seeing sense at last. Disappointed Flower's head isn't working well as yet. Seems to be thinking with his heart, and he's way pass the age to do that, particularly with the kind of responsibility that he has in his position.
msp83- Posts : 16223
Join date : 2011-05-30
Location : India
Re: Cut the nose to spite the face
I think Flower might feel let down by ECB and quits........and it's said only half in jest.
KP_fan- Posts : 10605
Join date : 2012-07-27
Re: Cut the nose to spite the face
Seriously, he should consider that if his ego comes in the way of resolving this issue. He has a significant role in letting the situation develop this far.KP_fan wrote:I think Flower might feel let down by ECB and quits........and it's said only half in jest.
msp83- Posts : 16223
Join date : 2011-05-30
Location : India
Re: Cut the nose to spite the face
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/cricket/article-2210868/Kevin-Pietersen-saga--end-Andy-Flower.html?ito=feeds-newsxml
and as I told Flower might quit.........daily mail reports that the return of KP will hasten the exit of Flower from England set-up......
Pietersen comeback edges closer - but will saga spell the end for Flower?
By Paul Newman
Kevin Pietersen begins life as a free agent in a Colombo TV studio on Monday with his future still hanging like a dark cloud over all that England do.
It is still expected that as soon as England return home from the World Twenty20 they will announce that Pietersen has signed a new central contract to replace the one that expired on Sunday night.
But even that would be far from the end of this sorry story. In fact, it could be just the beginning
So deep is the rift between Pietersen and some key figures in the England set-up that his re-integration into the team could be a long and painful process, whether it starts for the one-day series in India in the new year or, more likely, the full tour of New Zealand that begins in February.
Talks here in Sri Lanka between Pietersen and senior ECB figures, with the baton being passed from Hugh Morris to board chairman Giles Clarke last week, appear to have been largely productive - but it is what happens next that is key.
The ‘provocative’ text messages Pietersen sent to South African players during last summer’s Test series are still the biggest obstacle to him being fully welcomed back by coach Andy Flower and senior England players.
The whole saga seems to have weighed particularly heavily on Flower’s shoulders and his attitude towards having Pietersen back will be integral to any contractual resolution and a successful return to the team
The biggest worry for the ECB is that Flower might have become so wearied by the shadow this crisis has cast over England that it will hasten the exit of the most successful and highly regarded coach they have ever had.
Then there is the matter of Alastair Cook being keen to appoint an official vice-captain ahead of England’s Test tour to India, a move that could have implications for the peace process because it is likely to be one of the senior players who are least inclined to want Pietersen back.
The players, of course, will just have to get on with it if they are told that Pietersen is to return. But every aspect of their attitude towards their erstwhile team-mate, and his to them, will be under scrutiny from the moment he sets foot in an England environment.
It will be the biggest examination yet of the team spirit and respect that Flower holds so dear.
On the surface there really should not be too much delaying a resolution now. Pietersen has apologised to Andrew Strauss for the messages and has insisted to England that he is committed to all forms of cricket.
But any announcement from Clarke over the next few days will be merely another chapter in a drama that will run and run.
and as I told Flower might quit.........daily mail reports that the return of KP will hasten the exit of Flower from England set-up......
Pietersen comeback edges closer - but will saga spell the end for Flower?
By Paul Newman
Kevin Pietersen begins life as a free agent in a Colombo TV studio on Monday with his future still hanging like a dark cloud over all that England do.
It is still expected that as soon as England return home from the World Twenty20 they will announce that Pietersen has signed a new central contract to replace the one that expired on Sunday night.
But even that would be far from the end of this sorry story. In fact, it could be just the beginning
So deep is the rift between Pietersen and some key figures in the England set-up that his re-integration into the team could be a long and painful process, whether it starts for the one-day series in India in the new year or, more likely, the full tour of New Zealand that begins in February.
Talks here in Sri Lanka between Pietersen and senior ECB figures, with the baton being passed from Hugh Morris to board chairman Giles Clarke last week, appear to have been largely productive - but it is what happens next that is key.
The ‘provocative’ text messages Pietersen sent to South African players during last summer’s Test series are still the biggest obstacle to him being fully welcomed back by coach Andy Flower and senior England players.
The whole saga seems to have weighed particularly heavily on Flower’s shoulders and his attitude towards having Pietersen back will be integral to any contractual resolution and a successful return to the team
The biggest worry for the ECB is that Flower might have become so wearied by the shadow this crisis has cast over England that it will hasten the exit of the most successful and highly regarded coach they have ever had.
Then there is the matter of Alastair Cook being keen to appoint an official vice-captain ahead of England’s Test tour to India, a move that could have implications for the peace process because it is likely to be one of the senior players who are least inclined to want Pietersen back.
The players, of course, will just have to get on with it if they are told that Pietersen is to return. But every aspect of their attitude towards their erstwhile team-mate, and his to them, will be under scrutiny from the moment he sets foot in an England environment.
It will be the biggest examination yet of the team spirit and respect that Flower holds so dear.
On the surface there really should not be too much delaying a resolution now. Pietersen has apologised to Andrew Strauss for the messages and has insisted to England that he is committed to all forms of cricket.
But any announcement from Clarke over the next few days will be merely another chapter in a drama that will run and run.
KP_fan- Posts : 10605
Join date : 2012-07-27
Re: Cut the nose to spite the face
Pietersen was offered a central contract which he declined to accept.
Was then offered a 4 month contract for the Indian tour that was IDENTICAL to the contracts offered to other non-centrally contracted players whiche he declined to accept.
If he comes back in, it is because he has finally accepted he has to put England above IPL.
Continuing to claim Pietersen is an innocent party just makes people look stupid. He and he alone created the mess he is in - yet apparently some people want everyone else to bend over backwards to accomodate him.
Was then offered a 4 month contract for the Indian tour that was IDENTICAL to the contracts offered to other non-centrally contracted players whiche he declined to accept.
If he comes back in, it is because he has finally accepted he has to put England above IPL.
Continuing to claim Pietersen is an innocent party just makes people look stupid. He and he alone created the mess he is in - yet apparently some people want everyone else to bend over backwards to accomodate him.
LondonTiger- Moderator
- Posts : 23485
Join date : 2011-02-10
Re: Cut the nose to spite the face
As I said, Flower's failures and his stubbornness too has played its part in the saga, and he either has to fall in line or get packing rather than his ego hurting the side.
And on the players, well, they won't be the first set of cricketers who have to work with players haven't been best of friends. But KP has obvious cricketing ability, and they just have to find ways to work together, no less, no more.
As for Pietersen, he has to think a bit more before acting on offfield cricketing matters, and should see to it that he won't provoke unhealthy reactions by his initiated actions.
If Flower can't live with it, he has to go.
And on the players, well, they won't be the first set of cricketers who have to work with players haven't been best of friends. But KP has obvious cricketing ability, and they just have to find ways to work together, no less, no more.
As for Pietersen, he has to think a bit more before acting on offfield cricketing matters, and should see to it that he won't provoke unhealthy reactions by his initiated actions.
If Flower can't live with it, he has to go.
msp83- Posts : 16223
Join date : 2011-05-30
Location : India
Re: Cut the nose to spite the face
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/cricket/19783259
GSC- Posts : 43496
Join date : 2011-03-28
Age : 32
Location : Leicester
Re: Cut the nose to spite the face
It'll be excellent if Pietersen is added to the test squad for the India tour as the BBC report seems to be indicating.
msp83- Posts : 16223
Join date : 2011-05-30
Location : India
Re: Cut the nose to spite the face
Looks like it will be all be sorted once KP issues a Nick Clegg style "I'm sorry. I'm so so sorry" video on You Tube
Corporalhumblebucket- Posts : 7413
Join date : 2011-03-05
Location : Day's march from Surrey
Re: Cut the nose to spite the face
Corporalhumblebucket wrote:Looks like it will be all be sorted once KP issues a Nick Clegg style "I'm sorry. I'm so so sorry" video on You Tube
But will he storm off in a huff if it doesn't make a #1 charity single?
Pete C (Kiwireddevil)- Posts : 10925
Join date : 2011-01-26
Location : London, England
Re: Cut the nose to spite the face
Corporalhumblebucket wrote:Looks like it will be all be sorted once KP issues a Nick Clegg style "I'm sorry. I'm so so sorry" video on You Tube
Indeed.
Not the Queen's birthday is it, Corporal?
guildfordbat- Posts : 16889
Join date : 2011-04-07
Re: Cut the nose to spite the face
I don't think they'll add him to the India tour. Expect him to be playing in New Zealand, or perhaps the India ODI's.
Re: Cut the nose to spite the face
Guildford - I think the Queen's already had two birthdays earlier in the year. A third could suggest a hint of overindulgence! No, I've got some time off duty...will be venturing north later in the week.guildfordbat wrote: Not the Queen's birthday is it, Corporal?
Corporalhumblebucket- Posts : 7413
Join date : 2011-03-05
Location : Day's march from Surrey
Re: Cut the nose to spite the face
I think they have to add him to the India tour - mostly because if everything is sorted (as most journalists are now suggesting), then they will look pretty stupid if they start struggling without him.
Taking him as a 17th player is fine. Its a long series, and with Bell going back and possibly missing a Test, we could do with the extra reserve anyhow.
I hope he includes the supporters in his apology. He let us all down, and I'd like him to recognise that.
Taking him as a 17th player is fine. Its a long series, and with Bell going back and possibly missing a Test, we could do with the extra reserve anyhow.
I hope he includes the supporters in his apology. He let us all down, and I'd like him to recognise that.
Shelsey93- Posts : 3134
Join date : 2011-12-14
Age : 31
Re: Cut the nose to spite the face
Corporalhumblebucket wrote:Guildford - I think the Queen's already had two birthdays earlier in the year. A third could suggest a hint of overindulgence! No, I've got some time off duty...will be venturing north later in the week.guildfordbat wrote: Not the Queen's birthday is it, Corporal?
Ah, that explains it!
Maybe a spot of lunch on arrival north at the Burger van?
guildfordbat- Posts : 16889
Join date : 2011-04-07
Re: Cut the nose to spite the face
Despite all the stupud claims of England being a better side without Pietersen in it, the England players haven't been able to adapt to the forced loss of their best batsman and are out of the World T-20I without making it the semis.
You could always say that Pietersen would not have made any difference whatsoever, but one of the very best T-20I batsman with a fine record in the previous event, the chances of him doing better were very high, and without him, the England top order struggled. 18-3 after 3 overs today, and they lost too many wickets for next to nothing in most of the matches.
I just hope Flower would see some sense at least now and work on making England a better side.
You could always say that Pietersen would not have made any difference whatsoever, but one of the very best T-20I batsman with a fine record in the previous event, the chances of him doing better were very high, and without him, the England top order struggled. 18-3 after 3 overs today, and they lost too many wickets for next to nothing in most of the matches.
I just hope Flower would see some sense at least now and work on making England a better side.
msp83- Posts : 16223
Join date : 2011-05-30
Location : India
Re: Cut the nose to spite the face
Anyone who thinks one player cannot make a huge difference just need to comapre WI with Gayle and WI without him.
ShankyCricket- Posts : 4546
Join date : 2011-01-28
Age : 30
Re: Cut the nose to spite the face
T20 is one form....where one man can easily make a difference.
Test is the form where one man makes least difference.......but KP makes an immediate diference in tests also
Test is the form where one man makes least difference.......but KP makes an immediate diference in tests also
KP_fan- Posts : 10605
Join date : 2012-07-27
Re: Cut the nose to spite the face
Shelsey93 wrote:I think they have to add him to the India tour - mostly because if everything is sorted (as most journalists are now suggesting), then they will look pretty stupid if they start struggling without him.
Taking him as a 17th player is fine. Its a long series, and with Bell going back and possibly missing a Test, we could do with the extra reserve anyhow.
I hope he includes the supporters in his apology. He let us all down, and I'd like him to recognise that.
And an apology to us fans from the ECB / selectors and Flowers for totally mismanaging the whole sorry episode. And some of the other big heads in the team who have helped create this mess. KP has to be accountable, but he is not the only one....
DouglasJardinesbox- Posts : 202
Join date : 2012-05-27
Re: Cut the nose to spite the face
The update to the cricinfo report on the likelihood of Pietersen being offered a new controct hinds that at last Flower is being forced to se sense. Cook's stand in favore of KP's return and the legal issues mean that he would be back in the side, but Flower could delay the process till the NZ tour.
msp83- Posts : 16223
Join date : 2011-05-30
Location : India
Re: Cut the nose to spite the face
Flower is the Managing Drector...or whatever Big titled guy who is basically the custodian of the wellfare of English cricket.
sadly he put his ego ( and continues to do so) ahead of team's interest...and is the one biggest responsible for the losst of no.1 status and debacle in world cup.
I am surprised to see him go scot free of any accountability.
He must take moral responsibility and at the very least apologize if not quit as the managing director
sadly he put his ego ( and continues to do so) ahead of team's interest...and is the one biggest responsible for the losst of no.1 status and debacle in world cup.
I am surprised to see him go scot free of any accountability.
He must take moral responsibility and at the very least apologize if not quit as the managing director
KP_fan- Posts : 10605
Join date : 2012-07-27
Re: Cut the nose to spite the face
Anyone know the time that the KP news conference today is due?
skyeman- Posts : 4693
Join date : 2011-09-18
Location : Isle Of Skye
Re: Cut the nose to spite the face
skyeman wrote:Anyone know the time that the KP news conference today is due?
11.30
Mixed reports coming out - some think he will be added to the India party and some don't....
Shelsey93- Posts : 3134
Join date : 2011-12-14
Age : 31
Re: Cut the nose to spite the face
Seems like its a 'process of re-integration' for the rest of 2012 followed by selection.
If that is the case then that is rubbish. As journalists have pointed out on Twitter:
1. Its surely easier to re-integrate from the inside.
2. Having KP undergoing 're-integration' marks him out as different from everybody else more than being added to the squad does. It suggests that he's a prisoner, not a cricketer.
3. It will surely be harder to re-integrate when he barges back in for NZ and takes somebody's place (particularly if India is successful).
4. It just drags the saga on for longer than we need.
If that is the case then that is rubbish. As journalists have pointed out on Twitter:
1. Its surely easier to re-integrate from the inside.
2. Having KP undergoing 're-integration' marks him out as different from everybody else more than being added to the squad does. It suggests that he's a prisoner, not a cricketer.
3. It will surely be harder to re-integrate when he barges back in for NZ and takes somebody's place (particularly if India is successful).
4. It just drags the saga on for longer than we need.
Shelsey93- Posts : 3134
Join date : 2011-12-14
Age : 31
Re: Cut the nose to spite the face
Press release is out, and rather wordy.
They still want to go on about these texts (which, incidentally, have become BBM messages!):
"With regards the issue of the BBM messages, due to the fact that Kevin had not retained the BBM messages, this matter has been successfully concluded through a binding assurance provided to ECB by Kevin. Kevin conceded that the messages exchanged were provocative. ECB is satisfied, following receipt of this binding assurance, that to the best of his recollection, Kevin did not convey any messages which were derogatory about the England Captain, the England Team Director, the ECB or employees of the ECB. Furthermore, there was no tactical information whatsoever provided to members of the South African Touring Party."
The positive is that he's apologised to everybody, including the fans, for the issues caused by the controversy.
.
They still want to go on about these texts (which, incidentally, have become BBM messages!):
"With regards the issue of the BBM messages, due to the fact that Kevin had not retained the BBM messages, this matter has been successfully concluded through a binding assurance provided to ECB by Kevin. Kevin conceded that the messages exchanged were provocative. ECB is satisfied, following receipt of this binding assurance, that to the best of his recollection, Kevin did not convey any messages which were derogatory about the England Captain, the England Team Director, the ECB or employees of the ECB. Furthermore, there was no tactical information whatsoever provided to members of the South African Touring Party."
The positive is that he's apologised to everybody, including the fans, for the issues caused by the controversy.
.
Shelsey93- Posts : 3134
Join date : 2011-12-14
Age : 31
Re: Cut the nose to spite the face
Reintegration into the team, presumably then followed by reintegration back into society? ....
Corporalhumblebucket- Posts : 7413
Join date : 2011-03-05
Location : Day's march from Surrey
Re: Cut the nose to spite the face
So he's signed a 4 month contract after all...
chrisss- Posts : 137
Join date : 2012-06-30
Location : Lancashire
Re: Cut the nose to spite the face
4 month!!
I am not sure i like that
I am not sure i like that
mystiroakey- Posts : 32472
Join date : 2011-03-06
Age : 47
Location : surrey
Re: Cut the nose to spite the face
ECB yet again proving that they are a stupid bunch of jokers. Reintegration? 4 month contract? no clarity on selection? Idiots, absolute idiots!.
Think we haven't heard the last of the saga.
Think we haven't heard the last of the saga.
msp83- Posts : 16223
Join date : 2011-05-30
Location : India
Re: Cut the nose to spite the face
ECB and Flower are trying to show on surface.....in vain though.....Look we taught him a lesson
when in reality....they are desperate to have his cricketing abilities....
and are under fire from a potential legal loss.......
so by wanting to continuously remind all that KP was the villian and the only villian who has been taught a lesson and is being taken back conditionally.........the are leaving room for more behind the scene problems
when in reality....they are desperate to have his cricketing abilities....
and are under fire from a potential legal loss.......
so by wanting to continuously remind all that KP was the villian and the only villian who has been taught a lesson and is being taken back conditionally.........the are leaving room for more behind the scene problems
KP_fan- Posts : 10605
Join date : 2012-07-27
Re: Cut the nose to spite the face
Thank the heavens that there is no Soviet style labour camps or China style cultural revolution where the people who needed to be reformed in the eyes of the administrators were plucked out of universities and colleges and were send to the villages to learn techniques of agriculture.
Andy Flower, do you bloody remember the armband of 2003?
Andy Flower, do you bloody remember the armband of 2003?
msp83- Posts : 16223
Join date : 2011-05-30
Location : India
Re: Cut the nose to spite the face
MSP what the heck are you on about mate!
mystiroakey- Posts : 32472
Join date : 2011-03-06
Age : 47
Location : surrey
Re: Cut the nose to spite the face
A 4 month reintegration process!. What on earth are they talking about? previously unheard in international cricket.
msp83- Posts : 16223
Join date : 2011-05-30
Location : India
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