Cut the nose to spite the face

First topic message reminder :

Did they just cut the nose to spite the face ?

Yes indeed ECB cut their nose to spite their face.

With 7000 runs, 88 tests @ 50+ average, a big 100 in his last overseas innings in Lanka to keep England hanging in as No. 1 and another big hundred in what was defnitely his LAST test to yet again keep them hanging by a flimsy thread as No.1....KP's status as their biggest superstar in the last 3 decades and a legend in English cricket is already confirmed.


The intent obviously was to "hit back and hurt back".......instead of finding ways to reconcile and move forward.
Unfortunately ECB's timing was as bad as their intent.
.
If it was repraminding and putting down a newbie with 20 odd tests and 1500 runs.....then ECB's intent to "hit back and hurt" may have worked.......but here they have probably added martyrdom to an exisiting superstardom.

KP could have finished with 9000 or even 10,000 runs in the next 3 years....even without those extra 2,000 runs runs..nothing changes in his standing as a cricketer...the loser is English cricket.

An extraordinary batsman, who served England well for long, a flawed genius who acknowledged his flawed emotionalism and one who took severeal steps towards reconcillation....the super star who was made a martyr today by the bureaucrats who did a classic " cut their nose to spite their own face"......is how history would sum it up when dust settles over this issue.

Totally agree with ya.

"I'd like to take this opportunity to apologise to my team-mates, all England supporters and the ECB for the situation that has arisen over the last couple of months."

Apology excepted.

aww KP is apoligising- well apoligise with a century next game pal!! then your forgiven

mystiroakey wrote:aww KP is apoligising- well apoligise with a century next game pal!! then your forgiven

And hopefully his next game is the first test against India!

''So, Mr Compton, did you enjoy your England career?''

msp83 wrote:ECB yet again proving that they are a stupid bunch of jokers. Reintegration? 4 month contract? no clarity on selection? Idiots, absolute idiots!.
Think we haven't heard the last of the saga.

I think that saying the ECB are what you said they are is going too far... all international boards (I can't think of one that hasn't) have done stupid things in the last couple of years:

- BCCI and PCB: very long lists
- SLC: not paying players, constant changes of coach/ captain/ selection panel
- BCB: dysfunctional domestic game
- ZC: long list
- CA: over-commercialisation, strange selection decisions
- CSA: various controversies involving Gerald Majola
- WICB: long list
- NZC: constant sacking of coaches, neglect of set-up

Up to today I hadn't had too big an issue with their handling of KP-gate - KP did what he did and his position became untenable, in the immediate term and to the point at which he recognised the errors of his ways and apologised to all concerned.

But I reiterate my earlier comments that dragging this out for any longer is a ridiculous decision. KP needs the England team and we need him Time to kiss, make up and forget about it all

My guess is that this may be some sort of compromise - perhaps between the coach and captain being willing to take him back, some members of the team having some reservations about his return, and perhaps a feeling in the ECB upper echelons that he needs to be 'disciplined' in some way or other.

Glad to hear KP has now issued a satisfactory apology. I'll be happy to see him back , whether it be for India or NZ.
But I have no problem about a four month contract. If it sounds a bit like "probation" , well why not ? He was changing his mind every other week about his availability etc during last summer...can't expect everyone to be instantly rearranging the whole show the moment he says he is going to be a team player again...

Actually I do hope they get everything fully settled sooner rather than later so I won't have to confront all these tedious conspiracy allegations KP fan keeps spewing out by the hour

a good article in cricinfo:
the shocking questions are in bold....
the source of the problem is in red.

Near Term Future: in the reintergrattion process...the gang will harras him.......he will blow up again.......the integration director will declare...integration-failed...I told you.........if you don't listen to me...I will leave England and go...


http://www.espncricinfo.com/england/content/current/story/585364.html


England's Pietersen dilemma

Being tough on KP

The power struggle between the ECB and Kevin Pietersen about the value systems of English cricket will only have been justified if it results in a happy ending

David Hopps in Colombo

October 3, 2012



Giles Clarke and Kevin Pietersen declined to dig up the past during their press conference © Getty Images

Related Links

News : Giles Clarke and Kevin Pietersen statements
Those in charge of England cricket are convinced that Kevin Pietersen has been taught a lesson he will never forget as he returns to the England fold. In the words of the ECB chairman, Giles Clarke, he has one final chance to earn the forgiveness that is the very fabric of a civilised world.

As Clarke delivered his statement in a Colombo hotel, it sounded as if Pietersen had just been released from a lengthy prison sentence. Condign punishment had been exacted and it was now time to try to reintegrate him into "our society". It was an interesting choice of words. This power struggle, at its core, has been about the value systems of English cricket.

But what exactly did Pietersen do to incur England's wrath? On the grounds of confidentiality, that must remain unspoken. "We aren't here for archaeology," Clarke pronounced after it was asked of both men, perfectly properly, how Pietersen had got into this mess in the first place.

Archaeology was an appropriate image for the last few months, in which both Pietersen's career and England's World Twenty20 challenge have been in ruins.

At least England, and Pietersen, are digging themselves into a hole no longer. We have a framework in which we are told that both sides can move forward, a framework that Andy Flower, the team director, and the ECB board unanimously support. No one should doubt that Flower retains control and Pietersen is on probation.

It is Flower who is now in charge of the integration process, Flower who is in charge of suppressing the bad and seeking out the good. In this uneasy truce, England's team director has not lost one iota of his power - as Clarke made clear when he insisted as vehemently as he could muster that Flower will remain in his position until at least the end of the 2015 World Cup.

But it has taken nearly two months and, in that time, great damage has been done. England have lacked their most destructive batsman and arguably they failed to qualify for the World Twenty20 semi-finals as a result.

In a previous era, as Pietersen's relationship with the England dressing room became strained, there would probably have been a bit of a barney at the back of the Headingley pavilion. The following day, life would have resumed as something approaching normality and any black eye suffered by one of the protagonists would have been explained away as a ball that had reared up in the nets. It might not have achieved much, and it would certainly have not been very PC, but it would have been over quickly.

Nowadays, to move on - in a mutually constructive process naturally - it takes emotional apologies on YouTube, the mass interviewing of interested parties, involvement of agents, the to-ing and fro-ing of lawyers, emergency board meetings, reports, preliminary and final, "reintegration" processes stretching to several pages and who knows what else.

But what exactly did Pietersen do? If it has been accepted by both sides that he did not send derogatory text messages about Andrew Strauss to the South Africans, or reveal tactical secrets, what exactly did he do?

UMM let me see, let himself, his family, his friends, his captain, his team-mates, his fans, England supporters and his country down, that's all.

skyeman wrote:UMM let me see, let himself, his family, his friends, his captain, his team-mates, his fans, England supporters and his country down, that,s all.

Really...if that is how Flower and ECB are thinking...then they have brought a ticking time bomb in the dressing room...that will implode...again...and will cost them dear....maybe an ashes annihilation as the worst possible outcome

KP_fan wrote:

skyeman wrote:UMM let me see, let himself, his family, his friends, his captain, his team-mates, his fans, England supporters and his country down, that,s all.

Really...if that is how Flower and ECB are thinking...then they have brought a ticking time bomb in the dressing room...that will implode...again...and will cost them dear....maybe an ashes annihilation as the worst possible outcome

Who knows?, but it is how KP should be thinking, after all he did apologise to us all.

The thing is it wasn't only the texts - it was the retirement from one-day cricket (for reasons he lied about), the wanting to play IPL over Tests, the press conference he made at Headingley, the breakdown in his relationship with his teammates and finally the suggestion that he not only communicated with the opposition during a Test, but (whichever way you spin it) slagged off his teammates. When you add in his previous bust ups (in some cases he was in the right, it must be said) the picture becomes clearer.

His position quite simply became untenable for Lord's. You can't have a situation where a player doesn't respect the captain and coach, and the captain and coach can't trust him.

But on that time is a good healer - I expected KP to go into a rage, try to get everybody's sympathy and then go off around the world playing T20, but by committing himself to the England cause and apologising to everybody he has, in my opinion, turned the tables. It now becomes very difficult for England not to pick him, and rightly so.

Shelsey93 wrote:The thing is it wasn't only the texts - it was the retirement from one-day cricket (for reasons he lied about), the wanting to play IPL over Tests, the press conference he made at Headingley, the breakdown in his relationship with his teammates and finally the suggestion that he not only communicated with the opposition during a Test, but (whichever way you spin it) slagged off his teammates. When you add in his previous bust ups (in some cases he was in the right, it must be said) the picture becomes clearer.

His position quite simply became untenable for Lord's. You can't have a situation where a player doesn't respect the captain and coach, and the captain and coach can't trust him.

But on that time is a good healer - I expected KP to go into a rage, try to get everybody's sympathy and then go off around the world playing T20, but by committing himself to the England cause and apologising to everybody he has, in my opinion, turned the tables. It now becomes very difficult for England not to pick him, and rightly so.

If he has turned the tables...then ECB and Flower must stop this charade of...let's make an example of him and set a draconian example........and follow a prisoner like reintegration into normal human society.

They should have just moved on...with no public exemplary look we are still rubbing his nose......required.
Or if they didn't trust him...just leave him out...and also move on.

This what they are doing.....will implode in their face..........mark my words

Shelsey93 wrote:The thing is it wasn't only the texts - it was the retirement from one-day cricket (for reasons he lied about), the wanting to play IPL over Tests, the press conference he made at Headingley, the breakdown in his relationship with his teammates and finally the suggestion that he not only communicated with the opposition during a Test, but (whichever way you spin it) slagged off his teammates. When you add in his previous bust ups (in some cases he was in the right, it must be said) the picture becomes clearer.

His position quite simply became untenable for Lord's. You can't have a situation where a player doesn't respect the captain and coach, and the captain and coach can't trust him.

But on that time is a good healer - I expected KP to go into a rage, try to get everybody's sympathy and then go off around the world playing T20, but by committing himself to the England cause and apologising to everybody he has, in my opinion, turned the tables. It now becomes very difficult for England not to pick him, and rightly so.

What this says. I would add that I agree with alfie's point about the 4 months being a probation period. I don't buy into this reintegration claptrap. I see this as Pietersen being given a chance to prove his commitment and change in attitude; if he behaves impeccably during the camp then I expect him to make the India tour. And will be happy to see him there.

I won't be surprised if Flower would do everything possible to make life uncomfortable in that dressing room. He himself had acknowledged that there were issues of mismanagement on his part particularly with the twitter issue and so on. Would like to know what has he done eventually about that. Oh, but then its only the KP related matter that could be made available for the public. Any action on any other player, that has to be classified information, as making it public would affect national security!.

4 month contract and then he can bugger off to the IPL and leave England in the lurch for the New Zealand tour. Meek surrender by the ECB.

Opinions of experts

piersmorgan Piers Morgan
KP can play again once he's been through a 're-integration process'?? He's a cricketer, not a bloody astronaut. Flower's such a clown!


Dimi Mascarenhas, former Hampshire team-mate

KP is the best batsman we have got and I would like to see him playing in all forms of the game again. It is good they are coming to a resolution and he is back in the set up He was not difficult to manage and he was brilliant at Hampshire.



Jonathan Agnew


For KP: inquiry into Eng team cliques. Opportunity to hit 10000 test runs. 2 Ashes campaigns. IPL shop window open for when he retires.


Matthew Hoggard

When they reintegrate KP into the England fold will he have to wear a muzzle or do you think keeping him on a lead will do ? OTT

Piers morgan an expert-- hahaha

He is an expert but an expert on being and acting like a prized pri.k

Piers Morgan is a clown, but a far lesser one than the dimwits like the England coach who have come up with this reintegration nonsense!.

msp83 wrote:Piers Morgan is a clown, but a far lesser one than the dimwits like the England coach who have come up with this reintegration nonsense!.

Steady on. No-one is a bigger clown than Piers Morgan.

It's a trial period. They're quite common in professional workplaces, if someone doesn't shape up it makes it easier to ship them out.

Pete C (Kiwireddevil) wrote: It's a trial period. They're quite common in professional workplaces, if someone doesn't shape up it makes it easier to ship them out.

Hmm...does that apply to Graeme Swann ?
Did that apply to Graeme Swann ?

what swanny- what you on about. everyone gets on with him

mystiroakey wrote:what swanny- what you on about. everyone gets on with him

so obviously they don't count KP in everyone.....
see I told you they discriminate KP

As many of us have repeatedly said on this thread, the derogatory comments that Swann made on Samit Patel is out in the public domain, unlike the aligations against Kevin Pietersen. It certainly has to be considered double standards, and again it has always been like this with Pietersen.
But they had larger issues with KP, All this happy change room nonsense is a smokescreen created by Flower and co. KP's flip-flops on ODIs, his demand for a full IPL window were some of the core issues. Anyways He's out on parole for now.

here is a piece of news from guardian that is bound to drive spears throuhg the heart of Flower, Swann, etal...the gang

KP recieved ...hold your breath USD 2 Million for the commentary stint from the studios of ESPNSTAR.....before and inbetween the games....not even live on air

Ha ha Ha

he sat in the cool and made 2 Million dollars...while ECB and Flower saw their team huffing and puffing out of the super 8s....and being charged with not having KP......as the reason for the defeats

They wanted to hurt him by dropping .......instead they made him richer and hurt themselves

http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/blog/2012/oct/03/mutual-contempt-kevin-pietersen-comeback

On second throuhgts I think...and so thouhgt KP's advisors....probably..that a 4 month contract is better than a 1 year....

he will play the India series.......High Profile, good solid test cricket....

then there will be drama, shenanigans in the dressing room...... and he will walk out....take a break do some commentary, some BBPL, BDPL, IPL; SLPL, PPL......miss the NZ series in NZ and Eng...

then there will be hoopla, circus in the media.......the bigness of the ashes and relevance of KP towards winning th pride of the nation...and he will be back again to play some high profile ashes test cricket.

ECB and Flower have played into the hands of KP and his advisors...outsmarted, outwitted.....victims of inflated egos

Well, KPF and I agree on a lot of things, but not that last post!.

KP_fan wrote:here is a piece of news from guardian that is bound to drive spears throuhg the heart of Flower, Swann, etal...the gang

KP recieved ...hold your breath USD 2 Million for the commentary stint from the studios of ESPNSTAR.....before and inbetween the games....not even live on air

Ha ha Ha

he sat in the cool and made 2 Million dollars...while ECB and Flower saw their team huffing and puffing out of the super 8s....and being charged with not having KP......as the reason for the defeats

They wanted to hurt him by dropping .......instead they made him richer and hurt themselves

http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/blog/2012/oct/03/mutual-contempt-kevin-pietersen-comeback

There's some other interesting quotes in that article

...
Somewhere along the line, the nature of the dispute has become twisted, so that by the end of the season, Pietersen was being portrayed in some quarters as a wronged party on a personal crusade against vengeful employers and bullying team members.

The England team management, specifically Andy Flower and Andrew Strauss, has been characterised as weak and unprofessional, unable to handle an "awkward" character, and the administrators as incompetent. All of which is nonsense, for if there have been faults on that side – and Flower admits that some things might have been handled differently – then they fall well short of those exhibited by Pietersen.

It might be worth remembering the chronology of this. For three years, the supposedly incompetent management team had actually handled Pietersen and his ego, not to mention others that inhabited the dressing room, very well. It is what made them the success they have been. Then in May, Pietersen announced to Flower, without discussion or equivocation, that he had retired from one-day cricket but that he intended to continue playing Test matches and T20 internationals, although he wanted a say in which ones he actually did play in.

It was pointed out to him that, under a clause in the contract he had signed – one inserted precisely to prevent the sort of situation that Pietersen was creating – he could not retire from one form of limited-overs cricket without doing so from the other. It was simply non-negotiable: an exception for Pietersen meant an exception for anyone else who wanted it, and the ECB, wishing to preserve the integrity of 50-over international cricket and its desire to compete strongly in the 2015 World Cup, is not prepared to do that.

Pietersen played Test cricket during the summer, culminating in his memorable Headingley innings, in the aftermath of which he gave a series of unfathomably dumb self-serving interviews which so angered Strauss, who, waiting in the wings, overheard one of them, that he felt unable to participate in a joint press conference.

... The final breakdown, though, came with the revelation (instigated by the South Africans, who throughout the series, to their own end and his discomfit, played beautifully Pietersen's disaffection with the team) that he had been sending to some opposition players BlackBerry messages unflattering to Strauss and the team. He is now said to be at loggerheads with the South Africans.

There is some growing up to do on both sides. We know that lawyers have been involved, to try to get round supposed threats of taking million-pound action for unfair dismissal and breach of contract should he not gain a new contract. According to Alexander Milner-Smith, employment associate in the Sports Group at Lewis Silkin LLP, such a move would have been "both extremely unlikely and fundamentally lacks legal sense and substance", and that the ECB would have a stronger case, although financially unprofitable, for suing him for breach of contract instead. Rather it was presumably to ensure that he will not be able to attempt yet another volte-face without considerable penalty.

ECB wanting to ensure the integrity of the 50 over format has to be the joke of the year. How many 50 over matches did the counties play in the last season??

msp83 wrote:ECB wanting to ensure the integrity of the 50 over format has to be the joke of the year. How many 50 over matches did the counties play in the last season??

Point taken

The England team and ECB aren't quite the same thing though - I'm sure Flower/ Cook and co would rather see a 50-over competition.

ODIs must be defended, not least because they continue to attract full houses - the spectators are evidently interested, and so England should reflect that by taking measures to ensure that the spectators remain interested, and that the team is protected.

I would like to see a 50-over format return to the domestic game and hopefully that will happen from 2014. The current format is a bit of a compromise, and makes for a fairly drab competition.

Pete C (Kiwireddevil) wrote: There's some other interesting quotes in that article

I quoted the fact part....rest are all opinions and analysis.....but let's look at them also in a true or false way...from my POV

...
Somewhere along the line, the nature of the dispute has become twisted, so that by the end of the season, Pietersen was being portrayed in some quarters as a wronged party on a personal crusade against vengeful employers and bullying team members.

True

The England team management, specifically Andy Flower and Andrew Strauss, has been characterised as weak and unprofessional, unable to handle an "awkward" character, and the administrators as incompetent.

True

All of which is nonsense,

false

for if there have been faults on that side – and Flower admits that some things might have been handled differently – then they fall well short of those exhibited by Pietersen.

True

It might be worth remembering the chronology of this.

rest is all chronological summary of old events

KP_fan wrote:

Pete C (Kiwireddevil) wrote: There's some other interesting quotes in that article

I quoted the fact part....rest are all opinions and analysis.....but let's look at them also in a true or false way...from my POV

...
Somewhere along the line, the nature of the dispute has become twisted, so that by the end of the season, Pietersen was being portrayed in some quarters as a wronged party on a personal crusade against vengeful employers and bullying team members.

True

The England team management, specifically Andy Flower and Andrew Strauss, has been characterised as weak and unprofessional, unable to handle an "awkward" character, and the administrators as incompetent.

True

All of which is nonsense,

false

for if there have been faults on that side – and Flower admits that some things might have been handled differently – then they fall well short of those exhibited by Pietersen.

True

It might be worth remembering the chronology of this.

rest is all chronological summary of old events

True. Except for the expert legal opinion on KP's likely chances of winning a law suit.

Alan Tyers of cricinfo captures the entire nonsense of Reintegration for what it means!.





The "reintegration of Kevin Pietersen into the group", aside from making him sound like an exotic zoo creature that has been bullied by rival males for having an intimidatingly gaudy plumage*, has necessitated some concessions and commitments on all sides. Like the following:

Kevin has agreed to…
… nod politely and pretend to be interested when senior professionals express concern about important matters of squad harmony, such as the vital question of who gets first go on the team PlayStation after nap time.

… not walk around in favourite t-shirt that carries the message "Moores… Strauss… You're next, buddy".

… not laugh at team-mates about World Twenty20 efforts or wave wads of money he got from commentary duties while they were gibbering helplessly in face of Harbhajan, etc.

… switch from Blackberry to iPhone.

Stuart has agreed to…
… continue to focus on taking the positives going forward.

… not defriend anybody's likes or direct message their tweet profiles or whatever the hell it is these sporting enforcers get up to in their spare time.

Jimmy has agreed to…
… not accuse Kevin of cashing in on his England status for personal financial gain; read more about this in Jimmy's book, available in all good bookshops for £19.99.

Swanny has agreed to…
… not making off-putting farting noises when Kevin is getting ready to face a ball in the nets.

Graeme Smith has agreed to…
… cackle with glee at a job well done.

Andy has agreed to…
… choose words extremely carefully in interviews, stare intensely, not give in to temptation to throttle any of the little sods.

Giles has agreed to…
… acknowledge that his magnificent handling of this situation has allowed a resolution to occur, and to accept the humble gratitude and adoration of his public.

* Actually this is almost exactly what has happened.

http://www.espncricinfo.com/page2/content/story/585473.html

alen tyres is hilarious

David Collier now claims that KP was provoked into sending those SMSs by some SA players.
http://www.espncricinfo.com/england/content/current/story/585904.html

msp83 wrote:David Collier now claims that KP was provoked into sending those SMSs by some SA players.
http://www.espncricinfo.com/england/content/current/story/585904.html

and clever Flower fell a lame duck to this outrageous startegy of the SA .......instead of protectig his own player........fired him

Or more likely Collier just talking off his back side

More sensible stuff from Stuart Broad. He admits it was disappointing to miss out on KP's services during the World T-20, and also adds that Pietersen being a great cricketer, there should be no problem welcoming him back.
http://www.espncricinfo.com/england/content/current/story/586291.html

msp83 wrote:More sensible stuff from Stuart Broad. He admits it was disappointing to miss out on KP's services during the World T-20, and also adds that Pietersen being a great cricketer, there should be no problem welcoming him back.
http://www.espncricinfo.com/england/content/current/story/586291.html

The horse has bolted and the next world cup is after 2 years

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/cricket/19923248

England cannot be No.1 without Pietersen...concludes Anderson above

Swann is the problem. he continues to spout anti KP propoganda. He's the one how should be fired. He's trouble.

nah... dont buy it! swanny is a legend- but then so is kp. Both are wrongons occasionally though. but both need to be in the england team- there are by far the best two players we have

Flower's 'private' disciplining stuff doesn't seem to be working with Swanny. But he's a superb cricketer, England's best spinner, and not a 'Type' cricketer. He can have his views, but find ways to play with those who are not on top of his christmas cards list. And perhaps Mr coach should spend some time working on that.

I think Swann's persona has to some extent come unstuck of late - when he was taking 5-fers every time he took to the field it was great, but with the current issues he doesn't come across all that brilliantly all the time.

Having said that I can't remember him saying much about KP at all.

http://www.espncricinfo.com/england/content/current/story/586704.html

and now David Collier apologises to CSA.......how many instances of putting their foot in their mouth will ECB face....in trying to win the war of egos vs KP

KP_fan wrote:http://www.espncricinfo.com/england/content/current/story/586704.html

and now David Collier apologises to CSA.......how many instances of putting their foot in their mouth will ECB face....in trying to win the war of egos vs KP

Talk about being in a no-win situation there - if they believe KP, they cheese off the Saffas, and vice versa ...

Correct response would have been to have a quiet word to the Saffas at the next ICC meeting and say "sorry, but we have to back our man"

^ yeah I am amazed on how a lot of this drama is being played in the public.

as CSA had pointed out if ECB / Collier had any reasons to be unhappy...they could have had a private word with South Africans.

But because Collier accused in front of media...I think CSA must have demanded an apology in the media.

maan...what about using tact and Diplomacy....England were pioneers if not inventors of international diplomacy

Prove that you are sorry is the mantra being given to KP by ex senior Strauss and current seniors in what has turned to be a Flower brewed and backed, but failed mutiny against KP

Prove you're sorry: Actions not apologies key to Pietersen return warns Strauss

http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/cricket/kevin-pietersen-warned-actions-not-1380989

The only interesting bit in that from Strauss is the admission that KP isn't the only one who made mistakes.
The longer this reintegration drama carries on, the greater will be the damages.