PGA Tour: Up the (Tobacco) Road to Greensboro: Notes from the Ballwasher
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PGA Tour: Up the (Tobacco) Road to Greensboro: Notes from the Ballwasher
First topic message reminder :
1).PGA Championship.
Rory McIlroy.
Simply Magnificent.
2).PGA Championship.
David Lynn.
Second?
In your first ever event in the United States?
You've got to be sh1tting me.
Invite to the 2013 Masters.
Invite to the 2013 PGA Championship.
Very good chances of earning automatic exemption to the "Opens".
3).PGA Championship.
Seven of the Top Ten are Europeans, and they'll all be back, exempt, next year.
The Top 4 and ties will be invited to the 2013 Masters. Carl Pettersson (edit: already exempt!) joins David Lynn of those not otherwise exempt who'll be receiving that envelope from Billy Payne.
4).PGA Championship.
And the Top 15 and ties will be invited to the 2013 PGA Championship at Oak Hill. Those not already exempt include Lynn, Poulter, Pettersson, Adams, Donaldson, Hanson, Stricker, Curtis, Clark, Ogilvy and Scott.
5).Kiawah Island's Ocean Course.
The course received mixed receptions from players (mostly positive) and media (a lot of it negative). Most of the negatives focussed on transportation logistics and the supposed absurdity of playing a windswept oceanside course with raised greens and fairways, but few run-up options. Exhibit A; Friday.
Was it significant that only seven of the leading 17 golfers were American?
Does it speak to a lack of creativity that many have long criticised the PGA Tour players for??
However well the course stood up to a variety of conditions and wind directions, I'd be surprised to see the PGA return their Championship here anytime soon.
6).And who's this Blake Adams fellow who finished 7th?
Adams has played The Players, US Open and PGA Championship this year and contended to some extent in all three. Almost 37 and only on Tour for three years, Adams is another of the multi-sport athletes, basketball and baseball in his case, who's focussed on golf and graduated through the mini-tours to PGA Tour success. He's another of the Tour's walking wounded but has become a Tour "iron man"; no wins but a runner up to Jason Day (remember him?) at the 2010 Byron Nelson, when he screwed up the final hole worse than Day did.
Well worth bearing in mind next time the Tour stops at a course that rewards strategic play and pars.
7).Carl Pettersson has returned to his self-described "ten beers and a pint of ice cream" diet after losing a ton of weight and his golf swing a few years ago. Most significantly this week is his work as a Board Member of the Tour's Greensboro tournament, helping to ensure that one of the oldest stops on Tour has not only maintained its place on the calendar, arguably strengthened its position.
A new sponsor, Wyndham Hotels and Resorts, and a new (old) course, Sedgefield Country Club, a Donald Ross original, have combined to elevate the event which now holds an interesting position with many of the field striving for FedEx participation or position.
8).Sam Snead won "Greensboro" EIGHT times, but last year's winner was a young American who'd been showing tons of promise, had been desperately unlucky not to win in New Orleans, and was a local lad to boot. Guy called Webb Simpson. He's back with an interesting field and some "interesting" tee times:
Simpson, Love, Pettersson. Local heroes.
Haas, Dufner, Snedeker. Ryder Cup player and two wannabe Captain's picks.
Appleby, Villegas, Glover. All outside the Fed Ex Play-Off places.
Schwartzel, Garcia, Watney. Disappointing seasons all.
9).European representation includes Christian, Davis, Jamie Donaldson, Knox and Greg Owen (good e.w. chance again this week?); Blixt, Chopra, Karlsson, Pettersson and Stenson; Colsaerts and Garcia (unlucky loser in a 2009 play-off here to Ryan Moore). Significant week for many of them:
Knox, Chopra, Karlsson all need big finishes to assist them in quest to retain Tour cards.
Blixt (back from a long injury absence), Christian, Garcia and Stenson will all qualify for The Barclays, but need good finishes this next fortnight to progress to the Deutsche Bank.
Colsaerts and Garcia are vying for Ryder Cup qualification.
10).In a sign of the times, Bud Cauley has just overtaken Arnold Palmer in the career earnings list;
Marc Leishman has recently passed Jack Nicklaus;
And Rory McIlroy's next top three finish will push him past Tom Watson!
1).PGA Championship.
Rory McIlroy.
Simply Magnificent.
2).PGA Championship.
David Lynn.
Second?
In your first ever event in the United States?
You've got to be sh1tting me.
Invite to the 2013 Masters.
Invite to the 2013 PGA Championship.
Very good chances of earning automatic exemption to the "Opens".
3).PGA Championship.
Seven of the Top Ten are Europeans, and they'll all be back, exempt, next year.
The Top 4 and ties will be invited to the 2013 Masters. Carl Pettersson (edit: already exempt!) joins David Lynn of those not otherwise exempt who'll be receiving that envelope from Billy Payne.
4).PGA Championship.
And the Top 15 and ties will be invited to the 2013 PGA Championship at Oak Hill. Those not already exempt include Lynn, Poulter, Pettersson, Adams, Donaldson, Hanson, Stricker, Curtis, Clark, Ogilvy and Scott.
5).Kiawah Island's Ocean Course.
The course received mixed receptions from players (mostly positive) and media (a lot of it negative). Most of the negatives focussed on transportation logistics and the supposed absurdity of playing a windswept oceanside course with raised greens and fairways, but few run-up options. Exhibit A; Friday.
Was it significant that only seven of the leading 17 golfers were American?
Does it speak to a lack of creativity that many have long criticised the PGA Tour players for??
However well the course stood up to a variety of conditions and wind directions, I'd be surprised to see the PGA return their Championship here anytime soon.
6).And who's this Blake Adams fellow who finished 7th?
Adams has played The Players, US Open and PGA Championship this year and contended to some extent in all three. Almost 37 and only on Tour for three years, Adams is another of the multi-sport athletes, basketball and baseball in his case, who's focussed on golf and graduated through the mini-tours to PGA Tour success. He's another of the Tour's walking wounded but has become a Tour "iron man"; no wins but a runner up to Jason Day (remember him?) at the 2010 Byron Nelson, when he screwed up the final hole worse than Day did.
Well worth bearing in mind next time the Tour stops at a course that rewards strategic play and pars.
7).Carl Pettersson has returned to his self-described "ten beers and a pint of ice cream" diet after losing a ton of weight and his golf swing a few years ago. Most significantly this week is his work as a Board Member of the Tour's Greensboro tournament, helping to ensure that one of the oldest stops on Tour has not only maintained its place on the calendar, arguably strengthened its position.
A new sponsor, Wyndham Hotels and Resorts, and a new (old) course, Sedgefield Country Club, a Donald Ross original, have combined to elevate the event which now holds an interesting position with many of the field striving for FedEx participation or position.
8).Sam Snead won "Greensboro" EIGHT times, but last year's winner was a young American who'd been showing tons of promise, had been desperately unlucky not to win in New Orleans, and was a local lad to boot. Guy called Webb Simpson. He's back with an interesting field and some "interesting" tee times:
Simpson, Love, Pettersson. Local heroes.
Haas, Dufner, Snedeker. Ryder Cup player and two wannabe Captain's picks.
Appleby, Villegas, Glover. All outside the Fed Ex Play-Off places.
Schwartzel, Garcia, Watney. Disappointing seasons all.
9).European representation includes Christian, Davis, Jamie Donaldson, Knox and Greg Owen (good e.w. chance again this week?); Blixt, Chopra, Karlsson, Pettersson and Stenson; Colsaerts and Garcia (unlucky loser in a 2009 play-off here to Ryan Moore). Significant week for many of them:
Knox, Chopra, Karlsson all need big finishes to assist them in quest to retain Tour cards.
Blixt (back from a long injury absence), Christian, Garcia and Stenson will all qualify for The Barclays, but need good finishes this next fortnight to progress to the Deutsche Bank.
Colsaerts and Garcia are vying for Ryder Cup qualification.
10).In a sign of the times, Bud Cauley has just overtaken Arnold Palmer in the career earnings list;
Marc Leishman has recently passed Jack Nicklaus;
And Rory McIlroy's next top three finish will push him past Tom Watson!
Last edited by kwinigolfer on Tue Aug 14, 2012 10:33 pm; edited 2 times in total
kwinigolfer- Posts : 26476
Join date : 2011-05-18
Location : Vermont
Re: PGA Tour: Up the (Tobacco) Road to Greensboro: Notes from the Ballwasher
Pretty stout leaderboard with Pettersson, Clark, Simpson and Garcia tied at the top.
And a rare appearance in the top ten (tho' second in 3 weeks after going toptenless for 6 months) for Justin Leonard who finished third here in 2010. Another 64 Sunday might just be enough for him to reach the Play-Offs, though it would be touch and go.
And a rare appearance in the top ten (tho' second in 3 weeks after going toptenless for 6 months) for Justin Leonard who finished third here in 2010. Another 64 Sunday might just be enough for him to reach the Play-Offs, though it would be touch and go.
kwinigolfer- Posts : 26476
Join date : 2011-05-18
Location : Vermont
Re: PGA Tour: Up the (Tobacco) Road to Greensboro: Notes from the Ballwasher
Sergio and Tim are enjoying eachother's company out there.
Great leaderboard indeed, just hoping that Nicolas will get it back on track before the end of the round...
Interesting to see that Dufff is skiping the Barclays but he's planning to head down under to West Australia with King Charl in October...
Great leaderboard indeed, just hoping that Nicolas will get it back on track before the end of the round...
Interesting to see that Dufff is skiping the Barclays but he's planning to head down under to West Australia with King Charl in October...
princedracula- Posts : 3258
Join date : 2011-06-26
Re: PGA Tour: Up the (Tobacco) Road to Greensboro: Notes from the Ballwasher
Hope the winner is one among Sergio and Tim Clark, and not Webb S.
Leff- Posts : 1169
Join date : 2011-09-11
Location : USA
Re: PGA Tour: Up the (Tobacco) Road to Greensboro: Notes from the Ballwasher
pd,
Maybe the Duffmeister will "do" Australia for a delayed moneyhoon . . . .
It's a benefit week for guys from the south-east, plus Sergio who's runner-upped here.
Bud Cauley looks like he forgot to wear his bicycle clips, look at those strides!
Colsaerts looks like he's had putting troubles, but not completely out of it.
Maybe the Duffmeister will "do" Australia for a delayed moneyhoon . . . .
It's a benefit week for guys from the south-east, plus Sergio who's runner-upped here.
Bud Cauley looks like he forgot to wear his bicycle clips, look at those strides!
Colsaerts looks like he's had putting troubles, but not completely out of it.
kwinigolfer- Posts : 26476
Join date : 2011-05-18
Location : Vermont
Re: PGA Tour: Up the (Tobacco) Road to Greensboro: Notes from the Ballwasher
Raining in Greensboro right now and we could be in for an unseasonably cool and wet day.
The course will play longer, the rough will be thicker, but the greens will soften up.
There are thunderstorms one hundred miles to the south-west and if they come through Greensboro, there'll be a lengthy delay to the beginning of Sunday's action.
No sign of any adjustment to tee-times so would think the golfers (and especially the caddies) are in for a long, miserable day. Patience, Sergio, patience.
The course will play longer, the rough will be thicker, but the greens will soften up.
There are thunderstorms one hundred miles to the south-west and if they come through Greensboro, there'll be a lengthy delay to the beginning of Sunday's action.
No sign of any adjustment to tee-times so would think the golfers (and especially the caddies) are in for a long, miserable day. Patience, Sergio, patience.
kwinigolfer- Posts : 26476
Join date : 2011-05-18
Location : Vermont
Re: PGA Tour: Up the (Tobacco) Road to Greensboro: Notes from the Ballwasher
Would i be right in saying that nither Garcia, Poulter or Kaymer playing next week at Gleneagles?
That would mean Kaymer guaranteed to stay ahead of Poulter and almost certainly in the team barring Garcia moving past him & heroics from Coelsaerts next week....................
That would mean Kaymer guaranteed to stay ahead of Poulter and almost certainly in the team barring Garcia moving past him & heroics from Coelsaerts next week....................
John Cregan- Posts : 1834
Join date : 2011-03-24
Age : 50
Location : Limerick, Ireland
Re: PGA Tour: Up the (Tobacco) Road to Greensboro: Notes from the Ballwasher
Hi John,
Sure Sergio and Poults are playing The Barclays, my understanding with Kaymer is that he was taking three weeks' break.
Colsaerts could have blown his chance yesterday, hitting the ball a mile (leads in driving distance) but a dodgy putter.
And they've sent Paul Casey out in the rain, heavier rain on the doorstep and possibly thunderbolts and lightning, very, very frightening.
Sure Sergio and Poults are playing The Barclays, my understanding with Kaymer is that he was taking three weeks' break.
Colsaerts could have blown his chance yesterday, hitting the ball a mile (leads in driving distance) but a dodgy putter.
And they've sent Paul Casey out in the rain, heavier rain on the doorstep and possibly thunderbolts and lightning, very, very frightening.
kwinigolfer- Posts : 26476
Join date : 2011-05-18
Location : Vermont
Re: PGA Tour: Up the (Tobacco) Road to Greensboro: Notes from the Ballwasher
Whatever happens with the weather, Casey, playing as a single, is trying hard to ensure it doesn't affect him. Halfway through his front nine in half an hour, on course for a two-hour round.
Another who has fallen on hard times his Lucas Glover. Must have looked forward to his return to Bethpage next week, but back on the injured list as he continues struggles with knee problems.
Another who has fallen on hard times his Lucas Glover. Must have looked forward to his return to Bethpage next week, but back on the injured list as he continues struggles with knee problems.
kwinigolfer- Posts : 26476
Join date : 2011-05-18
Location : Vermont
Re: PGA Tour: Up the (Tobacco) Road to Greensboro: Notes from the Ballwasher
I have a business meeting in Research Triangle Park NC tomorrow morning. RTP is about 50 miles from Greensboro. I arrived here late last night. There was heavy rain last night and early morning. It's gloomy with dark clouds. I guess Greensboro has the same weather.
Tough day ahead for the bubble boys - YE Yang, Bobby Gates, Brendan Steele, Tim Herron, Chez Reavie, David Mathis, and Jerry Kelly.
Tough day ahead for the bubble boys - YE Yang, Bobby Gates, Brendan Steele, Tim Herron, Chez Reavie, David Mathis, and Jerry Kelly.
Leff- Posts : 1169
Join date : 2011-09-11
Location : USA
Re: PGA Tour: Up the (Tobacco) Road to Greensboro: Notes from the Ballwasher
Leff,
I think Greensboro has lucked out. Steady rain, inch so far, but the incendiary stuff has drifted south towards you!
Another hour of precip and then play should have plain sailing.
Jerry Kelly should survive another week, but miracles required from the rest you mention, Justin Leonard as well.
I think Greensboro has lucked out. Steady rain, inch so far, but the incendiary stuff has drifted south towards you!
Another hour of precip and then play should have plain sailing.
Jerry Kelly should survive another week, but miracles required from the rest you mention, Justin Leonard as well.
kwinigolfer- Posts : 26476
Join date : 2011-05-18
Location : Vermont
Re: PGA Tour: Up the (Tobacco) Road to Greensboro: Notes from the Ballwasher
It's raining cats and dogs here in RTP.
Leff- Posts : 1169
Join date : 2011-09-11
Location : USA
Re: PGA Tour: Up the (Tobacco) Road to Greensboro: Notes from the Ballwasher
Kwini and all... I still think many of you are hung up in bemoaning the changes in PGAT Q-school and the lost opportunities for foreign players... but you're failing to recognize the signifigance of the new opportunities created.
Under the current system, most of the Euro's who would attempt qualifying would be exempt into at least 2nd stage. Effectively, only those in the top-50 OWGR would be exempt into Final stage.
For those players exempt into 2nd stage, they in effect are making a minimum 3 week (more likely 4 week) committment to be in the states from Mid to early Nov to early Dec.
So let's say I'm Jamie Donaldson ranked #57 and exempt into 2nd stage and advance through that. That means for me to go to Q-school... I have to given up Singapore, Hong Kong and the Dubai final. Oh... and ONE bad week in either stage and I'm out.
Now let's say I'm Colsaerts and exempt into final stage. Sure I can play Dubai, then hop a jet to Florida to get in practice rounds on two courses for a Wednesday start in a 6 round event. I may be the 35th best player in the world... but serioulsy... good chance I'm gonna be gassed for at least the first couple of rounds in the final... and I've GOT to finish top-25.
Now let's look at the new system.
If I'm a Euro, and assuming I don't get special temporary membership... I'm gonna need about $250K in non-member earnings to get in the top-200 and eligible for the playoffs. So right now... Lynn and Hanson are already set for PGAT membership via STM if they want it (we know Hanson does) Colsarts and Aiken would be in the playoffs... and Donaldson will be too unless he DQ's or WD's today in GB. And let's not forget that the WGC-HSBC becomes official earnings next year... so that's another common co-sanctioned event a non-member has available to get inside top-200.
So if I'm Donaldson ... I still have to make a minimum 3 week committment in September. But I'm a good player... and I have to believe that my chances of actually gaining a card is much better in a 3 event series than it is in facing a knockout 2nd stage and then I still MUST have a great week in the final. And if I'm Colsearts, I have to believe my talent has a better chance of winning out over 3 weeks than one all or nothing week of 6 rounds on a couple of courses that may or may not favor my game.
In Q-school... if I play just decent in a 2nd stage or final... I'm out. If I play good, but not great, I probably advance from 2nd stage, but likely don't make top-25 in the final.
But in the 3 event playoffs I can "probably":
A. play DECENT in 3 events and get a card,
B. play GOOD in 2 events and get a card.
C. play GREAT in 1 event and get a card.
Under the current system, most of the Euro's who would attempt qualifying would be exempt into at least 2nd stage. Effectively, only those in the top-50 OWGR would be exempt into Final stage.
For those players exempt into 2nd stage, they in effect are making a minimum 3 week (more likely 4 week) committment to be in the states from Mid to early Nov to early Dec.
So let's say I'm Jamie Donaldson ranked #57 and exempt into 2nd stage and advance through that. That means for me to go to Q-school... I have to given up Singapore, Hong Kong and the Dubai final. Oh... and ONE bad week in either stage and I'm out.
Now let's say I'm Colsaerts and exempt into final stage. Sure I can play Dubai, then hop a jet to Florida to get in practice rounds on two courses for a Wednesday start in a 6 round event. I may be the 35th best player in the world... but serioulsy... good chance I'm gonna be gassed for at least the first couple of rounds in the final... and I've GOT to finish top-25.
Now let's look at the new system.
If I'm a Euro, and assuming I don't get special temporary membership... I'm gonna need about $250K in non-member earnings to get in the top-200 and eligible for the playoffs. So right now... Lynn and Hanson are already set for PGAT membership via STM if they want it (we know Hanson does) Colsarts and Aiken would be in the playoffs... and Donaldson will be too unless he DQ's or WD's today in GB. And let's not forget that the WGC-HSBC becomes official earnings next year... so that's another common co-sanctioned event a non-member has available to get inside top-200.
So if I'm Donaldson ... I still have to make a minimum 3 week committment in September. But I'm a good player... and I have to believe that my chances of actually gaining a card is much better in a 3 event series than it is in facing a knockout 2nd stage and then I still MUST have a great week in the final. And if I'm Colsearts, I have to believe my talent has a better chance of winning out over 3 weeks than one all or nothing week of 6 rounds on a couple of courses that may or may not favor my game.
In Q-school... if I play just decent in a 2nd stage or final... I'm out. If I play good, but not great, I probably advance from 2nd stage, but likely don't make top-25 in the final.
But in the 3 event playoffs I can "probably":
A. play DECENT in 3 events and get a card,
B. play GOOD in 2 events and get a card.
C. play GREAT in 1 event and get a card.
robopz- Posts : 3604
Join date : 2012-04-23
Location : Texas
Re: PGA Tour: Up the (Tobacco) Road to Greensboro: Notes from the Ballwasher
Lots of great points there robo; must admit, any qualms I might have about the new arrangement are not directed at the level of player (well, Lynn before his PGA breakthrough!) who, once they're in the Top 100, can see their roadmap towards qualification pretty clearly.
My reservations are for the next level, though to be quite honest I'm pretty much past it!, especially as they are also the level who non-partisan pragmatists might say could use a year web.comming! I think Timmy F has it just how he wants it!
Looks like Leff has all the really filthy weather this morning and things in Greensboro should start drying up by noon-time.
Won't help Casey who has slowed his quickmarch towards his courtesy car - a pair of sevens will do that.
Scores not quite as low as the first three rounds, so far anyway.
My reservations are for the next level, though to be quite honest I'm pretty much past it!, especially as they are also the level who non-partisan pragmatists might say could use a year web.comming! I think Timmy F has it just how he wants it!
Looks like Leff has all the really filthy weather this morning and things in Greensboro should start drying up by noon-time.
Won't help Casey who has slowed his quickmarch towards his courtesy car - a pair of sevens will do that.
Scores not quite as low as the first three rounds, so far anyway.
kwinigolfer- Posts : 26476
Join date : 2011-05-18
Location : Vermont
Re: PGA Tour: Up the (Tobacco) Road to Greensboro: Notes from the Ballwasher
Sad sight to see Camilo struggling to the extent he is. Close to the top of the World four years ago, but whither his career now?
kwinigolfer- Posts : 26476
Join date : 2011-05-18
Location : Vermont
Re: PGA Tour: Up the (Tobacco) Road to Greensboro: Notes from the Ballwasher
On that point we agree. The PGAT is doing nothing different than any enterprise should do... attract and develop the best talent they possibly can. If I'm a PGAT fan... I got to love the way Finchem works things. He keeps cool and calm through issues, and when his hand is forced, no knee-jerk actions, instead he reacts with reasoned consideration on how best to deal with the issue and it's long term ramifications.kwinigolfer wrote:I think Timmy F has it just how he wants it!
Take when Tiger was in the dumps and Chubby was pulling his little power play and puffery, and the Euro Tour had exclusives on the top 3 players in the world... and all that talk about the balance of power shifting. No panic in Ponte Vedra... instead a calculated plan to maximize it's assets and overcome the issues. And while I may not be privy to the details of how all this new playoff situation developed... It becomes more obvious every day it wasn't just about attracting a sponsor for the junior circuit... it was to help insure the BEST players from around the world have access and are welcomed on the PGAT.
Now if I happened to office in Wentworth... I might not be all that excited about Timmy's efficiency... understandably...
robopz- Posts : 3604
Join date : 2012-04-23
Location : Texas
Re: PGA Tour: Up the (Tobacco) Road to Greensboro: Notes from the Ballwasher
Very clever man that Timmy . . . . . . . !
Completely agree with your summary; plenty of small things about his reign that I loathe, but in terms of providing (almost) the best possible product for his constituency I'd give him top marks.
Intensely dislike his m.o. sometimes but his results speak for themselves.
Wonder what the portents for the Simpson family are today? Dowd has issued a red card and awarded two penalties, Webb just one penalty and turned his back on a hint of offside. 45 minutes to catch up Dowd.
Completely agree with your summary; plenty of small things about his reign that I loathe, but in terms of providing (almost) the best possible product for his constituency I'd give him top marks.
Intensely dislike his m.o. sometimes but his results speak for themselves.
Wonder what the portents for the Simpson family are today? Dowd has issued a red card and awarded two penalties, Webb just one penalty and turned his back on a hint of offside. 45 minutes to catch up Dowd.
kwinigolfer- Posts : 26476
Join date : 2011-05-18
Location : Vermont
Re: PGA Tour: Up the (Tobacco) Road to Greensboro: Notes from the Ballwasher
Robo,
What we have is a marginally better system for Donaldson and a couple of others who have had good years in the majors. The problem is there's literally dozens of other players in Europe for whom the system becomes far worse. As Kwini says it's the level below the top 50/top 100 players who are in trouble...
Lets look at what normally happens at the moment:
To be honest relatively few Europeans each year actually try out Q-school: I take a particular interests in European players playing in the states, and Q-school stage 2 usually gets about 5-10 guys who are regular or semi-regular on the ET (in addition to minor Euro players who got through first stage). There's never usually more than one or two who join only at final stage, if that. Guys who've made regular appearances include Lafeber, Garcia-Heredia, Pablo Martin, among others.
So at the moment, all the ET guys have a chance of getting on the PGA tour, regardless of whether they've had a good year, an average one or a poor one... for example Canizares, Ferrie and Hansen all came through Q-school after their most successful Euro seasons, whereas Chopra and Bjornstad lost their Euro cards then promptly gained PGA ones. But instead of there being the opportunity for all these guys, there's now only going to be an (easier) pathway for the one or two per year who play well in the majors - if you class, say, positions 30-100 in the R2D as solid tour players, probably only 3% of those each year would even get the chance to progress to the PGA Tour, whereas currently 100% do, if they choose to pursue it.
And of course the players in that 3% who get the chance, might not be the same players who are keen to play stateside anyway. History shows that internationals who make the effort to come through Q-school, like Pettersson and Davis, are usually more committed to the PGA Tour than those who get their card via non-member earnings, such as Poulter, Casey etc.
I need to stress, I don't particularly blame the Tour for changing it at all, I think it's probably a sensible thing to do, if you look at it from a protectionist point of view. But appreciating their reasoning doesn't mean that, as a Euro fan, I have to like the decision! And though they're perfectly entitled to make the changes, I do think it's a bit disingenuous to suggest, like Goydos and others have done, that it's actually opening things up for internationals. Yes the earnings route has been made a little bit easier, but that's only really viable for the elite ET players, and most of those have found in the past that they eventually get a PGA card anyway, the way Poulter, Rose, Harrington, Casey, Sergio etc have done. And for everyone else, it's definitely not opening things up at all.
What we have is a marginally better system for Donaldson and a couple of others who have had good years in the majors. The problem is there's literally dozens of other players in Europe for whom the system becomes far worse. As Kwini says it's the level below the top 50/top 100 players who are in trouble...
Lets look at what normally happens at the moment:
To be honest relatively few Europeans each year actually try out Q-school: I take a particular interests in European players playing in the states, and Q-school stage 2 usually gets about 5-10 guys who are regular or semi-regular on the ET (in addition to minor Euro players who got through first stage). There's never usually more than one or two who join only at final stage, if that. Guys who've made regular appearances include Lafeber, Garcia-Heredia, Pablo Martin, among others.
So at the moment, all the ET guys have a chance of getting on the PGA tour, regardless of whether they've had a good year, an average one or a poor one... for example Canizares, Ferrie and Hansen all came through Q-school after their most successful Euro seasons, whereas Chopra and Bjornstad lost their Euro cards then promptly gained PGA ones. But instead of there being the opportunity for all these guys, there's now only going to be an (easier) pathway for the one or two per year who play well in the majors - if you class, say, positions 30-100 in the R2D as solid tour players, probably only 3% of those each year would even get the chance to progress to the PGA Tour, whereas currently 100% do, if they choose to pursue it.
And of course the players in that 3% who get the chance, might not be the same players who are keen to play stateside anyway. History shows that internationals who make the effort to come through Q-school, like Pettersson and Davis, are usually more committed to the PGA Tour than those who get their card via non-member earnings, such as Poulter, Casey etc.
I need to stress, I don't particularly blame the Tour for changing it at all, I think it's probably a sensible thing to do, if you look at it from a protectionist point of view. But appreciating their reasoning doesn't mean that, as a Euro fan, I have to like the decision! And though they're perfectly entitled to make the changes, I do think it's a bit disingenuous to suggest, like Goydos and others have done, that it's actually opening things up for internationals. Yes the earnings route has been made a little bit easier, but that's only really viable for the elite ET players, and most of those have found in the past that they eventually get a PGA card anyway, the way Poulter, Rose, Harrington, Casey, Sergio etc have done. And for everyone else, it's definitely not opening things up at all.
NedB-H- Posts : 2147
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Re: PGA Tour: Up the (Tobacco) Road to Greensboro: Notes from the Ballwasher
No idea how to say 'on fire' in Flemish... Goo Nicolas!!
princedracula- Posts : 3258
Join date : 2011-06-26
Re: PGA Tour: Up the (Tobacco) Road to Greensboro: Notes from the Ballwasher
Colsaerts birdies the first two holes. I would love to see him and Sergio T2 behind Cauley or Dufner.
GPB- Posts : 7283
Join date : 2012-02-10
Location : Midwest, USA
Re: PGA Tour: Up the (Tobacco) Road to Greensboro: Notes from the Ballwasher
I see Sky Sports have already started their coverage, with the leaders an hour away from going out... much earlier than normal, have the hosts decided on a bit of extra broadcasting or is it going to be 90 minutes of studio chat and the occasional shot?
NedB-H- Posts : 2147
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Re: PGA Tour: Up the (Tobacco) Road to Greensboro: Notes from the Ballwasher
Jerry Kelly finished his round, and is now at #122 for Barclays. Heath Slocum (-1 so far) looks OK at #123 if he doesn't fall off. Brendan Steele, Chez Reavie, and David Mathis seem to have missed Barclays, probably Herron too unless he can go -3 from here. YE Yang keeps having one foot inside and one outside the Barclays qualification line.
Leff- Posts : 1169
Join date : 2011-09-11
Location : USA
Re: PGA Tour: Up the (Tobacco) Road to Greensboro: Notes from the Ballwasher
If you are a Boo Weekly fan, he is now at #124, helplessly watching how other are doing, having missed the cut. Among those not making the cut, Jhontty Vegas, now delicately placed at #126.
Leff- Posts : 1169
Join date : 2011-09-11
Location : USA
Re: PGA Tour: Up the (Tobacco) Road to Greensboro: Notes from the Ballwasher
Heath Slocum has made the biggest move inside the Barclay's qualification line.
Leff- Posts : 1169
Join date : 2011-09-11
Location : USA
Re: PGA Tour: Up the (Tobacco) Road to Greensboro: Notes from the Ballwasher
Jerry Kelly is definitely OK, the three guys right behind him in points all missed the cut.
Disappointing Sundays for England (Christian), Wales (Donaldson) and Scotland (Knox).
But good so far for Belgique!
Disappointing Sundays for England (Christian), Wales (Donaldson) and Scotland (Knox).
But good so far for Belgique!
kwinigolfer- Posts : 26476
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Location : Vermont
Re: PGA Tour: Up the (Tobacco) Road to Greensboro: Notes from the Ballwasher
Golf Channel is doing their best to not show Colsaerts on their coverage. 3 birdies and T4 right now, still have not seen him hit a shot.
GPB- Posts : 7283
Join date : 2012-02-10
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Re: PGA Tour: Up the (Tobacco) Road to Greensboro: Notes from the Ballwasher
NedB-H wrote:Robo,
What we have is a marginally better system for Donaldson and a couple of others who have had good years in the majors. The problem is there's literally dozens of other players in Europe for whom the system becomes far worse. As Kwini says it's the level below the top 50/top 100 players who are in trouble....
There's a lot I can agree with you on... the main one being Finchem wants to make it easy for TOP internationals to gain entry on the PGAT, but has no special affinity for that 2nd tier having an easy time of it.
Where we disagree is I don't see it as protectionism... in any way shape or form, in fact I believe just the opposite. Here's what I believe is the basic thinking of the Tour... If a guys good enough to get here via STM... we want him. Allowing total money including non-member earnings to qualify for the playoffs and adding another world wide co-sanctioned event for Euro's to qualify proves that. But quite frankly... unless the Chopra's, Canizares' and Ferrie's can get in via STM or willing to play the playoff series, or willing to pay their dues via the web.com... I don't think the tour is the least bit concerned if they become members or not. The reason... sooner or later... the players the PGA Tour really want WILL eventually qualify for STM or at least the Playoffs.. and many will take advantage of it. The REAL guys they want are guys like Kaymer, Molinari, Hanson (who'll get on for next year), Colsaerts, Lynn, Matteo and others of that ilk. Players who can bring not only some talent, but some attraction to the PGAT.
And one other point... I think guys like Pettersson, Chopra and Davis are bad examples for you to use... IMO any of them very much would have been willing to go the Web.com route if that's what it took.... same with most of the Euro's that have come over to play their college golf in the states.
robopz- Posts : 3604
Join date : 2012-04-23
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Re: PGA Tour: Up the (Tobacco) Road to Greensboro: Notes from the Ballwasher
ouch... bogey hurts Colsearts...
robopz- Posts : 3604
Join date : 2012-04-23
Location : Texas
Re: PGA Tour: Up the (Tobacco) Road to Greensboro: Notes from the Ballwasher
Finchem wouldn't have given a toss about Lynn (who's he?) a fortnight ago!
robo,
No doubt you're right about Finchem's motivation. I don't believe Davis would have gone the NWide route, no reason why he would have, but you're probably right about Pettersson. Chopra? Who knows??!!
Actually surprised Canizares didn't stay, probably because he had the ET exemption, but he's the sort of guy, like Blixt, who probably would still go web.comming it if not for his timely ET win.
Come on Sergio!
robo,
No doubt you're right about Finchem's motivation. I don't believe Davis would have gone the NWide route, no reason why he would have, but you're probably right about Pettersson. Chopra? Who knows??!!
Actually surprised Canizares didn't stay, probably because he had the ET exemption, but he's the sort of guy, like Blixt, who probably would still go web.comming it if not for his timely ET win.
Come on Sergio!
kwinigolfer- Posts : 26476
Join date : 2011-05-18
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Re: PGA Tour: Up the (Tobacco) Road to Greensboro: Notes from the Ballwasher
I really don't see the big deal about a journeyman EuroT players (Number 80 something on the $$$ RTD) spending a year on the Web.com tour.
If he is 80 something the money he is earning is going to be comparable to the #10 something on the Web.com tour. with a lot less expenses and travel.
If he is 80 something the money he is earning is going to be comparable to the #10 something on the Web.com tour. with a lot less expenses and travel.
GPB- Posts : 7283
Join date : 2012-02-10
Location : Midwest, USA
Re: PGA Tour: Up the (Tobacco) Road to Greensboro: Notes from the Ballwasher
Current leaderboard shows 19 Americans in the top 23 with 2 Saffers, a Spaniard, and one from that country divided by language. I counted Pettersson as an American; he is more than a certified Carolinian.
Leff- Posts : 1169
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Re: PGA Tour: Up the (Tobacco) Road to Greensboro: Notes from the Ballwasher
Anyone knows who's Sergio's new caddy this week?
princedracula- Posts : 3258
Join date : 2011-06-26
Re: PGA Tour: Up the (Tobacco) Road to Greensboro: Notes from the Ballwasher
princedracula wrote:Anyone knows who's Sergio's new caddy this week?
Hard earlier that its a friend of the boy whos in charge of sponsorship at Wyndham. Must be a temporary measure as he had no caddie when he turned up this week.
Sand- Posts : 856
Join date : 2011-07-18
Re: PGA Tour: Up the (Tobacco) Road to Greensboro: Notes from the Ballwasher
I'd be happy to be proved wrong and see players agree with you GPB! My suspicion though is that there'll be a combination of the upheaval of relocating, and the perception that it's a step down, and people will stick with what they know. We'll find out one way or another anyway; in a month or two we'll see how many ET journeymen sign up for the last bout of Q-school as we know it, and in another 12 months we get to see how many fancy the new version. No doubt there'll be a bit of dropoff as the rewards are obviously going to be less; but it'll be interesting to see how much. If plenty of journeymen still enter, I'll eat my words on the whole topic!GPB wrote:I really don't see the big deal about a journeyman EuroT players (Number 80 something on the $$$ RTD) spending a year on the Web.com tour.
If he is 80 something the money he is earning is going to be comparable to the #10 something on the Web.com tour. with a lot less expenses and travel.
NedB-H- Posts : 2147
Join date : 2011-01-27
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Re: PGA Tour: Up the (Tobacco) Road to Greensboro: Notes from the Ballwasher
Robo - Fully agree with your take. Finchem, thank goodness, has no interest in creating a "socialist" tour, for lack of a better term. One of the reasons the US tour has become so powerful is because Finchem attracts and retains the top talent to his events. The US tour would be in pretty sorry shape if the top Europeans didn't support it in droves like they do.
The foundation of all this is his ability to get corporate sponsorship and to marshal local resources to oversee very well run events. Is his "system" better? Well, the numbers don't lie. No one puts a gun to any player's head and demands them aspire to compete on the US tour.
The foundation of all this is his ability to get corporate sponsorship and to marshal local resources to oversee very well run events. Is his "system" better? Well, the numbers don't lie. No one puts a gun to any player's head and demands them aspire to compete on the US tour.
Shotrock- Posts : 3924
Join date : 2011-05-10
Location : Philadelphia
Re: PGA Tour: Up the (Tobacco) Road to Greensboro: Notes from the Ballwasher
A cynic would counter all that by saying it's the American way to establish a monopoly and expand it as much as is possible.
That leads to powerful government and corporations where the old saw of power corrupting but absolute power corrupting absolutely is seen as a truism.
Sometimes I think Finchem crosses the line, and in his behaviour towards world golf I believe he does that. Hedging his bets when it suits him (Asia for instance) but being a subtly malignant influence towards almost everything else - WGC's a prime example.
As long as the PGA Tour is all powerful, no-one will complain loudly enough to make any difference. Any economic shift to Europe then I'm not so sure.
In the case in question, he's more than satisfying his constituency, can't argue about that.
That leads to powerful government and corporations where the old saw of power corrupting but absolute power corrupting absolutely is seen as a truism.
Sometimes I think Finchem crosses the line, and in his behaviour towards world golf I believe he does that. Hedging his bets when it suits him (Asia for instance) but being a subtly malignant influence towards almost everything else - WGC's a prime example.
As long as the PGA Tour is all powerful, no-one will complain loudly enough to make any difference. Any economic shift to Europe then I'm not so sure.
In the case in question, he's more than satisfying his constituency, can't argue about that.
kwinigolfer- Posts : 26476
Join date : 2011-05-18
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Re: PGA Tour: Up the (Tobacco) Road to Greensboro: Notes from the Ballwasher
On a brighter note, play in Greensboro resumes at 5.00 p.m.
Sunset at 8.04 p.m. so, with 13 and a bit holes to play, they should just about squeeze 18 holes in. Play-Off Monday presumably.
Not sure why they didn't start play earlier this morning given the adjusted forecast yesterday evening.
Sunset at 8.04 p.m. so, with 13 and a bit holes to play, they should just about squeeze 18 holes in. Play-Off Monday presumably.
Not sure why they didn't start play earlier this morning given the adjusted forecast yesterday evening.
kwinigolfer- Posts : 26476
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Re: PGA Tour: Up the (Tobacco) Road to Greensboro: Notes from the Ballwasher
Nobody in here is a Boo fan.Leff wrote:If you are a Boo Weekly fan, he is now at #124, helplessly watching how other are doing, having missed the cut. Among those not making the cut, Jhontty Vegas, now delicately placed at #126.
pedro- Posts : 7353
Join date : 2011-01-27
Re: PGA Tour: Up the (Tobacco) Road to Greensboro: Notes from the Ballwasher
A 5.30 p.m. resumption makes completion of the round tonight problematic I would think.
Even more of a test of Sergio's patience.
And princedrac's?
Even more of a test of Sergio's patience.
And princedrac's?
kwinigolfer- Posts : 26476
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Re: PGA Tour: Up the (Tobacco) Road to Greensboro: Notes from the Ballwasher
Telly coverage confused me for a moment with Kevin Stadler and Jason Bohn leading. They are showing 2009 Wyndham.
Leff- Posts : 1169
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Re: PGA Tour: Up the (Tobacco) Road to Greensboro: Notes from the Ballwasher
Kwin - If there's a shift to Europe, bully for them. Professional golfers are attracted to big prize money, well run events, and the ability to manage a personal life as best as possible while they are making a living. Finchem gets that.
I'm unconvinced the Euro model of holding tournaments throughout the world is conducive to that. But, the market, not I, will determine things.
I'm unconvinced the Euro model of holding tournaments throughout the world is conducive to that. But, the market, not I, will determine things.
Shotrock- Posts : 3924
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Re: PGA Tour: Up the (Tobacco) Road to Greensboro: Notes from the Ballwasher
Moving to 6pm now, apparently...kwinigolfer wrote:A 5.30 p.m. resumption makes completion of the round tonight problematic I would think.
Even more of a test of Sergio's patience.
And princedrac's?
No way...!
princedracula- Posts : 3258
Join date : 2011-06-26
Re: PGA Tour: Up the (Tobacco) Road to Greensboro: Notes from the Ballwasher
Sr,
That wasn't my point! But we're going over ground that's already been ploughed.
Slightly different point, but I'll be interested to see how the PGA Tour guys who've been playing on the ET have enjoyed it. Imagine some will embrace le difference, others can't wait to get home to their gated communities.
Back to En-Joie . . . .
That wasn't my point! But we're going over ground that's already been ploughed.
Slightly different point, but I'll be interested to see how the PGA Tour guys who've been playing on the ET have enjoyed it. Imagine some will embrace le difference, others can't wait to get home to their gated communities.
Back to En-Joie . . . .
kwinigolfer- Posts : 26476
Join date : 2011-05-18
Location : Vermont
Re: PGA Tour: Up the (Tobacco) Road to Greensboro: Notes from the Ballwasher
Resuming 9am ET tomorrow...
Sweet dreams!
Sweet dreams!
princedracula- Posts : 3258
Join date : 2011-06-26
Re: PGA Tour: Up the (Tobacco) Road to Greensboro: Notes from the Ballwasher
Done
Back tomorrow then, strange that they didn't reschedule today, when usually the slightest hint of nastiness in the forecasts throws all the teetimes forward.
Back tomorrow then, strange that they didn't reschedule today, when usually the slightest hint of nastiness in the forecasts throws all the teetimes forward.
NedB-H- Posts : 2147
Join date : 2011-01-27
Location : Kent / Ceredigion
Re: PGA Tour: Up the (Tobacco) Road to Greensboro: Notes from the Ballwasher
Watching the Champo Tour, play off between a one-time hotshot out of college who suffered tragedy and a wine connoisseur who won the Scottish Open!
Willie Wood looked about 15 when he was the Tour's golden boy to be. Now he looks about 35.
I wonder if Michael Allen's 606 buddy roderickslyme is watching?
Willie Wood looked about 15 when he was the Tour's golden boy to be. Now he looks about 35.
I wonder if Michael Allen's 606 buddy roderickslyme is watching?
kwinigolfer- Posts : 26476
Join date : 2011-05-18
Location : Vermont
Re: PGA Tour: Up the (Tobacco) Road to Greensboro: Notes from the Ballwasher
Willie definitely does not look like he belongs on the Cialis Circuit. Looks like his shirt was bought last week at the Souvenir shop at Kiawah. Almost identical logo.
GPB- Posts : 7283
Join date : 2012-02-10
Location : Midwest, USA
Re: PGA Tour: Up the (Tobacco) Road to Greensboro: Notes from the Ballwasher
Hope to god Weaver wins the US amateur, Fox's swing tourette's is some of the worst I've seen.
incontinentia- Posts : 3977
Join date : 2012-01-06
Location : Ireland
Re: PGA Tour: Up the (Tobacco) Road to Greensboro: Notes from the Ballwasher
Sky not showing golf tomorrow afternoon... What do we pay our subscription for?
Sand- Posts : 856
Join date : 2011-07-18
Re: PGA Tour: Up the (Tobacco) Road to Greensboro: Notes from the Ballwasher
Assume you know the Willie Wood backstory GPB?
As for the logo, I think that belongs to a property company that owned the home of the "Oak Tree Boys"; Gil Morgan, Doug Tewell, the Tways, Scott Verplank, WW, etc.
I knid a like it!
Weaver blew his chances and just about destroyed his bag . . . . . . . Looked utterly distraught.
As for the logo, I think that belongs to a property company that owned the home of the "Oak Tree Boys"; Gil Morgan, Doug Tewell, the Tways, Scott Verplank, WW, etc.
I knid a like it!
Weaver blew his chances and just about destroyed his bag . . . . . . . Looked utterly distraught.
kwinigolfer- Posts : 26476
Join date : 2011-05-18
Location : Vermont
Re: PGA Tour: Up the (Tobacco) Road to Greensboro: Notes from the Ballwasher
Weaver any relation to Drew(?) who won the British Am a few years back?
What's the Willie Wood backstory Kwini, I know the name, but nothing more.
What's the Willie Wood backstory Kwini, I know the name, but nothing more.
NedB-H- Posts : 2147
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