PGA Tour: Up the (Tobacco) Road to Greensboro: Notes from the Ballwasher

First topic message reminder :

1).PGA Championship.
Rory McIlroy.
Simply Magnificent.

2).PGA Championship.
David Lynn.
Second?
In your first ever event in the United States?
You've got to be sh1tting me.
Invite to the 2013 Masters.
Invite to the 2013 PGA Championship.
Very good chances of earning automatic exemption to the "Opens".

3).PGA Championship.
Seven of the Top Ten are Europeans, and they'll all be back, exempt, next year.
The Top 4 and ties will be invited to the 2013 Masters. Carl Pettersson (edit: already exempt!) joins David Lynn of those not otherwise exempt who'll be receiving that envelope from Billy Payne.

4).PGA Championship.
And the Top 15 and ties will be invited to the 2013 PGA Championship at Oak Hill. Those not already exempt include Lynn, Poulter, Pettersson, Adams, Donaldson, Hanson, Stricker, Curtis, Clark, Ogilvy and Scott.

5).Kiawah Island's Ocean Course.
The course received mixed receptions from players (mostly positive) and media (a lot of it negative). Most of the negatives focussed on transportation logistics and the supposed absurdity of playing a windswept oceanside course with raised greens and fairways, but few run-up options. Exhibit A; Friday.
Was it significant that only seven of the leading 17 golfers were American?
Does it speak to a lack of creativity that many have long criticised the PGA Tour players for??
However well the course stood up to a variety of conditions and wind directions, I'd be surprised to see the PGA return their Championship here anytime soon.

6).And who's this Blake Adams fellow who finished 7th?
Adams has played The Players, US Open and PGA Championship this year and contended to some extent in all three. Almost 37 and only on Tour for three years, Adams is another of the multi-sport athletes, basketball and baseball in his case, who's focussed on golf and graduated through the mini-tours to PGA Tour success. He's another of the Tour's walking wounded but has become a Tour "iron man"; no wins but a runner up to Jason Day (remember him?) at the 2010 Byron Nelson, when he screwed up the final hole worse than Day did.
Well worth bearing in mind next time the Tour stops at a course that rewards strategic play and pars.

7).Carl Pettersson has returned to his self-described "ten beers and a pint of ice cream" diet after losing a ton of weight and his golf swing a few years ago. Most significantly this week is his work as a Board Member of the Tour's Greensboro tournament, helping to ensure that one of the oldest stops on Tour has not only maintained its place on the calendar, arguably strengthened its position.
A new sponsor, Wyndham Hotels and Resorts, and a new (old) course, Sedgefield Country Club, a Donald Ross original, have combined to elevate the event which now holds an interesting position with many of the field striving for FedEx participation or position.

8).Sam Snead won "Greensboro" EIGHT times, but last year's winner was a young American who'd been showing tons of promise, had been desperately unlucky not to win in New Orleans, and was a local lad to boot. Guy called Webb Simpson. He's back with an interesting field and some "interesting" tee times:
Simpson, Love, Pettersson. Local heroes.
Haas, Dufner, Snedeker. Ryder Cup player and two wannabe Captain's picks.
Appleby, Villegas, Glover. All outside the Fed Ex Play-Off places.
Schwartzel, Garcia, Watney. Disappointing seasons all.

9).European representation includes Christian, Davis, Jamie Donaldson, Knox and Greg Owen (good e.w. chance again this week?); Blixt, Chopra, Karlsson, Pettersson and Stenson; Colsaerts and Garcia (unlucky loser in a 2009 play-off here to Ryan Moore). Significant week for many of them:
Knox, Chopra, Karlsson all need big finishes to assist them in quest to retain Tour cards.
Blixt (back from a long injury absence), Christian, Garcia and Stenson will all qualify for The Barclays, but need good finishes this next fortnight to progress to the Deutsche Bank.
Colsaerts and Garcia are vying for Ryder Cup qualification.

10).In a sign of the times, Bud Cauley has just overtaken Arnold Palmer in the career earnings list;
Marc Leishman has recently passed Jack Nicklaus;
And Rory McIlroy's next top three finish will push him past Tom Watson!

I'm perfectly willing to accept it. However as bad as Europes ole songs have been they do have the imagination to have more than one song.

The crowd banter at the last Ryder cup was excellent, good pi$$ taking fun, but only usa usa and inappropriate whoops and hollers from the yanks.
I suppose its one of the few good things we have taken from football, the terrace humour, whereas Americans only seem capable of fist pumps, 'yeahs' embarrasing high fives, and crappy usa chants.

I see what you're getting at Robo, but you have to concede that the tone has a lot to do with how the respective chants come across. The staccato of U-S-A, repeated over and over comes across much more antagonisticly than the longer, more melodic ole song.

super_realist wrote:I'm perfectly willing to accept it. However as bad as Europes ole songs have been they do have the imagination to have more than one song.

The crowd banter at the last Ryder cup was excellent, good pi$$ taking fun, but only usa usa and inappropriate whoops and hollers from the yanks.
I suppose its one of the few good things we have taken from football, the terrace humour, whereas Americans only seem capable of fist pumps, 'yeahs' embarrasing high fives, and crappy usa chants.

LOL... you think our fist pumps (or bumps) are bad... you oughta see the carnage when our guys try chest bumps.... :-)

Bottom line: Euro's are naturally going to think their chants and methods of celebrating are "better" than the other side... and naturally the U.S fans will have the same opinion. ME? I just wish we could ratchet down the over-the-top-ish-ness that the Ryder Cup has become. Don't get me wrong, I love the competition... but man... the whole thing... a little much if you ask me.

EDIT: and one more thing... 51 weeks a year, I am NOT a homer for the U.S.A. Living in America, I naturally have familiarity with more PGA Tour players than Euro players, so I might root for more of them than Euros or other Internationals. But I couldn't have been happier with the winners of the Open, PGA or this past week's Wyndham. Even this last week... my pick going in was Dufner... but by Saturday my rooting interest had changed to Tim Clark (even found myself pulling for Colsaerts quite a bit there too). But come that one week a year... Ryder Cup or Presidents... screw you guys!!!! :-)

Super - Football? I've attended premiership games and witnessed first hand some obnoxious, alcohol-fueled behavior. I also live and have attended Philadelphia Eagles games, and witnessed similar obnoxious behavior. (Interestingly, Philadelphia Union fans much more in the hippie camp than hardcore.)

The RC I attended in Oakland Hills was hardly a display of poor sportsmanship, although poor golf from the Americans and excellent golf from the Europeans was on display.

Gimme a break with the "Americans only seem capable of" stuff ...

SR, I mentioned that what the golf fans took from Football was the better side of that particular crowd behaviour. By and large I hate football and hate footballers and the moronic supporters, but some of the pearls that come out of the crowd really do make you laugh from time to time, and this terrace humour was transferred to the golf at the last RC. So please get off your supersensitive high horse. I get that Americans don't really play high profile international team sport so their support is naturally overly nationalistic the few chances they get to support their nation on a global scale, just wish they weren't so vitriolic and flag waving. A bit of humour would go a long way to endearing American's to others, and no, moonshine induced "mashed potato" doesn't count.


The worse thing players can do though is touch fists. I don't get this at all,and looks utterly ridiculous from fat white men barely coordinated enough to meet square. Even Woods, but then again he's the whitest black man you'll ever see.

Oh the mashed potato, OMG.

Butch harmon was in commentary and he said- which sounded very serious at the time. "I just wish this idiots wernt allowed in" or something along those lines!!

SReal are you telling me woods is a choc ice?

No Oakey, please let's not go down that road. I'm saying that despite his ethnic diversity he's just as "white" in his attitude, "personality" etc as all the other golfers. Imprinting I imagine.

By the way, his high five with his caddie on "that chip" was one of sports most embarassing celebrations, full of hesitation and almost missed one another.

SR I know what your saying pal.. Nice post- your right! lets not go there- it was supposed to be a joke. Your showing signs of PC behaviour there lad. maybe its a good thing.

yeah them embarrasing cringworthy celebrations.. They remind me of the haka's that were on the whole performed by white kiwi players in the 80's or 90's!!

Not worried about being PC Oakey, just worried about starting off a wave of fake offence by the likes of Mac who pretend to be offended on others behalf, which is of course, is usually more offensive than what was originally said.

I dont understand what the heck is going on over there mate.

People intentionally being offended for no reason at all Oakey, and taking things far too seriously.

SR its the hypocritical aspect of it all that does my head in..

So I take it the Fed ex is coming up anyway!! thats gonna get me back into watching golf!!

Rory's PGA win has made the player of the year award more interesting. Before that it was looking like Tiger all the way (along with the comeback player award) but perhaps the Major can swing it for young Rors??

I guess if either wins the Fed-ex it will cement it for them.

If any of the major winners can win the fed ex it will be theres !

Super - Supersensitive high horse? Nah, just some clarity. I think some of your confusion lies in your comment regarding "high profile" international team sports.

High profile to who? The UK press? Don't think just because something is "high profile" to you it's anointed as such. Go to Canada and a high profile international team sport is Hockey. In Mexico it's soccer. In Cuba it's baseball. In the US some high profile international team sports are basketball, soccer and baseball.

And didn't the US just compete in the Olympics? That's a pretty high profile international event - loaded with both individual and team sports.

It's a big world out there - lots of different passions and ways of expressing that! A few yahoos will always get the attention for obnoxious behavior, but I can assure you most people in these United States understand that a game is just a game.

SR, i'm talking about that the majority of sport in America revolves around domestic sport, NFL, NBA, NFL, Major League etc, whereas in the UK and Europe we are used to playing other nations regularly both in club games and also as countries, international sport is part of our history, so we naturally have many rivalries with other countries, some historically and politically fuelled, others more friendly , but they are long enough established in which the fans behave in a certain way pertaining to the history/banter/politics etc, rather than simply being overly nationalistic at every opportunity the way America chooses to show itself when on that stage with the wretched one dimensional chants of USA which seems to span all of their sports against other countries.#

Nothing wrong with that, it's a flag saluting country after all, just that it's rather boring to hear whenever they play another country.

super_realist wrote:SR, I mentioned that what the golf fans took from Football was the better side of that particular crowd behaviour. By and large I hate football and hate footballers and the moronic supporters, but some of the pearls that come out of the crowd really do make you laugh from time to time, and this terrace humour was transferred to the golf at the last RC. So please get off your supersensitive high horse. I get that Americans don't really play high profile international team sport so their support is naturally overly nationalistic the few chances they get to support their nation on a global scale, just wish they weren't so vitriolic and flag waving. A bit of humour would go a long way to endearing American's to others, and no, moonshine induced "mashed potato" doesn't count.


The worse thing players can do though is touch fists. I don't get this at all,and looks utterly ridiculous from fat white men barely coordinated enough to meet square. Even Woods, but then again he's the whitest black man you'll ever see.

Super,

There was more Irish "flag waving" at the 2004 RC in the US that USA "flag waving"............i understand you are being delibrately provocative but come on.............

John, I'm merely saying the American fondness for a "U.S.A" chant over anything else is boring and they ought to try something different

I always cringe when the winners of the Super Bowl or World series describe themselves as "World Champions".

super_realist wrote:John, I'm merely saying the American fondness for a "U.S.A" chant over anything else is boring and they ought to try something different

I feel sorry for the "International" team fans at the Presidents Cup.........what can they sing?? At least USA will always have "U.S.A."!

John Cregan wrote:

super_realist wrote:John, I'm merely saying the American fondness for a "U.S.A" chant over anything else is boring and they ought to try something different

I feel sorry for the "International" team fans at the Presidents Cup.........what can they sing?? At least USA will always have "U.S.A."!

They can sing the "Internationale". I'm sure some posters in here would appreciate some more socialism in the golf world.

Sr,
Unfortunately, I think your testimony for the US defence is the best evidence for super_'s prosecution you could possibly offer.

The average American would be hard pressed to name a single person on the US men's football team, probably only get Hope Solo from the women's because of her omnipresence in the gossip columns and overall ineptitude.

And, even baseball fans would find difficulty in naming any participants in the last games the US played in international competition.

A number of basketball players may come to mind but only because of their performances for their NBA teams, while most 2012 US Olympians apart from Phelps, Roddick and the Williams divas will be long forgotten once the NFL gets underway.

And how many American fans remember any of the Miracle On Ice participants?

Sad but true.

Kwin - Super's prosecution was, and I quote here, "that Americans only seem capable of fist pumps, yeahs' embarrasing high fives, and crappy usa chants." And "that Americans don't really play high profile international team sport so their support is naturally overly nationalistic the few chances they get to support their nation on a global scale ..."

What high profile international team sports do American's not play? And what defines a "high profile" team sport?

Average "knowledge" of participants in these sports seems to me another matter entirely.

Seems to me there's a big difference over here between say someone who's a golf fan vs a sports fan who watches golf. The sports fans at Barclays/Bethpage at the weekend will be the ones shouting stupid stuff, whereas the golf fans will be the ones who mostly stick to applause, and the occasional "good shot" etc.
Similarly, sports fans will have forgotten the Miracle on Ice guys but not the real hockey fans like Mr. P. He still goes on (and on) about it once in a while.

But I think the overall lack of knowledge and engagement is the point; the top five American sports are
NFL
Pre-Season NFL
College Football
High School Football
Fantasy Football.

Apart from College Basketball nothing else really counts, certainly not the occasional forays into the International arena, and therefore fans cheer the flag rather than individuals or teams.
That's why broadcasters get away with tape delay on so many of them, no-one really cares, despite the viewing figures, they just want to see an American on the top level of the podium and listen to the anthem as they open another Bud Light. They're not paying their dollars to watch Rebecca Soni for instance, or Biesel The Diesel. Or even Russell Westbrook. Or Lisa Raymond.

USA, USA, USA,
PS: Who are these guys?

Shotrock, America aren't really very good at the international sports they do play, so it gets buried beneath tractor pulling and crappy like NASCAR in the reporting.

As for the Olympics being international, well yes it is, in the way that countries compete in the same arena, but it isn't nation against nation like you would see in a world cup, whilst people don't do it in order to represent their country. It's completely different from true international matches.

Anyway all I'm saying is that Americans are overly nationalistic in these things and could perhaps lighten up and take themselves a bit less seriously. the horribly patriotic shouts of usa usa, are often without any knowledge of the sport and are often just a way to support the country rather than the sport.

Super what you mean is America isn't good at soccer. It's the only true global team sport and they don't happen to play it much.
They are very good at lots of other team sports, Davis Cup, Gymnastics, Americas Cup, swim relays, basketball which is played far more widely than cricket or rugby.
You need to get your head around the concept of global team sports, ie there is only one and it's not one the yanks play though as it goes there women are probably the best in history at it.

Plunky,
Sounds like Mr.P is a solid guy!
Did you attend Tuesday's practice?
(Wish I could remember all the Miracle On Icers but start stumbling after the first half dozen or so!)

you have to get your head round international sports in which you compete against other nations rather than just represent a nation. Big difference. Ryder cup is usa v Europe, not Michael phelps from America, who competes against others regardless of nationality.

Olympics, athletics, swimming etc are not competing against other countries, you just happen to be from a particular country.

As for basketball being more widely played than cricket. Hardly, there are more cricketers in the Indian sub continent than play basketball worldwide.

I can scarcely think of a sport where a draw takes place in which America competes against another country, hence why when the Ryder cup comes along they come all overly patriotic

Super - A quick search revealed this (by fan interest): http://www.mostpopularsports.net/
If we believe it, I'll suggest the US is ...


Soccer - pretty average in men's, above average in women's
Nowhere to be found for cricket or field hockey
Team Tennis - Above average for men's and women's
Volleyball - Average to above for men's and women's
Table Tennis - nowhere to be found
Baseball - Above average
Golf - Above average
Basketball - Dominating
Football - Irrelevant


But, what if we went by # of participants? The top sports are:
1. Volleyball 998 Million
2. Basketball 400 Million
3. Table Tennis300 Million
4. Soccer 242 Million
5. Badminton 200 Million
6. Tennis 60 Million
7. Baseball 60 Million
8. Dragon Boat Racing 50 Million
9. Team Handball 18 Million
10. Field Hockey 3 Million

Discard the findings or draw any conclusion you want!

Super, I doubt there is a city in the world that doesn't have a basketball court , you think they all have cricket pitches do you ?
Name me these international sports that America plays that it's no good at. They don't exist apart from soccer, and they are pretty good at that considering how little it's played by them.
Come on, let's have this list. Should be easy to do.

Super - If you can find the worldwide number for cricket players you are a better man than I.

Also, no way to audit these figures, that's for sure. But, if you stand by the comment that Americans aren't "very good at international sports" and you don't believe basketball IS an international sport or that America isn't very good at it ... well, no point for further discussion!

How many of the courts are used though?

The point I'm struggling to make you understand is not that Americans aren't good at sport but that they don't compete in global competition where they compete as a country much apart from football which falls somewhere beneath tractor pulling in popularity in America. therefore the fans when they do compete in something like the the Ryder cup when they are actually taking part as USA and not Andy roddick ( from America) v Federer (from Switzerland) is when they go mental and overly patriotic. Roddick is competing as roddick, not America.

Surely you can see the distinction, whereas in the UK its completely different, we've played international sport for centuries.

Sigh ... no list. Shock, horror suprise.

Diggers there is no need for a list. Americans are preoccupied with domestic sport, even although a basketball world cup exists I bet most Americans don't care too much about it, let alone know they are the holders.

My point is that there aren't many sports where a team represents America as a country directly against other countries which are well known or supported in America. Hence why they behave so perochially in Ryder cup because its one of the few outlets they have to compete as usa on a global stage against others on a grand scale, rather than individuals who must happen to hail from America such as happens in athletics, swimming, tennis etc.

It's not a complicated concept to grasp.

What say as hard to grasp as the concept that basketball is played by way more countries than play cricket or rugby ?

America does dominators.
We do underdogs.

I think that is an essential difference.

US couldn't care less about losers which is why the men's footie failure to qualify for the Olympics barely raised a media ripple, yet they loved the success of their women's team.

Just win baby.

Kwini, we do underdogs when it suits us. We gloat and love it when we dominate as well, it's just we don't do it very often.

Some interesting regional sports passions in the US - Where I live, youth Lacrosse is very popular. Youth Soccer also larger than baseball, football but not (again from my observation -- and I've been on the front lines with my clan) basketball. Ice Hockey also has a rabid youth movement in this area.

Of the above mentioned, I could watch a baseball game just about anytime and anywhere. I remain captivated by it. Don't dislike American Football, but I don't follow college football and only watch professional football playoff time.

Diggers, Basketball may well be popular the world over and if it's more popular than Cricket, fair enough, but in America there isn't an appetite for competition against other nations because A) Most of their sports are insular and played only in America (American Football) or by a very small number of countries at any sort of level (Baseball) or B) What international competition (ie USA v Serbia or Greece in basketball) that does exist does not capture the nation's interest. For example how many Americans are interested in the Basketball World cup, or are they pre-occupied with their domestic sports and their domestic leagues and cups far more?

The Ryder Cup is one of the few international competitions in which America take part as a nation and for which there is a national appetite.

This is a very odd argument, as surely each nation plays the sports that are popular domestically and sometimes they so happen to be global sports as well? People in the UK dont become interested in football because they have some need to be part of something international. They like it through history and tradition.

The UK no doubt seems to play more sports that have become international but really we are just playing the sports exported during the days of the empire, which was spread far and wide. It is complete nonsense to think we are more outward looking because of the sports we play.

People of America play the sports most popular in their continent and so do we.

Nail on the head Mac, we understand and appreciate international sport more than Americans because we play more international sporting competition as a nation.

What i've said all along is that American's don't really play international sport in which they are represented as America, at least not ones which capture the imagination, hence why they are a bit mental and overly tribal at one that does capture the imaginatin e.g. The Ryder Cup.

s_r and Mac on same page:

But one thing always occurred to me, and is perhaps highlighted by Shotrock's "regional' comment:

In Britain we're largely driven by National media - papers are mostly National and enjoyed by far greater readership than the US equivalents.

Plus most sport is National and receives National radio and TV coverage. Very little American sport receives National TV coverage, even most NFL games are regional.

I think that is a big factor influencing sports fans' behaviour.

Darkey just going on about World Cup qualifying which will convulse most of England. Can't honestly rack my brains to think of any international competition that will grab significant US media attention, no not even the Ryder Cup, until selective focus on 2014 Winter Olympics.

No equivalent to Test cricket, International Rugby or Football, World Athletics or Swimming, no-one would care even if US had teams participating.

Atmosphere at American sports venues also is very sterile, so none of the "tribal" atmosphere generated at footie games, far more antiseptic even than Roy Keane's prawn sarnie brigade.

I must have been unable to portray my thoughts through my writing as I do not agree with super. My point is that we dont play sports because they are international, we play them because of history and tradition. So to say we understand international sport better because a number of the sports we play are international does not make sense.

I would like to bet the americans play more sports to an international level than we do, even if they are a smaller proportion of the US sports media.

"Americans don't really play international sports in which they are represented as America ..."

An incorrect statement.

" ... at least not ones which capture the imagination"

Not a conclusion I would draw.

So who won the last basketball world cup?

US, for the first time since 1994.

I might post on here a lot... but I'm actually a cricket fan 1st, golf fan second. And cricket is absolutely a far bigger sport, in terms of numbers playing and following it, than basketball is. Super (for once) has it spot on, India and its neighbours sway the numbers completely.

As for the rest of the discussion... who cares?

SmithersJones wrote:So who won the last basketball world cup?

Precisely, but how many Americans know about it or care.

They don't care about competing on an international level, its all about their domestic sports

And how many people know who won the cricket world cup outside of the 8 countries that play ? And if you want to talk about the game being insular what about the effect the IPL is having on international cricket which is not healthy at the moment.