DID MORALES SHOW KHAN -MAIDANA FOR WHAT IT REALLY WAS??

All sorts of rubbish was spoken after Khan-Maidana..How can you prove your critics wrong after being close to being stopped and spanked for the last part of the fight. Imagine if Hagler, Curry, Honeyghan finished a fight like that..Headlines would have been sloppy, lucky and unconvincing.....not proved his critics wrong blah blah blah hah..

Maidana just looks like ordinary Joe with a bit of a dig...He really is ordinary.......

Fairplay to the guy he's made alot of money probably because like Gatti you know if someone throws a hayemaker from left field it's likely to hit him right between the eyes..

Morales looked past it but for me by having experience and some savvy outboxed the guy when the spirit moved him and was robbed..I scored it 116-112..

Think Morales showed Khan-Maidana for what it really was a good nothing special kid against a lucky slugger...

No more no less.

Great bill by the way Khan promoters take note.....Katsidis you're a brave guy but don't go on too long kid!

First thing I thought of after the Morales v Maidana fight, Truss.

I haven't seen that fight yet, so I couldn't offer an informed opinion, but I'm glad you've brought this up so that we can see what everybody thinks.

I'll be following this one with interest.

You scored it 116-112 to Morales?

He may have nicked it but theres no way I could give it to him by 4 rounds.

116-112 Morales?

I've argued with the way you score bouts before - I cannot see how you came to that conclusion. By 4 rounds?!?

Draw a much more realistic (and fairer, arguably) result - 6 rounds apiece. How you came to 4 rounds Morales I don't know.

And a more realistic appraisal would mention that this was styles making fights. Lest we forget - Maidana battered Ortiz about - and Ortiz was meant to be the next big thing. He didn't become rubbish overnight.

However - Morales does put Khan's performance into context somewhat. Given the fight should have been the classic "boxer v slugger" context - Khan should have avoided running on queer street for 3 rounds. Morales outboxed Maidana at times, on 40yr old legs.

However - styles make fights and Morales' experience made the Maidana fight.

Maidana seemed to coast against Corley as well, perhaps it's a motivation issue.

I mean, he gave Khan, Ortiz and Kotelnik hell but struggled with Corley and Morales? Something doesn't add up, and to say he just isn't all that doesn't make sense as he would have struggled against the better fighters as well IMO

I think the the Khan v Maidana fight, and pretty much all Maidana fights showed that Maidana is essentially a one dimensional, one trick pony but can still be a handful.

Khan very much has his own weaknesses though and is by no means a complete fighter. Despite having great natural skills in speed and power, the overall package isnt quite the sum of the raw ability. Theres lots of thing he cant do well and if he cant dictate range hes in trouble.

Initially I was a kind of split on Bradley v Khan but on reflection I would now very much favour Bradley in this.

I scored it a draw and would edge towards giving Maidana extra rounds more readily than Morales.

The Khan-Maidana fight definitely provided more questions than answers. But Khan's main weakness was seen as his chin, and he stood up to bigger shots than people thought he could, despite him being put on unsteady legs. I think you mentioned it at the time and you were right, the fact that he took his shots glossed over a lot of the weaknesses he showed in most peoples analysis. His ring generalship and tactical brain isn't up to standard yet, and it was worrying how often he was hit with uppercuts inside and how many straight rights caught him.

isnt morales 34?

I don't agree.

Styles make fights and Maidana was all wrong for Khan - a tough pressure fighter with a huge dig.

Khan has no idea how to fight on the inside or tie up an opponent effectively. He also defends poorly against looping overhand punches. However, against stand off guys Khan's jab and speed becomes a massive advantage. He will continue to improve and the Maidana fight made a believer out of me.

Morales did well (but did not win) against Maidana because he's forgotten more about dealing with a high pressure situation than Khan will probably ever know. However, put him in with a sharp shooter like Khan and he will get picked to pieces (at this stage of his career).

As an aside, I suspect your ludicrous scoring is yet more silly attention seeking, but there you go.

I remember Ian Darke mentioning he was a bit of a playboy outside the ring, i'm not sure if he didn't train properly for the fight or if he genuinly struggled with Morales, it certainly makes you look at the Khan fight different.

I like to see skill and quality of quantity..why I had Leonard doing Hagler by a wide margin..

Agree manos with your post..

Guess limond, Prescott and maidana were all wrong for him.

Interesting one -as to whether it shows the Khan fight in a new light.
My feeling is ,Yes, a little.Perhaps too much credit was thrown Amir's way.
Seeing as Khan really did scrape through, by no means an overwhelming
victory.Would have to give a caveat however Trussman, he ended the fight
better than Maidana,so it wasn't exactly a case of "hanging on in there from round ten".
I think the smart money will be on Bradley, and all talk by Roach and the media that he deserves to be doing the "superfights" in two or three more bouts is misleading and a bit of a joke.

My point is that boxing must be less demanding if a Champion gets hurt, wobbled.. put on the brink of a brutal stoppage and the headlines are...

"proves his doubters wrong"....

Against an ordinary Joe...

Not picking on Khan just providing my perspective..

For me Khan beats Bradley..

Maidana's style was wrong for Khan. I actually think he deals with Bradley more easily. He is shorter than Maidana and does not hit anywhere near as hard.

Bradley has very good fundamentals and decent speed, but Khan hits harder and is much quicker. If he shores up his defense I would back him to win convincingly.

Fully agree with Truss on Maidana's ability.I've said this going back to the Ortiz fight, he is so crude it is untrue. The way he throws punches, moves around etc is really poor.In my opinion he is less skilled version of Ricky Hatton.The one thing he does have is some power, other than that i would say that Katsidis shows more technical ability than Maidana

Problem is when you've been fighting as long as Khan etc in the heat of battle you go back into your comfort zone and forget about what you've learned in the gym...

Don't buy the all wrong bit...

Wasn't all wrong at the start of the fight..

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Guess limond, Prescott and maidana were all wrong for him.

Prescott was wrong for him. Too much to early at too low a weight, but it turned him into a far better fighter.

Khan is a flawed fighter - but that chin, which previously looked china, was shown to be robust enough to allow him a very successful career by the Maidana fight. I would not be surprised if he's duking it out with Hamed and Lewis for his place in the list of British greats in 5 years time.

He's a young ambitious man working towards lofty goals - I would have thought an 'American' like yourself would respect that whilst enjoying a cup of tea and nice plate of fish an chips.

Completely agree Truss,

Khan got on his bike for many parts of the Maidana fight and tried to use holding tactics which Cortez was happy to sit by and watch.

The joke is, all the Khan fanatics are using the fact that because Khan took a few big windmill looping shots off Maidana, this is now proof that he could beat the top P4P guys.

In fact, its the reverse. If Khan can't last a fight out with Maidana in the impressive way he started, then he is doomed.

I give to to Morales by one, draw proably a more fair result.

I was thinking the exact same think whether this tarnishes Khan's victory and IMO it has. I think Morales dealt with Maidana then Khan did.

Khan hit and ran while Morales slipped and countered. If only he had about10% more in the tank he could have probs had Maidana out of there in round 8

I can accept that stylewise Maidana wasnt great for Khan ut if we are talking about Khan as a top talent then you would have to be a bit concerned when someone like Marcos Maidana is giving you such trouble regarldess of style.

Morales showed how easy it was with just a bit of handspeed and upperbody movement to back Maidana up and catch him with ease both when Maidana was on the way in and when he was countering Maidana on the inside. you have to wonder why Khan couldnt do this given his handspeed and power is better than Morales.

It looks like Khan himself, at the moment, can only box one way. Given the speed and power he has this is kind of limited. I mean hes virtually no inside fighting, not all that great at medium distance. If he isnt able to ambush from the outside in bursts then there doesnt seem to be a whole lot more to his style - even if he has the raw ability.

Dont want to come across as too critical as the flip side is when Khan is in control and bossing range he can look very very good. But it seems to me hes suited to fighting certain kinds of fighters and cant fight well across the board. A top fighter should not rally be squeaking by Maidan in the manner Khan did for me. Bradley is more rounded if lacking Khans raw ability and looks like giving Khan a nightmare at the moment.

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Don't buy the all wrong bit...

Wasn't all wrong at the start of the fight..

Yes he was, most people were calling for Khan to face Maidana, and because they thought Maidana could knock him out. But I would guess not many would predict how often Khan would be troubled.

yes he was...

Is that when Maidana was getting spanked and decked..

As for calling on him to fight him because Maidana could win....

well fancy fighting someone that had a chance...silly AMIR!!

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:yes he was...

Is that when Maidana was getting spanked and decked..

As for calling on him to fight him because Maidana could win....

well fancy fighting someone that had a chance...silly AMIR!!

I'm starting to think you don't actually watch the fights.

Maidana caught Khan RIGHT AT THE START OF THE FIRST ROUND - 30 seconds in Khan is in trouble.

I'm talking about the first half of the fight....

I'll try to write it in layman's language next time..

Run along..

Fancy that, a pressure fighter wearing down a rangy boxer over the latter rounds in a fight. Unheard of in boxing...

If that's the case Junky why didn't people like Ali, Robbo, Leonard... get worn down more!!

Showing your ignorance...

Was Morales worn down???

People were calling on Khan to face a puncher prior to Maidana. He had picked up good wins over Paulie Malignaggi and Andreas Kotelnik barely dropping a round so the next question was how would he fair against a puncher?

The fight was a thriller but didnt really conclusively say either way because whilst Maidana was a puncher, he wasnt amazing. Had Khan coasted it then you might say he had the skills to. But he didnt. His chin just about held up answering that it perhaps isnt as glass as it was made out to be but other stylistic questions were raised such as Khans inablity to fight at close range and inability to convert clear speed and skill advantages into a winning formula.

Unsurprisingly perhaps on the back of it I believe that Khan is capable of dealing with Maidana level pressure fighter/punchers but if you move the level up a notch or two he will come acropper. Bradley is a clear notch up Miadana so at present I dont see Khan dealing with him unless he can prove otherwise.

So slick boxers have never been caught out late on by pressure fights?

Don't think Khan is on the level of Robbo, Leonard etc, but there are plenty of other high profile examples - Hearns - Leonard 1, JCC - Taylor, Froch - Taylor

Never said that.. you were the one that was "generalising" with your sarcasm....

If a 34 year old has been didn't get worn down.....Doesn't make for a critic proving Khan performance does it!!

Manos

It’s easy to knock Maidana’s skillset, but he managed to KO Ortiz and Cayo who are both very good boxers, gave Khan and Kotelnik hell, both also very good boxers. You can’t be a limited slugger and give well rounded guys like those trouble. Like I said initially, it could be a training / motivation issue - before the Khan fight he went 12 rounds with Corley for example, does that fight also mean Maidana is no good?

Truss,

See above

Maidana couldn't KO Corley, but stopped Ortiz, Cayo, almost had Khan out and gave Kotelnik hell

Big range of styles there, more to it than Maidana being exposed by Morales

Morales is a true great fighter that pulled off a great performance, filled with heart, bravery, skill and experience. Great to watch.

A legend, never discount a great fighter.

Kotelnik is an average fighter Junky.....why else did Khan go for him..

D4 true but hardly relevant.

Maidana would beat most light-welters out there. Probably has the beating of Alexander and Bradley.

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Kotelnik is an average fighter Junky.....why else did Khan go for him..

D4 true but hardly relevant.

If Kotelnik is average - why did Devon Alexander need a robbery from the judges to beat him? Lest we forget, Alexander a fighter described as having "the 2nd or 3rd best fundamentals in the sport behind Floyd".

Kotelnik isn't that bad - and was a good win from Khan - he barely dropped a point.

Could you explain "hitting and running" whilst I'm here? Questioning your judging is debate, old boy.

D4thincarnation wrote:Morales is a true great fighter that pulled off a great performance, filled with heart, bravery, skill and experience. Great to watch.

A legend, never discount a great fighter.

True, but he was unfortunately a little too old and shot to get the win. All too often the case.

Not sure it makes a difference really.

Morales knows all the tricks in the book and has probably forgotton more than Khan has had a chance to learn.

Khan fought the type of fighter that would probably give him the most trouble, Morales has fought many fighters like this over his career.

Everyone questioned whether Khan would ever fight someone with a big punch as when he did he was expected to be KO'd. He fought one of the heaviest hitters at the weight and won.

I also thought the fight was Morales' but I was probably seeing through rose tinted glasses.

Why did norton probably beat Ali three times who cares..

The guy is average in the same way Gotti was.....

He's a chin with a punch like Matty Hilton etc..

Kotelnik is a very hard fighter to look good against, but Khan outclassed him, and Alexander need a robbery for a win.

If/When beats Bradley can anyone really argue that he is not the true champ and all the rest are just pretenders.

BALTIMORA wrote:

D4thincarnation wrote:Morales is a true great fighter that pulled off a great performance, filled with heart, bravery, skill and experience. Great to watch.

A legend, never discount a great fighter.

True, but he was unfortunately a little too old and shot to get the win. All too often the case.

Would actually question if he is 'shot'.

My definition of shot would be when a fighter can no longer take a punch rather than a fighter just being slower as he has aged.

Ali took Berbick's punch..

huw wrote:

BALTIMORA wrote:

D4thincarnation wrote:Morales is a true great fighter that pulled off a great performance, filled with heart, bravery, skill and experience. Great to watch.

A legend, never discount a great fighter.

True, but he was unfortunately a little too old and shot to get the win. All too often the case.

Would actually question if he is 'shot'.

My definition of shot would be when a fighter can no longer take a punch rather than a fighter just being slower as he has aged.

Very subtle, D4.

Like a housebrick to the back of the head.

huw wrote:Not sure it makes a difference really.

Morales knows all the tricks in the book and has probably forgotton more than Khan has had a chance to learn.

Khan fought the type of fighter that would probably give him the most trouble, Morales has fought many fighters like this over his career.

Everyone questioned whether Khan would ever fight someone with a big punch as when he did he was expected to be KO'd. He fought one of the heaviest hitters at the weight and won.

I also thought the fight was Morales' but I was probably seeing through rose tinted glasses.

Yes I remember Truss saying it would never happen and it would be light outs when Maidana connects.

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:The guy is average in the same way Gotti was.....

The teflon don was in no way average. Courted publicity a bit too much for a boss though.

Scottrf wrote:

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:The guy is average in the same way Gotti was.....

The teflon don was in no way average. Courted publicity a bit too much for a boss though.

I don't normally do these, but :

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Why did norton probably beat Ali three times who cares..

The guy is average in the same way Gotti was.....

He's a chin with a punch like Matty Hilton etc..

OK - if world champion, and nearly 2 time world champion save a robbery is average - what's good?

I'm entirely unsure of your point.

You've questioned Maidana's pedigree. There's Ortiz standing against that.

You're questioning Khan's ability - there's Kotelnik, Malignaggi, Maidana standing against that.

None of them are p4p listers (a ridiculous obsession anyway). However - they are all the top contenders in the weight class and should be remembered as such.

Styles make fights and Morales regardless of age had the style to cause Maidana problems. Morales has a great chin, and saw something in Maidana that he new he could exploit.

I picked Khan to win mate.....Don't lie. Said the Ortiz win was non-convincing and the Koty loss all too telling..

Up your level of debate..

D4thincarnation wrote:Styles make fights and Morales regardless of age had the style to cause Maidana problems. Morales has a great chin, and saw something in Maidana that he new he could exploit.

Morales, of course, has a history of exploiting weaknesses.

Great fighter, but well past his best, nonetheless.