DID MORALES SHOW KHAN -MAIDANA FOR WHAT IT REALLY WAS??

First topic message reminder :

All sorts of rubbish was spoken after Khan-Maidana..How can you prove your critics wrong after being close to being stopped and spanked for the last part of the fight. Imagine if Hagler, Curry, Honeyghan finished a fight like that..Headlines would have been sloppy, lucky and unconvincing.....not proved his critics wrong blah blah blah hah..

Maidana just looks like ordinary Joe with a bit of a dig...He really is ordinary.......

Fairplay to the guy he's made alot of money probably because like Gatti you know if someone throws a hayemaker from left field it's likely to hit him right between the eyes..

Morales looked past it but for me by having experience and some savvy outboxed the guy when the spirit moved him and was robbed..I scored it 116-112..

Think Morales showed Khan-Maidana for what it really was a good nothing special kid against a lucky slugger...

No more no less.

Great bill by the way Khan promoters take note.....Katsidis you're a brave guy but don't go on too long kid!

HumanWindmill wrote:

D4thincarnation wrote:Styles make fights and Morales regardless of age had the style to cause Maidana problems. Morales has a great chin, and saw something in Maidana that he new he could exploit.

Morales, of course, has a history of exploiting weaknesses.

Great fighter, but well past his best, nonetheless.

Show what a great fighter he is even past his best he put on a great performance like that. In his retirement, he was drinking and eating loads ballooned up to over 200lbs and not training. Just to even get back into fighting condition is a remarkable feat and then to produce that performance, simply great.

Youth and power are no substitute for experience and skills.

D4thincarnation wrote:

HumanWindmill wrote:

D4thincarnation wrote:Styles make fights and Morales regardless of age had the style to cause Maidana problems. Morales has a great chin, and saw something in Maidana that he new he could exploit.

Morales, of course, has a history of exploiting weaknesses.

Great fighter, but well past his best, nonetheless.

Show what a great fighter he is even past his best he put on a great performance like that. In his retirement, he was drinking and eating loads ballooned up to over 200lbs and not training. Just to even get back into fighting condition is a remarkable feat and then to produce that performance, simply great.

Youth and power are no substitute for experience and skills.

Quite so.

Imagine if somebody had written him off once, only to reassess him going into the Maidana fight ? That truly would highlight a terrible lack of judgement and inconsistency, now wouldn't it ?

D4thincarnation wrote:

huw wrote:Not sure it makes a difference really.

Morales knows all the tricks in the book and has probably forgotton more than Khan has had a chance to learn.

Khan fought the type of fighter that would probably give him the most trouble, Morales has fought many fighters like this over his career.

Everyone questioned whether Khan would ever fight someone with a big punch as when he did he was expected to be KO'd. He fought one of the heaviest hitters at the weight and won.

I also thought the fight was Morales' but I was probably seeing through rose tinted glasses.

Yes I remember Truss saying it would never happen and it would be light outs when Maidana connects.

Yeah when intelligent people make intelligent deductions but are still wrong, that's what's called an 'upset'.

HumanWindmill wrote:

D4thincarnation wrote:

HumanWindmill wrote:

D4thincarnation wrote:Styles make fights and Morales regardless of age had the style to cause Maidana problems. Morales has a great chin, and saw something in Maidana that he new he could exploit.

Morales, of course, has a history of exploiting weaknesses.

Great fighter, but well past his best, nonetheless.

Show what a great fighter he is even past his best he put on a great performance like that. In his retirement, he was drinking and eating loads ballooned up to over 200lbs and not training. Just to even get back into fighting condition is a remarkable feat and then to produce that performance, simply great.

Youth and power are no substitute for experience and skills.

Quite so.

Imagine if somebody had written him off once, only to reassess him going into the Maidana fight ? That truly would highlight a terrible lack of judgement and inconsistency, now wouldn't it ?

Styles make fights Windy, I would expect a fighter like Kotelnik or Khan to beat Morales.

But I'll happily admit that I thought Maidana would beat Morales and would stop him, but Morales proved me wrong, great fighter once again.

I really think this will be a case of Maidana not turning up on the night rather than Morales rolling back the years... I'd still worry about him facing off against any of the top 140 or 135lbers

D4thincarnation wrote:

HumanWindmill wrote:

D4thincarnation wrote:

HumanWindmill wrote:

D4thincarnation wrote:Styles make fights and Morales regardless of age had the style to cause Maidana problems. Morales has a great chin, and saw something in Maidana that he new he could exploit.

Morales, of course, has a history of exploiting weaknesses.

Great fighter, but well past his best, nonetheless.

Show what a great fighter he is even past his best he put on a great performance like that. In his retirement, he was drinking and eating loads ballooned up to over 200lbs and not training. Just to even get back into fighting condition is a remarkable feat and then to produce that performance, simply great.

Youth and power are no substitute for experience and skills.

Quite so.

Imagine if somebody had written him off once, only to reassess him going into the Maidana fight ? That truly would highlight a terrible lack of judgement and inconsistency, now wouldn't it ?

Styles make fights Windy, I would expect a fighter like Kotelnik or Khan to beat Morales.

But I'll happily admit that I thought Maidana would beat Morales and would stop him, but Morales proved me wrong, great fighter once again.

Indeed.

Why would you back Kotelnik over Morales?

wow_junky wrote:I really think this will be a case of Maidana not turning up on the night rather than Morales rolling back the years... I'd still worry about him facing off against any of the top 140 or 135lbers

He show great skills avoiding those punches, even with one eye closed over from the first round. Beautiful combinations, left and right straight down the middle stopped Maidana in his tracks a few time and some well timed uppercuts.

Thats Morales looking good, not Maidana looking bad.

No you are right..I thought Maidana looked like Leonard/Hagler rolled into one..

Morales looked decent, but lets not kid ourselves, it was one of the sloppiest offensive performances in a headline fight for ages by Maidana.

Scottrf wrote:Morales looked decent, but lets not kid ourselves, it was one of the sloppiest offensive performances in a headline fight for ages by Maidana.

You could have said the same thing about Maidana performance against Khan up to the 10th round. Maidana also caught Morales with a monster shot in the 10th and that took a bit of fight out of him allowing Maidana to win the last two rounds.

You could have said that about Maidana vs Khan
---------------------------------------------------------------

He's not talking about that he's rubbishing your take on Morales-Maidana and rightly so..Stop changing the argument.

D4thincarnation wrote:

Scottrf wrote:Morales looked decent, but lets not kid ourselves, it was one of the sloppiest offensive performances in a headline fight for ages by Maidana.

You could have said the same thing about Maidana performance against Khan up to the 10th round. Maidana also caught Morales with a monster shot in the 10th and that took a bit of fight out of him allowing Maidana to win the last two rounds.

I'm missing the point of the argument?

The debate is whether Morales has detracted from Khan's win over Maidana. You seem to be saying that Maidana isn't that good d4.

Do you then agree that Morales has taken away from Khan's win?

oxring wrote:

D4thincarnation wrote:

Scottrf wrote:Morales looked decent, but lets not kid ourselves, it was one of the sloppiest offensive performances in a headline fight for ages by Maidana.

You could have said the same thing about Maidana performance against Khan up to the 10th round. Maidana also caught Morales with a monster shot in the 10th and that took a bit of fight out of him allowing Maidana to win the last two rounds.

I'm missing the point of the argument?

The debate is whether Morales has detracted from Khan's win over Maidana. You seem to be saying that Maidana isn't that good d4.

Do you then agree that Morales has taken away from Khan's win?

No Maidana is a pressure fighter, and against a fighter like Khan he will look bad for most of the fight until he can make that pressure pay off.

Morales, pressure, what pressure, he has been there and done that, Maidana's style was not going to faze him.

Boxing is fought in styles, particular style are more effective against other styles, Morales can pick fighters off while Khan fights on the outside and uses his great jab, Morales allows the punches to come and uses his timing to counter, Maidana runs full steam through a jab and goes with wild swings and powerful uppercuts something Khan clearly doesn't like because he's not particularly good on the inside.
Also the fact that Khan still won the fair even though the way he fights isn't comfortable with the way Maidana fights also the fact he took him on when he was classed as the biggest hitter in the division even though he is suspected to a soft chin you have to give him a lot of credit for.

I don't think it has taken away that much, because a lot of Khan's weaknesses were pointed out after Maidana, admittedly not by many. I seem to remember TRUSS doing the same, so don't think he's being revisionist. We knew that Maidana wasn't the best technician, and so the majority prediction was that Khan would outbox him but could be caught. When Khan didn't have control for much of the fight, you have to see weaknesses there.

Styles make fights and a veteran like Morales is more likely to take advantage of Maidana's technical weaknesses than Khan, who relies a little too much on physical gifts at the moment. However, he is a work in progress and has talent.

Boxing is fought in styles.......

Rubbish when a guy is a face first plodder like Maidana you should be able to sort him out......

Come on..

Scottrf wrote:I don't think it has taken away that much, because a lot of Khan's weaknesses were pointed out after Maidana, admittedly not by many. I seem to remember TRUSS doing the same, so don't think he's being revisionist. We knew that Maidana wasn't the best technician, and so the majority prediction was that Khan would outbox him but could be caught. When Khan didn't have control for much of the fight, you have to see weaknesses there.

Styles make fights and a veteran like Morales is more likely to take advantage of Maidana's technical weaknesses than Khan, who relies a little too much on physical gifts at the moment. However, he is a work in progress and has talent.

Great inside fighting from Morales to, something what Khan still has to work on.

Morales put Maidana on the back foot a few time, not many people have done that before.

Yes but Morales was past it and his recent record has been ordinary.

Take care not to lull the unsuspecting by trying to make Morales out to be somewhere near his peak.

Despite his valiant performance, Morales looked/is a shot fighter to me.

But I think this simply could be a case of "styles make fights".

Morales may have pushed Maidana close but would anyone here seriously give the current version of El Terrible any chance against Khan? I wouldnt.

I think wow_junky raises a valid point regarding Maidana's motivation.
I feel the Argentine slugger may have underestimated Morales and gave us a sloppy performance since he was expecting to blow Morales away easily.

However, against Khan, Maidana knew he was in a world title fight against a young and very skilled champion. He possibly came into that fight with far more focus and drive.

Having said that, I do think Khan's performance against Maidana, while perhaps answering the doubts regarding his chin, also exposed some stylistic flaws in his game. I believe Emmanual Steward has made a similar comment.

At first I was quietly confident of Khan's chances against Bradley, now I'm not to sure. Bradley may not be as hard-hitting and Maidana, but he's more skilled and is a good inside fighter (something Khan doesnt appear to be).

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Yes but Morales was past it and his recent record has been ordinary.

Take care not to lull the unsuspecting by trying to make Morales out to be somewhere near his peak.

Me? Of course not, and that's the only reason he couldn't take advantage enough when he made opportunities. Khan should have dealt better with Maidana, that much I agree. But I think it was the style of fighter he will have more problems with. A boxer who stays at range will make Khan look good, for all but the very best at least.

It was aimed at d4........Been agreeing with your posts on here up to now....

He's trying to spin the Mosley-Manny fight by bigging up experience etc...

Spinks had tons of it before Tyson if I recall.

Let's put this in context: a past-his-best, blown-up super bantamweight who hasn't had a big, meaningful win since 2005, and then at super featherweight, managed to surprised both fans and pundits alike by not only lasting the distance, but making it a close fight against one of the supposed top light welterweights. Of course that puts Khan's win in a different light. Styles can be attributed to a degree, but almost everyone was actually fearful for Morales's health in this one. Perhaps Maidana had an off-night, but regardless of that, he still has been shown up by a guy who he should by rights have demolished.

Balti I think it's the fact like Gatti he basically fights with his face and walks in to an opponent in a straight line that smashes out all this awkward style talk....

Look at Floyd-Gatti, Floyd-Hatton...Great fighters sort out the one dimensional types.....

As no doubt Oscar etc would have done....

Khan did win though in fairness.

Morales had experience in those types of fights as well, he excels in that type of fight.

Very good.

This is a simple case of styles making fights.

Morales has been in high pressure situations all his career in the ring, just watch the first Barrera fight to see he has the ability to take a shot, fight up close, slip and counter, turn his opponent and generally fight fire with fire. He may be past his best but his experience added to maidanas predictable, stalking style meant that he was able to look good.

Khan is tall and rangy at 140, as well as being quick(but contrary to what some have said on this thread, not powerful). This means he looks good against guys that stand off him and try to box, such as kotelnik and malignaagi, who we all agreed were stylistically made for him. What khan is not good at is handling pressure. His clumsy footwork leaves him vulnerable when trying to fight fire with fire, and when he tries to run he tends to do it in straight lines leaving himself open to wide looping shots like the ones maidana hit him with. Maidana hit him far to easily up close too. Khan can stick to a gameplan when his opponents let him, but when pressured he reverts to going offensive - the reason is because he has no natural defensive instincts, just a learned defense from Freddie Roach that he forgets in the heat of battle, which of course is where he is most vulnerable.

Bradley is a better pressure fighter than maidana - he is physically stronger, quicker up close, more accurate. He is also better conditioned and fights hard in the championship rounds. He also throws the kind of wide looping shots that khan is vulnerable too. It's for these reasons I firmly believe Bradley will stop khan late on - the wrong style for khan and too physically strong.

In summary - it's not a case of morales loss making khans win look bad, because we all know styles make fights. But it does highlight further khans inferior ability to cope with pressure, because it's the kind of nouse and instinct morales posseses that will cope with it - something khan seems to lack. Bradley beats Khan. And I scored maidana v morales a draw, but wouldn't argue with a tight win either way so a MD for maidana was particularly unfair.

115-113 maidana

Styles didn't make fights when Honey beat curry did it....oh no.

He was an overrated chump who got a good slapping by the beter man..

I guess styles make fights when posters have a fan disposition towards the guy that struggled..

Hypocrites.

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Styles didn't make fights when Honey beat curry did it....oh no.

He was an overrated chump who got a good slapping by the beter man..

I guess styles make fights when posters have a fan disposition towards the guy that struggled..

Hypocrites.

Not at all Truss. I don't have a 'fan disposition' toward Khan, in fact I'm highly critical of him in my post. Simply saying that Morales performance doesn't detract from Khans win, what it does is just further highlights khans inability to deal with pressure as a past it guy handled maidanas pressure better than khan knows how to. Barrera may have been past it when he fought khan, but khan's speed and rangey style dealth with him easier than morales ever did or ever would. Different fighters handle common opponents differently due to physical attributes and fighting style. That's a fact.

A finished Barrera didn't tell us anything.....

A finished Morales told us everything..

I knew you'd bite you turkey..

Have you become a dad yet or have I got you mixed up with someone else..

The Morales Maidana fight has to surely raise questions about Khan!

Styles do of course make fights but the fact that Morales at this stage in his career, and having been written off by all experts and the large majority of boxing fans, gave Maidana so much trouble must show that Khan's performance wasn't all that.

Khan showed great heart and guts as he was taking a heck of a beating so full credit there, but as for that fight propelling him up the pound for pound rankings and being a superstar talent, I can't buy it just yet.

He has some tremendous natural athletic ability but provided he wins against McCloskey, the Bradley fight will show us much more. Bradley is a pressure fighter but with more intelligence and speed than Maidana, so we'll see how Khan fares.

The jury is still very much out for me.

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:A finished Barrera didn't tell us anything.....

A finished Morales told us everything..

I knew you'd bite you turkey..

Have you become a dad yet or have I got you mixed up with someone else..

My boy is 5 months now Truss, you must be thinking of someone else.

Personally I don't rate maidana but I knew he'd give khan a hard time because of the way khan fights and his weaknesses. Those same weaknesses are why I'd heavily back Bradley to defeat khan. But khan handled kotelnik and paulie - better technical fighters than maidana - with ease. The situation here tells me something I already knew - that even a shot morales can live with heavy pressure better than khan. Ive been highlighting this very problem with khan for ages. But khan showed bottle to get through that fight so I'm loathe to discredit it, even though I'm not his no1 fan. To be fair to khan he will beat better fighters than maidana with greater ease.

How long til Mrs Truss drops your minor indiscretion?

No it was you it's just I'm hitting middle age and going senile..

Glad all is well..sure the milkman is well pleased!!!

Khan's height advantage gives him a big edge on fighters...pillow punching Paulie was never going to harm him...

Khan has yet to beat anybody world class but the mcloskey fight should give us more answers.

Maidana seemed to be tired pretty early on so I kinda think he took this fight lightly.

If not then I think it does take something away from Khans win

Well you're never going to know are you!!!!!

I think you have to look at the win in the context of how Khan is rated or how you rate him personally.

If you think Khan is just a good fighter then the win is a good solid win.

However if you are talking about Khan as a kind of p4p star then the win isnt that good because its shown up some big deficincies in Khan that would be an argument against him being worthy of super status.

For all his skills (and he does have them). He seems to only fight in one way. He didnt show any ability to adjust to what is a definate one dimensional fighter. His only option was to get on his bike. He has no inside game (could be a crucial weakness against Bradley). Not particularly effective at countering Maidana despite serious handspeed advantages (see how Morales did it effectively).

These are weaknesses I saw anyway. However he could just have been under strict orders to hit and run and not do anything else. He might be better at the above than he displayed in that particular fight. A rematch would interesting because if Khan failed to beat MAidana more convincingly it would indicate to me he just doesnt have the adaptability and is destined to fight the same style over and over.

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Boxing is fought in styles.......

Rubbish when a guy is a face first plodder like Maidana you should be able to sort him out......

Come on..

That being said Cotto should have easily beaten Margarito, right?

Sugar Boy Sweetie wrote:
Bradley is a better pressure fighter than maidana - he is physically stronger, quicker up close, more accurate. He is also better conditioned and fights hard in the championship rounds. He also throws the kind of wide looping shots that khan is vulnerable too. It's for these reasons I firmly believe Bradley will stop khan late on - the wrong style for khan and too physically strong.

Though i would have Bradley the slight favorite, i can only see him winning on points. The only way a stoppage would happen would be due to a cut. Even with Khan's suspect chin and Bradley's workrate I just dont think he have enough power to wear him down late on to cause a stoppage.

Can just see Khan doing what he did to Kotelnik on him, personally.