England v South Africa, Lords, 3rd Test Thread

[Duty281]

First topic message reminder :

The equation is simple. If England win, they remain number 1. If South Africa avoid defeat, they move up to number 1 and will officially be the best Test team in the World.

England: 1 Andrew Strauss (capt), 2 Alastair Cook, 3 Jonathan Trott, 4 Ian Bell, 5 James Taylor, 6 Jonny Bairstow, 7 Matt Prior (wk), 8 Stuart Broad, 9 Graeme Swann, 10 James Anderson, 11 Steven Finn

South Africa: 1 Graeme Smith (capt), 2 Alviro Petersen, 3 Hashim Amla, 4 Jacques Kallis, 5 AB de Villiers (wk), 6 Jacques Rudolph, 7 JP Duminy, 8 Vernon Philander, 9 Dale Steyn, 10 Morne Morkel, 11 Imran Tahir

Are you ready?

[Mad for Chelsea]

off topic, but have just found out England are ranked n°3 in the world in football not sure how that happened

Smith has listened to me: Morkel back on for a quick burst before stumps.

[alfie]

a bit surprised SA have kept Tahir on here. As the new ball will be on pretty much immediately tomorrow I'd have expected them to give Steyn or Morkel a quick burst...

Indeed . May be some queries on Steyn's fitness ...suggestions earlier on he was a bit sore...

But here is Morkel.

[Mike Selig]

You missed some very good cricket , Mike

So it seems. Thankfully the internet is full of very good highlight sources.

Crucial for England these two are still there for the 2nd new ball, if they can do that and take it on they could really get stuck in.

In fact if these two get through today it will be interesting to see what Smith does tomorrow morning - SA will be about 8-10 overs away from the new ball, so do you start with Tahir and risk playing the two guys in, or start with your strike bowlers but then can you take the new ball immediately? Some interesting tactics...

Predictably Tahir is off now, one final Morkel burst.

[eirebilly]

Just look at that average from Philander

[trebellbobaggins]

exactly what england didn't need then.

[eirebilly]

Dont worry Trebbs, Prior will stay positive, its the only way he knows how to play

[mystiroakey]

so carbon copy innings this.. Bairstow is quality..

[mystiroakey]

off topic, but have just found out England are ranked n°3 in the world in football not sure how that happened

Smith has listened to me: Morkel back on for a quick burst before stumps.

england have only lost two games in full time in over 3 years - thats why

[eirebilly]

I have been really impressed with Bairstow. A few loose shots aside, he has played a very mature and patient innings.

[Mad for Chelsea]

200 up for England as Bairstow clips a couple through the leg side. Might be time for two more overs this evening.

[eirebilly]

Well thats the 200 up

[alfie]

Bit uneasy seeing Bairstow looking so tense now ...clearly desperate to get through to the close , doesn't want to tighten up ...hopefully that two will relax him a bit...
200 up and Kallis back...second last over ?

[skyeman]

What an innings from JB coming in under such pressure.

If he can do it against SA, he can do it against anyone

[Mad for Chelsea]

not too sure why Kallis was brought on then? would have thought Tahir (or Duminy) would have been a better option.

Steyn to bowl the last over of the day.

[eirebilly]

I think that he is just winding down to the close alfie, he is still looking very solid

[skyeman]

Great day of Test cricket

[Mad for Chelsea]

Prior (somewhat fortunately) survives the final over of the day. This one is quite beautifully poised really, England about 100 behind with five wickets left.

Bairstow played very well for his 72 more of the same tomorrow please

I'm off to buy some food, see you later peeps

[eirebilly]

Stumps, one hell of a fightback by Bairstow, Bell and Prior

[alfie]

I think that he is just winding down to the close alfie, he is still looking very solid

True , Billy

He has done a great job. Just the same , I am happy to see Prior face the last over ...

Stumps 208/5. Top day of Test Cricket Top knock Bairstow

Evens ?

[Mike Selig]

Prior and Bairstow survive despite a couple of hairy moments.

Test match intruiguingly posed.

Well batted Jonny Bairstow, proving some doubters (and a few on here) wrong, and going some way to vindicating the decision to pick 6 batsmen (although we shouldn't too far go down the what if route).

As I said, SA have to decide whether they want to attack first thing tomorrow, or risk letting things drift for a few overs waiting for the new ball.

[skyeman]

Prior and Bairstow survive despite a couple of hairy moments.

Test match intruiguingly posed.

Well batted Jonny Bairstow, proving some doubters (and a few on here) wrong, and going some way to vindicating the decision to pick 6 batsmen (although we shouldn't too far go down the what if route).

As I said, SA have to decide whether they want to attack first thing tomorrow, or risk letting things drift for a few overs waiting for the new ball.

Good point, i think they will save Steyn and start with Philander/Kallis and Tahir.

[Mike Selig]

Thing is though, if you give Prior and Bairstow 8 overs they could easily get 30odd runs, and you don't really want them feeling settled when the new ball comes.

It's a tough dilemna. On the whole I might go Morkel and Philander for a couple of overs, then Tahir.

[skyeman]

Who wants to be a captain

[paulscholes]

KP in for Taylor next test JB done enough to keep his place

[Mad for Chelsea]

it's an interesting point about how SA open up tomorrow. You don't want to give Prior and Bairstow time to settle, but at the same time if you go with your strike bowlers and they dont make the breakthrough you may be stuck into either giving the new ball to say Kallis or delaying it. Then there's the fact Prior has got out to Tahir a couple of times this series which may tempt Smith into starting with him (though Bairstow played him pretty comfortably today).

All in all, I'd probably go down the "Mike Selig" route: give Morkel and Steyn a couple of overs each to see if they can break through and then switch to Tahir and Kallis until the new ball is due...

[Mike Selig]

KP in for Taylor next test JB done enough to keep his place

People should stop making definitive pronouncements without pausing to think. Will you say the same if Bairstow gets out first ball tomorrow and Taylor scores a match-winning hundred in the 4th innings? We're not even half-way through the test, it's silly to start talking about the next one.

After the series against the West Indies, pundits were lining up to say that Bairstow was rubbish, Taylor should have played etc. You'd think people would learn...

They are both very fine young players with strengths and weaknesses, and possibly a bright future ahead of them.

[mystiroakey]

both to stay- both are talented and i am happy to keep em both in the side for a year minimum.

Kp in for strauss. but cook and bell to open , cook captain and KP 3rd- job done.

[mystiroakey]

Mike if we all paused to think forums probally wouldnt exist!

[skyeman]

KP in for Taylor next test JB done enough to keep his place

Can,t argue with that, if they can all sought it.

They have to think what is best for England and the fans.

[Liam]

cracking day of test cricket. Brilliant knock from Bairstow, proving this poster wrong. Now he needs to score a big hundred. Prior is in fantastic form at the moment and now has the chance to make a hundred himself.

Hopefully we can still make 400+, its crucial we get past 400 if i'm honest and hopefully we can put SA on the ropes again in their 2nd innings.

[skyeman]

Broad's pace is a problem for me. What is the problem and are England hiding something about it? If so why is he playing.
This is still a batting track and we still need another 10 wkts.

[mystiroakey]

broad still gets wickets, i doubt he is injured, just concentrating on line and length

[Mike Selig]

They have to think what is best for England

Yes

and the fans.

No.

[Mike Selig]

Broad's pace is a problem for me. What is the problem and are England hiding something about it? If so why is he playing.
This is still a batting track and we still need another 10 wkts.

I agree. He may be concentrating on line and length, but you shouldn't go from high 80s to barely 80 mph.

It could just be a new make of speed-gun? Finn isn't hitting 90 like he was, and Anderson is more low 80s than high 80s; Bresnan was down on pace also?

Or it could be something more...

[skyeman]

broad still gets wickets, i doubt he is injured, just concentrating on line and length

i
9 wkts this series at over 39 is not Broad like, hence is speed concerns me. Why is it so far down, when it was up he still had control.

[Liam]

I was wondering the same with Broad. Strange that he genuinely is averaging 79/80mph. Obviously Glenn McGrath didn't have any problems but broad is no glenn.

In fairness to Finn, not many quicks can bowl 90mph consistently for a 6-7 over spell, especially knowing you have many more overs to bowl later in the day. In ODI cricket, you'll only have 5/6 overs for a 1st spell out of 10 all together so you put everything into that 4 overs.

[mystiroakey]

39 isnt good is it

[ShankyCricket]

What do people think about Strauss? Has it got to a point where it has become "untenable"?

[skyeman]

They have to think what is best for England

Yes

and the fans.

No.

I should have said for some fans {in their eyes}. Even then it is what is best for England.

[Liam]

Strauss should step down at the end of the series. Everyone knows when to go, look at Collingwood, he knew his time was up. He isn't getting runs and Cook is in a good position to take over with the success of the ODI side.

[mystiroakey]

Us fans rarely know whats best for england- but KP in a fully motivated functioning team is

[skyeman]

Strauss should step down at the end of the series. Everyone knows when to go, look at Collingwood, he knew his time was up. He isn't getting runs and Cook is in a good position to take over with the success of the ODI side.

But Collingwood did not want to go. He was pushed. Strauss is the most successful England captain in many many years. He won't be pushed,

He will know when.

[Shelsey93]

Just got back in from Lord's after watching what I thought was an enthralling days cricket.

I felt England did pretty well to bowl SA out in about an hour this morning. Philander is a fair player (until a few years ago he was a Luke Wright-type one-day all-rounder until he really worked on his bowling), and Steyn and Morkel can hold the bat, so we had to work for the wickets and we did. It was nice to see some attacking fields in place - 4 slips at one stage - and all the bowlers seemed to bowl good lines, and eventually get their reward.

Up to lunch I thought Strauss looked really good - when he took 8 from his first 3 balls I thought we were going to see something special today - but alas he was disappointingly bowled just before lunch to dampen spirits amongst the crowd.

The next 3 wickets going down were the result of good bowling and at times slightly flustered batting. Nobody terribly gave their wicket away, but also I can't remember anyone getting out to a jaffa.

Well done to Bell and Bairstow on resurrecting things , but I'd have liked to have seen Bell go on further - he hasn't scored a ton for a year now, and I think we need a lead to make life easier. Bairstow showed that the short ball talk was massively over-player, although he did have a shaky start to his innings and was also shaky towards the end.

So, where does this game go from here? We must have a good first session tomorrow. If we are bowled out for 250 or even 300 this match will be an uphill struggle because even a good bowling display would likely leave us chasing 200+, which is never easy in the fourth innings.

I agree with Mike's sentiments re Taylor and Bairstow. Both are ready for Test cricket - the reason they've been picked - but neither can be expected to walk out and score a 100 every time they bat. For me it remains questionable as to whether both or either play in India - Bopara should return (depending on whether he gets any cricket before the end of the season, and the nature of his 'personal issue'), 5 bowlers are a distinct possibility (particularly if we feel the need to play two spinners) and then there is the question of **.

[ShankyCricket]

Dont really understand why Bopara has earned the right to walk back into the side. The circumstances, in which, he had to leave, was unfortunate, of course but its not as if he scored a hundred in the Oval Test. Ok, if the youngsters fail, bring him back. Not sure why that should happen now given that both Taylor and JB have looked far more comfortable than Bops has ever done in his test career.

Ravi is unlucky but just don't see any cricketing logic in him just walking back into the side.

[skyeman]

Dont really understand why Bopara has earned the right to walk back into the side. The circumstances, in which, he had to leave, was unfortunate, of course but its not as if he scored a hundred in the Oval Test. Ok, if the youngsters fail, bring him back. Not sure why that should happen now given that both Taylor and JB have looked far more comfortable than Bops has ever done in his test career.

Ravi is unlucky but just don't see any cricketing logic in him just walking back into the side.

Quite agree. But a bit harsh about never being comfortable. Remember the three successive hundreds.

But for me he now has a Test cricketing mind like Ramprakash or Hick. In other words. NEVER gonna cut it in Tests.

[Shelsey93]

Dont really understand why Bopara has earned the right to walk back into the side. The circumstances, in which, he had to leave, was unfortunate, of course but its not as if he scored a hundred in the Oval Test. Ok, if the youngsters fail, bring him back. Not sure why that should happen now given that both Taylor and JB have looked far more comfortable than Bops has ever done in his test career.

Ravi is unlucky but just don't see any cricketing logic in him just walking back into the side.

Bopara has been deserving of a run - that is a couple of series - for quite some time now. Bad luck has meant that hasn't happened so far. Were Bairstow or Taylor to score a ton he would demand selection himself, but of course if ** doesn't return their could still be two spots available. But to say that Bairstow/ Taylor have looked more comfortable than Bopara ever has is wrong - Ravi has 3 Test hundreds and played a couple of decent innings at The Oval (as decent as Taylor's at Headingley), even though it is the way he got out that we tend to remember.

As I said before we don't know what the 'personal issues' were. I wouldn't like to speculate but different 'personal issues' can have varying impacts on how soon and at what level the player can return.

[mystiroakey]

bops gone- bairstow and taylor have both allready shown enough positives , bops bowling in test isnt much more effective than kps or trotts

[msp83]

South Africa's lower order made a world of difference in getting them pass 300 with Philander, Steyn and Morkel, all chipping in with important runs. England's lower order batting ability has been a significant factor in them reaching the top position in test rankings. But from the last winter onwards, lower order runs hasn't been flowing as they used to be for some time. England are without Bresnan, but both Broad and Swann are capable. Swann's test best is against the Saffers isn't it?
But if SA could get the overnight batters separated early tomorrow, then facing up to the new ball against Steyn, Morkel and Philander will be a far more dificult job for the lower order. But if Bairstow and Prior could see the first half hour and early overs with the new ball off, then England could hope to establish a decent lead that would put some pressure on SA.
South Africa should keep the intensity up in the morning, give Morkel and Kallis the go ahead in the morning with a couple of overs from Tahir and perhaps Duminy, and then Steyn and Philander with the new ball. If they could restrict England to less than 350, then it would be advantage South Africa and the job will be up to their strong solid batting lineup to set up a dificult 4th innings for England.

[Mike Selig]

The argument about Bopara is an interesting one.

Shelsey contends (IMO correctly) that had things gone to plan Bopara, having been waiting for a second chance (I don't count his ridiculous selection in Sri Lanka as a chance) for a while now and finally got it, would have had the two summer test series to try and cemment his place, but has been denied this through (presumably) no fault of his own. The argument then goes that unless the person replacing him makes himself undroppable then nothing has changed, and Bopara still deserves his chance. This is the "Bopara is the man in possession" argument in short.

The counter-argument is that "undroppable" is not required, because Bopara was never established in the first place (i.e. he was never "in possession") and that if someone has shown more aptitude during this stint than Bopara did during his previous one they deserve the chance to establish themselves.

I'm not sure where I sit to be perfectly honest. Fence-time...

[Shelsey93]

South Africa's lower order made a world of difference in getting them pass 300 with Philander, Steyn and Morkel, all chipping in with important runs. England's lower order batting ability has been a significant factor in them reaching the top position in test rankings. But from the last winter onwards, lower order runs hasn't been flowing as they used to be for some time. England are without Bresnan, but both Broad and Swann are capable. Swann's test best is against the Saffers isn't it?
But if SA could get the overnight batters separated early tomorrow, then facing up to the new ball against Steyn, Morkel and Philander will be a far more dificult job for the lower order. But if Bairstow and Prior could see the first half hour and early overs with the new ball off, then England could hope to establish a decent lead that would put some pressure on SA.
South Africa should keep the intensity up in the morning, give Morkel and Kallis the go ahead in the morning with a couple of overs from Tahir and perhaps Duminy, and then Steyn and Philander with the new ball. If they could restrict England to less than 350, then it would be advantage South Africa and the job will be up to their strong solid batting lineup to set up a dificult 4th innings for England.

I agree. The most disappointing aspect of England's performances over the last year is that previous strengths - daddy hundreds and hence massive totals, superb fielding standards and lower order batting - haven't quite delivered in the way they were previously.

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