England v South Africa, Lords, 3rd Test Thread

[Duty281]

First topic message reminder :

The equation is simple. If England win, they remain number 1. If South Africa avoid defeat, they move up to number 1 and will officially be the best Test team in the World.

England: 1 Andrew Strauss (capt), 2 Alastair Cook, 3 Jonathan Trott, 4 Ian Bell, 5 James Taylor, 6 Jonny Bairstow, 7 Matt Prior (wk), 8 Stuart Broad, 9 Graeme Swann, 10 James Anderson, 11 Steven Finn

South Africa: 1 Graeme Smith (capt), 2 Alviro Petersen, 3 Hashim Amla, 4 Jacques Kallis, 5 AB de Villiers (wk), 6 Jacques Rudolph, 7 JP Duminy, 8 Vernon Philander, 9 Dale Steyn, 10 Morne Morkel, 11 Imran Tahir

Are you ready?

[msp83]

Smith hasn't got going as yet, he's been a bit edgy and the timing isn't quite there.

[alfie]

Petersen is one player who has performed better than expected on this tour...I had expected him to be a source of early breakthroughs for England , but he has stood up pretty well , helping to make things very hard work for England's bowlers.
Time for Finn I think.

[KP_fan]

It's a test match hanging in balance apparently.......but that Eng bats last makes it 60-40 in SA's favor.

I think most likely SA will get a lead of between 30 to 50 today.......and coupled with the fact they will bowl at Eng on D5 makes it tilted in SA favour.

However less lilkely but very much possible with Bairtstow, Prior, Broad and Swann can all throw their weights.....and get Eng Eng a lead of about 50......then the game will be at par...the lead being offsetby "batting last factor".


After the debacle in the first test...Eng have competed hard against a superior team...to their credit......on the back of KP in T2 and rallying throuhg Anderson/Finn/ Bairstow so far.

Verdict: 60-40 in SA favor as of now.

Going as per the script......SA still stands at 60-40 ahead.

Eng failed to get up by 50+ and make it evens......SA failed to nail them about 30 odd short and failed to make to 70-30ish.

Eng did as well as they could against the quality of SA bolwing.......the only missed opportunity was to score 30 to 40 odd extra runs against the old ball this morning.

--Every little bit will count in this test....and in the end as per the script England will lose this test in the last session of D5.

--SA will give Eng between 300 to 350ish to chase

--instead of playing for a draw, Flower will play to feed the statistical monkey of No.1 hanging around his neck...and go for "positive win"...loose quick wickets and the test match.
--SA will use the "No.1 Rope" to hang flower and eng here...when the saner approach of let's draw here to a superior team,....keep more ICC points in hand and catch up later.

I suppose your decision would to be play for a draw in a series you are losing one -nil

If it goes per the script..i.e Eng given to chase 300-350 playing for a draw would be the saner option knowing that
their only fast scoring batsman KP is not playing...given the fraility of their own batting, D5 pitch, pressure of chase and quality of bolwing draw is a good result:
also a draw ensures

--iMargin of defeat 1-0 is looking more respectable than a 2-0
--will keep the ICC ranking points diffrential smaller.......keeping regianing No.1 within easier distance for England

[ShahenshahG]

I always worry about thoe kind of innings from brilliant players msp, sometimes they become a little more watchful a little more focused and eventually settle in better than they would if they were in a purple patch. Then a Poopie storm cometh.

[alfie]

I have been enthralled by this test. Worthy or a number one battle

Absolutely ! Such a pity it is not a proper five match series...

[eirebilly]

I have been enthralled by this test. Worthy or a number one battle

Absolutely ! Such a pity it is not a proper five match series...

Yeah, much prefer the 5 match series, these 3 match series are just too short.

[skyeman]

Nice knowing smile on the umps face for that lbw shout.

[ShahenshahG]

It's a test match hanging in balance apparently.......but that Eng bats last makes it 60-40 in SA's favor.

I think most likely SA will get a lead of between 30 to 50 today.......and coupled with the fact they will bowl at Eng on D5 makes it tilted in SA favour.

However less lilkely but very much possible with Bairtstow, Prior, Broad and Swann can all throw their weights.....and get Eng Eng a lead of about 50......then the game will be at par...the lead being offsetby "batting last factor".


After the debacle in the first test...Eng have competed hard against a superior team...to their credit......on the back of KP in T2 and rallying throuhg Anderson/Finn/ Bairstow so far.

Verdict: 60-40 in SA favor as of now.

Going as per the script......SA still stands at 60-40 ahead.

Eng failed to get up by 50+ and make it evens......SA failed to nail them about 30 odd short and failed to make to 70-30ish.

Eng did as well as they could against the quality of SA bolwing.......the only missed opportunity was to score 30 to 40 odd extra runs against the old ball this morning.

--Every little bit will count in this test....and in the end as per the script England will lose this test in the last session of D5.

--SA will give Eng between 300 to 350ish to chase

--instead of playing for a draw, Flower will play to feed the statistical monkey of No.1 hanging around his neck...and go for "positive win"...loose quick wickets and the test match.
--SA will use the "No.1 Rope" to hang flower and eng here...when the saner approach of let's draw here to a superior team,....keep more ICC points in hand and catch up later.

I suppose your decision would to be play for a draw in a series you are losing one -nil

If it goes per the script..i.e Eng given to chase 300-350 playing for a draw would be the saner option knowing that
their only fast scoring batsman KP is not playing...given the fraility of their own batting, D5 pitch, pressure of chase and quality of bolwing draw is a good result:
also a draw ensures

--iMargin of defeat 1-0 is looking more respectable than a 2-0
--will keep the ICC ranking points diffrential smaller.......keeping regianing No.1 within easier distance for England

How meek

[Mike Selig]

Not looking good for England. No movement to speak of with the new ball, and Smith beginning to look more settled.

Over to Swann.

[Duty281]

Come on Swanny!

[eirebilly]

Very interesting decision by Strauss...

[skyeman]

As i am sure most would, we would rather lose 2-0 than not giving it a fight.

Again not worth it, KP's dad.

[alfie]

To KP fan : this " number one ranking" thing is really just a by-product of good series results. You play to win series , or draw them if you cannot ; or you should.
The day the ranking becomes more important than winning the Ashes , or beating SA or India etc , will be the day Test Cricket really does sell its soul to the marketing men.

[KP_fan]

As i am sure most would, we would rather lose 2-0 than not giving it a fight.

Ha ha this is precisely the "hang Eng anfd Flower with thei No.1 Rope" syndorme.

[Duty281]

As i am sure most would, we would rather lose 2-0 than not giving it a fight.

Ha ha this is precisely the "hang Eng anfd Flower with thei No.1 Rope" syndorme.

What are you on about? I'd always rather lose 2-0 than not give it a fight. It's nothing to do with being No.1.

[KP_fan]

To KP fan : this " number one ranking" thing is really just a by-product of good series results. You play to win series , or draw them if you cannot ; or you should.
The day the ranking becomes more important than winning the Ashes , or beating SA or India etc , will be the day Test Cricket really does sell its soul to the marketing men.

correct.
rather than playing to the realistic match situation....if a team plays to fit the bill of a statsitical match situation.....
is what would be called " Rope of Ranking to hang themself"

[alfie]

Not looking good for England. No movement to speak of with the new ball, and Smith beginning to look more settled.

Over to Swann.

True. Guess we knew it was likely to be hard work , but would have liked to see an early strike. Or two.
Smith has been rather restrained , but he looks less nervous now.
Would really like to get one before tea , but not sure where it is coming from.

[skyeman]

As i am sure most would, we would rather lose 2-0 than not giving it a fight.

Ha ha this is precisely the "hang Eng anfd Flower with thei No.1 Rope" syndorme.

Not at all, why settle for a draw when you can fight for a win.

I refer to an earlier post when the I word was mentioned against you.

[Mike Selig]

A bit of turn there.

Wonder if Swann should come over the wicket to Smith? Get Smith playing against the angle as well; sure it takes LBW out of the equation, but I can only remember Swann getting Smith LBW once.

[skyeman]

As i am sure most would, we would rather lose 2-0 than not giving it a fight.

Ha ha this is precisely the "hang Eng anfd Flower with thei No.1 Rope" syndorme.

Not at all, why settle for a draw when you can fight for a win.

I refer to an earlier post when the I word was mentioned against you.

When, if you don,t you lose anyway

Unless you stop wumming this is the last time that i will correspode with you. EVER

[alfie]

To KP fan : this " number one ranking" thing is really just a by-product of good series results. You play to win series , or draw them if you cannot ; or you should.
The day the ranking becomes more important than winning the Ashes , or beating SA or India etc , will be the day Test Cricket really does sell its soul to the marketing men.

correct.
rather than playing to the realistic match situation....if a team plays to fit the bill of a statsitical match situation.....
is what would be called " Rope of Ranking to hang themself"

No No No ...I am not agreeing with you at all : what I am saying is England must try to draw the series for its own sake , rather than accepting a tame draw to stay close to top in the rankings...forget the confounded rankings and play to win this Test Match.

[KP_fan]

As i am sure most would, we would rather lose 2-0 than not giving it a fight.

Ha ha this is precisely the "hang Eng anfd Flower with thei No.1 Rope" syndorme.

Not at all, why settle for a draw when you can fight for a win.

I refer to an earlier post when the I word was mentioned against you.

Fight for a win applies...if win is realistic scenario.....300-350 chase makes draw as thew most favourable option for Eng



I word youu mean Idiot word was used against me by one poster called Mike Selig ( you mean for me ?)

I don't know what he meant nor care...it was off topic.
If it was used for me as you imply...it shows a weakness in cricketing arguments from that poster...attack personally...for if they had logic...they would let logic speak.

mods are there to look at it......and do the necessary.......if it is left there denigrates the standard of forum and discussion.

[Duty281]

33/0 at tea. The new ball paid no dividends, but England are still well in it.

[skyeman]

As i am sure most would, we would rather lose 2-0 than not giving it a fight.

Ha ha this is precisely the "hang Eng anfd Flower with thei No.1 Rope" syndorme.

Not at all, why settle for a draw when you can fight for a win.

I refer to an earlier post when the I word was mentioned against you.

Fight for a win applies...if win is realistic scenario.....300-350 chase makes draw as thew most favourable option for Eng



I word youu mean Idiot word was used against me by one poster called Mike Selig ( you mean for me ?)

I don't know what he meant nor care...it was off topic.
If it was used for me as you imply...it shows a weakness in cricketing arguments from that poster...attack personally...for if they had logic...they would let logic speak.

mods are there to look at it......and do the necessary.......if it is left there denigrates the standard of forum and discussion.

OK, no wumming there, and i repeat, what is the point in settling for a draw when you lose anyway.

[Mike Selig]

So SA get through to tea without losing a wicket - they'll be very pleased with that.

Anderson I felt was a bit too short when the ball was new and had a chance to swing.

England bowled tidily, and Smith had a couple of slices of luck. It's vital England make SA work for their runs, a couple of wickets and it's a different ball game, but right now SA will be happy with their day's work.

[KP_fan]

Broad ineffective......with his 127kph stuff and the wekest link .

In a close contest like this Eng cannot afford a specialist bowler to get away scoring only 15 runs

[alfie]

So tea with SA holding the advantage.

England will be disappointed not to have made inroads , and also with the lack of movement for the bowlers...it does indeed look as if they are going to have to work hard for their wickets.

But really we suspected batting would be reasonably easy in terms of pitch conditions , as it will probably be when England set out on their run chase. It will be a case of applying pressure whenever they can , and who reacts better to the situation.

Of course the placid pitch also raises the chance that SA will be able to just bat England out of it with a long patient grind. I hope that doesn't happen , and I somehow think it won't ...not sure how , but I think this game will still have some twists and turns.

[skyeman]

Broad ineffective......with his 127kph stuff and the wekest link .

In a close contest like this Eng cannot afford a specialist bowler to get away scoring only 15 runs

What?

[Duty281]

4 wickets should be the aim in this final session for England, do that and we're on top.

[Mike Selig]

I firmly believe England will have at least one chance (a moment to seize if you like) to get ahead of this test and give themselves a shot at winning.

The pitch still has pace and bounce which is good news because edges will generally carry (and the bounce will help Swann).

[skyeman]

Time to look at it at tea, and come back out like SA did this morning. These good bowlers are more than capable of it.

Give um hell guys.

[Mad for Chelsea]

Pitch looks like a typical Lords pitch, flattens out after days 1 and 2, and doesn't do a whole deal thereafter. However there is a bit of spin there for Swann, so hope for England.

I agree with Mike: 300 in the fourth innings far from impossible.

[Mike Selig]

Swann looking dangerous, that was a bit of a desperate review though.

[Duty281]

England lose their first review. Swann bowling well.

[alfie]

They would certainly chase 300 with serious intent , especially as the pitch may end up being slower and easier...still would be tough against this opponent , but a contest between the two best teams is always going to be tough.
They would probably have time too , judging from the number of overs left in the match , and the probable time it would take SA to get that lead.

The problem would be if they pushed on significantly past that score though , as then we might be running out of time...


Good ball from Swann ...but a dreadful waste of a review from Strauss ...what was he thinking ?

[KP_fan]

Swann turning it square from the rough and eng wasting a referral...........dangerous signs for Emg when Tahir will bowl on D5.

even 250 will be tough if even every otehr over one spits like that one

[Mad for Chelsea]

tell you what, it was a great take by Prior though

[Mike Selig]

Finn bowling nicely as well at the moment. Intriguing test cricket being played.

Feel Smith may play a shot or two against Swann, try to knock him off his length a bit.

[Mad for Chelsea]

just wondering if Swann could be tempted to come around the wicket to Petersen, bring the LBW into play. Fascinating passage of play at the moment

[Duty281]

4 maidens in 6 overs for Swann. Keep the runs down = rash shot = wicket. Yes?

[msp83]

Both batters look settled out there. South Africa batting in this series has been all about determination, even when they found themselves in trouble at 54-4 in the first innings they willfully fought their way into a decent total in the end rather than giving it all up.

[alfie]

Tight passage of play...Finn has to keep it quiet too , so Swann can prey on the batsmen's anxiety...

A Swann breakthrough just might put some jitters through the batting lineup.

[skyeman]

Bumble saying, very hot in London. Lucky Bar stewards. Phishing down up here.

Come on boys, one wkt brings ...

[alfie]

Got him !!!!!

Looked pretty plum ...

[Mad for Chelsea]

Smith out LBW, looked plumb to me. Yep, Petersen pretty much tells him to b*gger off!

[skyeman]

YESSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS

[ShahenshahG]

WOOOOOOOOOOHOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

[Mike Selig]

Gone! As I said Smith looked for a few more runs, goes for a sweep and LBW, plumb.

Swann gets in amongst them, which is important for him.

Leave cover open and tempt Amla to hit through there.

[Duty281]

SWANNY! He's got the SA skipper LBW, very very rash sweep. En-ger-land, EN-GER-LAND!

[Mad for Chelsea]

actually umpire's call on impact apparently, but looked very much "out" to me live and indeed to umpire Dharmasena who gave it out pretty quickly. SA 46-1, game very much still in the balance!

[Sponsored content]