England v South Africa, Lords, 3rd Test Thread

[Duty281]

First topic message reminder :

The equation is simple. If England win, they remain number 1. If South Africa avoid defeat, they move up to number 1 and will officially be the best Test team in the World.

England: 1 Andrew Strauss (capt), 2 Alastair Cook, 3 Jonathan Trott, 4 Ian Bell, 5 James Taylor, 6 Jonny Bairstow, 7 Matt Prior (wk), 8 Stuart Broad, 9 Graeme Swann, 10 James Anderson, 11 Steven Finn

South Africa: 1 Graeme Smith (capt), 2 Alviro Petersen, 3 Hashim Amla, 4 Jacques Kallis, 5 AB de Villiers (wk), 6 Jacques Rudolph, 7 JP Duminy, 8 Vernon Philander, 9 Dale Steyn, 10 Morne Morkel, 11 Imran Tahir

Are you ready?

[Mike Selig]

Poor over from Broad to finish really, but an excellent day's test cricket. SA marginally on top, another crucial morning session coming tomorrow.

[Duty281]

Lead of 139 and 3 wickets down. Firmly in the balance. If South Africa get a good partnership going tomorrow and Amla bats long, it'll be there game. If England get Amla out in the opening hour and restrict the scoring, it'll be England's game.

[liverbnz]

Kallis had every right to react the way he did in the first innings, it was a horendous stupid call from the 3rd umpire, but this, I think he didn't hit it, it was his bat hitting the pad and the ball hitting both pads.

No he didn't, no matter what he made of the decision. It's called dissent, and it's not cool.

.
Umpires are human and they can make mistake particularly when doing onfield duty, but the third umpire had access to technology, and it was very clear that Kallis wasn't out. then when the entire world could see you wern't out and on review and the umpire makes such an idiotic call, being a human being most would have reacted.

It wasn't an idiotic call, it was a correct call.

Not according to the laws of the game of cricket.

Right hand marginally on the bat, and a tiny nick verified by sound, hotspot and snicko = out.

No it wasn't, the hand was clearly off the bat and regardless there was no evidence to overturn that decision. It was a ridiculous decision by the 3rd umpire and I haven't seen anyone else disagree with that.

[liverbnz]

Woeful over from Broad, but an intriguing 2 days left. A win either way is very likely.

[Mike Selig]

Kallis had every right to react the way he did in the first innings, it was a horendous stupid call from the 3rd umpire, but this, I think he didn't hit it, it was his bat hitting the pad and the ball hitting both pads.

No he didn't, no matter what he made of the decision. It's called dissent, and it's not cool.

.
Umpires are human and they can make mistake particularly when doing onfield duty, but the third umpire had access to technology, and it was very clear that Kallis wasn't out. then when the entire world could see you wern't out and on review and the umpire makes such an idiotic call, being a human being most would have reacted.

It wasn't an idiotic call, it was a correct call.

Not according to the laws of the game of cricket.

Right hand marginally on the bat, and a tiny nick verified by sound, hotspot and snicko = out.

No it wasn't, the hand was clearly off the bat and regardless there was no evidence to overturn that decision. It was a ridiculous decision by the 3rd umpire and I haven't seen anyone else disagree with that.

Are you saying there was no evidence that the ball hit the glove? Cos I would disagree with that, the ball clearly hit the glove, you could see that on the very first replay (without hotspot, snicko or anything else needed).

But yes, the glove was (IMO) marginally (but clearly I thought) off the bat.

I don't think any of that excuses dissent, and I don't think Kallis could be sure his glove was off the bat (it was a matter of milliseconds). I personally think Kallis didn't think he'd gloved it (with the thick gloves they wear nowadays this is not implausible). But that is pure speculation.

I would say "poor" rather than ridiculous. I would also point out that Kallis made a mistake in how he played the ball, and Dharhamaseena probably made a mistake in how he judged it (I doubt his thought process was "not out - hand off the bat" although again I am speculating).

[msp83]

With the late wicket of Kallis, England restored some balance going into the 4th day. But its still advantage SA though not by much, and they still have De Villiers, Rudolph and Duminy to come in. If SA lasts 2 sessions tomorrow, it will be very dificult for England to win from there on. Early wickets tomorrow, if they could get Amla and AB within the first hour, it will be game on for England, otherwise the Saffers will be well and truly on the driving seat.

[msp83]

Mike, it was a notout decision reversed on an England review. There is no way the third umpire could be justified giving that out.
I am sure you would not suggest he was out and the third umpire made the currect call. Of course we can agree to disagree on the way Kallis reacted. I believe standards of principle and accountability are not only for players, it is important for administrators as well as officials. One aspect(Only one) of our recent disagreements on say Gayle, Pietersen and even this issue of Kallis is that.

[Mike Selig]

Mike, [...]There is no way the third umpire could be justified giving that out.
I am sure you would not suggest he was out and the third umpire made the currect call.

I wouldn't, but we have at least one poster on here who thinks the glove was still on the bat. I believe duty is wrong on this one, but clearly it isn't black and white (even if IMO it was quite clear but marginal). Do we know what the conversation between Tucker and Dharharmeseena (whose name I keep butchering - apologies to the man) was? It was lengthy, perhaps Tucker said "clearly off the glove, marginal as to whether glove was holding the bat" and Kumar said "I'm satisfied glove was on the bat, if you tell me it definitely hit the glove I will overturn". Then again perhaps Tucker simply said "overturn", Kumar said "are you sure? are you sure it hit the glove AND that the glove was on the bat?". We don't know, so perhaps shouldn't speculate, but we shouldn't hang Tucker too easily.

Of course we can agree to disagree on the way Kallis reacted. I believe standards of principle and accountability are not only for players, it is important for administrators as well as officials. One aspect(Only one) of our recent disagreements on say Gayle, Pietersen and even this issue of Kallis is that.

You are yet again completely misrepresenting what I am saying, and frankly it is getting wearisome. I have already said many times during our argument that the WICB behaved poorly on the Gayle saga, but that that doesn't excuse walking off during a WC match smiling when you've just got out (amongst other things). Of course umpires should be held accountable, but they are, because quite a few have been dropped for performing poorly. But it seems some people (not yourself necessarily) think umpires should get it right all the time, whilst it is acceptable for players (who are paid far more BTW) to make mistakes. I don't think a mistake by an umpire is any worse than one by a player.

And I don't think dissent under any circumstance is acceptable. I told my captain off for walking off shaking his head after being given out LBW off a sweep despite a clear bottom-edge (the ball bounced before hitting hit pad!). But one of cricket's principles which MUST be upheld is fair play, and that includes acceptance of umpiring decisions.

[Mike Selig]

Just to add to the point about umpiring errors vs players ones: today Prior made two massive errors - his shot to get out and dropping Amla (off a fairly tough chance to be fair): are people suggesting he should be dropped based on those two mistakes? I'm not, so I'm saying likewise we shouldn't hang Tucker based on his (one - probable) error on day 1.

[Duty281]

With domineering hand she moves the turning wheel,
Like currents in a treacherous bay swept to and fro:
Her ruthless will has just deposed once fearful kings
While trustless still, from low she lifts a conquered head;
No cries of misery she hears, no tears she heeds,
But steely hearted laughs at groans her deeds have wrung.
Such is a game she plays, and so she tests her strength;
Of mighty power she makes parade when one short hour
Sees happiness from utter desolation grow.
Shakespeare

What's Shakespeare talking about? Fate. And I think fate is turning England's way.

[KP_fan]

Eng had a moment, only a moment when they were at par.
Finn was bowling a terrific spell, creating pressure, and Swann used that pressure to get Smith and then the 2nd opener fell .

Bizzarely Finn was taken away and not brought till late in the day, by which time and until the end SA retain their 60-40 advantage in the game. Broad was unimpressive inspite of the wkt....

Eng's best case scenario is following:
-- SA has 30 more overs with the old ball that they will score a 100 odd in first session for the loss of 1 or 2 wkts.
By Lunch SA is 240 on more or less

-- SA lowers order is no cake walk but if Eng does very with new ball, they might bundle last 5 to 6 wkts for 60 to 100 odd.
So by tea at best Eng has bowled out SA for a lead of 310.

-- at worst 1 or 2 of SA batsmen will flourish sending english bowlers on a leather hunt.
And Eng could be chasing 370 in about 4 sessions.

Draw is unlikely, Eng will have to bat better than 1st inning on a much worse pitch as their best case to win.

[Mike Selig]

You did notice that Broad (replacing Finn - a move I backed and presumably what you are moaning about) got Peterson out right? And should have had Amla but for a drop by the keeper? And that Finn's last over in that spell (his 5th, in the bright sunshine with draining heat) cost 7?

I would have called it a good bowling change personally. Although I would have brought Finn back on rather than Anderson, or at least after Anderson's 1st over which was average. But you're just trying to make a point because you don't like Broad.

[Duty281]

How England will chase 300:

Strauss - 50
Cook -70
Trott - 30
Bell - 40
Taylor - 30
Bairstow - 20
Prior - 40
Broad - 20

[Mike Selig]

I think if England are going to chase 300, it will more likely be through one batsman getting 100 and another a good 50, rather than performances all the way down.

It's very rare you get an entire batting order scoring, expect at least one or two guys to get out in single figures.

[mystiroakey]

Duty i have much more faith in bairstow!!

[JDizzle]

Start with Finn and Anderson tomorrow morning and we need to try and nip Amla out early. If he bats till after lunch then we are probably out of it. Can't afford to let Steyn hang about, and the same goes to the rest of the tail because as well as they played in the First Innings they are still lower order players and we should be able to blast away the last 4 for no more than 60. Rudolph and Duminy hopefully will be vulnerable to Swann as the pitch turns more and bounces, so if we can get Steyn out and then grab one of Amla and ABDV before the new ball and let Swanny have a bowl at JP and Rudolph we have a chance of getting through them quickly, if Amla and ABDV are still there come the new ball it is probably game over.

[Mike Selig]

England surely need 3 wickets including Amla before the new ball is due (which will be just after lunch anyway).

I'd go with Finn and Anderson also, but Anderson has to find his length ASAP, otherwise straight to Swann IMO, although you don't want to overbowl your spinner either (he may be needed for some tail-mopping, and you want him to still have working fingers then.

[Jetty]

You did notice that Broad (replacing Finn - a move I backed and presumably what you are moaning about) got Peterson out right? And should have had Amla but for a drop by the keeper? And that Finn's last over in that spell (his 5th, in the bright sunshine with draining heat) cost 7?

I would have called it a good bowling change personally. Although I would have brought Finn back on rather than Anderson, or at least after Anderson's 1st over which was average. But you're just trying to make a point because you don't like Broad.

Anderson was having trouble with the foot holes and by trying to avoid them was warned for running on the wicket. I noticed that Finn solved the problem by bowling with his front foot about 12" behind the line. At least tomorrow they will be fixed.

[KP_fan]

You did notice that Broad (replacing Finn - a move I backed and presumably what you are moaning about) got Peterson out right? And should have had Amla but for a drop by the keeper? And that Finn's last over in that spell (his 5th, in the bright sunshine with draining heat) cost 7?

I would have called it a good bowling change personally. Although I would have brought Finn back on rather than Anderson, or at least after Anderson's 1st over which was average. But you're just trying to make a point because you don't like Broad.

I don't like Broad.....and I like Finn. Tremlett and Onions ?
Why ?
Because I have a personal agenda...or I genuninely believe the latter aare superior, potent bolwers who wil serve their team better.
You might assume iwhatever you like....

Big Picture:
Finn with his pace, hit the deck hard....skid off the pitch at 145kph looks more likey to get wickets...creates more chances, builds pressure.....and even if he doesn't get wicket...the bowler at the otehr end benefits.

Broad....hiis 127kph stuff that he dishes these days..threatens no ones.......releases pressure more often than he builds it( like the last over of the day)...doesn't look like getting a wicket.
A wicket odd here or there........even part time medium pacers like Colingwood, Trott, Bopara and non regulars arm rollers Like Pietersen also get wickets...situationally.

Of the 7 seamers on display in this test match Broad ranks 7th.....almost at par with Kallis but marginally behind because of Kallis's ability to hit the deck and get the ball to rise off a length when he decides to use his broad and rock like shoulders.

And he doesn't deliver the runs either against good bowling...on the hope of whihc he is picked up for.

He needs to regain his 85-90mph pace that he showed against India last year...and rebuild the ability to get late movement that he has lost.......and minus these he is like stock medium pacers that every county has 3 to 4.....and English cricket is playing the price for it.

And doesn't need to be dumped for good....but put on a rehabilitation plan......rest and ovecome niggles, work on building muscle endurance so he can hit top speeds again...iron out little flaws that might have crept in his bowling devoiding late swing.

[KP_fan]

How England will chase 300:

Strauss - 50
Cook -70
Trott - 30
Bell - 40
Taylor - 30
Bairstow - 20
Prior - 40
Broad - 20

Eng cannot get to 300...with a distributed scoring pattern like the above.
One man will have to hold one end and bat throuhg the inning..with a not out 100...and otehrs have to play strokes around him...
that one man has to be Trott or Cook.......
and SA know it...if they gett Trott and Cook early.....match is as good as in their pocket....because the quality of their bowling and pitch will ensure remining wickets are chipped in at regular intervals.
Game changing Brilliance ( like a 120 ball 100) is conspicious by it's absence for Eng in this match.

[eirebilly]

A wicket odd here or there........even part time medium pacers like Colingwood, Trott, Bopara and non regulars arm rollers Like Pietersen also get wickets...situationally.

Are you seriously trying to group Broad into the group above? All primarily batters who could bowl a bit? Broad is a BOWLER who can bat a bit, not the other way around.

Granted he has been slightly off form but he has also taken wickets. In the past he has had numerous match changing performances, as recently as Test 2 when it could be argued that his 5 wickets was just as important at giving England a chance of victory as that of KP's 149.

You may like Finn and Onions more, fair dues but be a little more reasonable in your descriptions of Broad.

[eirebilly]

How England will chase 300:

Strauss - 50
Cook -70
Trott - 30
Bell - 40
Taylor - 30
Bairstow - 20
Prior - 40
Broad - 20

Eng cannot get to 300...with a distributed scoring pattern like the above.
One man will have to hold one end and bat throuhg the inning..with a not out 100...and otehrs have to play strokes around him...
that one man has to be Trott or Cook.......
and SA know it...if they gett Trott and Cook early.....match is as good as in their pocket....because the quality of their bowling and pitch will ensure remining wickets are chipped in at regular intervals.
Game changing Brilliance ( like a 120 ball 100) is conspicious by it's absence for Eng in this match.

And that sort of innings has been a regular part of Englands batting? Sorry but those sort of inning's only happen every now and then, not that often so can hardly be described as "conspicious by it's absence".

[KP_fan]

And that sort of innings has been a regular part of Englands batting? Sorry but those sort of inning's only happen every now and then, not that often so can hardly be described as "conspicious by it's absence".

such inning are not regular even when Richards , Lara, Tendulkar, Hayden, Sehwag, Gilchrist are playing at their prime...they are low porbability, rare occurences....but keeps audiences in hope and excpectation of such a brilliance happening anytime...as would be the case if KP was in the team.

But any hope and expectation of a rare brillaince is also killed here in this game is the point.

[msp83]

Not only Broad, but Bresnan and even Anderson seem to be down on pace throughout the summer. Bresnan without the nippy pace is half the bowler that he was in Australia, and Broad has become less effective with the pace going down. Anderson's pace hasn't gone down significantly, but if he could rediscover that little bit of pace, he could become more sharp with that new ball, which in his case would always swing. Is Broad carrying any injury? He's not certainly your average county medium pacer, even in this series he has been OK, but there is something missing from his bowling, and I have a strong feeling its about the pace, and a bit of a problem with the length. He doesn't seem to be hitting that fullish length consistently enough at pace as he did against India last summer.

[Biltong]

Did you guys watch the ICC U19 cricket in OZ this morning?

sA played England in the QF, we got 244 in 50 overs after being sent in to bat, then bowled England out fir 141, England was 102/2 at one stage and then had a dramatic collapse

[DouglasJardinesbox]

Maybe KP has texted Broad to say he has been bowling like a big woman, and it has affected his game?

Or maybe, just maybe, he is playing against the best team in the world, who can make good bowlers, even great ones look a tad average. Batters are allowed to play well also.

Please give the SA Batsmen some credit in all this. Some are using the mantle of being number 1 as an excuse to expect dominance in every game. We have no copyright on winning, as we've witnessed since UAE.

I'd be very shocked if SA let it slip from here, but with some good bounces and a heap of luck, it's still possible. I'd say we've slipped from 40-60 at the start of play yesterday, to 30-70 now (in getting a win). Just after lunch on Friday when we were 50 odd for 4, I'd have bitten my arm off to be where we are now. Or preferably, bitten Amla's arm off.....

[DouglasJardinesbox]

Did you guys watch the ICC U19 cricket in OZ this morning?

sA played England in the QF, we got 244 in 50 overs after being sent in to bat, then bowled England out fir 141, England was 102/2 at one stage and then had a dramatic collapse

Must be a wind up. England don't do collapses, but if they did, they'd propably be the best collapses in the world....

[guildfordbat]

Did you guys watch the ICC U19 cricket in OZ this morning?

sA played England in the QF, we got 244 in 50 overs after being sent in to bat, then bowled England out fir 141, England was 102/2 at one stage and then had a dramatic collapse

Morning, Biltong - no, I didn't. I was watching Gareth Batty's interview on Surrey tv about the hardworking efforts of the Club's tea room staff. I'm sure that interview and the U19 game were both classics in their own right. Certainly a dramatic collapse by England - any young South Africans we should be looking out for in the future?

Now, just to warn all posters on this thread - I suspect you may have to make do without the knowledge and insight of KP_Fan on here much of the day. A certain Mr Pietersen is playing for Surrey in this afternoon's CB 40 match against Hants, one of his (several) former clubs. I would therefore imagine that KP_Fan will be listening avidly to the CB 40 commentary provided by local radio and posting mainly on the County Cricket section.

[Biltong]

Morning guildford, yeah there are a few but most exciting for me is the offspinner Subrayen, he took 4/24 in his ten overs and looks likeca very good spinner, he turned a few almost square.

[Biltong]

Did you guys watch the ICC U19 cricket in OZ this morning?

sA played England in the QF, we got 244 in 50 overs after being sent in to bat, then bowled England out fir 141, England was 102/2 at one stage and then had a dramatic collapse

Must be a wind up. England don't do collapses, but if they did, they'd propably be the best collapses in the world....

Sorry mate, but it's true



Scorecard

[mystiroakey]

thats disgusting..

[alfie]

Not long to the start now - trust the weather is still fine ? So what can we expect today ...

Well the three days have been fairly consistent : 262/7 , 255/8 and 250/8 . This rather suggests that by the end of the day England will need to be within 240 at the most of their victory target , so will want to have removed SA for 310 tops and only lost one or two for seventy in reply.

Not that that would guarantee a win : would still require a strong batting effort , but they'd be in with a chance. So can they do the first part - take the last seven SA wickets for under 170 ?

In their favour is the fact that the three mornings have all brought wickets : four , four and three ; though the big difference is that those days all featured a new ball , and the next one is still thirty overs away. Nevertheless I fancy they will need to fashion at least three wickets from somewhere before lunch , or things are going to get very difficult...

But anyway all the above means absolutely nothing as things may head off in a completely different direction today

I for one am just looking forward to watching it unfold , and hoping this Test Match continues to be as fascinating on day four as on the first three.

[eirebilly]

Just to further counter your points about Broad KP_fan

So far this series.

Broad ---------10wks---384 runs against----33 runs scored
Anderson------ 7wks--- 325 runs against----26 runs scored

So you see, Broad is not doing too badly when you compare him to Englands other front line bowler in Jimmy Anderson. Broad has taken 10 wickets out of the current 34 taken by England this series and 10 wickets against one of the best batting lineups in cricket so if you want to have a dig at Broad, by all means but when it comes down to it, he has actually done very well.

[KP_fan]

Just to further counter your points about Broad KP_fan

So far this series.

Broad ---------10wks---384 runs against----33 runs scored
Anderson------ 7wks--- 325 runs against----26 runs scored

So you see, Broad is not doing too badly when you compare him to Englands other front line bowler in Jimmy Anderson. Broad has taken 10 wickets out of the current 34 taken by England this series and 10 wickets against one of the best batting lineups in cricket so if you want to have a dig at Broad, by all means but when it comes down to it, he has actually done very well.

There are lies, damned lies and statistics.
Mark Twain

[trebellbobaggins]

england players being unable to bat?

shocking.

so basically we're back to the 90's and that few short years of not being shocking are over as we have no future batsmen either? great.

[Mike Selig]

Examples of U19 cricketers who then go on to make it internationally (or even at first class level) are on the whole fairly rare. In particular spin bowlers always seem to do disproportionately well - a lot of this is because the players haven't yet reached physical maturity (remember Brathwaite against Australia? he seemed incapable of getting it off the square at times) so struggle to hit the ball hard enough to pierce or clear the field with the ease with which their more senior counterparts can.

There are of course exceptions, but the best player of this England team - Topley - is already playing first class cricket: it is a case of a first class cricketer performing at (lower) U-19 level rather than an U-19 player performing later on at first class level.

I guess what I am trying to say is that often it is the strongest players who succeed, rather than the most talented. All of this is of course general plattitudes - apart from brief highlights of Australia-England I haven't seen any of the U19 tournament - and reports of the SA off-spinner are encouraging (often spinner succeed through flight and the inability of the batsmen to deal with it).

Funnily enough this phenomenom is not nearly so visible at lower levels (e.g. associate cricket or county age-group), where the U-19s are really seen as feeding the senior side. For example the Ireland U19 side of 2003 included Porterfield, Morgan, K. O'Brien, Wilson, Rankin, although it is noticeable that as Ireland have improved fewer and fewer of their new-comers are from the junior side (Dockrell being the only recent example) and more and more are "found" in various leagues around the world (grade cricket, etc.) - much like the new dutch recruits. What this says for these countries development programs I don't know, but it certainly suggests that it is a strong domestic league structure, rather than strong U19 performances, which produces international cricketers at the highest level.

Sorry for the off-topic.

[alfie]

Broad has been strangely down on pace , but he took eight wickets in the second Test , including a second innings five which almost gave England a chance to win...so I hardly think he is a liability !

Both Broad and Anderson (who looked a bit out of sorts in his later spell yesterday) will need to be fully switched on this morning if England are to give themselves a chance.

[mystiroakey]

I think it makes sense Mike, The fact is the test nations have so much depth that the chances are the ones to succeed are going to be from the 99% of players that dont get picked for an under 19 event, whereas with the afiliate nations they dont have the depth of talent

[eirebilly]

When you also compare Broad to Finn in the last two test matches they have both played/playing he has'nt done badly either.

Broad--------10wks---273 runs conceded
Finn-----------7 wks--- 276 runs conceded

These stats suggest to me that Broad is still very much a frontline bowler contrary to your beliefs.

[Mike Selig]

Back to the test match:

It will be interesting to see how Steyn plays - does he throw the bat, or try to frustrate England? I'd be tempted to throw the bat, score a quick 20 or 30 and England will really be on the back foot.

Amla is a key wicket - he hasn't looked particularly solid but he's still there. England must persist with the in-ducker, but set him up for it by bowling outside off to draw him there first. Swann should carry on around the wicket I feel.

Then there's ABdV - he scores quickly and so England can't afford him to do much. On the other hand he's not in good form, and also prone to the LBW.

A lot of work for England, as alfie says anything much over 300 will be tough, and scoring more than 3 an over on the last day also, particularly as Tahir can bowl into the rough.

[eirebilly]

Broad has been strangely down on pace , but he took eight wickets in the second Test , including a second innings five which almost gave England a chance to win...so I hardly think he is a liability !

Both Broad and Anderson (who looked a bit out of sorts in his later spell yesterday) will need to be fully switched on this morning if England are to give themselves a chance.

Both have been down on pace but its amazing that Broad is being singled out here to return to CC when he is Englands highest wicket taker this series again.

[Mike Selig]

Just to further counter your points about Broad KP_fan

So far this series.

Broad ---------10wks---384 runs against----33 runs scored
Anderson------ 7wks--- 325 runs against----26 runs scored

So you see, Broad is not doing too badly when you compare him to Englands other front line bowler in Jimmy Anderson. Broad has taken 10 wickets out of the current 34 taken by England this series and 10 wickets against one of the best batting lineups in cricket so if you want to have a dig at Broad, by all means but when it comes down to it, he has actually done very well.

There are lies, damned lies and statistics.
Mark Twain

Reasoned debate suggests responding to the actual points raised without resorting to general plattitudes, and admitting when you're shown to be wrong.
Michael Selig.

Any reasonable person would admit that bringing Broad on when the ball was just starting to reverse, a move which brought a wicket, a dropped catch and the first 3 overs for 8 runs (after Finn had gone for 7 in his last over) was a good bowling change.

[alfie]

Think there is only one person getting the boots into Broad on here , Billy...

Most of us are remaining rational

[liverbnz]

Big, big session coming up for both sides. England need to get Amla quickly, SA need him there at lunch.

[eirebilly]

True enough alfie, just wanted to counter a few of the points

The papers are not letting the KP thing die are they

[msp83]

Regardless of his wickets, the fact remains that Broad hasn't been at his best throughout the summer. I certainly don't come from the shool that wants him send packing to county cricket to improve or anything, and I don't think Finn has done way better than him. But Broad's lack of effective with the new ball in particularly has been hurting England, and he has to rediscover the pace and length combination that made him such a massive part of England's bowling success in recent times. Even in the winter on the flat tracks of the UAE he was doing just fine, but England certainly need more him. I have a feeling some niggle or a bit of an injury is nagging him.

[Mike Selig]

Right, here we go. Crucial first hour coming up. England would love a couple of wickets.

[alfie]

One small quibble : just heard Nasser say SA have " dominated the series"...have seen that said on here too . Actually they totally dominated the first Test , no question ; but it has really been pretty even since then...

Never mind , on with the show

[liverbnz]

Was thinking the exact same thing Alfie.

[Mike Selig]

Think Steyn is possibly thinking all the bouncers to Finn weren't such a good idea after all?

Decent opening over, but well negotiated by Steyn in the end.

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