VVS Laxman set to announce retirement

Cricinfo is reporting that VVS Laxman will announce that he plans to retire either after the 1st or 2nd of the two upcoming Tests against New Zealand. A very good player, particularly at home and particularly in run-chase situations. Will always be remembered as the hero of Kolkata 2001.

A bad time to retire for me. He should either have gone after the tour of Australia - I expected him rather than Dravid to go then - , allowing the same team that will play against England and Australia (both upcoming 4 Test home series) to play in this series which will act as a warm-up I would imagine, or after those two bigger series. Going when it seems he will will leave India having to bring in someone new at a crucial moment.

Not sure a home series against us would worry the Indians too much though. Think they won't mind a newcomer. I'd go with Rahane as the opener with Sehwag moving down the order.

shankythebiggestengfan wrote:Not sure a home series against us would worry the Indians too much though. Think they won't mind a newcomer. I'd go with Rahane as the opener with Sehwag moving down the order.

I like Sehwag the opener - we'll go round in circles debating that one so lets not. But I also would like Rahane at 3 (I think they'll go Pujara), Sachin will obviously be at 4 and Kohli probably at 5. The latest squad, for the NZ matches, ridiculously includes Suresh Raina. No doubt he'll get a gig at 6 again when Laxman goes and, like every other time he's played, will get out to the short ball in just about every innings.

Well, you haven't actually replied to some points that I raised during the other thread about him.

Sehwag is no doubt the best opener in the world in subcontinent conditions but no matter what way you twist it, his record outside just doesnt stack up as even half decent. Its pretty awful.

And he will be 35 when they tour SA in 2013. For someone whose game is based largely on hand-eye coordination, to expect him to succeed as an opener in SA at that age when he couldn't even do it in his prime, is a recipe for disaster.
And they need to long term IMO. Have you read Sanjay Manjrekar's latest article in Cricinfo? I agree with each and every word of that. Aakash Chopra's article on the same subject is also very good though his emphasis is a bit more on the A team tour of NZ.

thing is, I'm not entirely sure Rahane plays the moving ball that well either. Certainly whenever I've watched him bat I see him more as a middle-order player in tests, so maybe he should be next up when Laxman retires? certainly India have some problems to solve with their batting line-up...

Two down, one left of the big three. Who Will be the next Indian idol?

Fair question! The idea is to gamble differently. Rahane has done well for the A side in England and also in the Emerging Players' Tournament in Australia on more than 1 occasion.

Don't think its fair to judge him on his ODI performances tbh. He is not a particularly good one day player, even at domestic level.

doesn't he bat in the middle-order in first class cricket?

Rahane plays straight, gets in behind the ball and judges length fairly well - technically he is certainly able to open (or bat at 3). Whether he is up to it mentally is another question, and one you won't really know the answer to until you try him out.

Pujara is another who could easily slot in at 3, or further down at 6.

Kohli technically seems to prop forward a bit early at time, so will be susceptible to back of a length just outside off which he may feel for (check out his dismissal to Siddle first innings at the SCG for perfect illustration). I would leave him at 5 (although he may be able to move up to 4 once Sachin goes).

Raina from what I have seen of him is hopeless (at test cricket). If India have any sense they'll pick Rahane and Pujara.

What of Rohit Sharma? Technically he's the best of the lot IMO...

I've long held VVS Laxman in high regard. Tho' I think he should have retired a bit earlier.

Mad for Chelsea wrote:doesn't he bat in the middle-order in first class cricket?

Normally a No.3 batsman but has been opening recently. So yeah, quite used to facing the new ball.

Mike,
Rohit Sharma? Technically the best? Guess you didn't see the SL ODI's then. His head seems to be falling over onto the off side which is causing him a fair amount of problems, even with straight balls. Though he is better than Raina.

VVSL was the miracle man of Indian cricket.....pulling team out of back to the wall, facing heavy defeat situations....and turning them to unlikely wins........
when reason and logic stopped....VVSL would take over...and tzake them to wins.....restoring faith in acts of gods.

Kolkata 2000....Adelaide 2003-04 against Aus......and more recently narrow 1 wicket nerve wracking chases against Aus and SL...he was an architetc of a number of wins from impossible situations.

He was one of the most delightful batsmen to watch along with David Gower, Mark Waugh, Azharuddin, Zaheer Abbas and MoYo in my viewing years.

His timing is about right.......slowed reflexes were evident in Eng and Aus where the ball was doing a bit more of the pitch then it does in India.

I think in the Peking order and based on shows in WI for the A side....Pujara takes over the Dravid's slot...and when VVSL goes Rahane is the next in line....with Rohit and Manoj Tiwari as the challangers.

Given that Kohli is aready firm.

I would move Sehwag down the order to 5 or 6......and keep Rahane as the opener in the next given opportunity.

Shanky, you make fair points re Sehwag and playing away from home. His record outside of India does fail to stack up overall. However, I see it this way:

- In Asia he has such a fantastic record that it would be ridiculous not to pick him as an opener, where he can have most impact on a game

- His overall record remains sublime when you look at the raw stats - averaging nearly 51 at a strike rate of 82

- Away from Asia he is far more inconsistent and in the last couple of series not very good. But I still believe him to be capable of an occasional stunning innings. There are any number of players that could be sent in as whackers at 5/6 but only Sehwag can do this at the top of the order.

I have read Aakash Chopra's article and tend to agree. India have long ignored domestic cricket as a selection criteria and appear to have again. Amongst the squad for this series are the following:

- Piyush Chawla whose last two FC seasons have yielded 25 wkts @ 41.01 and 27 wkts @ 40.62.

- Suresh Raina who was found out against the short ball not once, not twice but in three separate series before last being dropped for the Test side. You'd assume that he'd worked on it in FC cricket then, right? Well, he's only played 4 matches (admittedly he scored 204* in one of them) since he was dropped in England.

- Cheteshwar Pujara whose return to FC cricket after injury last year saw him average 32. Undoubtedly talented, but with so much talent around surely they should have waited until he gets some runs under his belt?

- Ishant Sharma who has averaged over 50 with the ball in each of his last 3 Test series, and 35 or more in 4 of the 6 before that too... He hasn't played a FC game since the tour of Australia.

It would be a disgrace if Rahane is again benched as reserve opener. He has displayed his talents in one-day cricket and the IPL, and in FC cricket has an average of 63.94 after 53 games. Yes, the pitches are flat in the Ranji Trophy, but that is a sensational record in any conditions. Surely he can't be drinks carrying again, whilst Pujara, Raina and the rest get their chances.

My team when Laxman goes would be Sehwag, Gambhir, Rahane, Tendulkar, Kohli, Sharma (ideally I'd like an all-rounder, but I'm not sure one exists), Dhoni, Ashwin, Zaheer, Yadav/ Dinda, Ojha/ Aaron.

shankythebiggestengfan wrote:

Mike,
Rohit Sharma? Technically the best? Guess you didn't see the SL ODI's then. His head seems to be falling over onto the off side which is causing him a fair amount of problems, even with straight balls. Though he is better than Raina.

You're right I didn't. I was basing myself on the Sharma of a couple of years ago, when he was streets ahead of Raina and Kohli, but seemed to be a bit silly sometimes.

Mike Selig wrote:

shankythebiggestengfan wrote:

Mike,
Rohit Sharma? Technically the best? Guess you didn't see the SL ODI's then. His head seems to be falling over onto the off side which is causing him a fair amount of problems, even with straight balls. Though he is better than Raina.

You're right I didn't. I was basing myself on the Sharma of a couple of years ago, when he was streets ahead of Raina and Kohli, but seemed to be a bit silly sometimes.

Sharma can play. It sends out the wrong messages to me that you take Sharma all round Australia not giving him a game, then pick Raina ahead of him for the next series.

Shelsey93 wrote:Shanky, you make fair points re Sehwag and playing away from home. His record outside of India does fail to stack up overall. However, I see it this way:

- In Asia he has such a fantastic record that it would be ridiculous not to pick him as an opener, where he can have most impact on a game

- His overall record remains sublime when you look at the raw stats - averaging nearly 51 at a strike rate of 82

- Away from Asia he is far more inconsistent and in the last couple of series not very good. But I still believe him to be capable of an occasional stunning innings. There are any number of players that could be sent in as whackers at 5/6 but only Sehwag can do this at the top of the order.

I have read Aakash Chopra's article and tend to agree. India have long ignored domestic cricket as a selection criteria and appear to have again. Amongst the squad for this series are the following:

- Piyush Chawla whose last two FC seasons have yielded 25 wkts @ 41.01 and 27 wkts @ 40.62.

- Suresh Raina who was found out against the short ball not once, not twice but in three separate series before last being dropped for the Test side. You'd assume that he'd worked on it in FC cricket then, right? Well, he's only played 4 matches (admittedly he scored 204* in one of them) since he was dropped in England.

- Cheteshwar Pujara whose return to FC cricket after injury last year saw him average 32. Undoubtedly talented, but with so much talent around surely they should have waited until he gets some runs under his belt?

- Ishant Sharma who has averaged over 50 with the ball in each of his last 3 Test series, and 35 or more in 4 of the 6 before that too... He hasn't played a FC game since the tour of Australia.

It would be a disgrace if Rahane is again benched as reserve opener. He has displayed his talents in one-day cricket and the IPL, and in FC cricket has an average of 63.94 after 53 games. Yes, the pitches are flat in the Ranji Trophy, but that is a sensational record in any conditions. Surely he can't be drinks carrying again, whilst Pujara, Raina and the rest get their chances.

My team when Laxman goes would be Sehwag, Gambhir, Rahane, Tendulkar, Kohli, Sharma (ideally I'd like an all-rounder, but I'm not sure one exists), Dhoni, Ashwin, Zaheer, Yadav/ Dinda, Ojha/ Aaron.

Pujara was their best batsman by a country mile on the A tour to WI. A no brainer to pick him. And I dont understand whats all this "talent" you are talking about. There is absolutely no way that Rohit Sharma should be anywhere near the Test squad at the moment. To say that he has been abysmal since the start of the OZ ODI series would be an understatement. He has been THAT bad. Pujara outscored him by a mile on the A tour and unlike Rohit, he has something called "temperament". No contest there and I am sure most Indian fans agree.

I agree about Raina and Chawla.

VVSL has retired "with immediate effect"...means he is not playing the tests against NZ.

Good for India's prepartion against the more difficult Eng, they will be able to test who they want in the more diffcult series against Eng

Laxman has retired with immediate effect, meaning India will have to play 2 relatively new batters in the 11 against New Zealand. Common sense suggests they go in with Cheteshwar Pujara and Ajinkya Rahane. Pujara has been batting number 4 for his Ranji side and Rahane, having opened at times, mostly bat at 3 for Mumbai. But I think Pujara should bat 3 and Rahane 6 for now with Virat Kohli coming in at 5.
The selection of Raina, Ishant Sharma and Piyush Chawla were just sensless. Think its going to be Zaheer, Ashwin, Ojha and Yadav who would be playing, and I'd have had Irfan Pathan, Manoj Tiwari and perhaps Ravindra Jadeja or Jalaj Saxena as backup. Ishant hasn't had any match time to prove his fitness or form. He was very inconsistent throughout the England and Australia series and by the end of it Yadav had done enough to become the 2nd seamer. Varun Aaron I think has some injury concern, otherwise I'd had him as the seam bowling backup. I know ODI form is very different from the challenges of test cricket, but no other seamer has been knocking the door down demanding selection. So I would have had Pathan, who is an all-rounder.
Tiwari too has had decent ODI form, and unlike Raina he hasn't shown massive problems against the short balls. Rohit Sharma of course spend lots of time on the bench, but his temprament is not even good enough at the ODI level, forget test cricket.
The spin department is a massive problem though, there is noone good enough beyond Ashwin and Ojha, who themselves have a fair few way to go. Mishra and Chawla have been average spinners at best, and haven't done a lot at the highest level when given the opportunity. Jadeja isn't a great spinner either, and his batting also is just about average, but he offers a bit more than the other 2. Saxena had some success in the West Indies to have a decent case for him.

Every good thing has to come an end at some point, and with VVS we have reached that. He has been India's criss man for years. Thanks VVS for all the happiness you brought about, and wishing you good in whateverelse you choose as the centre of your life activity post your playing days. Being a thinking cricketer, I hope he'll be involved with Indian cricket in the future as well, like Anil Kumble and Rahul Dravid.

On a wonderful career in cricket.

On a side note, i wonder if Dravid would consider a cricket commentators role, such great knowledge and fantastic talker.

skyeman wrote: On a wonderful career in cricket.

On a side note, i wonder if Dravid would consider a cricket commentators role, such great knowledge and fantastic talker.

Was thinking the same.. I hope so.


Anyways, well done VVS! Congratulations on a fantastic career!

Laxman is among my most favourite batsmen.

It came as a bit of surprise to me that he failed so badly in his last two test series in summer and late 2011 after averaging 67 runs in 2009 and 2010.

His 96 at Durban was among the best of test batting in the past decade; he negotiated a most difficult pitch when everybody else from either side looked clueless. He won almost-lost matches in Lanka and at Mohali vs Australia.

I hold high regard for players who do well against tougher opposition and in high-pressure situations, and I rate Laxman highly for this reason. I will miss watching his delicate and stylish stroke play.

There was David Gower, there was Mark Waugh, and now VVS Laxman, the last stylist that walked away....

Hope another stylist in that mold will come along soon

Having questioned his timing based on the original inaccurate report I should now take my hat off to him for resisting the temptation to have a home-town good bye against NZ and take up a place that someone who'll play in the bigger series to come should be filling

very good player, however should have announced this a while ago..

Farewell VVS

CF please leave the fourm.

NickisBHAFC wrote:CF please leave the fourm.

NickisBHAFC wrote:CF please leave the fourm.

wtf

NickisBHAFC wrote:CF please leave the fourm.

That's not called for Nick. If you don't like his comments, either disagree with the comment or walk away.

and also try to spell forum right next time

CF wrote:and also try to spell forum right next time

A very fine player. One who doesn't seek the limelight like his big ego team mates. The man for a crisis, probably up there with Dravid. I can't see India replacing him.

Gerry SA wrote:A very fine player. One who doesn't seek the limelight like his big ego team mates. The man for a crisis, probably up there with Dravid. I can't see India replacing him.

Kohli, Rahane, Pujara....to name a few..

CF wrote:

Gerry SA wrote:A very fine player. One who doesn't seek the limelight like his big ego team mates. The man for a crisis, probably up there with Dravid. I can't see India replacing him.

Kohli, Rahane, Pujara....to name a few..

Don't be silly. Laxman was the go to man for India.

These youngsters need to prove their FC records aren't just boosted on their flat pitches.

Kohli looks like he has the right temperament. He has a couple of technical issues but they can be worked on. Rahane I'm not so convinced by, looks a good player but I think gets too frustrated by not scoring, teams will bore him out I think. Pujara looked the business in SA. The fact remains, India never satisfactorily replaced Ganguly, and on top of that they've lost Dravid and Laxman in a short space of time. Their middle-order is looking more exposed than they'd have liked...

You can't replace champion players just like that. Australia hasn't been able to replace Hayden and Langer, Warne and McGrath....... Wade is good but not close enough to Gilly. Great players like Warne can't be replaced rightaway, you can only hope the next one will come from somewhere sooner rather than later.
But like Australia managed to find a few quality pacers as well as a few fine batsmen through new players getting introduced or others stepping to take up new roles like Warner or Watson, other will come in. In due course of time, they might even emerge as legends of the game.
As far as India goes, there is no replacement for India's Very Very Special crisis man. He's VVS Laxman, the one and only. But I believe players like Pujara and Kohli have got it in them to take over, estalish themselves as quality test players and more after a point.
Rahane is someone whom I hope would come through as well. He showed good temprament in England in the T-20 as well as the ODIs, and the heartening thing is that the limited over formats aren't considered his natural type. But yes, he didn't do well during the practice matches in Australia, and same was the case in the A team tour to the West Indies. But well, I think there is hope.
Raina and Rohit aren't test class as of now. Rohit doesn't even have the right temprament to play any form of international cricket at this stage. Shame it is that such a tallent isn't developing, but if he doesn't change his ways, India will have to live with that.
Kohli is a good bet at 5 or 6, Pujara can bat at 3 or 5, and Rahane can come in the top 3. In the years to come, I believe these 3 are going to be the centre of India's batting unit.
Young Unmukt Chand has the shots and a thinking head, after the Sehwag and Gambhir era gets over he could slot in. Abhinav Mukund is another contenter for the other opener's position, although early test exerience suggests he has to do a lot more to reach that stage.
But where on earth are we going to find some half decent bowlers? I don't want to think of what after Zaheer Khan, Umesh Yadav gives some real hope, but that is it. Ashwin can be a decent spinner, but the land of Bedi, Chandra, Venkat, Prasanna, Kumble and even Harbhajan of old is crying out for the next in that line, and unfortunately, domestic cricket has not thrown up anyone as yet. At present, Ashwin and Ojha are the best bet. and if of them is injured or out of form, there is absolutely noone. Might as well play another batsman, or play with 10.

msp83 wrote:You can't replace champion players just like that. Australia hasn't been able to replace Hayden and Langer, Warne and McGrath....... Wade is good but not close enough to Gilly. Great players like Warne can't be replaced rightaway, you can only hope the next one will come from somewhere sooner rather than later.
But like Australia managed to find a few quality pacers as well as a few fine batsmen through new players getting introduced or others stepping to take up new roles like Warner or Watson, other will come in. In due course of time, they might even emerge as legends of the game.
As far as India goes, there is no replacement for India's Very Very Special crisis man. He's VVS Laxman, the one and only. But I believe players like Pujara and Kohli have got it in them to take over, estalish themselves as quality test players and more after a point.
Rahane is someone whom I hope would come through as well. He showed good temprament in England in the T-20 as well as the ODIs, and the heartening thing is that the limited over formats aren't considered his natural type. But yes, he didn't do well during the practice matches in Australia, and same was the case in the A team tour to the West Indies. But well, I think there is hope.
Raina and Rohit aren't test class as of now. Rohit doesn't even have the right temprament to play any form of international cricket at this stage. Shame it is that such a tallent isn't developing, but if he doesn't change his ways, India will have to live with that.
Kohli is a good bet at 5 or 6, Pujara can bat at 3 or 5, and Rahane can come in the top 3. In the years to come, I believe these 3 are going to be the centre of India's batting unit.
Young Unmukt Chand has the shots and a thinking head, after the Sehwag and Gambhir era gets over he could slot in. Abhinav Mukund is another contenter for the other opener's position, although early test exerience suggests he has to do a lot more to reach that stage.
But where on earth are we going to find some half decent bowlers? I don't want to think of what after Zaheer Khan, Umesh Yadav gives some real hope, but that is it. Ashwin can be a decent spinner, but the land of Bedi, Chandra, Venkat, Prasanna, Kumble and even Harbhajan of old is crying out for the next in that line, and unfortunately, domestic cricket has not thrown up anyone as yet. At present, Ashwin and Ojha are the best bet. and if of them is injured or out of form, there is absolutely noone. Might as well play another batsman, or play with 10.

Yup, bowling is by far the biggest issue for India. I think that India's replacement batsmen are a cut above those Australia have brought in to replace there retired legends, at least in Asian conditions. From what I've seen Rahane, Kohli, perhaps Sharma, Tiwary and Pujara all have what it takes to succeed; I can be less certain about Khawaja, Hughes and co.

I pretty much agree with what msp says. India's bowling is a huge concern. I quite like the look of Yadav (though a bit raw still, he'll be a fine bowler one day if he keeps developing) but the rest? Sharma is a great bowler when he gets is right, but unfortunately that's once in a blue moon. Vinay Kumar has neither the pace nor the accuracy to be successful at test level. What happened to Praveen Kumar? Slower, but great control and swung the new ball. Decent "workhorse" type (like Matthew Hoggard a bit). Ashwin will do OK in the subcontinent, but not so well outside. Ohja is a decent bowler I think.

MFC and Shelsey, you know Ishant Sharma has played 45 tests and we still have to talk about the possibilities and potentials more often than not. People say its about him figuring out the right length, people say its about being unlucky, but I think 45 tests are too many for all that. Only Kapil Dev, Javakal Srinath and Zaheer Khan have gained more test caps among Indian pace bowlers than Ishant's 45.
The only saving grace is that he's not yet 24.

yeah but like you say he's played 45 tests. He's probably bowled about 10 very good spell in all that time. Yes his "natural" length is maybe a tuch short which means he beats the bat rather than getting the nicks (a bit like Flintoff), BUT, he's just way too inconsistent. As I said he'll bowl one good spell a series (if you're lucky) and the rest will be sprayed all over the place. The test series in England is a case in point: really good spell to drag India back into the game (somewhat) in the second innings of the first test, but just awful for the rest of the series.

Agree about Chand. Really don't rate Rohit tbh.

In the bowling dept, agree with everything thats been said. The fact that Ishant, who is averaging 68 in his last 11 tests and has not played any competitive cricket since his ankle surgery has been picked for the upcoming tests against NZ says it all.

With Fredye Flintoff even when he didn't pick up bags of wickets, the best of the batsmen found it really hard to score easy runs of his bowling. With Ishant though that level of consistency isn't there. Hopefully Ishant can rediscover that lost yard or 2 of pace and become more consistent otherwise it will be an utter and sad waste of a tallent. Unlike England who has a pretty decent reserve of pace bowlers India has very fw, and they come far in between. Ishant's selection for the test series against New Zeland for me is a mistake, he should have first gained some match practice and also proved his wicket taking form. among the average reserves, Irfan Pathan or Ashok Dinda could have been given some valuable squad time. Varun Aaron unfortunately is not fit. He has pace, squad time with Zaheer would have been valuable in him developing other skills, as he doesn't move the ball much now either in the air or of the pitch.

I like the look of that Awana. If he can develop a repeatable action, he could be useful. Don't see Dinda as a test option as he basically does nothing with a ball in hand. Gun barrell straight.

Awana does look decent. But the selectors are not managing him well, can't understand their logic in picking the A teams, very different sides to go to the West Indies and New Zealand. Can understand the cases of Pujara and Rahane but Awana who just got the one game is out, and it just doesn't make any sense.

Aakash Chopra has hit the nail on the head with regards to the A team selection.

Somebody made the very good comparison between Ishant Sharma and the Warwickshire seamer Chris Wright a few months ago - sorry, can't remember who.

As well as looking very similar, they both struggle to have a repeatable action. However, Wright finally discovered some consistency in recent months.

To be a genuine threat I think Ishant has to find something and fast - for mine he's had far too many chances and should be binned until he produces strong Ranji Trophy form (note, not IPL form)... I guess the problem is who else?

Yadav - Pace but very expensive. Not yet ready in my view.
Aaron - Pace but injured
Sreesanth - Too inconsistent
RP Singh - Too slow
Irfan Pathan - Just not very good
Mithun - See Pathan

Don't know much about those yet to play international cricket, but figures from domestic cricket aren't that promising. While the batsmen make millions of runs the bowlers seem to make very little impact whatsoever.

Praveen Kumar should definitely play in my view though. Don't know what his fitness levels are right now?

PK has lost a yard of pace after his injury last year. He never was the fastest bowler in India, and could not have suffered any more pace dips. Again, the selectors should have given enough opportunities in the A team tours, but haven't.