LI sign Fijian tongue twister

http://www1.skysports.com/rugby-union/news/12550/8006115/Irish-net-Fiji-prop

Another prop arrives at LI, Smith describes as being mobile with a solid set piece. Feeling optimistic LI fans?

formerly known as Sam wrote:http://www1.skysports.com/rugby-union/news/12550/8006115/Irish-net-Fiji-prop

Another prop arrives at LI, Smith describes as being mobile with a solid set piece. Feeling optimistic LI fans?

Ha. Not particularly, but we shall see. Fingers crossed, although think he is more of a loosehead than tighthead.

I shall reserve judgement Sam. He clearly is good in the loose, but ultimately I want to know if he can scrummage. He is billed as being able to play both sides, but as SirBurger has said, he is primarily a loosehead. Even with him, we only have 4 fit senior props to start the season with and 3 of them are looseheads who can play tighthead (Lahiff, Aulika and this fella).

I shall confess to being a tad worried.

Is anyone else sick to death of hearing about front rows that are "mobile but solid in the set piece.".

Sod solid...i want to see "not very mobile...but he scrums like a demented rhino!!"

Where are the Julian Whites coming through!!

Maybe they should change their name to PI.

GeordieFalcon wrote:Is anyone else sick to death of hearing about front rows that are "mobile but solid in the set piece.".

Sod solid...i want to see "not very mobile...but he scrums like a demented rhino!!"

Where are the Julian Whites coming through!!

Really really annoys me too! I honestly don't care about a props contribution in the loose anymore. I mean it is a brilliant bonus, but we have had years of tightheads who are rubbish in the loose and average scrummagers. Get the basics in place first!

profitius wrote:Maybe they should change their name to PI.

Actually they have stepped up the Irish part of London Irish this season and brought in Tomas O'Leary, Ian Cross, Ian Humphreys, Foster Horan as well as having Brian Blaney, Conor Gaston and James Sandford. Thats not a bad contingent.

Really really annoys me too! I honestly don't care about a props contribution in the loose anymore. I mean it is a brilliant bonus, but we have had years of tightheads who are rubbish in the loose and average scrummagers. Get the basics in place first!

Amen. Thankfully Dan Cole has come through (apparently he loves scrummaging) otherwise England would be struggling. There's no point being a really mobile prop who is a bit dodgey in the scrum, that's not a prop it's a failed number 8 who has got too fat and pushed forward in the pack.

I'm not sure why more young player don't target the scrum as a potentially key skill area. Great scrummaging props tend to have a much longer shelf life and often better wages than mobile ones, if you're a young prop wanting to make money out of the sport then spend months on the scrummaging machine!

When signing a tighthead, there should really only be one consideration, and that is, can he scrummage. All this ball carrying and pilfering at the breakdown is a bonus and not a must. As long as he tackles and hits rucks then I would take a scrummaging prop over a mobile one every day. We really need one at London Irish, as if we are being totally honest, our scrum is pretty poor at present. It is a worry for me this close to the season. We need our pack to provide good ball, be that from securing it quickly at rucks or off of set pieces, as I am confident in our backs ability to hurt teams if given the opportunity. What worries me is that from what I have seen in pre season the same issues for our pack are still there, and we may not see our backs being used to their full potential as a result.

Ozzy3213 wrote:When signing a tighthead, there should really only be one consideration, and that is, can he scrummage. All this ball carrying and pilfering at the breakdown is a bonus and not a must. As long as he tackles and hits rucks then I would take a scrummaging prop over a mobile one every day. We really need one at London Irish, as if we are being totally honest, our scrum is pretty poor at present. It is a worry for me this close to the season. We need our pack to provide good ball, be that from securing it quickly at rucks or off of set pieces, as I am confident in our backs ability to hurt teams if given the opportunity. What worries me is that from what I have seen in pre season the same issues for our pack are still there, and we may not see our backs being used to their full potential as a result.

You have just described Adam Jones

LordDowlais wrote:

Ozzy3213 wrote:When signing a tighthead, there should really only be one consideration, and that is, can he scrummage. All this ball carrying and pilfering at the breakdown is a bonus and not a must. As long as he tackles and hits rucks then I would take a scrummaging prop over a mobile one every day. We really need one at London Irish, as if we are being totally honest, our scrum is pretty poor at present. It is a worry for me this close to the season. We need our pack to provide good ball, be that from securing it quickly at rucks or off of set pieces, as I am confident in our backs ability to hurt teams if given the opportunity. What worries me is that from what I have seen in pre season the same issues for our pack are still there, and we may not see our backs being used to their full potential as a result.

You have just described Adam Jones

We'll take him!

http://www.london-irish.com/news/Irish85690.ink

So that's Lahiff, this fella and Halavatu who are converted back row forwards. The only fit senior prop we have who has always been a prop is Halani Aulika.

I just hope that early season the conditions stay dry and our handling is good, as the fewer scrums in the game the better for us right now.

You can't have him. Adam is actually a neighbour of mine, and he is a very nice person off the field, I will always remember his wife giving him a bollocking for helping to push a car when we had all the bad snow in our area, the Ospreys were playing Munster in the HC the next day. But, if you ever needed somebody to push a car in a few feet of snow, then I guess having one of the worlds best tighthead props is not a bad option.

You have just described Adam Jones

I must have missed the bit where he mentioned conceding multiple penalties in the loose against Austraila.

An Adam Jones signing would be an asset to nearly every side, I would imagine the difference in the financial arrangements between this signing and that one would be considerably different.

Backrow conversions to prop aren't always bad, Dan Cole was a converted number 8 and so is Logo Mulipola at Tigers as well. In fact Logo alternated between prop and 8 whilst he was a semi pro before joining Tigers. Can you imagine a 20 stone juggernaught like that coming off the base of a scrum?

Who at the moment...apart from Cole...is noteable as a really A1 powerul scrummager...

I guess with Corbisiero being repeatedly injured, LI need some cover. Squad filled with good old English names....

Steady, with Perenise at TH, we can't be that critical!

GeordieFalcon wrote:Who at the moment...apart from Cole...is noteable as a really A1 powerul scrummager...

PDJ is a very good scrummager, Wilson is also better in the scrum than the loose.

LI also recently signed ireland u20 international foster horan. So they seem to be building a decent squad. What are the expectations this season for them?

LeinsterFan4life wrote:LI also recently signed ireland u20 international foster horan. So they seem to be building a decent squad. What are the expectations this season for them?

Difficult to call with so many changes. Brian Smith seems to have a very clear idea about what he wants, and with Shaun Edwards onboard, defence hopefully won't be an Achilles Heel in the way it has been, but so many long-term players leaving last season, the squad will inevitably take time to settle. Add to that we're still short a tighthead and Fullback, and it'll be an interesting season.

I don't think we are short a full back to be honest. Tom Homer is first choice, and will be covered by Conor Gaston and Anthony Watson I expect. Whist both are young, I am more than happy to see them get some gametime should Tom need to be rested at any point.

Tighthead is THE issue.

I agree that BS has a clear idea about what he wants and I am excited about some of the additions to the squad. They will definitely take some time to all settle, but I am positive about the future. (As long as we sign a quality tighthead)!!!

Anthony Watson looks to have a whole lot of potential Ozzy, do you reckon he'll see much game time next season?

I think so Sam, as we've not signed another full back so I assume that he will be back up to Homer. I would definitely expect him to feature in the LV Cup and possibly the Amlin.

Ozzy3213 wrote:I don't think we are short a full back to be honest. Tom Homer is first choice, and will be covered by Conor Gaston and Anthony Watson I expect. Whist both are young, I am more than happy to see them get some gametime should Tom need to be rested at any point.

Tighthead is THE issue.

I agree that BS has a clear idea about what he wants and I am excited about some of the additions to the squad. They will definitely take some time to all settle, but I am positive about the future. (As long as we sign a quality tighthead)!!!

Just a quick question, does Tom Homer miss a shot at goal often ? This is not a sarcky question, it's just every time I have seen him play he never seems to miss a penalty or conversions, or is he hot and cold and I am just lucky to have seen his good games ?

He's one of the most consistent goal kickers in the country LD, misses very few and has exceptional range, regularly knocking them over from inside our own half. He is a big asset for with his boot.

Bathite wrote:Steady, with Perenise at TH, we can't be that critical!

Sh! Think I got away with that!

Ozzy3213 wrote:He's one of the most consistent goal kickers in the country LD, misses very few and has exceptional range, regularly knocking them over from inside our own half. He is a big asset for with his boot.

England honours on the horison you might think then Ozzy, he reminds me a lot of Neil Jenkins with his composure and sucsess rate.

Not sure LD. I rate him highly, but FB is a position where England have some strength in depth. Foden, Brown and Goode have all put in good performances in a white jersey in the last year, so Homer will have to up his attacking threat with ball in hand a bit more, and continue to be consistent with the boot in order to get near the EPS.

It is not beyond him though, and I think he has the potential to do it, just need to see him being a little more positive in going with his attacking instinct this season.

To be fair Ozzie, the player in that list that I put infront of him is Foden, and he is not immune to the odd balls up. Having another option at kicker in your side could become invaluable, look at Wales with Halfpenny.

If England go with someone like Cipriani at Fly-half, then Homer could be invaluable. If he stays injury free, and works on his attacking game, as Ozzy says, then he'd be in with a shout.

If we're talking scrummaging at prem level only then Marler and Johnston are both very good, i've spoken to Marler before and he definitely loves his scrummaging more then loose play!

Ozzy do you think Homer could ever play 10?

Why not just move Homer on to a wing? All we use our wingers for at the moment is kick returns which he could do better then them anyway, then we have Foden at fb if we want to run it and Ashton to make the inside breaks etc.

I actually started off mentioning that tongue in cheek but the more I write the better it does sound...

yappysnap wrote:If we're talking scrummaging at prem level only then Marler and Johnston are both very good, i've spoken to Marler before and he definitely loves his scrummaging more then loose play!

Ozzy do you think Homer could ever play 10?

http://www.getreading.co.uk/sport/rugby/london_irish/s/2111874_london_irishs_tom_homer_not_ready_yet_for_no_10_shirt

To be fair Ozzie, the player in that list that I put infront of him is Foden, and he is not immune to the odd balls up. Having another option at kicker in your side could become invaluable, look at Wales with Halfpenny.

Goode is also a half way decent points kicker from full back as well. He also offers a better running and creative threat than Homer. That's the style of play Homer should be aiming to replicate, he lacks the speed or Foden or the power of Brown but the secondary playmaker or the thinking man's fullback ala Geordan Murphy is a role he could step up to if he works on his all round game. He has the basic footballing skills but is currently to content to stay back and be a bit conservative. That may be easier for him because the rest of the backline is so attacking where as say Goode at Sarries is stuck in a conservative backline and is positively encouraged to try and mix it up a bit.

If international honours is what he wants he needs to be in and around the pecking order sooner rather than later.

I saw that photo in the article and all I could think was 'why is he bungie jumping in the stadium mid game? And from the looks of it his ropes too long...!!'

Still interesting to read though and maybe something to watch out for.

I find peoples perceptions of Homer very interesting. I don't think Goode offers a better running threat than Homer and althopugh not an out and out speedster Homer is pacier than he looks. He is also fairly powerful. What he lacked last season was the confidence to back his own judgement on when to run the ball, and when to pass or kick. This may have been in part due to some poor performances from the team as a whole, but there were many occasions where he fielded a ball kicked to us, looked as if he was going to run it back, only to then almost retiecently kick for touch as he was worried that he may get isolated and turned over.

When he did run the ball, he regularly made good ground, breaking tackles or finding gaps, he just needs to back himself to do it more often. It is going to be an interesting season for him. As I have said previously, if we can get some sort of forward dominance in games, then I can see him really flourishing.

See his tries versus Worcester and Leicester from last season for an example of what he can do with the ball in hand...

yappysnap wrote:If we're talking scrummaging at prem level only then Marler and Johnston are both very good, i've spoken to Marler before and he definitely loves his scrummaging more then loose play!

Ozzy do you think Homer could ever play 10?

Johnston very good?? For half the season he was the most penalised player in the prem! Player, not prop, player! Yep he sorted it out, but conned many refs with some dodgy binding.

Ayerza and Castro are world class scrummagers!

True at the beginning of the season he was pinged a lot but by the end he was the key component of an underpowered Quins scrum which still over came every team it met.

Basically he learnt on the fly and became a better player for it, so yes now i'd say he is one of the best out there in the Prem.

Internationaly there are still a lot better though.

I agree with Sam.

Ozzy3123 as you are a London Irish fan it hardly surprises me you believe Homer is more of an attacking threat than Goode.

From your description of Homer it sounds like he lacks vision and decision making skills which are integral to becoming a decent full back.

Goode is not as pacy as other FBs but he makes good decisions,he has good vision and is elusive. He mixes his game up which keeps the opposition guessing.

As it stands Goode is the greater running threat but Homer could in the future become more so than Goode.

beshocked

We'll agree to disagree on this one as I could level the same as you level at me about being a Saracens fan so it's hardly a surprise that you belive that Goode is the greater running threat.

Basically he learnt on the fly and became a better player for it, so yes now i'd say he is one of the best out there in the Prem

Depends whether the refs can be talked into believing the dribble that COS pulled last year. He can't get a bind because his 'hit' is so big the opposition fall backwards. Nothing to do with him refusing to straighten his arm and using his arm as a karate style block on the looseheads attempted bind then.

We'll agree to disagree on this one as I could level the same as you level at me about being a Saracens fan so it's hardly a surprise that you belive that Goode is the greater running threat.

I'll have to side with Beshocked mainly because Goode offers the change of pace and adds that creative spark in the biggest games. It was he who called the quick lineout and fed the pass out wide for Brits and then Short for the try in the AP Final Sarries won. It was he who fashioned a couple of scoring chances from nothing in the AP Semi Final last season as a fairly poor Sarries side crashed out. His vision makes up for his lack of pace. Still annoys me Sarries managed to keep hold of him when Leicester tried to pry him away a few years ago (2008ish?).

Sam

No problem with you agreeing with beshocked, you are impartial in this particular debate.

I wonder if LI could get Homer to develop as a 12, now that would be beneficial to England! He has enough size and pace so as not to out of place and he can pick an angle from his time at 15. A little experience at 10 in the past should aid his play making skills and his boot will take the pressure off the 10.

How about?
10.Ford
11.Foden
12.Homer
13.Tuilagi
14.Ashton
15.Goode

I think Foden would be the only one over 25.

Why not just play him on the wing?

15. Foden
14. Ashton
11. Homer

That looks pretty balanced to me and Homer would struggle to be less effective then Strettle.

Sam

I like the idea of Homer at 12, I think he has all the tools to pay there, however I think the likelihood of him getting any time in that position for London Irish this season is zero.

This is true Ozzy, with only young guys as back up fullbacks and a selection of centre options on hand Homer is unlikely to be shifted from the 15 shirt. Oh well, he'll have to push on and improve his game and try to get into the England team that way.

formerly known as Sam wrote:I wonder if LI could get Homer to develop as a 12, now that would be beneficial to England! He has enough size and pace so as not to out of place and he can pick an angle from his time at 15. A little experience at 10 in the past should aid his play making skills and his boot will take the pressure off the 10.

How about?
10.Ford
11.Foden
12.Homer
13.Tuilagi
14.Ashton
15.Goode

I think Foden would be the only one over 25.

Sam, in a years time Mr Fitzpatrick will be back in the prem...ready to stke his claim for the 12 shirt.

He could do the job GF, would like to see him being a little more creative and a little less prone to being pinged before stepping up to the England squad.

Agreed...hopefully he can use this season to improve his playmaking side...if he can he could a serious challenger.

His physicality is scary...and he's started the pre-season strong again...was ferocious against Edinburgh...and with Crocket and Tui'polutu challenging he will have to raise his game...