Jeff: The overdue TMO changes.

by Portnoy Wed 22 Aug 2012, 7:57 am

Alongside the new law changes, scrum engagement protocols and improved player-safety (in particular, concussion), I'm looking forward to the extended authority of the TMO to refer back to the start of the phase of play before any score.
Although I'd have also have tentatively supported, in addition, the concept of limited touchline challenges.

http://www.leicestertigers.com/news/14419.php (plus, no doubt, many other sources).

The TMO changes are

This trial, which has been supported by the RFU's Laws Sub Committee and the TMO Steering Group, will take place in all matches shown live on ESPN and Sky Sports, and allow the match referee to refer to the TMO incidents that have led to the scoring of a try at any point from the last stoppage in play. In addition, the TMO will be able to intervene in incidents of foul play.

The full TMO trials are as follows:

TMO may be referred to as per the current application as well as:
1. When match officials are unsure whether foul play has occurred anywhere on the field or in-goal
2. When match officials believe there may have been an infringement by the team that scored a try
3. When match officials believe a try was prevented by an infringement
4. To confirm the success or otherwise of kicks at goal

Infringements listed by the IRB include knock-ons, forward passes, player in touch, offsides, obstructions, tackling a player without the ball, foul play and double movement in the act of scoring.

How does TMO adjudicate?

• When asked to intervene by the referee (except for incidents of significant foul play where the TMO can ask the referee to stop the game)
• Referrals can now go back to the previous restart, i.e. penalty, free-kick, lineout, scrum, kick-off
• If it is not clear, the TMO is to advise there is no clear evidence and the referee will need to make a decision
• TMO to advise on the type of infringement, the recommended sanction and where play is to restart.
• TMOs can be advised on infringements by the team that scored or touched down, as well as if a try has been prevented from being scored
• If there is doubt as to whether the try would have been scored the TMO must then advise the appropriate sanction.
• If foul play is referred, the TMO is to make recommendations as to the appropriate sanctions, as an assistant referee can currently do.

If successful, the sooner these trials can be adopted internationally by club and country competitions, the better in order to minimise clearly unfair/bad, result-affecting decisions.

by AsLongAsBut100ofUs Wed 22 Aug 2012, 8:20 am

Very good news indeed. Not sure I'm ready for limited challenge yet tho, having seen the hockey at the Olympics

by Portnoy Wed 22 Aug 2012, 8:35 am

AsLongAsBut100ofUs wrote:Very good news indeed. Not sure I'm ready for limited challenge yet tho, having seen the hockey at the Olympics

True As. But what appears to be have overlooked is that the restart prior to the try 'event' may have been caused by an overlooked but significant foul/forward pass etc. 50 yards up the pitch resulting in a scrum 5m from the line. The scrum would on these guidelines would not allow the ref/TMO to refer back to the initial incident.

A touchline protest from the side regarding (say holding back or a missed forward pass) could then be referred back.
One unsuccessful appeal per half?

[ed - the touchline protest would have to specific and registered with the 4th official within 30 seconds of the incident and reviwed before the ensuing break of play)

by Welshmushroom Wed 22 Aug 2012, 3:25 pm

I've actually got grave concerns regarding these law changes.

Firstly its not always a certanty the TMO gets it right. Now I am all for bringing in technology to conclusivly help the Ref but lets keep in mind the TMO is also just a human being.

More importanly though I'm concerned at the stop start nature of this rule taking away from the flow of the game. I would hate to see Rugby turn into NFL Football. It's also worth keeping in mind that some refs tend to already over use the TMO just to shirk responsibilty. If the technology is used in the right manner im all for it but if this starts seeing TMO's being used before every try is awarded it would certanly take the shine off the game.

The more I think about it, I actually like the fact Refs make the occasional mistakes. It keeps the game real for me and interesting (in the sense of talking points after a match and all that).

I hate to sound like Brian Moore here but given that the Scrum is such a shambles and spear tackles have become a virtual joke, why on earth are these laws being trialled when clearly others should be tackled as more of a major concern. Its a very rare occurance that Refs get it horribly wrong anyway and hardly a everymatch occurance like Scrums & Spear Tackles.

by **Ozzy3213** Wed 22 Aug 2012, 3:49 pm

The full TMO trials are as follows:

TMO may be referred to as per the current application as well as:
1. When match officials are unsure whether foul play has occurred anywhere on the field or in-goal
2. When match officials believe there may have been an infringement by the team that scored a try
3. When match officials believe a try was prevented by an infringement
4. To confirm the success or otherwise of kicks at goal

Infringements listed by the IRB include knock-ons, forward passes, player in touch, offsides, obstructions, tackling a player without the ball, foul play and double movement in the act of scoring.

How does TMO adjudicate?

• When asked to intervene by the referee (except for incidents of significant foul play where the TMO can ask the referee to stop the game)
• Referrals can now go back to the previous restart, i.e. penalty, free-kick, lineout, scrum, kick-off

Reference what I have put in bold, my understanding then is that if team A kicks off, goes through 10 phases, then gets turned over, and team B then go through 10 phases then get turned over, then team A go through another 10 and score, but the ref is unsure of something and requests the TMO, he can go all the way back to the kick off. That could provide for an awful long stoppage.

by thebandwagonsociety Wed 22 Aug 2012, 4:39 pm

For the serious foul play, I'd love the following for evening/night games. Give the TMO control of the flood lights, a strong spot light and the stadium announcement system. If he see foul play, then he can cut the lights, put a spot light on the infringing player and call out "we'll have none of that sort of play around here john doe, that's getting you 10 minutes in the bin to think about what you've done". The spot light then follows the player to the sin bin before play restarts.

On the decision of how far back can the TMO go, there are really valid points on the time involved. As it is, camera angles don't give enough views to catch all forward passes and if the ball has been in play for 6, even 10 minutes, then it has to be reviewed from the start. You can't just rewind 15 seconds of play for the forward pass if there was a penalty worthy incident 9 minutes earlier in that phase of play.

But fair dues to them for the attempt and lets see how good it works in practice.

by formerly known as Sam Wed 22 Aug 2012, 4:41 pm

For the serious foul play, I'd love the following for evening/night games. Give the TMO control of the flood lights, a strong spot light and the stadium announcement system. If he see foul play, then he can cut the lights, put a spot light on the infringing player and call out "we'll have none of that sort of play around here john doe, that's getting you 10 minutes in the bin to think about what you've done". The spot light then follows the player to the sin bin before play restarts.

Whilst under the cover of darkness there is at least three other cheap shots leading to a full blown brawl by the time the lights are back on with both 7s wrestling over the ball whilst claiming to the ref they both were in posession all along.

by thebandwagonsociety Wed 22 Aug 2012, 4:45 pm

formerly known as Sam wrote:
For the serious foul play, I'd love the following for evening/night games. Give the TMO control of the flood lights, a strong spot light and the stadium announcement system. If he see foul play, then he can cut the lights, put a spot light on the infringing player and call out "we'll have none of that sort of play around here john doe, that's getting you 10 minutes in the bin to think about what you've done". The spot light then follows the player to the sin bin before play restarts.

Whilst under the cover of darkness there is at least three other cheap shots leading to a full blown brawl by the time the lights are back on with both 7s wrestling over the ball whilst claiming to the ref they both were in posession all along.

And that can become known as the true dark arts of the game!

by Portnoy Wed 22 Aug 2012, 4:56 pm

Ozzy3213 wrote:
The full TMO trials are as follows:

TMO may be referred to as per the current application as well as:
1. When match officials are unsure whether foul play has occurred anywhere on the field or in-goal
2. When match officials believe there may have been an infringement by the team that scored a try
3. When match officials believe a try was prevented by an infringement
4. To confirm the success or otherwise of kicks at goal

Infringements listed by the IRB include knock-ons, forward passes, player in touch, offsides, obstructions, tackling a player without the ball, foul play and double movement in the act of scoring.

How does TMO adjudicate?

• When asked to intervene by the referee (except for incidents of significant foul play where the TMO can ask the referee to stop the game)
• Referrals can now go back to the previous restart, i.e. penalty, free-kick, lineout, scrum, kick-off

Reference what I have put in bold, my understanding then is that if team A kicks off, goes through 10 phases, then gets turned over, and team B then go through 10 phases then get turned over, then team A go through another 10 and score, but the ref is unsure of something and requests the TMO, he can go all the way back to the kick off. That could provide for an awful long stoppage.

Unless I misunderstand you Oz, The TMO can refer back to the start of phase of play culminating in the try. (presumably implying any scoring event).

But not stuff like penalty decisions etc. - which is also a reason why I'd tentatively advocate touchline appeals.

by Sponsored content

Jeff: The overdue TMO changes.

Jeff: The overdue TMO changes.

Re: Jeff: The overdue TMO changes.

Re: Jeff: The overdue TMO changes.

Re: Jeff: The overdue TMO changes.

Re: Jeff: The overdue TMO changes.

Re: Jeff: The overdue TMO changes.

Re: Jeff: The overdue TMO changes.

Re: Jeff: The overdue TMO changes.

Re: Jeff: The overdue TMO changes.

Re: Jeff: The overdue TMO changes.