[solved]Heavyweight rankings Top 10 Head to Head with a time machine and Peak for Peak. EDITED

First topic message reminder :

Exactly as it says on the tin

Your Heavyweight top tens on a who beats who basis and with no adjustments made to the fighters for weight height etc. Example - I'd have Tua knocking out Norton in less than 3 rounds but I don't think Tua can be ranked higher than him by any stretch of the imagination - well except this one. I've got Ali at the top automatically but may change as it goes through the fights. At the end - we can compare it to our genuine top 10's and see how they compare. The top ranked is who has the most wins and so forth. J

Just to limit this to a sensible sample we'll use http://www.sports-ratings.com/fights/heavyweight-boxing-top-100-alltime-peak-rating.html just the top 30 fighters there.


I'm not claiming these are reliable and the rankings are all over the place but if you just use the top 30 fighters there to select a top ten of who wins the most - in a single fight, it would contain most if not all of the greatest heavies that would grace our normal top 10s. So consider this a casual fans list. I've been thinking about this for half an hour and its giving me a headache - so a problem shared is a problem halved.

Shah

EDIT

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Right Lads, i've got my lot for this

1) Ali
2) Foreman
3) Louis
4) Liston
5) Tyson
6) Holmes
7) Lewis
8) Frazier
9) Wladimir Klitschko
10) Johnson


Would you like to compare them to your genuine top 10's and note which keeps his ranking and who loses his position in the top 10 entirely.

Foreman-Marciano would have been a massacre, falling only just short of Marciano actually having his head removed cleanly from his shoulders.

There aren't many match ups mentioned above that I'd bet oh-so heavily on, but Foreman to take Rocky out inside three rounds is one of them.

azania wrote:Yes Rocky is a top 10 HW. The top 10 worst HW in history.

Haha. Nothing like an exaggeration to get your opinion across.

88Chris05 wrote:Foreman-Marciano would have been a massacre, falling only just short of Marciano actually having his head removed cleanly from his shoulders.

There aren't many match ups mentioned above that I'd bet oh-so heavily on, but Foreman to take Rocky out inside three rounds is one of them.

Agreed.

Marciano is ruined in one round and if it goes further its probably only because marciano landing on the floor woke him up. Its been pointed out before that there are very few one sided batterings at the level where we are discussing - and rarely will someone find it easy against any of the other. Here is one of those rare matchups where one gets battered and bowled over with ease.

Marciano had one of the best chins and best punches in the history of boxing so to say he does not last 3 rounds with Foreman shows how little you people understand boxing. Marciano was NEVER knocked out. The same cant be Foreman who was as powerful as Marciano but did not have his chin or heart. Marcianos chin would be the difference because he could take Foremans punches but Foreman would not be able to withstand Marcianos for a full fight. Marciano wins by KO in the same round Ali beat Foreman.

Gordy wrote:Foreman who was as powerful as Marciano

We'll have to agree to disagree on that one Gordy.

Marciano was the anti anti christ. Foreman is a symbol his surname short for Four Horsemen of the apocalypse. Marciano is the white knight bringer of a divine judgement and the 3 bringers of evil are sky sports 1,2 & 3 with their hype.

Gordy wrote:Marciano had one of the best chins and best punches in the history of boxing so to say he does not last 3 rounds with Foreman shows how little you people understand boxing.

Rest assured, Gordy - I've always got my pen and note pad at the ready whenever I see you've posted, in an attempt to remedy this.

88Chris05 wrote:

Gordy wrote:Marciano had one of the best chins and best punches in the history of boxing so to say he does not last 3 rounds with Foreman shows how little you people understand boxing.

Rest assured, Gordy - I've always got my pen and note pad at the ready whenever I see you've posted, in an attempt to remedy this.

I didnt know you could read write and understand gibberish?! You is the renaissance man

TopHat24/7 wrote:

John Bloody Wayne wrote:Over 15 rounds...
Ali
Foreman
Louis
Liston
Holmes
Dempsey
Lewis
Frazier
Bowe
Tyson

Do you not think 15 rounds would be Foreman's weakness JBW? That maybe he'd be gassing after 10 and susceptible to being taken out by other fighters in your top10 that has survived his early onslaught? Similar comments could be made about Tyson though you have him suitably lower ranked.

I specified 15 because under the rules of his own time, Jeffries at his best may well beat any of them in my opinion. Although I appreciate some might think he'd be too primitive and get taken apart.

A shorter distance would suit Foreman better, but when I'd pick him to slaughter most fighters in a couple of rounds it makes little difference! He could also still take a man out late into the fight if he needed to. It was only Ali's combination of freakish toughness, supreme ring savvy and reflexes stopping him from taking direct hits that ever really exhausted Foreman at his best. By the time he fought Young he took a less hyper aggressive approach early on. I think the Foreman from the Frazier, Norton and Ali fights leaves Young a crumpled heap in about 30 seconds. I really do rate Big George!

I rank Tyson lower because, although he had a similar tendency to blast people out early, he never did it to anyone of Frazier, or even Norton's caliber. I think he could be outboxed by certain fighters, and swarmers were pretty much made for Foreman. Also, Tyson could take people out later at his best, but they weren't of a great standard. Ribalto may have taken him into the second half, only to get KO'd later, but a fighter like Frazier would've only got stronger as the fight went on, provided they survive the early onslought which isn't a given.

As much as I like Marciano as a fighter if he survived further than two rounds against Foreman i'd be incredibly surprised, he was a tough sod who would get up a fair few times in that time but eventually he would be stopped early. Marciano was a very slow starter so going up against one of the most destructive starters is only going to result in a massacre.

People need to understand how boxing styles work. Marcianos style was based on his power, chin, guts and stamina. He just kept coming forward and broke his opponents down. Foreman does not have the style to beat him because his chin is not as strong and his stamina is not as good. If he tried to stand up to Marciano he would end up getting knocked out and that is the way Foreman fought. There is only one fighter in history that could afford to stand up to Marciano and that is Tyson. Tyson also hit hard like Marciano but he was fast so he could avoid punches that Foreman would get hit with. The way to beat Marciano is the way Ali and Lewis would do it which is to keep away from Marciano and jab him from a distance. Lewis and Ali had the best jabs of any heavyweight and also had great movement so Marcianos style would not work against them. As Ali said you cant hit what you cant see. Foreman would not be able to fight like Ali or Lewis because his style was to overpower his opponent and knock them out. Marciano was too powerful and tough for this to work.

Think it's you Gordy who need to understand how boxing works.

I point out where people are mistaken in their list and take the time to explain where they are wrong and suddenly its me that needs to understand boxing! I think its the people that think Audley Harrison would beat Marciano or that Foreman would knock him out in 3 rounds that need to learn! Marciano was NEVER knocked out and had one of the best chins in boxing so to say he would get knocked out in 3 rounds shows how much more people need to learn. Foreman would try to overpower Marciano which is completely the wrong style for someone as tough and hard punching as Marciano. The only way to beat Marciano was to play it safe by avoiding his punches and using speed to outjab him.

Foreman is what 30lbs bigger, much stronger, just as tough and carries more power. A brawler charging into a slugger is only going to end in a ko when all that is considered.

Size is not the important thing in boxing. The heavyweights around now are large but they are rubbish and considered the worst ever heavyweight era. Foremans style would not work on Marciano because Marciano had a better chin and was to tough to overpower. Marciano is one of the hardest punchers ever in boxing. Foreman is too but he does not have Marcianos chin or stamina. Look at Foremans fight against Ali, he does not have the stamina or chin to get past the middle rounds and if he tried to overpower somebody as tough as Marciano this would happen to him again. It never happened to Marciano. Lewis had the perfect style and mentality to beat Marciano because he would use his jab and box intelligently to keep out of Marcianos way. Foreman would just charge in and try and knock Marciano out which is a recipe for disaster. Only Ali, Lewis and Tyson would beat Marciano.

You talk such a load of rubbish

Marciano for the record stands an infinitely better chance against Lewis than he does foreman.

How do you expect to learn if you are not willing to listen?! Im trying to explain to you why Marciano would beat Foreman. It is not based on size its based on style and ability!

Gordy wrote:How do you expect to learn if you are not willing to listen?!

Yeah Ghosty pay attention

I only listen to those who talk sense and you never talk any. Marciano stands a 1% chance of beating foreman.

If size is not important in boxing gordy, why do we have weight divisions. You are aware the rocky would have been a cruiserweight today, a small one at that? Of course you are, because you understand boxing. Silly me.

Gordy wrote:How do you expect to learn if you are not willing to listen?! Im trying to explain to you why Marciano would beat Foreman. It is not based on size its based on style and ability!

Oh god - It may be the reult of what i smoked earlier but ive been giggling for half an hour at that one.

ShahenshahG wrote:

Gordy wrote:How do you expect to learn if you are not willing to listen?! Im trying to explain to you why Marciano would beat Foreman. It is not based on size its based on style and ability!

Oh god - It may be the reult of what i smoked earlier but ive been giggling for half an hour at that one.

Yeah, crack will do that to you.

I think there's a whiff around Gordy of him being someone like Scottrf at the windup. There's no way he's real.

Gordy wrote:Size is not the important thing in boxing. The heavyweights around now are large but they are rubbish and considered the worst ever heavyweight era. Foremans style would not work on Marciano because Marciano had a better chin and was to tough to overpower. Marciano is one of the hardest punchers ever in boxing. Foreman is too but he does not have Marcianos chin or stamina. Look at Foremans fight against Ali, he does not have the stamina or chin to get past the middle rounds and if he tried to overpower somebody as tough as Marciano this would happen to him again. It never happened to Marciano. Lewis had the perfect style and mentality to beat Marciano because he would use his jab and box intelligently to keep out of Marcianos way. Foreman would just charge in and try and knock Marciano out which is a recipe for disaster. Only Ali, Lewis and Tyson would beat Marciano.

As soon as the bell goes for round 1, Rocky would walk straight to Foreman and Big George would hit him. The only way this goes past 30 seconds is because of Rocky's strong chin and a slow count by the ref. All over in 45 seconds.

I can see Rocky giving that friend of Dorothy, Lewis, a hard time though (no pun intended).

alma wrote:

superflyweight wrote:I think there's a whiff around Gordy of him being someone like Scottrf at the windup. There's no way he's real.

Bit sad if it is

there's certainly a whiff of something around him.

i can see where super is coming from, but i kind of assume someone on the wind up would get bored and be less persistent. I do recognise that doesnt account for az
i like to think of gordy as waingro's brother, i miss waingro's catchy one-liners (wlad being vitali's brother etc) and gordy's presence here provide's some solace for me. I find adopting this approach stops me getting as wound up as some at the 'left field' content of his posts.

superflyweight wrote:I think there's a whiff around Gordy of him being someone like Scottrf at the windup. There's no way he's real.

Not a chance for me. There is no way Scotty would be so obvious with the windup. He would be way more subtle than young Gordy whose modus operandi never changes.