RaboP12 (Round 1): Scarlets vs Leinster k/o - 18:30 Sat, 1 September 2012 (Parc y Scarlets)

First topic message reminder :

We are into the final countdown to the start of the season. A home win, a heavy away loss, and a tight away draw against Gloucester, Saints and Sale is a mixed bag of warm up games. Once teams are out, I'll throw them in here.

Leinster Team
15: Isa Nacewa
14: Andrew Conway
13: Brendan Macken
12: Noel Reid
11: Fionn Carr
10: Ian Madigan
9: Isaac Boss

1: Heinke van der Merwe
2: Richardt Strauss
3: Jamie Hagan
4: Damian Browne
5: Devin Toner
6: Dominic Ryan
7: Shane Jennings CAPTAIN
8: Leo Auva'a

REPLACEMENTS:

16: Aaron Dundon
17: Jack McGrath
18: Martin Moore
19: Tom Denton
20: Jordi Murphy
21: John personey
22: Collie O'Shea
23: Darren Hudson

Scarlets team v Leinster Saturday 1st September 2012, Parc y Scarlets kick off 18.30.

15 Liam Williams, 14 George North, 13 Gareth Maule, 12 Scott Williams, 11 Andy Fenby
10 Aled Thomas, 9 Tavis Knoyle, 1 Rhodri Jones, 2 Ken Owens, 3 Deacon Manu, 4 George Earle, 5 Richard Kelly, 6 Aaron Shingler, 7 Josh Turnbull, 8 Rob McCusker (capt)

Replacements: 16 Matthew Rees, 17 Phil John, 18 Samson Lee, 19 Sione Timani, 20 Kieran Murphy, 21 Gareth Davies, 22 Rhys Priestland, 23 Jonathan Davies

Players unavailable through injury are Dale Ford, Gareth Owen, Morgan Stoddart, Emyr Phillips, Jake Ball, Joel Galley and Rob Evans.

Notch - if you can, Scrum V is on at 6.15pm I believe, you should be able to watch it on the Beeb online

Dodger

I'd argue that

Strauss was a starter

VDM 2nd choise

Toner starter

Jennings starter

Ryan 2nd choice

Boss 50/50 with Redann

Madigan 2nd choice

Nacewa starter

Carr started more games than most back 3's last season (arguably starter)

I'd say you'd see all these boys in the matchday squad in a big HC game, and therefore be deemed first teamers in my book.

Ross I don't rate that much at all, he tends to get hyped by his own publicists more than neutral or opposition players/fans/pundits.
Don't get me wrong he is first choice, but he's in a long list of decent TH's in international and club rugby.

Mist?

Mist was more difficult to get through in NZ a few weeks ago!!!

I know what your saying, Darcy and BOD are generally strong together, but in reality BOD's not the player he was last year, let alone 3 seasons ago, and Darcy was prone to a lot of errors last season.

I used to think they were just supermen, not very big, not very flamboyant but immense performers, but last few seasons we see less and less of them, and when we do it isn't the same.

Thanks dreamer

Leinster side the won the HC:

15 Rob Kearney
14 Fergus McFadden
13 Brian O'Driscoll
12 Gordon D'Arcy
11 Isa Nacewa
10 Johnny Sexton
9 Eoin Reddan

1 Cian Healy
2 Richardt Strauss
3 Mike Ross
4 Leo Cullen (capt)
5 Brad Thorn
6 Kevin McLaughlin
7 Sean O'Brien
8 Jamie Heaslip

Only Nacewa & Strauss played last night. Ok Thorn has gone now, but that's still 12 x 1st team, 1st-choice players. And missing some strong bench options to boot. Even ASM couldn't cope with that. Not making excuses but... it just is. And I still believe that the bulk of those players last night, will cope this year. They have to. But they will need a few leaders back, to help them perform and grow.

You are way off with a lot of them mate. Carr a starter? Thats laughable he started very few games for Leinster last season....Jennings is behind McLaughlin, Toner may be a starter this season but wasn't last. Boss is second choice behind Reddan. This is Leinster's first choice team that started the HC final.

R Kearney; F McFadden, B O'Driscoll, G D'Arcy, I Nacewa; J Sexton, E Reddan; C Healy, R Strauss, M Ross; L Cullen (capt), B Thorn, K McLaughlin; S O'Brien, J Heaslip.

There are two players that started the HC final in the Leinster team that played Scarlets and as I said a lot of those guys aren't even second choice they are academy players.

As much as I love Healy, I wouldnt be too concerned if he isnt playing because VDM is such a good performer. Sexton would be a big loss and Kearney would be a blow but not an utterly devestating one(Nacewa). Ross I feel would be the biggest blow, Hagan did well yesterday but I dont know if he could play like that in big matches. And in fairness we managed okay without Drico I felt, but I still wouldnt want to lose him, im just saying there is someone else to do a job if he cant play, not as good a job as Drico, but not a bad job. D'arcy I feel he can be replaced(mind you i really dislike him) or maybe he cant, anyway i wont mind McFadden getting the 12 spot over him.

VDM is better in the scrum that Healy, but for sure I would say Healy offers more in the loose. Think he's got loads to work on in the scrums though.

The pack Leinster put out yesterday has easily beaten the Scarlets before so I don't really buy this whole depleted Leinster talk.They were good enough to get to the final last season so....

Will say I thought it would be much closer than it was.

The pack wasnt really weakend it was more the backs like Reid and although its hard for me to say, macken too. I mean out of all the pack, not one of them bar maybe Damien Browne you wouldnt worry a whole much about being picked against anyone except Munster or the Ospreys.

rugbydreamer wrote:VDM is better in the scrum that Healy, but for sure I would say Healy offers more in the loose. Think he's got loads to work on in the scrums though.

The pack Leinster put out yesterday has easily beaten the Scarlets before so I don't really buy this whole depleted Leinster talk.They were good enough to get to the final last season so....

Will say I thought it would be much closer than it was.

Thats a fair statement i guess. I wish dave kearney and EOM werent injured. We really need them in the backs. If we had them two, we would actually have a pretty good team out and would have given the scarlets a better game.

Have to make a few points...

That leinster 15 certainly did not win the HC! that may have been the starting 15 on the final day, but there were about 20 more players who all contributed to winning the HC, starting with the bench options on the final day...
Heinke Van der Merwe,
Devin Toner,
Shane Jennings,
Isaac Boss,
Ian Madigan

If they were team options during the final then they are first teamers!

That makes 7 HC finalists on the feild at the Scarlets game!!!

A few youngsters and a weak bench does not make 2nd choice team IMO, a 2nd choice team involves no first teamers, and if it does they are either coming back from injury or needed.

Now I'm not stating that Leinster feilded their full strength team, nor that they were showing arrogance toward Scarlets, when I saw the lineups I saw half of what I was expecting from Leinster and gave the game to Scarlets by around 10 points.

I'm not a Scarlets fan but you have to pay credit where it's due, not just excagorate the weakened team.

drsambo1928 wrote:The pack wasnt really weakend it was more the backs like Reid and although its hard for me to say, macken too. I mean out of all the pack, not one of them bar maybe Damien Browne you wouldnt worry a whole much about being picked against anyone except Munster or the Ospreys.

Hmmmmm............there is quite a lot wrong with that statement.

Artful_Dodger wrote:

drsambo1928 wrote:The pack wasnt really weakend it was more the backs like Reid and although its hard for me to say, macken too. I mean out of all the pack, not one of them bar maybe Damien Browne you wouldnt worry a whole much about being picked against anyone except Munster or the Ospreys.

Hmmmmm............there is quite a lot wrong with that statement.

Explain please dodger

Well you said you wouldn't worry about any of that pack being picked against anyone but Munster and the Ospreys which I find strange given that Ulster have a stronger pack than both. Hence us beating Munster at Thomond Park in the HC quarter finals. Aside from that I don't see how a real Leinster fan can say having one first choicer (maybe 2) in the pack is a pack that isn't really weakened.....

Ulster fan are ye?

Sorry to butt in but Ulster do not have a stronger pack than the Ospreys. I wouldn't say any other team in the Pro12 has a stronger pack than the O's.

I think we do dreamer - especially since you've lost Paul James.

Look forward to the match at the Liberty next week, though we will still be missing a lot of players.

I'd argue that Ulster and O's have the most physically dominant tight 5's in the Rabo, but then how many times do we see their strongest tight 5's in the Rabo.

Munsters pack tend to have an ethos that everyone buys into which makes it very effective, Munsters pack is as abbrassive as anyones, but I wouldn't put it as high as Ulsters.

You see Dodger, this is the great blue magic, Leinster can replace 5 of their first choice pack for a rabo game and still be dominant, Leinster's signings and acadamey are paying dividends. I'll say it again, the only teams i would want the usual starters for are Munster and the Ospreys home and away. Sure away i would like more of a starter pack but only against Connacht (very tricky at home) and maybe Ulster.

Artful_Dodger wrote:I think we do dreamer - especially since you've lost Paul James.

Look forward to the match at the Liberty next week, though we will still be missing a lot of players.

excuse me?! I am a Scarlet, I'll have you know!


James is a big loss for the O's but D Jones and Bevington are both good replacements for him. At the moment without Tip and Ryan they aren't at their best (and they are likely to be without Ian Evans when they play you due to his two yellows). Probs one of the best times you could play them to be honest.

My mistake, I knew you were a Scarlet really.

No better time to play Ulster either, we will still be without Court, Best, Tuohy, Ferris, Henry, Pienaar and Bowe :O

Bowe isn't much of a loss at the moment I wouldn't say. Out of that your biggest loss is easily Pienaar. How long are you without him for?

He's with South Africa in the Four Nations so it will be October

tough breaks for you

I know Scarlets have a couple of signings that are away with that too, so we won't even see them get to train with our squad till then either!

rugbydreamer wrote:

Artful_Dodger wrote:I think we do dreamer - especially since you've lost Paul James.

Look forward to the match at the Liberty next week, though we will still be missing a lot of players.

excuse me?! I am a Scarlet, I'll have you know!


James is a big loss for the O's but D Jones and Bevington are both good replacements for him. At the moment without Tip and Ryan they aren't at their best (and they are likely to be without Ian Evans when they play you due to his two yellows). Probs one of the best times you could play them to be honest.

They're decent replacements. But our scrum will be nowhere as dominant as it has been. Bevington is a hit and miss scrummager at the moment and D Jones can be dominated easily for some reason even with all his experience.

The Ospreys need some decent backrow talent. Tipuric and Ryan Jones carry the backrow, and when they are not available, they are awful.

I'd say last year Ospreys and Ulster had the best front rows. But Leinster had the best back row. Munster, Ospreys, Ulster and Leinster all had very good 2nd rows. Not sure who was best in that department.

wales606 wrote:The Ospreys need some decent backrow talent. Tipuric and Ryan Jones carry the backrow, and when they are not available, they are awful.

I was hoping the O's would release players like Stowers, Bearman and Thomas and concentrate on the up and coming lads like Dan Baker

Well, another appalling first game for Leinster but all credit to the Scarlets, they were worth the win.

Messrs Gibbes and Schmidt have to turn it around for this Saturday, Dragons will be full of confidence coming to the RDS.

maestegmafia wrote:

wales606 wrote:The Ospreys need some decent backrow talent. Tipuric and Ryan Jones carry the backrow, and when they are not available, they are awful.

I was hoping the O's would release players like Stowers, Bearman and Thomas and concentrate on the up and coming lads like Dan Baker

We would have absolutely no depth then

Mickado wrote:Well, another appalling first game for Leinster but all credit to the Scarlets, they were worth the win.

Messrs Gibbes and Schmidt have to turn it around for this Saturday, Dragons will be full of confidence coming to the RDS.

If the Rabo appears on the radar of their priorities they should be able to do that easily. Just a pity that they didn't give a hoot last Saturday, Mick. At 14-6 at half time they preferred to start the fatal subs.

Schmidt out!!!!!

its too early for rugby. cannot get my head around it at all yet.

Oh dear. Boss and ryan may miss the Dragons game this saturday. Bit of an injury crisis now.

LeinsterFan4life wrote:Oh dear. Boss and ryan may miss the Dragons game this saturday. Bit of an injury crisis now.

Don't tell the English supporters on here, they are already calling our league a fix.

LordDowlais wrote:

LeinsterFan4life wrote:Oh dear. Boss and ryan may miss the Dragons game this saturday. Bit of an injury crisis now.

Don't tell the English supporters on here, they are already calling our league a fix.

this also explains why those players were subbed off.