Aviva Premiership Round One Discussion Thread

[Ozzy3213]

First topic message reminder :

It's here folks, the Aviva Premiership season starts on Saturday. Rivalries will be renewed, and everyone will have an opinion on everything. Here is a discussion thread for Round One, with the fixtures listed. As teams are announced I will add them to the thread. I shall save my predictions until I start seeing line ups, as at this stage of the season nobody has any form with which to base a guess on. best of luck to all, but most importantly...



COME ON YOU IRISH

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London Wasps vs. Harlequins
Preview

London Wasps
1 Tim Payne 2 Tom Lindsay 3 Fabio Staibano 4 Joe Launchbury 5 Marco Wentzel 6 James Haskell 7 Jonathan Poff 8 Billy Vunipola; 9 Joe Simpson 10 Nick Robinson 11 Tom Varndell 12 Andrea Masi 13 Elliot Daly 14 Christian Wade 15 Hugo Southwell

Replacements: 16 T Rhys Thomas 17 Simon McIntyre 18 Zak Taulafo 19 Tom Palmer 20 Ashley Johnson 21 Nic Berry 22 Tommy Bell 23 Chris Mayor

Harlequins
15. Mike Brown 14. Tom Williams 13. Matt Hopper 12. Jordan Turner-Hall 11. George Lowe 10. Nick Evans 9. Danny Care; 1. Joe Marler 2. Joe Gray 3. James Johnston 4. Olly Kohn 5. George Robson 6. Maurie Fa'asavalu 7. Chris Robshaw 8. Nick Easter

Replacements: 16. Rob Buchanan 17. Mark Lambert 18. Will Collier 19. Charlie Matthews 20. Tom Guest 21. Karl Dickson 22. Ben Botica 23. Ross Chisholm

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Exeter Chiefs vs. Sale Sharks
Preview

Exeter Chiefs
15 Phil Dollman 14 Josh Tatupu 13 Ian Whitten 12 Jason Shoemark 11 Matt Jess 10 Ignacio Mieres 9 Will Chudley; 1 Brett Sturgess 2 Chris Whitehead 3 Craig Mitchell 4 Tom Hayes 5 Aly Muldowney 6 Tom Johnson 7 James Scaysbrook 8 Richard Baxter

Replacements: 16 Simon Alcott 17 Ben Moon 18 Chris Budgen 19 James Hanks 20 James Phillips 21 Kevin Barrett 22 Gareth Steenson 23 Luke Arscott

Sale Sharks
15. Rob Miller 14. Will Addison 13. Johnny Leota 12. Sam Tuitupou 11. Corne Uys 10. Nick Macleod 9. Dwayne Peel; 1. Eifion Lewis-Roberts 2. Joe Ward 3. Vadim Cobilas 4. Richie Gray 5. Fraser McKenzie 6. James Gaskell 7. David Seymour (c.) 8.Andy Powell

Replacements: 16. Marc Jones 17. Ross Harrison 18. Tony Buckley 19. Kearnan Myall 20. Richie Vernon 21. Cillian Willis 22. Danny Cipriani 23. Jordan Davies.

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Gloucester vs. Northampton Saints
Preview

Gloucester
15. Jonny May 14. Charlie Sharples 13. Mike Tindall 12. Billy Twelvetrees 11. James Simpson-Daniel 10. Freddie Burns 9. Dan Robson; 1. Nick Wood 2. Darren Dawidiuk 3. Rupert Harden 4. Tom Savage 5. Alex Brown (capt) 6. Matt Cox 7. Akapusi Qera 8 Ben Morgan

Replacements: 16. Dan Murphy 17. Huia Edmonds 18. Shaun Knight 19. Will James 20. Sione Kalamafoni 21. Dave Lewis 22. Henry Trinder 23. Martyn Thomas

Northampton Saints
15. Ben Foden 14. Ken Pisi 13. George Pisi 12. Dominic Waldouck 11. Vasily Artemyev 10. Ryan Lamb 9. Lee Dickson; 1. Soane Tonga'uiha 2. Dylan Hartley 3. Brian Mujati 4. Samu Manoa 5. Christian Day 6. Phil Dowson 7. Tom Wood 8. GJ Van Velze

Replacements: 16. Mike Haywood 17. Alex Waller 18. Paul Doran-Jones 19. Mark Sorenson 20. Rhys Oakley 21. Martin Roberts 22. Stephen Myler 23. Luther Burrell

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Worcester Warriors vs. Bath Rugby
Preview

Worcester Warriors
15 Chris Pennell 14 Josh Drauniniu 13 Alex Grove 12 Josh Matavesi 11 David Lemi 10 Andy Goode 9 Shaun Perry; 1 Matt Mullan 2 Aleki Lutui 3 John Andress 4 James Percival 5 Dean Schofield 6 Chris Jones 7 Sam Betty 8 Semisi Taulava

Replacements: 16 Ollie Hayes 17 Ceri Jones 18 James Currie 19 Craig Gillies 20 Matt Kvesic 21 Jonny Arr 22 Joe Carlisle 23 Ben Howard

Bath Rugby
15. Nick Abendanon 14. Tom Biggs 13. Dan Hipkiss 12. Matt Banahan 11. Kyle Eastmond 10. Olly Barkley 9. Michael Claassens; 1. Paul James 2. Lee Mears 3. David Wilson 4. Stuart Hooper (c) 5. Dominic Day 6. Carl Fearns 7. Francois Louw 8. Ben Skirving

Replacements: 16. Ross Batty 17. Nathan Catt 18. Kane Palma-Newport 19. Dave Attwood 20. Will Skuse 21. Mark McMillan 22. Ollie Devoto 23. Jack Cuthbert

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Saracens vs. London Irish
Preview

Saracens
15 Alex Goode 14 Chris Ashton 13 Joel Tomkins 12 Brad Barritt 11 Chris Wyles 10 Charlie Hodgson 9 Richard Wigglesworth; 1 Mako Vunipola 2 Schalk Brits 3 Petrus du Plessis 4 Steve Borthwick 5 Mouritz Botha 6 Kelly Brown 7 Will Fraser 8 Ernst Joubert

Replacements: 16 Jamie George 17 Rhys Gill 18 Carlos Nieto 19 Eoin Sheriff 20 Jackson Wray 21 Neil de Kock 22 Nils Mordt 23 James Short

London Irish
15. Tom Homer 14. Topsy Ojo 13. Jonathan Joseph 12. Sailosi Tagicakibau 11. Marland Yarde 10. Steve Shingler 9. Tomás O’Leary; 1. Max Lahiff 2. Scott Lawson 3. Leo Halavatau 4. George Skivington 5. Bryn Evans (Captain) 6. Jamie Gibson 7. Ofisa Treviranus 8. Jon Fisher

Replacements: 16. Brian Blaney 17. Halani Aulika 18. Cai Griffiths 19. Kieran Low 20. Declan Danaher 21. Alex Gray 22. Shane Geraghty 23. Jack Moates

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London Welsh vs. Leicester Tigers
Preview

London Welsh
15 Tom Arscott 14 Phil MacKenzie 13 Sonny Parker 12 Hudson Tonga'uiha 11 Joe Ajuwa 10 Gordon Ross 9 Jonah Holmes; 1 Franck Montanella 2 Neil Briggs 3 Paulica Ion 4 Jonathan Mills 5. Kirill Kulemin 6 Ed Williamson 7 Lee Beach 8 Daniel Browne.

Replacements: 16 Greg Bateman 17 Tom Bristow 18 Arthur Joly 19 Martin Purdy 20 Alfie To'oala 21 Nick Runciman 22 Seb Jewell 23 Nick Scott

Leicester Tigers
15. Geordan Murphy 14. Scott Hamilton 13. Manu Tuilagi 12. Anthony Allen 11. Vereniki Goneva 10. Toby Flood 9. Micky Young; 1. Lugovi'i Mulipola 2. Tom Youngs 3. Dan Cole 4. Rob Andrew 5. Geoff Parling 6. Steve Mafi 7. Julian Salvi 8. Thomas Waldrom

Replacements: 16. George Chuter 17. Boris Stankovich 18. Martin Castrogiovanni 19. Brett Deacon 20. Jordan Crane 21. Sam Harrison 22. George Ford 23. Matt Smith

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[Ozzy3213]

Back from Twickenham, utterly lost for words so I shall sign off for the night, and perhaps begin to unpick that debacle tomorrow!!!

[Ozzy3213]

Where, oh where to begin with our performance yesterday!

Brian Smith has talked a good game pre season. Notable points from him were that there will be an improvement in discipline (multiple penalties conceded and a yellow card), that defensively we will be stronger (really???), that if we can keep the opposition to around 18 points per match we always have 20 points in us so should win games (3-40!!!) and that we will play running rugby a la Quins as opposed to kicking the leather off the ball (I must have watched a different game yesterday!)

From the minute that Tom Homer missed his first kick I was concerned. Against good teams, you have to take your chances when they come, and ensure you get ahead, as playing catch up against someone like Saracens is always going to an almost impossible task. When Tom shortly after was 0 from 3 off the tee I pretty much figured it wasn't our day.

Strangley, the actually score doesn't really bother me too much. Getting a heap load of points stuck on you by a good side can happen to anyone, but the performance has given me a lot that I am concerned about.

1. Aimless blydi kicking.
McShingles at 10 had a stinker. His decision making and tactical kicking were terrible. What happened to keeping the ball, looking after it and building through the phases? His performance was just not good enough.

2. Forwards.
I want forwards to do the forwards jobs. Too often Leo and Trev were stood static in midfield and then ambled forward to the gainline with the ball making no real head way. All they in effect did, was get in the way of our backline and stop our ability to put together any sort of backs moves at all. In pre season, with Geraghty at 10, we regularly saw him and TOL using loops (a la Leinster), which had the effect of opening up gaps in the defensive line. I did not see this once yesterday.

3. Strengths
Our strenght is not our pack, it is the running threat in our backs, yet we seemed to want to get into a kicking duel and arm wrestle yesterday which we were never going to win. Why we didn't try to turn it into an open game like Wasps did is beyond me.

4. Basics
Shocking. Poor handling, passing, kicking and tackling. From international players this was not acceptable.


Overall, I think it is the most disappointed I have ever been whislt watching my team. There are two things that I have to say. 1. I think we can and will play better than that as the season goes on, and 2. if we can't or don't, then it is going to be a long hard season and our two games against London Welsh will determine who is relegated.

[HongKongCherry]

Its a long season Ozzy I'm sure things will change but hopefully not by next weekend!

I only saw your 2nd half and it just seemed there was a lack of intensity. You guys actually made Borthwick look good! Your performance stuffed up my sport guru round, I had you to beat Sarries by 2.

[gowales]

For people who don't know, you can LEGALLY watch full replays of ALL the games at http://www.premiershiprugby.tv/FullMatchReplays

[LondonTiger]

Its a long season Ozzy I'm sure things will change but hopefully not by next weekend!

I only saw your 2nd half and it just seemed there was a lack of intensity. You guys actually made Borthwick look good! Your performance stuffed up my sport guru round, I had you to beat Sarries by 2.

Olly Barkleys last gasp penalty did that for me.

For much of the game Sarries were no better than LI. Just every so often they slipped the shackles and scored - especially in that purple patch around the 60 minute mark.

[Ozzy3213]

I agree that Saracens were not massively better LT, but that is not my concern really.

We are still missing some key men with injury, and we have a very new squad and coaching set up, so naturally it will take time for them to gel. My concern is that there were very few positives for us to take from the game. I guess it can only get better really, and I am sure that it will, as our players are nowhere near as bad as they looked yesterday.

Was just very, very disappointing.

[LondonTiger]

Aye, the pack looked powder-puff and the backs looked low on skills. Made a mockery of some of Smith's comments in the week.

But things can turn around quickly.

[LondonTiger]

Just looking at the attendances:

Twickenham had 8k extra people in this year.

While Exeter saw a few more than their first home match last season, they will hope the big win will entice more punters as the crowd was still some way below last seasons average.

Glaws and Worcester both saw crowds a little down on the first round last year.

Lets see how many turn up to the Kassam. Though my little group declined to attend, I have a feeling we will see more Tigers fans than LW - despite London Welsh refusing give Tigers an allocation of tickets.

[SirBurger]

Agree with your analysis Ozzy. Probably the most noticeable thing for me though was the frequency with which our players were carrying into contact on their own and being turnover. There was no support and our ruckers only realised they had to contribute 3 or 4 seconds too late.

[yappysnap]

Just recovered from that first Quins game.

Wow.

You could not make it up, I mentioned to some mates that Lowe on the wing against Wade could be dicey and what happens...

That first 50 minutes was like the Wasps of five years ago, massive commitment from the whole XV and lethal on turn overs. Haskell was a huge nuisance for us on the floor, he had Care in his pocket and it's no coincidence that him coming off suddenly lead to a lot more clean ball for us.

On the plus side our scrum seems to have picked up where we left of last season, and our lineout was good enough. We can't ever try that Hopper/Lowe combo again and need to start Lowe next week.

Amazing comeback in the second half, I don't think anyone believed it could happen but the players dug deep, trusted our game plan and kept playing right till the very end.

I think we'll see this a few more times this season, game will be close for the first 60 and then we'll just slowly play the opposition off the park in the last 20. I can not wait.

Unlucky Wasps but you shouldn't be down about it.

[AlastairW]

Well said Yappy.

I can't see COS wanting anything near that kind of game on Friday against Oxford Welsh - What an opener though! I don't have any finger nails left, and sat in the Quins corner on Saturday i have never heard a Rugby crowd so quiet for Evans last penalty to take us to 42.

I think we'll be seeing Lowe start this weekend, after all the talk about making the Stoop a 'fortress' this season i think he'll want to put the boot on the neck quickly and make sure it isn't taken off. Busy few weeks for us at home this month, the bar will be seeing a few too many pennies of my pay check me thinks!

[yappysnap]

Agree with that Alastair.

We'll want to make a statement but not take LW lightly, especially after those tries they scored against Tigers.

I do wonder who'll be rested for the game though, i'll be disappointed if the full first XV is put out as we need to start with the rotation policy as soon as possible ready for the Heiny and Internationals.

[Ozzy3213]

I have to say as neutral, that Wasps chucked it away moreso than Quins went and won it.

Howlers from Robinson and Southwell lead to tries that they shouldn't have conceded, and Young made the wrong changes. Haskell was dominating the breakdown and looked to have plenty of gas in the tank, whereas Billy V was blowing out of his orse by that point, so he brings off Haskell and replaces him with Palmer, and sends Launchbury into the back row.

Mad decision. Launchbury was doing a great job at lock and really working with his back row to keep Wasps on top. Ashley Johnson on for Vunipola was the substitution that was needed, but it looked as if Young just panicked after the chargedown try, and that then seemed to spread through the team.

If Wasps can keep their composure and improve the conditioning of some players, they will cause a lot of teams a lot of problems this season.

[beshocked]

I think Harlequins have become a much more dangerous side because they their mental strength and self belief is vastly improved.

Games that they would have lost in the past have been turned into victories and this fuels their self belief.

A stronger side than Wasps would not have buckled like that but credit to both sides. Wasps did very well in the first place to put 40 points past Quins. Quins have a very good defense normally. To breach it like that bodes well for Wasps and means they could probably unlock most defenses.

Quins look to carry on from where they left off next season.

[Ozzy3213]

Quins problem in the first half was that they just didn't look after the ball well enough. I lost count of the amount of times they went into contact and it got turned over. Once they started protecting it a bit more in the second half, Wasps had to work harder at the breakdown, which was what contributed a bit to some of their players legs going.

[beshocked]

Ozzy3213 unfortunately I couldn't go to the Sarries-London Irish game. Were both sides really as bad as you and LondonTiger make out?

From the highlights it looks like Sarries scored some decent tries with the much maligned Ashton in the thick of the action. Was the match really that boring?

How did Barritt-Tomkins centre combo look?

When is Corbisiero back?

[Ozzy3213]

On a scale of 1 to 10, I would give us a 0 and you guys a 5 beshocked. There was a lack of invention and willingness to put on a show from both sides, which was made to look even worse as a result of the absolute corker of a game that we saw beforehand.

Hard to judge Barritt-Tomkins really, as we didn't put them under any pressure whatsoever, either with or without the ball.

You guys look as if you will play some more attacking stuff this year than you have over the past two seasons, and Ashton will be a very dangerous weapon for you in doing that.

[LondonTiger]

Ozzy3213 unfortunately I couldn't go to the Sarries-London Irish game. Were both sides really as bad as you and LondonTiger make out?

From the highlights it looks like Sarries scored some decent tries with the much maligned Ashton in the thick of the action. Was the match really that boring?

How did Barritt-Tomkins centre combo look?

When is Corbisiero back?

the first half was really poor. Second half Sarries were much improved, it just seemed to take them a long time to realise that LI were offering no threat and they could try and play. We all know they have the talent - which is why at times it is so frustrating to watch them.

[beshocked]

Ozzy3213 is it worth putting on a show by having a paper thin defense?

5/10 for a try bonus win. Nice that means you think we can improve a lot. I like the sound of that!

Sounds like the Tagicakibau gamble at 12 failed. Should really play wingers on the wing! Suppose there wasn't much choice though due to injuries. The alternatives of Geraghty or Shingler at 12 would have hardly inspired confidence!

Ashton is a much maligned player but there's no doubting his quality. He's a confidence player.

Ultimately it's the forwards who lay the foundations though.

[Ozzy3213]

Mate, playing Losi at 12 had nothing to do with why we lost the game. Shingler had a shocker at 10 and our backs saw very little ball as a result of that, and also our props and flankers getting in the way in midfield.

We could have had SBW at 12 and we'd have lost. There was so little intensity to our play it was unbelievable.

[LondonTiger]

5/10 for a try bonus win. Nice that means you think we can improve a lot. I like the sound of that!

5/10 about fair really, as at times in the second half they were outstanding, but for most of the first half were as poor as LI.

Tigers probably deserved no more than 4/10.

Wasps 7.5/10 (10/10 for 3/4s game, 0/10 for last quarter)

Quins 8/10 (6/10 for 3/4s game, 10/10 for last quarter plus extra point for winning)

[BigTrevsbigmac]

Ozzy3213 is it worth putting on a show by having a paper thin defense?

5/10 for a try bonus win. Nice that means you think we can improve a lot. I like the sound of that!

Sounds like the Tagicakibau gamble at 12 failed. Should really play wingers on the wing! Suppose there wasn't much choice though due to injuries. The alternatives of Geraghty or Shingler at 12 would have hardly inspired confidence!

Ashton is a much maligned player but there's no doubting his quality. He's a confidence player.

Ultimately it's the forwards who lay the foundations though.

I think that is doing a disservice to both teams.Particularly Wasps in the first half. Their work at the breakdown producing quick turnovers & then real pace to unlock the defence of Quins was sublime at times.

Our fitness & decisions with substitutes (Masi & Haskell) was more to do with Wasps demise than just a poor defense per se.

A high scoring game doesn't always mean poor defences.

[beshocked]

Would you play Tagicakibau at 12 again? From what I have heard in match reports London Irish played Saracens at their own game? Is that true? Kicking the ball back to the likes of Brits,Goode,Ashton,Joubert?

I seriously can't understand why London Irish didn't take a leaf out of Wasp's book and throw caution to the wind. You have exciting backs. Why don't you use them?

What happened in the forwards battle?

When is Corbisiero back? I see him as London Irish's main man in the pack.

[beshocked]

Ozzy3213 is it worth putting on a show by having a paper thin defense?

5/10 for a try bonus win. Nice that means you think we can improve a lot. I like the sound of that!

Sounds like the Tagicakibau gamble at 12 failed. Should really play wingers on the wing! Suppose there wasn't much choice though due to injuries. The alternatives of Geraghty or Shingler at 12 would have hardly inspired confidence!

Ashton is a much maligned player but there's no doubting his quality. He's a confidence player.

Ultimately it's the forwards who lay the foundations though.

I think that is doing a disservice to both teams.Particularly Wasps in the first half. Their work at the breakdown producing quick turnovers & then real pace to unlock the defence of Quins was sublime at times.

Our fitness & decisions with substitutes (Masi & Haskell) was more to do with Wasps demise than just a poor defense per se.

A high scoring game doesn't always mean poor defences.

I didn't go to the game so can't give an assessment of defenses but conceding 4 or more tries doesn't show your defense is working well. It might be down to the opposition playing well but defenses can be very watertight. Strong cover tackles for example, forcing errors, squeezing the life out of the opposition and slowing the attacking side down.

Maybe paper thin is harsh but it's not good defending. 4+ tries for each side makes for an exciting game though.

[Guest]

With a bit of luck there won't be a need to play him at 12 in the future. Geragthy coming back should shift McShingler to 12, and we've got Sa coming in to play 12 soon, and iHumph to play 10, assuming the rumors that he's going to be forced to retire aren't true.

As has been said, the first half was poor, particularly after quins/wasp, Homer was unusually inaccurate from the kicking tee, ending up with about 25% accuracy.

Irish really looked to me like a team that had hardly played together, Sarries were much better at taking their chances.

[Ozzy3213]

We didn't use our backs because our pack seemed to forget that their primary function is securing the ball and setting us a platform. Half our pack spent so much time waiting out in the backline for the ball rather than hitting the breakdown, we never got any decent ball with which to get our backs moving.

Allied to that the fact that Shingler had a shocker at 10, our backs had no chance. We didn't try to play Saracens at their own game (kick chase), we simply kicked the ball away. There was no chase. If there had been I would be a little happier, as although it would have been a shoite gameplan, it would at least have meant that we actually had one.

I hope this comes across in the right way and not as whinging, but you guys got away with a lot of what I would call streetwise play, little blocks taking out defenders, sneaking in the side of rucks, and hanging onto the ball carrier for a lttle longer, stuff like that, which did not get penalised by Barnes. We were exceptionally naive, and just let you do it. We neither alerted Barnes to the fact and got him to referee it, nor did we decide 'ok, the refs not pinging this stuff, lets get involved and do the same things as well.'

It was schoolboy rugby out there from us I am afraid, and we will need to shape up massively, and fast, if we are going to be competitive this season.

When I saw Corbs at a pre season game, his knee was unstrapped, but he was still limping heavily, so not expecting him back in the immediate future.

[Ozzy3213]

I am just watching the Saracens v LI game back (I know I am a glutton for punishment).

I will post any observations that I have once I've seen it all.

[beshocked]

Ozzy3213 if you feel Saracens were streetwise fair enough. Generally the side that wins are. You have to play to what the ref allows.

I think rugby is actually a very simple game yet generally sides just don't seem to do the basics well. Nail them and it's likely you'll be a whole lot closer to winning. Easy to say but seems difficult to execute!

I do worry about London Irish with Brian Smith at the helm. I do really hope you guys put this match behind you. Hopefully this result kicks the guys into shape - we want to see you playing the kind of attacking rugby we know you can.

[HammerofThunor]

One of the main differences between the games was that neither Wasps nor Quins were particularly trying to illegally slow the ball down, much. That allowed fast ball. For Wasps they took advantage of a centre on the wing defensively and loaded that side with most of their attacking, including Wade and Varndell. Haskell has played pretty much none stop for nearly two years. Him coming off shouldn't be a surprise if people want him playing by the end of the season.

Saracens were largely slowing the ball down and Barnes let them most of the time (which means it's not cheating I suppose); although there were a few penalties and Brown's yellow. Irish played like a team of new players and new coaches...which they are aren't they? I think the commentators said something like 20 players have left. There were a couple of sparks and hopefully if they're trust they might be competing next season (or this if they click fast). Kay said it took them about 2 years to buy into Smiths style previously (sound about right Ozzy?)

[HammerofThunor]

Slight addition.

I thought Lindsay's throwing was pretty damn good compared to previous. Too early to say if it's improved massively or not but hopeful.

[ChequeredJersey]

Ozzy3213 is it worth putting on a show by having a paper thin defense?

5/10 for a try bonus win. Nice that means you think we can improve a lot. I like the sound of that!

Sounds like the Tagicakibau gamble at 12 failed. Should really play wingers on the wing! Suppose there wasn't much choice though due to injuries. The alternatives of Geraghty or Shingler at 12 would have hardly inspired confidence!

Ashton is a much maligned player but there's no doubting his quality. He's a confidence player.

Ultimately it's the forwards who lay the foundations though.

I think that is doing a disservice to both teams.Particularly Wasps in the first half. Their work at the breakdown producing quick turnovers & then real pace to unlock the defence of Quins was sublime at times.

Our fitness & decisions with substitutes (Masi & Haskell) was more to do with Wasps demise than just a poor defense per se.

A high scoring game doesn't always mean poor defences.

I didn't go to the game so can't give an assessment of defenses but conceding 4 or more tries doesn't show your defense is working well. It might be down to the opposition playing well but defenses can be very watertight. Strong cover tackles for example, forcing errors, squeezing the life out of the opposition and slowing the attacking side down.

Maybe paper thin is harsh but it's not good defending. 4+ tries for each side makes for an exciting game though.

Our defence was poor in the first 60 but having a centre at wing against the two fastest and potentially most talented in attack wingers in the Premiership didn't help. Neither did Hopper at 13.

[LondonTiger]

It was a bad selection by COS, made worse by Wasps double loading that wing. You had to feel for Lowe with both Varndell and Wade bearing down on him.

Tigers will need to have a serious think about their defense before we play Wasps. A rather limited LW side outflanked us far too easily. If we give the Wasps flyers that much space they will not let us off the way the exiles did.

[yappysnap]

LT what did you think of your starting 9 and 10? I wasn't that impressed by either to be honest. Would you prefer to see Ford given a bit more game time maybe? And Harrison come in for Young?

[LondonTiger]

Young went off pretty early (at about 20minutes) when we were 17-0 up. Harrison coming on gummed everything up for a while.

Flood, I thought, played pretty well and his passing was key to everything good tigers did.

[Guest]

Scott Hamilton seemed to be coming in for criticism from the Sky people, did you think he was sub-par?

[LondonTiger]

Hamilton is one of the smartest players I have ever seen at Tigers. Sadly he lacks pace. I did not think he was bad yesterday.

Defensively the back 3 were in trouble becaus Goneva loses the plot and allows himself to end up in weird positions. He keeps coming off his wing to defend inside the centres and at times the fringes. this then causes Murphy and Hamilton all sorts of issues as they scamper round on their Zimmer frames to cover the gaps left.

Hopefully Benjamin and thompstone will be playing tonight and can be in the mix for selection on Saturday.

[AlastairW]

We'll want to make a statement but not take LW lightly, especially after those tries they scored against Tigers.

I do wonder who'll be rested for the game though.

Indeed. I can't see much of a change in 1 -5 looking at the fairly large pack Oxford Welsh had on Sunday.

My money would go on Robshaw, Care, Evans being swapped out for Wallace, K. Dickson & Clegg. Would like to see Botica get a run soon though.

[yappysnap]

Yea Dickson really helped on Sat so he's earned the start in my eyes.

I can't see Robshaw missing out but perhaps moving to 6 to allow Wallace on. Evans should be on the bench along with Hopper and I'd like Chisholm on a wing.

[Cumbrian]

Despite the loss, I think Wasps (and English fans) can take positives from their first game. Several players showed up really well. In particualar I am thinking of Wade and Launchbury.

Wade showed that he is deadly with the ball in hand, with or without space (although he faded out of the game when Wasps were struggling to get the ball.)

Launchbury stands out to me as a player who will be an England international for years to come. If there are injuries to any of the second rowers before the A.I's I would be really happy if Launchbury gets called up.

[LondonTiger]

Was it Dickson on, or Haskell off that made the difference?

[yappysnap]

Probably Haskell off if I'm honest. But it's pretty difficult to guess...

Agree with all of that Cumbrian except Launchberry, I just didn't see much from him on Sat that said to me he's an England must have.

Wade looked class but it's a worry about how anonymous he became when we put an actual back three player on and started playing.

I thought Wasps two Italians did very well too.

[LondonTiger]

Harlequins were dire against London Wasps - Mike Brown

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/19464760

[ChequeredJersey]

I listened to that interview and the title the BBC gave the article is pretty misleading as that's not actually what Brown said.

[LondonTiger]

I listened to that interview and the title the BBC gave the article is pretty misleading as that's not actually what Brown said.

Well that is common for the BBC website. Sadly the trustees want to close it down, so much of the work is done by unpaid interns.

[ChequeredJersey]

Doesn't surprise me, didn't mean to sound too harsh to the writers, but lazy journalism is a bugbear

[LondonTiger]

The Beeb have been guilty of that - and dumbing down the headlines to appeal to the majority. Soccer fans have heard of only a few players, thus we get headlines such as "Cipriani's Sale" or "Henson's London Welsh".

Sadly it will only get worse.

[yappysnap]

Just don't go on the Beeb website if it's not good. I use scrum.com and planet rugby as my sources of info and to be honest scrum is good enough, really well looked after and covers every single comp.

[ChequeredJersey]

Probably Haskell off if I'm honest. But it's pretty difficult to guess...

Agree with all of that Cumbrian except Launchberry, I just didn't see much from him on Sat that said to me he's an England must have.

Wade looked class but it's a worry about how anonymous he became when


we put an actual back three player on and started playing.

I thought Wasps two Italians did very well too.

Think it's more that he didn't get much ball and was tired in the last 20

[LondonTiger]

Just don't go on the Beeb website if it's not good. I use scrum.com and planet rugby as my sources of info and to be honest scrum is good enough, really well looked after and covers every single comp.

Unless anyone can give mee a decent multi-sport website I'll be sticking to the Beeb. Too lazy to have different ones for Rugby, Cricket, Golf, Tennis etc

[Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler]

The BBC is pretty good for coverage of welsh rugby but otherwise awful outside the 6nations. Espns scrum.com (although their rabo coverage is shoddy this year) and the telegraph are much better sources. Rugbydump for clips and fun stuff

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