US Open Day 6

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Matches of Note:

Murray v Lopez
Federer v Verdasco
Simon v Fish
Querrey v Berdych
Sock v Almagro
Blake v Raonic
Cilic v Nishikori

Jankovic v Aggy Radwanska
Makarova v Williams
Stephens v Ivanovic

http://www.usopen.org/en_US/scores/schedule/index.html?promo=subnav

Yes serving sppeds vary from time to time as players change up/down their speeds. However, that doesn't explain a marked and consistent drop off in speed as happened steadily from the end of the second set onwards. And where exactly did he give up the ghost as....if I am not mistaken he won the match. The BBC site quotes Murray as saying he was 'struggling a bit physically' so it was an issue. As I said his injury that saw him pull out of the last two tournaments quite probably hampered fitness training. That is certainly a good possibility and that has come back to bite him in these stiflingly hot conditions that we had today. As for your point about shortening points then yes I'd agree and would agree he lost focus (perhaps because the fatigue was on his mind) and he should have wrapped it up in three. However, he won in four and a couple of years ago I am pretty sure he would have imploded and lost the match. That is my take on it.

Are we seeing the flowering of new star possibly?

This is a demolition derby. Raonic 2 sets up and cruising.

He didn't pull out of Cinncy now did he?

The BBC isn't the most reliable source of cutting edge reporting.

Like I said Murray was solid and focused in those first 2 sets. The latter of the 3rd and 4th for me left a bad taste in the mouth. If Lopez was a tad mentally stronger, Murray would've been dispatched in 5. So yes credit to Murray to be able to find away through, but let's be honest that performance is one he needs to put to the back of his mind if he is to stand a chance of winning.

Oh right so the BBC aren't directly quoting him now but putting words in his mouth? And yes he played perhaps with a niggle in Cincinatti and that started the problem - just guessing but it holds up.

In all my posts tonight where have I said anything like Murray is doing great. I have said a couple of times he needs to improve. Today's performance sums up his tournament - patchy. Poor against Bogomolov Jnr, very good against Dodig and patchy at times today laced with some magic. To be honest I never really felt US Open was his best chance of a slam win as his record here is nowhere near as good as in Australia or at Wimbledon. Still hopefully he can up his game for the bigger challenges that lie ahead.

Right after the match in Sky he himself said he was unsure as to why he tailed off like he did. So who shall I go by? The Murray who speaks to Sky or the Murray who speaks to the Beeb who even had Murray down as drawn with Djokovic at the US Open?

I haven't said anything about Andy requiring 'great' performances to progress.

If he was fatigued, the options he had were:

1) Play more aggressive at the first sign of fatigue.
2) Call a trainer even if it is for a leg massage to get the blood going and lactic acid moving.

Instead we got the grumpy no mover promoting negative vibes that if anything encouraged Lopez.

Raonic breaks in the 3rd. Que the fat lady.

I am not sure the US Open is Murray's "best" tournament (e.g. Wawrinka a few years back), but recently he has a habit of winning patchy or otherwise ... getting to semifinals & finals on grass and the hard-courts. I think in tournament play the aim is to try to hit top form towards the end of the tournament rather than at the beginning. The early part of the tournament should be all about building up the form without taking too much energy out of yourself.

Well he kept his hand close to his chest to Sky and wasn't really pressed on the issue so see no doubt to doubt BBC if they are directly quoting him.

lk, you know Murray has focus issues that wrangle his brain at times (not as bad now as used to be the case) and that coupled with fatigue caused that dip. He came through in the end but don't see why you feel the need to mention the grumpy bit as he was asmiling quite a bit today and there was no shouting/yelling etc normally associated with being grumpy. I just think Lopez fed off the poor movement/fatigue issues with Murray more than anything else.

As for calling the trainer perhaps he felt there was nothing he could do for it or perhaps didn't want to feel like he was disrupting the game as he does have a low record on calling for the trainer. I am not sure but time will tell what the issue was.

It was a total mental breakdown that could've been avoided with a better trained mind. Like I stated he is one of the fittest guys on tour and is constantly talking increased fitness and I am led to believe he is suffering 'fatigue' in a Slam which we all know the top players plan their seasons meticulously to peak at these events and with a disciplinarian like Lendl on board I am amazed he was 'fatigued' to an extent that he gave up on points. If he is a fighter, he didn't show it in those moments.

I'm just relieved he's through. Maybe he was cramping due to heat, maybe there was something else, I don't know as I didn't see the match, I only listened to it. Perhaps Murray is just not good in the heat, which is remarkable considering his runs in Australia, his hard court tournament success and the general fact he trains in Miami.

23 year old Martin Kližan, the second round "destroyer" of Tsonga, seems to be playing well. He has reached the fourth round without any trouble so far. Next up is Cilic. Kližan had a good junior career while his progression at senior level has been slow. The way Kližan has been playing he should make it difficult for Cilic, although perhaps another upset might be just beyond him.

Prediction: Berdych to beat Querrey 7-6 6-7 6-7 7-6 7-6 in a match lasting about 2 and a half hours.

Raonic wins. I think Murray'll have him provided he plays better than he did today.

That is an interesting contrast in styles with the missile squaring off against Murray's returning and retrieving skills, as well as his variety.

Murray himself says he was "struggling physically" but not sure what the problem was. Last time I saw him play like that (physically at least) was when he had a virus at the AO in 09. Just hope it's not that. When you're struggling physically it makes no sense to chase down balls on your opponent's serve at 0-40 down (esp. a huge serve like Lopez) so I totally understand that.

Credit to Lopez, the best I've seen him play, on a par with when he lost to Federer in three TB sets at Monte Carlo (I think? last year?). Credit to Murray for pulling it together in the fourth set TB, at 5-4 he hit a fabulous BH pass and then made a great deep return off a Lopez first serve to clinch the match. He's been really good in TBs this year again (I think 13-5 now), which is so important.

LK's so wide of the mark I'm not even going to go there, but I really didn't see any theatrics out there at all. There was no back clutching, no outbursts, he was just struggling and did his best to come through.

Having seen that, the organisers will probably give him a nice night match on Ashe next up, they'll want their Murray-Federer semi

Pretty much as I saw it Mad for Chelsea.

when is Laura next playing?

Adam D wrote:when is Laura next playing?

3rd on Armstrong today. Probably about 9-11 tonight.

Well done to 2 of our doubles pairs yesterday. Fleming + Hutchins and Delgado + Skupski both won their matches.

Almost Kimmy played her last match ever in the mixed with one of the Bryan brothers.

Mad for Chelsea wrote:Murray himself says he was "struggling physically" but not sure what the problem was. Last time I saw him play like that (physically at least) was when he had a virus at the AO in 09. Just hope it's not that. When you're struggling physically it makes no sense to chase down balls on your opponent's serve at 0-40 down (esp. a huge serve like Lopez) so I totally understand that.

Credit to Lopez, the best I've seen him play, on a par with when he lost to Federer in three TB sets at Monte Carlo (I think? last year?). Credit to Murray for pulling it together in the fourth set TB, at 5-4 he hit a fabulous BH pass and then made a great deep return off a Lopez first serve to clinch the match. He's been really good in TBs this year again (I think 13-5 now), which is so important.

LK's so wide of the mark I'm not even going to go there, but I really didn't see any theatrics out there at all. There was no back clutching, no outbursts, he was just struggling and did his best to come through.

Having seen that, the organisers will probably give him a nice night match on Ashe next up, they'll want their Murray-Federer semi

Sorry MFC the first paragraph is beyond actual reality. He didn't chase anything down, so I wouldn't read much into your comments if I am frank. This is not a virus the boy has got. Not relevant to the point you actually make. Fatigue like a virus? Hmmmmm ok.

No theatrics? So he wasn't clutching his leg or his side like both the commentators identified? Ok so what match were you watching that they wasn't?

I think the points you made were 20 minutes of what actually happened throughout the match.

No lk there weren't any theatrics. If you call holding one's side for an instant (which is always magnified by slow-mos and overly eager commentators) then sorry but every player then indulges in theatrics. No I don't think it is a virus he has but it can't be dismissed unless you have an insider with intimate knowledge of Murray lk? And yes viruses of course cause fatigue. I have had them before and feel knackered without being asked to play almost four hours of physical tennis in baking hot conditions.

CaledonianCraig wrote:No lk there weren't any theatrics. If you call holding one's side for an instant (which is always magnified by slow-mos and overly eager commentators) then sorry but every player then indulges in theatrics. No I don't think it is a virus he has but it can't be dismissed unless you have an insider with intimate knowledge of Murray lk? And yes viruses of course cause fatigue. I have had them before and feel knackered without being asked to play almost four hours of physical tennis in baking hot conditions.

CC,

Do you have inside information that he has a virus then? I can't recall many players actually playing on with a virus CC.

Leif Shiras who was court side after the 3rd set commentated that temperatures actually dropped before the first set. The conditions started hot but tailed off as mentioned by Shiras.

I can't believe I am actually pointing out comments made by commentators that everyone seems to overlook quite conveniently.

No read my post I simply said him having a virus cannot be proved although you definitively said He HAS NOT got a virus whereas I said that I don't think he has but it cannot be ruled out which is correct is it not?

If we want to indulge in what the commentators say then lets go the full hog and none of them doubted that Murray had some sort of a physical issue out there.

My take is that Murray underestimated Lopez and wasn't erxpecting his level of play to last for so long, i.e. Murray's plan of gently workout in the sun, went out of the window

Andy's biggest weakness, is that he's often awful at changing a plan - hence he never woke up to the fact that Lopez was constantly dangerous and then we get the forlorn 'little boy lost' looks from Murray

We must also remember, that Lopez is second in some winning list (can't remember what) i.e. is a genuinely good player grossly underestimated by the daft Scot

Raonic is a different prospect, where Murray will be motivated from point one for the following reasons;-

1) He lost to him last time
2) He wants to put the youngsters 'in their place'
3) The Canadian plays into a focused Murray's hands. Murray get's the serve back and you wonder what Raonic will do

Should be interesting

Right CC so you don't think he has a virus, but it can't be ruled out? So shall I throw in an injury too, even though I don't think he has one, but it can't be ruled out?

Like I stated CC I don't think Murray had an injury, but for him to to give up on points willy nilly was not to my liking. Like I stated if he played aggressive once he felt the fatigue, he could've at least forced a 3rd set TB which again was highlighted by Macglagan and Castle, but hey what do they know

Raonic is a different prospect, where Murray will be motivated from point one for the following reasons;-

1) He lost to him last time
2) He wants to put the youngsters 'in their place'
3) The Canadian plays into a focused Murray's hands. Murray get's the serve back and you wonder what Raonic will do

Should be interesting

It should be interesting.

Raonic seems to blow hot and cold. He absolutely struggled in his first round match and then blew Blake off the court last night.

I am thinking Andy may well drop the speed off his serve like he does against Isner not to give the big hitters a look in on his second serve. Raonic has been hitting his BH very well this week.

BO5 format so much different to a BO3.

You have to go with Murray. I think his defence will prove too much for Raonic. Also let's hope he is on Ashe as it seems to be the slowest playing court thus far.

I wonder if it'll be the night match and I assume tomorrow? If so, it's a problem for me - as I've got a two day meeting and can't risk staying up to watch the match as I'd be unprepared for Tuesday

Like Andy I'm nothing if not professional

legendkillarV2 wrote:Right CC so you don't think he has a virus, but it can't be ruled out? So shall I throw in an injury too, even though I don't think he has one, but it can't be ruled out?

Like I stated CC I don't think Murray had an injury, but for him to to give up on points willy nilly was not to my liking. Like I stated if he played aggressive once he felt the fatigue, he could've at least forced a 3rd set TB which again was highlighted by Macglagan and Castle, but hey what do they know

lk, I did say yesterday that Murray should have had it won in three so he has had my criticism you know. When fatigue hits you need energy to play aggressive shots and the energy (perhaps) just wasn't there. Virus, injury or lack of focus (that's what I'd call it) and Lopez pl;aying perhaps the best he has every played combined to make this a tight match but certainly not 'tanking by Murray' as you suggested yesterday. Heck even Murray's worst fan hawkeye didn't come up with that one (yet) and we know how she feels about him.

banbrotam wrote:My take is that Murray underestimated Lopez and wasn't erxpecting his level of play to last for so long, i.e. Murray's plan of gently workout in the sun, went out of the window

Andy's biggest weakness, is that he's often awful at changing a plan - hence he never woke up to the fact that Lopez was constantly dangerous and then we get the forlorn 'little boy lost' looks from Murray

We must also remember, that Lopez is second in some winning list (can't remember what) i.e. is a genuinely good player grossly underestimated by the daft Scot

Raonic is a different prospect, where Murray will be motivated from point one for the following reasons;-

1) He lost to him last time
2) He wants to put the youngsters 'in their place'
3) The Canadian plays into a focused Murray's hands. Murray get's the serve back and you wonder what Raonic will do

Should be interesting

I really like that analysis so I agree 100% and I'll go with Murray wanting to beat Raonic because of all 3 points you made at the end. Hope it's the first night match on Ashe though to neutralise the serve as I think the Canadian served 29 or 39 aces v Blake.

CaledonianCraig wrote:

legendkillarV2 wrote:Right CC so you don't think he has a virus, but it can't be ruled out? So shall I throw in an injury too, even though I don't think he has one, but it can't be ruled out?

Like I stated CC I don't think Murray had an injury, but for him to to give up on points willy nilly was not to my liking. Like I stated if he played aggressive once he felt the fatigue, he could've at least forced a 3rd set TB which again was highlighted by Macglagan and Castle, but hey what do they know

lk, I did say yesterday that Murray should have had it won in three so he has had my criticism you know. When fatigue hits you need energy to play aggressive shots and the energy (perhaps) just wasn't there. Virus, injury or lack of focus (that's what I'd call it) and Lopez pl;aying perhaps the best he has every played combined to make this a tight match but certainly not 'tanking by Murray' as you suggested yesterday. Heck even Murray's worst fan hawkeye didn't come up with that one (yet) and we know how she feels about him.

What would you call it CC? He made absolutely no attempt to chase any points down the back end of the 3rd set majority of the 4th. There was the energy to play aggressive shots because on his first service game in the 4th when he was cracking the ball! That's what I was annoyed with. When he started to pull up in the 3rd I thought 'injury' that was my initial thought. 7 games passed, no sign of calling a trainer and then he was going for his shots in the 4th. That is tanking in my book. Showing signs he can play aggressive and then 'choosing' not to go with that play possibly because of the error rate that accompanies the strategy. I would've sooner he gone aggressively and gone for his shots instead of the poor movement he exhibited. Yes he pulled through, but the mental attitude he showed in the latter stages of the 3rd set into the 4th was appalling. Even when he saved that break point at 5-5. When played a superb point, he didn't even give a fist pump or a come on. Even with such a brilliant point his body language was still so negative that Lopez himself must've still felt in the game when a point like that mentally should've crushed him some what.

Yes I may seem ultra critical, but for the first set he put in absolute mental graft as Lopez offered him nothing on his serve. What happened in that 3rd was that when the going got tough, he got running. 4-2 up in the third. He should be trying to close the match out, not chuck it. I am not much of an if's and but's man, but if Lopez had taken 4th, Murray would've sunk without a trace. Look at his matches in the FO 2011. I had nothing but praise because he played the situation superbly. Was injured and went on the attack. When faced with fatigue, he couldn't push himself through that barrier. Castle made the great point in saying it wasn't a rope a dope he was trying but making a crisis out of what was a positive position in the match. I didn't buy into Greg's comments that Raonic in that position would've been more clinical because he hasn't shown the consisentcy at a Slam to warrant such a position. The only time Murray showed some 'come on' was the passing shot at 5-4 in the 4th TB.

We have all seen Murray struggles in the past, even at US Open in 2008 in consecutive matches against Llodra and Melzer and then go on to bash Wawrinka in the next match in straights, but the attitude he showed in that Lopez match was all so reminiscent of that in his Wawrinka encounter of 2 years ago. He should not be having such poor dips in matches to the extent of shutting down mentally and physically. Top guys play through it and even if they make errors at least try and play themselves back into the match. For me the H2H with Lopez was a big mental factor for Lopez. Anyone else, maybe just maybe the outcome would've been different.

legendkillarV2 wrote:
Yes I may seem ultra critical

Never

legendkillarV2 wrote:What happened in that 3rd was that when the going got tough, he got running. 4-2 up in the third. He should be trying to close the match out, not chuck it.

LK that's OTT!! I don't think Andy would ever try and "chuck" a match. Can't you see that Lopez just kept up a good level of play? Murray was daft enough to think he's done enough at 4-2 and even went 30-0 up. This shows someone not concentrating because they arrogantly think they don't need to, i.e. a mental error, but not someone trying to chuck a match. Calm down our passionate Tennis friend!!

legendkillarV2 wrote:I am not much of an if's and but's man, but if Lopez had taken 4th, Murray would've sunk without a trace

And if he'd challenged a dodgy line call in the 2008 final he might have broken Roger's serve and gone on to do what Del Potro did the following year. You don't do "if's and but's" - so why bother. Andy would have won, simply because he can produce enough of the stuff that only the Top 4 can do, enough of the time

legendkillarV2 wrote:We have all seen Murray struggles in the past, even at US Open in 2008 in consecutive matches against Llodra and Melzer and then go on to bash Wawrinka in the next match in straights, but the attitude he showed in that Lopez match was all so reminiscent of that in his Wawrinka encounter of 2 years ago. He should not be having such poor dips in matches to the extent of shutting down mentally and physically. Top guys play through it and even if they make errors at least try and play themselves back into the match. For me the H2H with Lopez was a big mental factor for Lopez. Anyone else, maybe just maybe the outcome would've been different.

What like Fed at Wimbledon, when he was taken to 5 sets by Benneteau Come on LK2, give Andy a break!! Yes it was very reminiscent of the Wawrinka match, something I thought of, as well, during the match. Both the Swiss and Lopez are genuinely skilled Tennis players who can play some of the best varied Tennis in the world, on their day. Something, that has always caused Andy far more mental problems than the big hitter / no movement players

Yes it was very reminiscent. The difference here was that he won - which shows that he's mentally tougher than we think

We're just incredibly hard on him (I'm just as bad as I actually said several times "what the sweet fanny adams was that"!!!!) - at the height of his powers a certain Novak Djokovich was struggling to beat Tomic at Wimbledon 2011. Both he and Fed (this year) were taken to 5 sets by players (we could argue) that are not as good as Lopez

It happens, sometimes

That about says it all banbro. Murray wins in four sets against a player ranked just aoutside top twenty in the world and gets lambasted.

LK that's OTT!! I don't think Andy would ever try and "chuck" a match. Can't you see that Lopez just kept up a good level of play? Murray was daft enough to think he's done enough at 4-2 and even went 30-0 up. This shows someone not concentrating because they arrogantly think they don't need to, i.e. a mental error, but not someone trying to chuck a match. Calm down our passionate Tennis friend!!

I don't think it was Andy thinking too far ahead in the match, but just dropping off in those all important moments. He had done the hard work in those 2 previous sets. I even said during the match I expected Andy to put the foot down because of the momentum from the first set.

And if he'd challenged a dodgy line call in the 2008 final he might have broken Roger's serve and gone on to do what Del Potro did the following year. You don't do "if's and but's" - so why bother. Andy would have won, simply because he can produce enough of the stuff that only the Top 4 can do, enough of the time

See I didn't see that Andy would've won that match being pegged back. Yes he has only lost 5 matches when taking the first set, but he was shaking his head like everything had gone.

What like Fed at Wimbledon, when he was taken to 5 sets by Benneteau Come on LK2, give Andy a break!! Yes it was very reminiscent of the Wawrinka match, something I thought of, as well, during the match. Both the Swiss and Lopez are genuinely skilled Tennis players who can play some of the best varied Tennis in the world, on their day. Something, that has always caused Andy far more mental problems than the big hitter / no movement players

Yes it was very reminiscent. The difference here was that he won - which shows that he's mentally tougher than we think

We're just incredibly hard on him (I'm just as bad as I actually said several times "what the sweet fanny adams was that"!!!!) - at the height of his powers a certain Novak Djokovich was struggling to beat Tomic at Wimbledon 2011. Both he and Fed (this year) were taken to 5 sets by players (we could argue) that are not as good as Lopez

It happens, sometimes

I actually think the Federer/Benneteau match is a rather poor comparison. Did Federer's head and body go or was it just his level?

A much better comparison is Djokovic as recent as the FO. He went to pot against Tsonga and Seppi and if it wasn't for them blinking, I doubt he would've progressed. Like I said the H2H was a crucial factor. Djokovic was doing what Murray did. Shaking his head, looking to his box, self berrating.

If you go by a shotmaking perspective, Andy just clammed up. Back end of that 3rd set he just didn't want to know. Beginning of that 4th set he went aggressive and I was loving that and then he faded out again and I was left just wondering how he wanted to get through. Lopez played well I don't dispute that. If he was more focused in those crucial points in the TB's he could've well taken Murray out.

What I liked with Murray this year has been the focus in matches. Not the prolonged dips and scraps. If he get's broken, he breaks back. Yesterday I was like oh not the 2010 US Open Murray.

Though I wouldn't be surprised if he comes out tomorrow and rolls Raonic in straights being the extreme fluctuations he has shown before.

Do you think Murray heard about his record v Lopez too much? I know he does his best to avoid reading newspapers and watching the news and that but whenever the press were talking about the match all we heard was the 6-0 record. Perhaps Murray turned up and expected to win, but from what I've heard Lopez didn't play his usual game v Murray and maybe that surprised him.

not a great performance by any standard but he did enough in the end and got through. Not the first or the last time a top 5 player appears to have an off day at the worst time but the win is what matters.

I don't think so much it played on Murray's mind, but more Lopez's.

The Special Juan wrote:Do you think Murray heard about his record v Lopez too much? I know he does his best to avoid reading newspapers and watching the news and that but whenever the press were talking about the match all we heard was the 6-0 record. Perhaps Murray turned up and expected to win, but from what I've heard Lopez didn't play his usual game v Murray and maybe that surprised him.

That is very possible. Lopez certainly surprised me so I am sure he would have surprised Murray as well. This is a theory - he played solidly to get two sets and a break up and began to labour in the heat and wanted to conserve energy and just never gave the latter half of the third set due attention or effort and allowing his level to dip Lopez was there to pounce as he had been competitive all of the match. It is just another focus issue for me but he still found a way to win through which is all that matters at the end of the day. Although Murray had a 6-0 record on Lopez it doesn't mean he is a mug and his ranking shows that. I would say that a couple of years ago Andy may very well have allowed the match to slip away entirely and lost the plot totally mentally but he disn't. Bad day at the office though he didn't play too shabbily just patchy - time to move on.

As for Raonic match. Well a day or two ago I was ultra-confident of a Murray win but not I am not so confident. Still think his returning will bear fruits. After all Blake broke Raonic serve so it certainly isn't impregnable.

The Special Juan wrote:Do you think Murray heard about his record v Lopez too much? I know he does his best to avoid reading newspapers and watching the news and that but whenever the press were talking about the match all we heard was the 6-0 record. Perhaps Murray turned up and expected to win, but from what I've heard Lopez didn't play his usual game v Murray and maybe that surprised him.

You've got it in one. A bit like McEnroe, I think Andy turns up expecting to win these matches and the glowers at his rival when they have the audacity not to keel over after an hour!!

It's actually his only weakness. But it's a big one as too much mental and physical effort has already been wasted and you cannot see him beating both Fed and Nole if he got through

However, if now he's playing players who have beaten him (assumng Cilic wiould meet him in the QF) his respect for these goes up about 100 notches as does his attitude

And it's no good any of us moaning about him as it is this character that has given him 9 wins against the GOAT. It sure is difficult to watch at times, though