Rabo pro 12 first weekend, thoughts....

Well, here we are, the first weekend of the Rabo is over with a few surprise score lines, what are your thoughts after watching this weekends rugby, for me the two surprises for me were the Scarlets tooling Leinster and Munster wining away in Edinburgh, there were hard fought wins for Treviso, Ulster and the Blues and Zebre lived up to their billing with a hiding to nothing, for me although the Ospreys lost, they know they should have won even with 14 men they dominated the game everywhere except where it counts, on the scoreboard, and due to bad handling and bad discipline they could not get the win that perhaps they deserved, Leinster on the other hand should be more worried as the team that lost so significantly to the Scarlets will most likely be the team that they use in the league and they cannot take hidings like that all the time, something tells me they will improve ten fold next week, I am not going to judge the Dragons game until somebody else plays the Zebres as I do not know if it was just a one off poor display or is it a sign of things to come.

The Cardiff Blues have done well to come away from Connacht with a win in very bad conditions and I think they showed some steel that they have been lacking over the years, I did not see much of the Glasgow and Ulster game or the Munster and Edinburgh game to make to much comments but I hope the the Scottish can buck the trend and live up to the promise we all had for them in pre -season, Munster though seem to be going about their business as usual, a lot of people did not give them a chance of a playoff place this season, but I think by going to Edinburgh and winning they have set down a marker for the rest, and will probably be the team to beat in the earlier part of this season. The results are below:-

Connacht 9-13 Cardiff Blues
Edinburgh 18-23 Munster
Scarlets 45-20 Leinster
Newport-Gwent D'gons 37-6 Zebre
Treviso 12-6 Ospreys
Ulster 18-10 Glasgow

LordDowlais wrote:for me although the Ospreys lost, they know they should have won even with 14 men they dominated the game everywhere except where it counts, on the scoreboard, and due to bad handling and bad discipline they could not get the win that perhaps they deserved, Leinster on the other hand should be more worried as the team that lost so significantly to the Scarlets will most likely be the team that they use in the league and they cannot take hidings like that all the time, something tells me they will improve ten fold next week,

Ospreys in 'Winning Everywhere But On Scoreboard' Shocker! A little credit to Treviso perchance?

Given that you say Leinster 'will improve ten fold' why do you think they should be more worried than Ospreys?

I dont think any of the results are surprising given the teams put out. A lot of close games.

But I think Munster probably had the best result. It looks like Visser is continuing his last seasons form.

sugarNspikes wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:for me although the Ospreys lost, they know they should have won even with 14 men they dominated the game everywhere except where it counts, on the scoreboard, and due to bad handling and bad discipline they could not get the win that perhaps they deserved, Leinster on the other hand should be more worried as the team that lost so significantly to the Scarlets will most likely be the team that they use in the league and they cannot take hidings like that all the time, something tells me they will improve ten fold next week,

Ospreys in 'Winning Everywhere But On Scoreboard' Shocker! A little credit to Treviso perchance?

Given that you say Leinster 'will improve ten fold' why do you think they should be more worried than Ospreys?

Did you actually watch the game ?

I was glad to see all the games close till the end with the exception of Scarlets and Dragons. I was happy with the games for being the first ones back. Little bit sloppy but good exciting close games

LordDowlais wrote:

sugarNspikes wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:for me although the Ospreys lost, they know they should have won even with 14 men they dominated the game everywhere except where it counts, on the scoreboard, and due to bad handling and bad discipline they could not get the win that perhaps they deserved, Leinster on the other hand should be more worried as the team that lost so significantly to the Scarlets will most likely be the team that they use in the league and they cannot take hidings like that all the time, something tells me they will improve ten fold next week,

Ospreys in 'Winning Everywhere But On Scoreboard' Shocker! A little credit to Treviso perchance?

Given that you say Leinster 'will improve ten fold' why do you think they should be more worried than Ospreys?

Did you actually watch the game ?

Which one?

The Ospreys V Treviso one.

LordDowlais wrote:

sugarNspikes wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:for me although the Ospreys lost, they know they should have won even with 14 men they dominated the game everywhere except where it counts, on the scoreboard, and due to bad handling and bad discipline they could not get the win that perhaps they deserved, Leinster on the other hand should be more worried as the team that lost so significantly to the Scarlets will most likely be the team that they use in the league and they cannot take hidings like that all the time, something tells me they will improve ten fold next week,

Ospreys in 'Winning Everywhere But On Scoreboard' Shocker! A little credit to Treviso perchance?

Given that you say Leinster 'will improve ten fold' why do you think they should be more worried than Ospreys?

Did you actually watch the game ?

I watched the Ospreys on the TV, and to be fair when both sides had even numbers (40 mins of the game) the Ospreys looked in control, however their backs looked totally out of shape. I was predicting only a point between them before kick off, so it was not a shocker at all. Personally I think that Treviso turning the Opsreys over every four or five rucks, and the Ospreys in ability to do the same was the killer blow.

As for Leinster and the Scarlets. Yes it was a cracking result and the Scarlets took most of their opertunities, however that was a backline with 2 non-GS winners in it (and there were 2 international backs on the bench) so providing they got the ball they should have caused chaos. That said they did almost butcher a few chances.

The Welsh club home games did not realise the large crowds hoped with Leinster at home and the new boys at the Dragons. In the case of the Dragons the game was not on TV so they can't use the live on TV excuse for the crowds not turning up. The Scarlets had a reasonable crowd but it was the first game and against Leinster, 6.5k is not great, I have not seen the Dragons crowd numbers but it did not look great on the highlights. It will be interesting when the Ospreys and the Blues play next week,we may find out the true crowds for this season and if crowds this year are actually going up?

BBC says 4,540. Not great but you have to take into account that the Dragons have lost big name players, they finished low in the league last year and they were playing a crap Zebre team.

Scarlets played a 2nd string Leinster team.

Both pretty good reasons to stay away imo.

glamorganalun wrote:The Welsh club home games did not realise the large crowds hoped with Leinster at home and the new boys at the Dragons. In the case of the Dragons the game was not on TV so they can't use the live on TV excuse for the crowds not turning up. The Scarlets had a reasonable crowd but it was the first game and against Leinster, 6.5k is not great, I have not seen the Dragons crowd numbers but it did not look great on the highlights. It will be interesting when the Ospreys and the Blues play next week,we may find out the true crowds for this season and if crowds this year are actually going up?

Odd it was announced in the Stadium as 7404 or something like that (it was near 7.5k and had two fours, I remember that much). Also there were only a handful of Leinster fans, which I assume has something to do with the fact that a team minus the big names was coming. I would expect that come the game in the HEC the stadium will be full.

Presumably, such is the current fashion, the figures also include season tickets, regardless of whether or not the seat is filled.

The situation at Newport is understandable (I mean, who the hell are 'Zebre' anyway, and don't Treorchy still own the copyright on that name?)

But six thousand odd against the European champions? After a summer break when everyone is itching to see some rugby action? In heart & soul rugby country that represents everything from the Loughor to the Irish Sea?

Of course it's early in the season and crowds may yet flock to see the financially restrained, streamlined squaded regions, but could there be a case, at some point, to merge the semi-pro Premiership equivalents back into the pro teams? - to generate some crowd atmosphere if nothing else.

Having a Premiership team and a Rabo team playing in the same (relatively) small towns looks something of a luxury nowadays.

Have to say Treviso, we expected them to be decent but they may actually be good, top 6 or 8 maybe?

Zebre didn't expect much and got less, but it was their first competative game, away from home, hopefully after a few games they will improve a lot.

Would rather play them at start of year than the end, hopefully they can be a decent team at home.

Munster and Ulster, pleased they won, both missing a number of players, and are making a good start.

Edinburgh and Glasgow, Edinburgh will be the more disappointed, losing at home to a weakened Munster team, these are games they should be winning if they have realistic hopes of top 4. Visser looks dangerous still and hopefully can carry it on, in future games and 6 nations.
Glasgow, losing at Ravenhill isn't to be unexpected, maybe not getting a LBP, but not an unexpected start.

Leinster, lost, but they normally start the season on a damp squib and end on a bad, expect improvement.

Scarlets good start, need to keep it up.

Dragons top of table good win, but we don't know if Zebre were as bad as that or Dragons as good, will have to wait untill next game to judge them better.

Blues good win in tough Connacht, good start, Connacht will be disappointed as I'd say they have targeted winning all their home games this season.

Ospreys poor start like leinster again we;ll judge them after next week if they improve or not

Kingshu wrote:Have to say Treviso, we expected them to be decent but they may actually be good, top 6 or 8 maybe?

Zebre didn't expect much and got less, but it was their first competative game, away from home, hopefully after a few games they will improve a lot.

Would rather play them at start of year than the end, hopefully they can be a decent team at home.

Munster and Ulster, pleased they won, both missing a number of players, and are making a good start.

Edinburgh and Glasgow, Edinburgh will be the more disappointed, losing at home to a weakened Munster team, these are games they should be winning if they have realistic hopes of top 4. Visser looks dangerous still and hopefully can carry it on, in future games and 6 nations.
Glasgow, losing at Ravenhill isn't to be unexpected, maybe not getting a LBP, but not an unexpected start.

Leinster, lost, but they normally start the season on a damp squib and end on a bad, expect improvement.

Scarlets good start, need to keep it up.

Dragons top of table good win, but we don't know if Zebre were as bad as that or Dragons as good, will have to wait untill next game to judge them better.

Blues good win in tough Connacht, good start, Connacht will be disappointed as I'd say they have targeted winning all their home games this season.

Ospreys poor start like leinster again we;ll judge them after next week if they improve or not

There's one word that keeps cropping up in your post Kingshu and it is "improve/improvement", and I think that sums it up for most teams. The first weekend is always much of a muchness and it is how teams improve over the first month where I think we can decide how the league is going to pan out.

Good point Dowlais. It's actually way too early in the season to have any meaningful thoughts. Other than Sean Holley is rubbish on Scrum V, obviously.

Casartelli wrote:Good point Dowlais. It's actually way too early in the season to have any meaningful thoughts. Other than Sean Holley is rubbish on Scrum V, obviously.

Is it me, or does he just seem to be too nice.

gowales wrote:BBC says 4,540. Not great but you have to take into account that the Dragons have lost big name players, they finished low in the league last year and they were playing a crap Zebre team.

Scarlets played a 2nd string Leinster team.

Both pretty good reasons to stay away imo.

Comparing the Dragons attendance from last season to this, it's similar to the Aironi game (albeit up by 400 or so). It's not a big game is it. Probably get one or two more turn up for our next home game. But I'd settle for 4500 as our probable smallest gate (LV= games might get below that).

Risca Rev wrote:

gowales wrote:BBC says 4,540. Not great but you have to take into account that the Dragons have lost big name players, they finished low in the league last year and they were playing a crap Zebre team.

Scarlets played a 2nd string Leinster team.

Both pretty good reasons to stay away imo.

Comparing the Dragons attendance from last season to this, it's similar to the Aironi game (albeit up by 400 or so). It's not a big game is it. Probably get one or two more turn up for our next home game. But I'd settle for 4500 as our probable smallest gate (LV= games might get below that).

I certainly wouldn't pay to watch Airon/Zebre play. You guys should get better attendances as the season goes and more competitive teams show up.

Why has attendance for anything todo with the quality of the rugby.

Some of you seem more obsessed with the attendences figures than the rugby..!

Well a game against Zebre is always going to lead to poor attendances because people know that they won't have basic rugby skills and it will be a poor quality rugby game overall.

I was just responding to someone and then it turned into a discussion.

gowales wrote:

Comparing the Dragons attendance from last season to this, it's similar to the Aironi game (albeit up by 400 or so). It's not a big game is it. Probably get one or two more turn up for our next home game. But I'd settle for 4500 as our probable smallest gate (LV= games might get below that).

I certainly wouldn't pay to watch Airon/Zebre play. You guys should get better attendances as the season goes and more competitive teams show up.[/quote]

When I go to a Leinster match I go because I want to see Leinster play the opposition have a much smaller role in my desire to attend.I've been to watch strong and weak Leinster sides play every team in the Pro 12 and my attendance is more dependent on outside factors such as getting out of work.I don't understand this idea people have of only going to the big matches unless for whatever reasons you are limited to a certain number of matches you can attend each year and then of course you'd choose the more high profile ones.

asoreleftshoulder wrote:

gowales wrote:

Comparing the Dragons attendance from last season to this, it's similar to the Aironi game (albeit up by 400 or so). It's not a big game is it. Probably get one or two more turn up for our next home game. But I'd settle for 4500 as our probable smallest gate (LV= games might get below that).

I certainly wouldn't pay to watch Airon/Zebre play. You guys should get better attendances as the season goes and more competitive teams show up.

When I go to a Leinster match I go because I want to see Leinster play the opposition have a much smaller role in my desire to attend.I've been to watch strong and weak Leinster sides play every team in the Pro 12 and my attendance is more dependent on outside factors such as getting out of work.I don't understand this idea people have of only going to the big matches unless for whatever reasons you are limited to a certain number of matches you can attend each year and then of course you'd choose the more high profile ones.[/quote]

Because a lot of their players wouldn't be professionals in other countries. It's a joke and not worth spending my money on.

Also worth noting that Zebres didn't exactly bring millions of away fans over but this is the price we pay for a multinational league.

asoreleftshoulder - I agree with you totally. I enjoy watching live rugby, and the Scarlets are my side. I will turn up to watch them play providing I am physically able (and my wife lets me). I does not matter who we are playing against.

I would suggest that those who moan about low attendances are those who are not actually attending games themselves. And the fact that attendances go up when people play 'big' teams is pretty pathetic as it shows how much 'glory supporting' there is going on. If someone is the sort of fan that only turns up for the big games, i would possibly question whether they support their team or see it as a way to see better teams (that their own) playing.

Rabo pro 12 first weekend, thoughts....

Where were all the fans?

I tend to ignore the results from the first 3-4 weeks as it takes that long for teams to get up to speed again.

maestegmafia wrote:Why has attendance for anything todo with the quality of the rugby.

Some of you seem more obsessed with the attendences figures than the rugby..!

Simple, it could be make or break for the regions!

If you can't get a decent crowd for the first game of the season, the game is not live on TV and a new team, it is not looking good!

Ulster had over 10000 against Aironi last year.

They went to watch Ulster pure and simple the opposition didn't matter

Well I go to every Ulster home game and a few away games and let me tell you if you want to go glory hunt somewhere Ravenhill probably isn't the first choice, often it's cold and wet (on the good nights anyway ) and occasionally you turn up to a game such as Treviso last year lol I doubt many Ulster fans could be considered glory hunters lol

glamorganalun wrote:

maestegmafia wrote:Why has attendance for anything todo with the quality of the rugby.

Some of you seem more obsessed with the attendences figures than the rugby..!

Simple, it could be make or break for the regions!

If you can't get a decent crowd for the first game of the season, the game is not live on TV and a new team, it is not looking good!

Maybe in your crackpot school of economics Alun.

Rabo average attendance 5,519
Jeff attendance (excluding London double header) 6768.5
stats courtesy http://www.espnscrum.com/

Portnoy wrote:Rabo average attendance 5,519
Jeff attendance (excluding London double header) 6768.5
stats courtesy http://www.espnscrum.com/

That is not as different as many people would have you believe.

Considering Tigers get around 17000 as an average gate then some clubs must be struggling more than the regions in Wales.

glamorganalun wrote:

maestegmafia wrote:Why has attendance for anything todo with the quality of the rugby.

Some of you seem more obsessed with the attendences figures than the rugby..!

Simple, it could be make or break for the regions!

If you can't get a decent crowd for the first game of the season, the game is not live on TV and a new team, it is not looking good!

Considering the economic impact this recession has had on Wales we are lucky that the regions can find any fans.

gowales wrote:Well a game against Zebre is always going to lead to poor attendances because people know that they won't have basic rugby skills and it will be a poor quality rugby game overall.

I was just responding to someone and then it turned into a discussion.

People pay to go see the Welsh Prem, and lets be fair as bad as Zebre maybe are (i'll judge them after a couple of home games), they would be capable of walking the Welsh Prem.

Considering the economic impact this recession has had on Wales we are lucky that the regions can find any fans.

Tosh.

Expect 16K Leinster fans to see their team play the dragons on Saturday.

Only 'cause the Dragons are top of the table.

Kingshu wrote:

gowales wrote:Well a game against Zebre is always going to lead to poor attendances because people know that they won't have basic rugby skills and it will be a poor quality rugby game overall.

I was just responding to someone and then it turned into a discussion.

People pay to go see the Welsh Prem, and lets be fair as bad as Zebre maybe are (i'll judge them after a couple of home games), they would be capable of walking the Welsh Prem.

Zebre would win it at a canter.

Give Zebre time. They have only had one competitive game...

The problem with Welsh rugby is that their fans are fair weather, daffodil wearing, kicker boo-ing non rugby people, who would rather spend a tenner on 3 pints of "Brains" rather than go and support their local team.

And this rubbish about not seeing the 1st team play all the time is testament to this. I am more excited about seeing the young talent come through than seeing BOD week in week out.

but then again, that what real FANS do.

BoyneRFC wrote:The problem with Welsh rugby is that their fans are fair weather, daffodil wearing, kicker boo-ing non rugby people, who would rather spend a tenner on 3 pints of "Brains" rather than go and support their local team.

Every single one of us, Boyne?

No- I mean the issue with welsh rugby in general.

The real welsh fans are probably the most passionate, knowledgeable in the world.

There are just way too many hangers on....

* Sorry I should have said, "some of their fans"...

The real fans are the ones with season tickets, who go to the odd game... not the 60K who turn up in Cardiff in January and February for Internationals dressed up like the cast of Jackob and the Tecnicolour Dreamcoat puked all over them....

BoyneRFC wrote:* Sorry I should have said, "some of their fans"...

The real fans are the ones with season tickets, who go to the odd game... not the 60K who turn up in Cardiff in January and February for Internationals dressed up like the cast of Jackob and the Tecnicolour Dreamcoat puked all over them....

Whilst I agree with yo to some extent, I certainly do not agree with your stereo typical view of us Boyne, and just so that everybody else realises on here, the hangers on dressed like puke are the ones filling the WRU coffers and without them Welsh rugby would not have the funding it gets today.

I think the problem is these boards are filled with people like Boyne who class themselves as real fans, and therefore we don't get a fully rounded view.

But what the regions need is the floating fan, these may come to become 'real' fans (hate that term) in time.

The floating fan may only attend 2-3 games a year, and the ones they will target are the biggest games. There is nothing wrong with this, and its only natural.
A lot of people don't want season tickets as they know they won't make every game, they also (in Ireland) follow a number of sports, Football, Gaelic, Hurling, horse racing, dgs etc etc and don't want to devote all their time to just one. These people are sports fans, not just rugby fans, and most people who attend games fall into this group (the 'real' fans can look down on them if they want, but thats just snobery).

Sports fans will naturtally target the biggest games, ie if only going to Ravenhill once this year wouldn't you rather see Ulster V Saints in Hcup than Ulster V Zebre in pro 12? They aren't glory hunters as if there isn't a bigger game in another sport on or coming up they will go to the Ulster Zebre game, but by following a number of times they have to target what they watch in each.

What the regions and provinces need to do is promote the game to the floating fans, 15 floating fans attend the same number of games as one season ticket holder (more or less) and are easier to attract.

It's easiest to promote the big games and Derbies, but once this is done they still need to promote the other games, so someone who planed maybe 2-3 games goes to 4-5, and the next year more. To do this they have to promote the Pro12 to being better than the football game they were going to watch, or the race meeting in FFos las etc So that they go less to the other sports they follow and more to the Rugby.

Against the Prem this should be easy enough as the prem is so expensive yo can only really go to a couple of games a season, if you attract floating fans to the double headers, the Derbies and H-cup games, and they enjoy it, it should make it easier to attract them to the smaller games.

Dowlais- no sterotypes. I am just calling it as I see it. I also corrected my sloppy scripture by saying not all Welsh fans, so there is no sterotype there pal...

Kingshu, by real fans I mentioned as above, someone with a season ticket or goes "to the odd game".. call them what you like, but basically I mean bums on seats.

To suggest it is because of the crisis is wrong. Welsh crowds were not much better years ago either.

I know what you mean Boyne but I class them as sports fans and hardcore fans.

The hardcore follow rugby and nothing else, have a season ticket etc, (you get them in all sports ie football fans what won't even look at rugby and vice versa)

The sports fans as above, follow a range of sports attend a number of games of each.

There are also the glory hunters that only turn up to watch a winning team, and stop wherever there is a downturn in results or turn on players.

I'd class myself as a sports fan but attend mostly Rugby games, Ulster and Ballymena a good number of times each year.

What I do hate is when other fans try to make out your not a fan, ie I have never owned a rugby or football top in my life, but some people will try to make it out you don't support a club because you've never bought a top, I have to conter it by saying the auld fella has supported the said team for over 65 years and never bough a top either, are you saying he isn't a fan, and his 65 years of support are less meaningfull than your few years because you have bought a couple of tops?

No no, I get what you are saying, but in the context of the discussion, what Wales need then are more fans, be them sports, hardcore, top buying, whatever. We need to see more people at rugby matches in Wales (Rabo)....

They can come in their b-day suits carrying a tennis racket and a bowling ball if they want, as long as they make the effort to show up to their home games....

I'd say the double header will help attract the sports fans, who will have it in there calendar, and may come to more rugby games after.

Also I believe there are more sports fans in Ireland than in Wales, numbers of people that will go and see a game most weeks, where as Wales is more split into Rugby fans and football fans that will follow one and not the other, and if it they do watch the other it's only the international games.

Someone once said that the Welsh are more like the loving wives, who care deeply about one sport and nothing else, while over the water we are just slappers, ready to go with any sport if it tickles our fancy.

... event junkies I call them...

BoyneRFC wrote:No- I mean the issue with welsh rugby in general.

The real welsh fans are probably the most passionate, knowledgeable in the world.

There are just way too many hangers on....

Someone from Leinster complaining that someone else has 'too many hangers on' ??

Are you like, taking the pistachio, roish ?

Lunster Lunster Lunster