Rabo pro 12 first weekend, thoughts....

First topic message reminder :

Well, here we are, the first weekend of the Rabo is over with a few surprise score lines, what are your thoughts after watching this weekends rugby, for me the two surprises for me were the Scarlets tooling Leinster and Munster wining away in Edinburgh, there were hard fought wins for Treviso, Ulster and the Blues and Zebre lived up to their billing with a hiding to nothing, for me although the Ospreys lost, they know they should have won even with 14 men they dominated the game everywhere except where it counts, on the scoreboard, and due to bad handling and bad discipline they could not get the win that perhaps they deserved, Leinster on the other hand should be more worried as the team that lost so significantly to the Scarlets will most likely be the team that they use in the league and they cannot take hidings like that all the time, something tells me they will improve ten fold next week, I am not going to judge the Dragons game until somebody else plays the Zebres as I do not know if it was just a one off poor display or is it a sign of things to come.

The Cardiff Blues have done well to come away from Connacht with a win in very bad conditions and I think they showed some steel that they have been lacking over the years, I did not see much of the Glasgow and Ulster game or the Munster and Edinburgh game to make to much comments but I hope the the Scottish can buck the trend and live up to the promise we all had for them in pre -season, Munster though seem to be going about their business as usual, a lot of people did not give them a chance of a playoff place this season, but I think by going to Edinburgh and winning they have set down a marker for the rest, and will probably be the team to beat in the earlier part of this season. The results are below:-

Connacht 9-13 Cardiff Blues
Edinburgh 18-23 Munster
Scarlets 45-20 Leinster
Newport-Gwent D'gons 37-6 Zebre
Treviso 12-6 Ospreys
Ulster 18-10 Glasgow

Casartelli wrote:Clubs won't be able to count the free tickets too, will they?

With one free friend + 4 free kids with every membership, the Ospreys average attendance for home games this season will be around 32,000.

Cas - really mate you need to let that one drop. When applying for the season ticket they need to apply for the ones they want 'free' (or half price if you were a good mate), so they would know. These are professional businesses and not a bunch of girl guides organising a firework display, they know what htey need to do.

ScarletSpiderman wrote:Kingshu - most people on these boards that comments about attendances are not regular regional attenders (if at all). I know the scarlets have a season ticket where you need to hand in a voucher per match, and as some dragons fans have said they have barcodes on their tickets.

I know that the attendances are actually announced at the match 99% of the time, so maybe it is just that the welsh journos tend to jot it down as it is of interest to us (sadly).

Also, I think the whole thing about counting people who were not there (season tickets), started a when some regions were trying to counter the lack-of fans arguements by publishing tickets-sold as opposed to attendance. The there were the arguements about all the free tickets being given away etc etc.

Just a visual scan shows that Tigers reported attendance figures are frequently different from the actual attendance. Frankly I blame the lack of turnstile counters (or electronic equivalent) and the bean-counters' concern for HMRC for the disparity. No club/side has an interest in facts - just marketing and tax returns.

ScarletSpiderman wrote:

Casartelli wrote:Clubs won't be able to count the free tickets too, will they?

With one free friend + 4 free kids with every membership, the Ospreys average attendance for home games this season will be around 32,000.

Cas - really mate you need to let that one drop. When applying for the season ticket they need to apply for the ones they want 'free' (or half price if you were a good mate), so they would know. These are professional businesses and not a bunch of girl guides organising a firework display, they know what htey need to do.

Okay okay. But can I continue my Sean Holley campaign? Because that's in the public interest.

By the way, I've been to a number of Girl Guides Fireworks Displays and, say what you like about them, they always turn a profit and there's always a decent crowd there.

I don't care how good their displays are. Until they set one up in my back yard instead of two minutes down the road where I go to work every day then I'll be going to no more firework displays of theirs. And what is that name all about? Hardly inclusive of non girls is it?

LordDowlais wrote:

munkian wrote:The average person in Wales cannot aford to spend nearly £200 on a weekend session.

Plus the Irish Provinces are ACTUAL clubs with a heritage and support base.

Our 'regions' are 10 years old.

France didn't win anything in the 5/6 Nations for absolutely ages and look at them now.

For the most in and around the valleys £200 is the weekly wage, they need that money to survive not to go and watch rugby, that is what priorities are.

Cry me a river...

Stop using a less than average wage to support your theory that low attendances has anything to do with the crisis.

I wonder how much they earn in South Africa?

Stone Motif wrote:I don't care how good their displays are. Until they set one up in my back yard instead of two minutes down the road where I go to work every day then I'll be going to no more firework displays of theirs. And what is that name all about? Hardly inclusive of non girls is it?

If anyone deserves a firework display, it's the Scouts. They're the heartland of pyrotechnics.

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:

Stone Motif wrote:I don't care how good their displays are. Until they set one up in my back yard instead of two minutes down the road where I go to work every day then I'll be going to no more firework displays of theirs. And what is that name all about? Hardly inclusive of non girls is it?

If anyone deserves a firework display, it's the Scouts. They're the heartland of pyrotechnics.

The Scouts had their chance, but htey failed to get anyone to turn up, and couldn't afford to buy the fireworks either.

ScarletSpiderman wrote:

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:

Stone Motif wrote:I don't care how good their displays are. Until they set one up in my back yard instead of two minutes down the road where I go to work every day then I'll be going to no more firework displays of theirs. And what is that name all about? Hardly inclusive of non girls is it?

If anyone deserves a firework display, it's the Scouts. They're the heartland of pyrotechnics.

The Scouts had their chance, but htey failed to get anyone to turn up, and couldn't afford to buy the fireworks either.

Do they just get two sticks to set of all the fire works with? I'd say it takes a while to get going.

Let's not mention the fishermen's firework display, where they tried to light a damp squid...

Kingshu wrote:

ScarletSpiderman wrote:

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:

Stone Motif wrote:I don't care how good their displays are. Until they set one up in my back yard instead of two minutes down the road where I go to work every day then I'll be going to no more firework displays of theirs. And what is that name all about? Hardly inclusive of non girls is it?

If anyone deserves a firework display, it's the Scouts. They're the heartland of pyrotechnics.

The Scouts had their chance, but htey failed to get anyone to turn up, and couldn't afford to buy the fireworks either.

Do they just get two sticks to set of all the fire works with? I'd say it takes a while to get going.

I guess a successful firework display takes time, and maybe they should have been given another year to see if their Guy Forks night would be better attended the second year.

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:Let's not mention the fishermen's firework display, where they tried to light a damp squid...

ScarletSpiderman wrote:

Kingshu wrote:

ScarletSpiderman wrote:

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:

Stone Motif wrote:I don't care how good their displays are. Until they set one up in my back yard instead of two minutes down the road where I go to work every day then I'll be going to no more firework displays of theirs. And what is that name all about? Hardly inclusive of non girls is it?

If anyone deserves a firework display, it's the Scouts. They're the heartland of pyrotechnics.

The Scouts had their chance, but htey failed to get anyone to turn up, and couldn't afford to buy the fireworks either.

Do they just get two sticks to set of all the fire works with? I'd say it takes a while to get going.

I guess a successful firework display takes time, and maybe they should have been given another year to see if their Guy Forks night would be better attended the second year.

They show the fire work displays on TV anyway, so a lot of people would rather sit in and watch it for free than pay to get wet and cold.

If they held them in different parks instead of having them in the same one every time, then they could really call them firework displays.

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:If they held them in different parks instead of having them in the same one every time, then they could really call them firework displays.

Guy Forks

BoyneRFC wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:

munkian wrote:The average person in Wales cannot aford to spend nearly £200 on a weekend session.

Plus the Irish Provinces are ACTUAL clubs with a heritage and support base.

Our 'regions' are 10 years old.

France didn't win anything in the 5/6 Nations for absolutely ages and look at them now.

For the most in and around the valleys £200 is the weekly wage, they need that money to survive not to go and watch rugby, that is what priorities are.

Cry me a river...

Boyne, you are a class act, really, you are.

Dont take it out of context.

Not everyone "from the valleys" goes to rugby matches and not everyone from Wales is a poor mouth "from the valleys" on 200 quid a week.

Your attempt to divert from the fact that Welsh club rugby is poorly supported by ushering the excuse that people in the valleys are on 200 quid a week is confusing at best and rather lazy at worst.

There are plenty around Neath, Swansea and Cardiff who can afford a tenner to go and support their local rugby team (region, dont try to twist it, you know what I mean), but they chose not to because they cant be bothered.

THAT is why your teams will never win the HEC. No support. Not cause "people in the valleys" "survive" on 200 a week. Pathetic excuses.

Answer my other point about South Africa? Are they much richer that the Welsh? Nonesense.

The poorest part of France in the South West... do you think they lack support down there?

Excuses excuses. I would love to see 10K plus at all Welsh regional games, because it's our domestic league competition.

But the Welsh public, besides the 4-5K who turn up (relatives, most probably) could not be bothered.

£10 a ticket ? Where ? Sign me up !

BoyneRFC wrote:Dont take it out of context.

Not everyone "from the valleys" goes to rugby matches and not everyone from Wales is a poor mouth "from the valleys" on 200 quid a week.

Your attempt to divert from the fact that Welsh club rugby is poorly supported by ushering the excuse that people in the valleys are on 200 quid a week is confusing at best and rather lazy at worst.

There are plenty around Neath, Swansea and Cardiff who can afford a tenner to go and support their local rugby team (region, dont try to twist it, you know what I mean), but they chose not to because they cant be bothered.

THAT is why your teams will never win the HEC. No support. Not cause "people in the valleys" "survive" on 200 a week. Pathetic excuses.

Firstly I have not said Welsh rugby is poorly supported, I have said on this thread and others that rugby is supported in Wales on a monumental level, it's just that there is to much rugby for people to watch in Wales, if you support your club how on earth can you support your region at the same time you cannot cut yourself in half. Secondly, have you ever been to the South Wales valleys ? I have lived here all my life so please do not try and tell me otherwise, the valleys is a very deprived place, in fact it is one of the most deprived place in Europe, I am not lying, go on the internet and find out for yourself, with what little jobs there are here, they all pay the basic minimum wage, and that money goes on rent, food, children. Look, if you ask any of the other Welsh posters on here they will tell you the same, also it does not cost a tenner to go and watch regional rugby, when I buy my ticket I pay anywhere in the circa of twenty quid for one, then there is the travelling costs and any refreshments I buy when I am there, try closer on fifty quid, and that is if I go on my own, if I take my older daughter you can add an extra fifteen to twenty quid to that. I am one of the lucky one's here, I have a small business that ticks over nicely and keeps me and my family in a decent comfort zone, but when you here on the news about parents going without food to feed their children it is not a lie, it happens all the time and it happens here in the valleys to a lot of families. I do not know what it is like in a big city like Dublin, but people surviving on £200 a week is not a PATHETIC EXCUSE and I am deeply offended that you are again making statements about a population that you know absolutley nothing about.

And hang on, how do you know 'they can't be bothered' ?

And why do you even care ?

How many turned up to Leinter and Munster matches in the first 10 years of their existence ?

munkian wrote:And hang on, how do you know 'they can't be bothered' ?

And why do you even care ?

How many turned up to Leinter and Munster matches in the first 10 years of their existence ?

Munkian, can you back me up with how tough it is for most families in the Valley's ? Or am I just immagining it.

AND.... South Africa is a ridiculous comparison to make - it has a population of about 50 million and there is a huge difference in wage between white and black citizens there.

LordDowlais wrote:

munkian wrote:And hang on, how do you know 'they can't be bothered' ?

And why do you even care ?

How many turned up to Leinter and Munster matches in the first 10 years of their existence ?

Munkian, can you back me up with how tough it is for most families in the Valley's ? Or am I just immagining it.

Its not just the 'Valleys' - Newport has 1 in 10 people out of work and a scary amount of shops are closed down in the towncentre. I moved to Bristol 5 years ago as there was not really any decent work avaliable.


I'm not saying low regional attendence is all down to economy but to compare it to somewhere as rich as Dublin is ridiculous. My girlfriend is Irish and her family are Leinster supporters and they are minted.

Spoiler:

I'm pahrked outsoide the RDS roish ?

Add in the fact that the regions are less than 10 years old, people still don't feel represented by them, the feeling of disenfranchisement because the regions were formed as mega clubs firstly, some people just don't like the Pro 12 and rugby isn't the club sport of Wales. It's pretty understandable why the crowds are low.

gowales wrote:Add in the fact that the regions are less than 10 years old, people still don't feel represented by them, the feeling of disenfranchisement because the regions were formed as mega clubs firstly, some people just don't like the Pro 12 and rugby isn't the club sport of Wales. It's pretty understandable why the crowds are low.

I would argue that more people support the clubs in their region than the actual region itself.

My family will all support Wales in International games but apart from that they are all Cardiff City football fans.

I'd say Wales is more about football at club level and Rugby at International level.

munkian wrote:My family will all support Wales in International games but apart from that they are all Cardiff City football fans.

I'd say Wales is more about football at club level and Rugby at International level.

There's only two clubs in South Wales that people really support though and that is Cardiff and Swansea City, if you added up the attendances from all the rugby clubs in the catchment area of those two clubs I bet there would be no difference in the amount of people who support rugby and the people who support football, what you need to take into account is, that when Wales are playing, the clubs do not, so all the people who would usually go to their local club will decent on the Capital, thus it looks as though people are only interested in international rugby in Wales when that is not 100% accurate.

Fair play, once in a while, for no apparent reason, an interesting discussion will break out of nowhere on here.

Casartelli wrote:Fair play, once in a while, for no apparent reason, an interesting discussion will break out of nowhere on here.

I take it you agree then Casartelli ?

He's taking his sparklers and going home. For the record Lord, whilst I agree with some of the economic stuff you've posted, to suggest there are more supporters of club rugby than the regions out there is horse manure.

LordDowlais wrote:

Casartelli wrote:Fair play, once in a while, for no apparent reason, an interesting discussion will break out of nowhere on here.

I take it you agree then Casartelli ?

With which bit? Anyway, it's besides the point. Casartelli doesn't have to agree with something to find the debate stimulating. Very occasionally something will be a refreshing change from the usual;

banter ahead of Saturday thread
I know it's been 10 years but we'll be fine 'when the youngsters come through'
we're rebuilding
with a new front five and a playmaker in midfield with soft hands and a cultured left foot we'd be a match for anyone on our day
i know we're named after the town and play all our home games in that town, but we're still a 'region'

blah blah.

That's the point Casartelli was making.

Stone Motif wrote:He's taking his sparklers and going home. For the record Lord, whilst I agree with some of the economic stuff you've posted, to suggest there are more supporters of club rugby than the regions out there is horse manure.

Just to point out a factual error of yours Stone (again) - ScarletSpiderman started the Guy 'Forkes'/fireworks thing. Not Casartelli.

o.k

Stone Motif wrote:He's taking his sparklers and going home. For the record Lord, whilst I agree with some of the economic stuff you've posted, to suggest there are more supporters of club rugby than the regions out there is horse manure.

I did not say that there were more rugby supporters than football though did I. I said that there was not much in it.

Casartelli wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:

Casartelli wrote:Fair play, once in a while, for no apparent reason, an interesting discussion will break out of nowhere on here.

I take it you agree then Casartelli ?

With which bit? Anyway, it's besides the point. Casartelli doesn't have to agree with something to find the debate stimulating. Very occasionally something will be a refreshing change from the usual;

banter ahead of Saturday thread
I know it's been 10 years but we'll be fine 'when the youngsters come through'
we're rebuilding
with a new front five and a playmaker in midfield with soft hands and a cultured left foot we'd be a match for anyone on our day
i know we're named after the town and play all our home games in that town, but we're still a 'region'

blah blah.

That's the point Casartelli was making.

A very noble point it is too. But I'm afraid you're very new to this forum, or you're suffering from amnesia, if you think that talk of Welsh wages and proletariat loyalties to either club or region, football or rugby, region or Nation, bums on seats or lack thereof... is either a new or a novel topic. It's been around, and around and around as often as the rugby seasons themselves.

Casartelli wrote:
Just to point out a factual error of yours Stone (again) - ScarletSpiderman started the Guy 'Forkes'/fireworks thing. Not Casartelli.

Yes and then Casartelli started on about the girl guides. Creepy...

Stone Motif wrote:

Casartelli wrote:
Just to point out a factual error of yours Stone (again) - ScarletSpiderman started the Guy 'Forkes'/fireworks thing. Not Casartelli.

Yes and then Casartelli started on about the girl guides. Creepy...

That was HIM, you libelous maniac!

"Cas - really mate you need to let that one drop. When applying for the season ticket they need to apply for the ones they want 'free' (or half price if you were a good mate), so they would know. These are professional businesses and not a bunch of girl guides organising a firework display, they know what htey need to do."

My fixation is with Sean Holley. Which, I concede, is also creepy, but at least doesn't concern children.

This place is getting more like Planet Rugby every day. Just better modded.

Casartelli wrote:

Stone Motif wrote:

Casartelli wrote:
Just to point out a factual error of yours Stone (again) - ScarletSpiderman started the Guy 'Forkes'/fireworks thing. Not Casartelli.

Yes and then Casartelli started on about the girl guides. Creepy...

That was HIM, you libelous maniac!

"Cas - really mate you need to let that one drop. When applying for the season ticket they need to apply for the ones they want 'free' (or half price if you were a good mate), so they would know. These are professional businesses and not a bunch of girl guides organising a firework display, they know what htey need to do."

My fixation is with Sean Holley. Which, I concede, is also creepy, but at least doesn't concern children.

See how annoying it is when people just make up reality as they go along? That's why your stock 'state of the nation' address is as boring as it is absurd even at the 50,000th time of posting it.

There are some poor excuses on here as to why the crowds are poor at Welsh regional clubs, we know the answer i.e., few in the valleys will bother to travel to support a "towny's" club that they have no connection with hence watch their local team every other Saturday at a much lower price. I suspect the standard of rugby will go up in the premiership with many of the regional players being released from the regions (super clubs) so the situation may get worse in years to come.

Full of speculating and hot air Alun. No wonder you're on board with the cloud cuckoo land (sorry Valleys rugby) idea.

I'd like to point out most weeks unless I do some serious overtime I earn £200. I go to every home Ulster match and a number of the away derbies as well as the occasional away match in wales, Scotland or Heineken matches in France and England. I do not however go out to clubs etc so much so for me I guess this is where I get my fun. Well depends on Ulsters mood how fun it is lol

neilthom7

I think you had better consider paying some bills and giving the rugby a rest for a while, otherwise the lights are going off in your house!

thebluesmancometh my bills are all paid thank you i have a budget which i plan and stick too i am in a perfectly healthy financial position. What I am saying is it can be done.

LordDowlais wrote:

munkian wrote:My family will all support Wales in International games but apart from that they are all Cardiff City football fans.

I'd say Wales is more about football at club level and Rugby at International level.

There's only two clubs in South Wales that people really support though and that is Cardiff and Swansea City, if you added up the attendances from all the rugby clubs in the catchment area of those two clubs I bet there would be no difference in the amount of people who support rugby and the people who support football, what you need to take into account is, that when Wales are playing, the clubs do not, so all the people who would usually go to their local club will decent on the Capital, thus it looks as though people are only interested in international rugby in Wales when that is not 100% accurate.

Lord Dowlais, Wales has had more football supporters (except for Wales internationals) for as long as I can remember (early/mid 90s) and at one point the Wales football team had more support than the rugby team, and that was when Cardiff/Swansea/Wrexham were in the League 1 and 2 (or 2 and 3 before the Championship). Most football supporters in Wales support Man U or other Premiership teams, with a few Rangers and Celtic fans around as well - indeed I know Arsenal runs at least 3 supporters buses from Wales each game, and I'd hazard their one of the least supported top 10 prem teams in Wales.

There's a lot more football fans than club rugby fans - you only need to walk past a pub on a Sat to see it crammed with punters watching the football, while when the rugby is on, it's most 10 or 20 hardcore supporters.

I also can't see the couple of hundred fans who turn up to watch their local Prem/Div 1 side (or which there's 36 in South/Mid Wales) are going to make a huge difference (even if all of them wanted to watch the regions at the same time), especially as the regions generally play at a different time.

I don't know about the Valleys but I think the average person in Wales CAN afford £200 a year for a season ticket. They just choose not too either spending the 200 notes on a months worth of weekends out or a new tattoo. This is the reality I've witnessed first hand.
With my team the Ospreys, it was general apathy and pish poor performances why attendances stalled. Now, a change of staff, a more exciting brand of rugby and a excellant season ticket offer. Attendances should...should be up. Despite the plastic fan some will label our crowds, its bums on seats then maybe bringing in a new generation of st going fans.

Btw...The scouts own the guides when it comes to pyrotechnics.....own them.

BoyneRFC wrote:Dont take it out of context.

Not everyone "from the valleys" goes to rugby matches and not everyone from Wales is a poor mouth "from the valleys" on 200 quid a week.

Your attempt to divert from the fact that Welsh club rugby is poorly supported by ushering the excuse that people in the valleys are on 200 quid a week is confusing at best and rather lazy at worst.
There are plenty around Neath, Swansea and Cardiff who can afford a tenner to go and support their local rugby team (region, dont try to twist it, you know what I mean), but they chose not to because they cant be bothered.

THAT is why your teams will never win the HEC. No support. Not cause "people in the valleys" "survive" on 200 a week. Pathetic excuses.

Boyne your right, some people are from really rural west wales as well. The three counties the Scarlets represent are very rural, we don't have a single mile of motorway at all in any of them. The public transport links are dire at best. It takes me longer to travel to Parc Y Scarlets from my house (which is in the region) than it would to get to PYS from Cardiff (which is further distance). There are a heap of people struggling living on the breadline here too.